Just how rare are AP2's?

[soichiro]

I'm in the market for an S2000 and I've been looking on many sites and newspapers, car sales but about 85% of them seem to be AP1's. Just how common are AP2's does anyone have sales figures throughout the years?

My goal of getting a white AP2 seems to be overambitious.

What's the general view on AP1's VS AP2's? How hard is it to make an AP1 into say an AP2 (minus the engine changes). I'm talking mostly the interior/exterior cosmetics and all the small things that amount up.

Cheers

[vyets]

we dont have ap2's
we got the facelift but not the 2.2L engine, so the chassis code is still an ap1.
AP2 tail lights, headlights, front bar, rear bar... all of them are abit hard to get unless your willing to pay.
AP2 Interior bits like center console, cluster, door panels, radio lid, dash, roll hoop speakers, seats. They are all very very hard to get.

[johnshakroo]

theres an ap2 for sale $60 but fuk its worth it 06 model..
shit just as i was going 2 get the link from carsales the car is gone. lol sorry heres a pic but..

[johnshakroo]

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o183/johnshakroo/12352424.jpg

[chicken8]

theres not many 04+ models at all

02+ you might have a better chance

[CONAN]

They are rare but theres a few out there on the market. Also you can still go into a Honda Dealer and buy a brand new S2000, depends on your budget.

[dudeoflife]

finding a white 'AP2' is pretty much close to impossible ... last time i checked your best bet would be .. silver and black .. and i also remember seeing 2 laguna pearl blues ..

if i had to choose another, id choose the blue without a doubt.

[chicken8]

not sure i like that blue

i'd choose nurburgring blue then monte carlo then laguna pearl

[vyets]

There's a white 04 around my area, his always vtec'n around lol
Also seen a white one in the city once they so daym rare

[soichiro]

dam that sucks,

does that mean that all aussie s2k's rev to 9k?

does everything else on the car apart from the engine follow the other markets, im talking about the seats, centre consoles, steering wheels, sound system, tweeters, etc.

i just think the 04+ models looks so much more modern inside and out. Also headrest speakers?

[9large]

Cosmetically, it's all the same. You can change body panels, lights, etc. quite easily. Infact, it's a very common mod to AP1s. There have also been some suspension mods to "tame" the handling over the years, especially from AP1 to AP2. The states (and later Japan) received a 2.2L engine in 2004, as you know. More recently they also received the CR/Type S. Personally, I prefer the 9 grand redline - it's more pure and true to Honda's engine philosophy and its roadster lineage.

Good luck with your search for an decent S2000 though.

[vyets]

anyone know if the aussie 04+ got the vsc?

yeap looks wise excatly the same just no engine, suspension and all that is ap2 just ap1 redline and engine.

[dudeoflife]

im pretty sure VSA was first introduced in MY06 along with drive by wire.

[h17am]

Try to find an 04+ s2000 if you're buying 2nd hand.
The updates in it are worth it.

[soichiro]

yeah I was thinking that an extra 1k redline would be worth giving up a tiny bit more torque.

I know changing the lights and bumpers can be done fairly straight-forward but isin't it harder to do the glass-windowed soft-top and the interior bits like centre console, seats and TWEETERS? How the hell would you do the tweeters? Are the door trims the same?

[9large]

In relation to more torque, just remember, only the US and Japan got the 2.2L, so the question isn't there to ask for Oz-spec models. And if low-end torque is that important to you, the S2000 probably isn't the right car for you. I find the torque is perfectly adequate with the F20C; I rarely need to take it over 5000 in daily driving (in bumper-to-bumper traffic, you'll only be going at snail's pace, no matter how much torque you have). I've had mine for over 5 years now.

From 2002, the S2000 received a glass rear window. You really need to do some more research! :) More info here (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88837):

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88837

[soichiro]

i know that only japan and US got the 2.2L but i was just saying that i'd rather have the 9k redline than the extra torque anyway...never saying that i wanted more torque, my current car is turbo and it's got way more torque than the s2k's that i've tested.:)

however, like you said, it's not really a bother for daily driving especially since vtec is set at a fairly high rpm so you can still rev it up whilst keeping the fuel economy of the regular engine mode. with my current car, (which has stock everything) the boost is noticeable even at 2500rpm which makes the car easier to drive but it cant be turned off or avoided unless u accelerate at car park pace. (ok for peak hour traffic though)

also i know when the glass was introduced but i was asking how difficult it is to put onto a 99-01. i've heard it takes quite a lot of work and honda charges close to 1k for installation. i'm looking at making a 99-01 model into a 04+ model depending on the cost and difficulty but i'm expecting it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a 04+ to start with.

[gambate]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S2000

sales figures near the bottom, some says only 15 were sold in 08

[revolution]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_S2000

sales figures near the bottom, some says only 15 were sold in 08

I bought my white one in Jan '08. Honda asks for $78K on road but some haggling of the sales and you can get the price down quite a bit.

