+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1

    DIY PGMFI Diagnostics - Code 9 CYP

    Disclaimer: The following is provided as a GUIDE ONLY, and neither myself nor Ozhonda take any responsibility for the outcomes of someone else doing the following. You follow these steps at your own risk!


    No part of this DIY is to be reproduced with out acknowledgment of the site and author it came from, ie me and ozhonda.com. Do not rip parts off and claim them as your own.




    CYP Sensor "Cylinder Position". Also known as CMP. The CYP sensor is commonly located on the side of the head, inside the Distributor. Not to be confused with the CKP or TDC sensor that is also located in the distributor, or in its own housing driven by the exhaust camshaft. The CYP is a magnetic pulse generator type of sensor. The ECU monitors the CYP to determine the cylinder position of #1 cylinder for injector duty and ignition timing trim.
    Bellow is a picture of an CKP CYP TDC sensor in a B16A2 Distributor. The yellow arrow is pointing to the CYP magnetic pickup and the pulsar.






    Aim:

    Diagnose code 9.





    Required:


    Basic Testing

    - Digital Multi Meter
    - Tachometer ( vehicle tacho can be used )
    - paper clip


    Advanced Testing

    - all the above
    - oscilloscope or wave form viewer


    Symptoms

    For a faulty CYP sensor to trigger code 9, you will more than likely get the engine light come on and the car will go into limp mode, Limp mode is a preset fuel and ignition map running on a backup processor in the ECU. Limited to about 3500rpm and a rich mixture to protect the engine the engine will run, but not the best. Common cause for code 9 is a damaged CYP from distributor bearing failure or open circuit in the sensor or wiring back to the ECU.



    Basic Test


    - Perform a Visual inspection and make sure the CYP sensor is Connected, listed for metallic sounds from the distributor. Save yourself allot of time, If you have a very noisy distributor with lots of grinding metallic sounds, replace your distributor.


    CYP Sensor Pin out Picture

    OBDO




    OBDI





    wire side of connector


    ( note, unfortunately TDC sensors come in a variety of different connectors for different types for Honda's. In this DIY, I have just covered the basic all in one distributor. If you have a 4 wire distributor, Legend ect, reply to this thread and Iím sure some one will be able to help. )



    **** Resistance Test **** Set the multi meter to ohms ( 2k scale )


    Unplug the CYP sensor, connect your Red multi meter lead to the CYPP. Connect your Black multi meter lead to the CYPG.


    CYPP

    OBDO = Pin 4
    OBDI = Pin 1
    OBDII = Pin 1


    CYPG

    OBDO = Pin 3
    OBDI = Pin 2
    OBDII = Pin 2

    their are two types of sensors.

    350ohm to 750ohm ( most Honda's are 350ohm to 750ohm)

    or

    700ohm to 1300 ohm


    If your TDC is not with in spec replace it ( or the distributor ). To be safe, consult the workshop manual for the actual specs for you CYP.



    **** Voltage Test ****


    Set your multi meter to AC Volts ( 20v scale )

    Step 1


    Check the CYP sensor for its output Voltage to the ECU, Connect the Black Lead from your multi meter to the chassis for a good ground. Back probe* the CYPP ( Cylinder Position Power) with the Red lead while the sensor is connected.



    OBDO = Pin 4
    OBDI = Pin 1
    OBDII = Pin 1


    KOER* at idle ( 800RPM ) you should get about 0.7vac
    KOER* at 2500RPM you should get about 2vac



    You can also test the CYP signal at the ECU connectors


    OBDO = A10
    OBDI = B11
    OBDIIa = C4
    OBDIIb = C29


    If you do not get a signal, replace the CYP ( distributor )


    **** Frequency Test ****


    Set your multi meter to Hz scale


    Step 1


    Check the CYP sensor for its output frequency to the ECU, Connect the Black Lead from your multi meter to the chassis for a good ground. Back probe* the CYPP ( Cylinder Position Power ) with the Red lead while the sensor is connected.


    OBDO = Pin 4
    OBDI = Pin 1
    OBDII = Pin 1


    KOER* at idle ( 800RPM ) you should get about .015khz
    KOER* at 2500RPM you should get about .021khz


    You can also test the CYP signal at the ECU connectors



    OBDO = A10
    OBDI = B11
    OBDIIa = C4
    OBDIIb = C29



    If you do not get a signal, replace the CYP ( distributor )


    **** Continuity Test ****




    Set your multi meter to continuity. This setting is mostly a picture if a sound .))) when you touch the Red and Black leads together on your meter it should beep.


    STEP 1

    make sure the Ignition is off and unplug the CYP Connector and the ECU Connectors for this test

    Continuity test between CYPP and ECU, Connect your Red multi meter lead on the CYPP, Back probe* the Black multi meter lead on the ECU Pin bellow that suits your car.





    OBDO = A10
    OBDI = B11
    OBDIIa = C4
    OBDIIb = C29




    your multi meter should beep and read short or 000.0ohms. Place the black multi meter lead on a good ground source. You should not get beeping, this is testing for short to ground.



    STEP 2

    make sure the Ignition is off and unplug the CYP Connector and the ECU Connectors for this test


    Continuity test between CYPG and ECU, Connect your Red multi meter lead on the CYPG, Back probe* the Black multi meter lead on the ECU Pin bellow that suits your car.




    OBDO = B12
    OBDI = B12
    OBDIIa = C14
    OBDIIb = C30




    your multi meter should beep and read short or 000.0ohms. Place the black multi meter lead on a good ground source. You should not get beeping, this is testing for short to ground.




    Advanced Test






    You may pass all the above test with no problems at all. Unfortunately this does not mean all is well. You can have a sub code to the code.

    example code 9 -1

    code 9 is TDC

    sub code 1 ( for example, ) is noisy CYP


    You will not get sub codes from the SCS and MIL, you need the HDM or PGMFI Tester from the DLC port.

    So in this advanced test, we are going to test the CYP with an Oscilloscope or Waveform Viewer to look at the signal generated from the CYP close up. The aim is to get a nice clean sine wave with out any glitches or drop outs.

    Common causes of noisy sensors are rebuilt distributors. Once the bearing has failed and the pulsar has gone to town on the magnetic pickup and has damaged the pulsar and pickup assembly. Just changing the bearing in a dizzy rebuild sometimes doesnít cut it. Also cracks in the sensor housing is a bad thing.

    Test Time

    Connect the Black Lead from your waveform viewer to the chassis for a good ground. Back probe* the CYPP ( Top Dead Centre Power) with the Red lead while the sensor is connected.



    OBDO = Pin 4
    OBDI = Pin 1
    OBDII = Pin 1


    KOER, you should get a pattern that looks abit like the pattern in the pic bellow.






    you should not get a pattern with glitches or fuzz in the sine wave like in the pic bellow. if you do replace the sensor/distributor







    * Notes

    KOEO = Key On Engine Off

    KOER = Key On Engine Running

    Back probe the sensor, use a paperclip and push it into the connector then touch/clip your multi meter lead to the paper clip


    Disclaimer: The following is provided as a GUIDE ONLY, and neither myself nor Ozhonda take any responsibility for the outcomes of someone else doing the following. You follow these steps at your own risk!
    Last edited by ECU-MAN; 06-05-2014 at 05:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Newcomer st@sh is an unknown quantity at this point
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    sydney
    Car:
    1992 Accord exi
    Hey mate i have this problem with my 92 accord is there any chance you could post the photos back up or email them

    cheers

    stash

  3. #3
    prelude's got an 8th pin for the obd1 dizzy, do you know what it is?
    because im in the process of doing an obd2 to obd1 dizzy conversion harness and i really need to know if that 8th pin is needed.

  4. #4
    BB2 Preludes have an external Coil,

    the 8th wire is the ICM tigger to the negative side of the coil

  5. #5
    so is the 8 wire require if i got an internal coil?

  6. #6
    no its not required

  7. #7
    bumping this up.

    John i have gotten this , with excessive HEAT ( hot day). Engine is not in limp mode , runs basically fine. But MIL is ON. MIL went OFF when car was stopped , rested and started again.

    Is this just a intermittent issue ? OR should i look at replacing the dizzy anyways....
    DIY , Suspension work and sexeh.

    I do it , so should you !

  8. #8
    could be related to heat, with heat the resistance changes in the reluctor.


    you should measure the resistance of the CYP on a normal day where its working fine at the dizzy end as well as at the ECU end ( with the connectors unplugged from the ECU ) and record your results.

    then do the above when its playing up and compare your results.


    you want to see if the resistance is higher on the hotter day when it faults and also you want to determin if the resistance is comming from the wiring or the reluctor itself.


    if you can get a scope on the CYP to inspect the waveform.


    also look for cracks on the CYP reluctor and metal fragments on or around the pickup. also inspect the tooth on the shaft for any damage.

    and check the gap between the tooth and reluctor.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.3


Terms and Conditions
Ozhonda.com is in no way affiliated with the Honda motor company or Honda Australia in anyway whatsoever.