[JAP-S2K]

Not sure but i think '06+ were all fly by wire throttle, these models drive smoother but at a cost of performance. Stand clear of these if you want a screamer. Even though traction control can be switched off, the factory ecu still tampers with throttle control if your being silly.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

the way i see it since the engine is the same just buy an AP1 and convert to AP2. Use the money you saved from buying an AP2 on mods :P

unless you want a fresh car.

[soichiro]

i guess having after having owned a turbo car, i'm a little over hooning. i'd rather have a nice smooth car that can still put out the power when needed.

wouldn't the cost of AP2 parts cost more than the difference in price between a 04 and a 02?

i mean front and rear bumpers about 2k?
front and tail lights i 1.5k?
centre console 600?
radio cover 250?
steering wheel 750?
SEATS i have no idea but i'm going to guess 1.6k?
shift knob 100?
speakers in headrests?
tweeters in doors and new door trims?
there's more things that i'm missing i'm sure...

[soichiro]

I bought my white one in Jan '08. Honda asks for $78K on road but some haggling of the sales and you can get the price down quite a bit.

brand new is completely out of the question for me. can i ask if it's your first s2k and also if you plan to keep the car for long?:p

[JAP-S2K]

For me it's my second S2K. My first was a '00 model i bought stock. I spent a bomb on mods. Unfortunately i parked it into some trees and it was written off. So second time round i was in a similar situation to yourself. Do i buy a newer model '04+ and modify it as money comes along. Or buy a neat older model S2K and buy some mods straight away. I choose to buy an older model as i had mods on mind, and any S2K owner would agree, once you've driven/owned a modified S2K, you can't enjoy a stocker. Maybe even look at buying a slighty modified one, as there isn't much of a price difference between them and a stocker. And most quality japenese aftermarket parts are worth a packet, so you could actually be saving money, rather than spending it later on.

[JAP-S2K]

Also if your interested in updating an AP1 with AP2 bits, you would be quite suprised just how cheap some of the parts are. Just browse forums, and ebay. And do some ringing around.

[dudeoflife]

i checked carsales last night ... and there are 94 s2ks listed for sale around australia!! ... when i was looking for mine there was around only around 60 listed ...

so i guess now is a great time to hunt down a bargain!

[martin]

heres a black ap2 for you http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/HONDA/S2000/details.aspx?R=6710907&sort_type=2&Make=HONDA&__Ns=pCar_Price_Decimal%7c0%7c%7cpCar_PrivateSpeci alFlag_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_ImageCount_Int32%7c1&Model=S2000&__N=4294965322%200%201216%20834%20285%20257%204294 964924&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&__No=60&seot=0&Cr=15&__Nne=20&trecs=82&state_id=0&__sid=11F376884C5B

[Perry]

heres a black ap2 for you http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/honda/s2000/details.aspx?r=6710907&sort_type=2&make=honda&__ns=pcar_price_decimal%7c0%7c%7cpcar_privatespeci alflag_int32%7c1%7c%7cpcar_imagecount_int32%7c1&model=s2000&__n=4294965322%200%201216%20834%20285%20257%204294 964924&state=all%20states&distance=25&silo=1003&__no=60&seot=0&cr=15&__nne=20&trecs=82&state_id=0&__sid=11f376884c5b

2.2l????

[JAP-S2K]

Not is Oz! We'll never see a factory 2.2L

[soichiro]

what aftermarket mods make the most difference? i wasn't sure if there could be that much done do a s2k apart from suspension mods, intake and exhaust.

i dont know if i'd enjoy the modded one more since i haven't tried but i'm after reliability and ride comfort more than performance i guess. If i wanted performance i'd stick to my current car haha even thought it's not convertible. it's actually very similar in ride, handling and power to the s2k in my opinion. It would also be easier to get more performance out of it i think.

basically i'm after the cleanest, lowest km s2k i can find. not silver though since a couple of my friends have that colour already. i'd like to have it looking just like a 04+ both inside and out at the end of the day.

so if you guys reckon a 04+ is cheaper than an 02+AP2mods or 99+AP2mods+glass-widowed roof then i might try and save up a little more. i think the average difference in price between an 04 and a 99/00 is about 10-12k which is less than the cost of parts and fitment i think.

anyone got anything to add to that?
thanks for all your help so far!

[h17am]

Save a little more and buy an 04+.

If you're after looks:
1. An 04+ looks like an 04+, so no messing about required.
2. It is possible to change an earlier model to look like an 04+, but you'll need to source a lot of parts and then get them to fit. Some are straight forward swaps. But some aren't. E.g. the lights.

If you're after performance:
1. An 04+ has tweaks on the suspension to make it easier to drive on the limit.
2. An 01 is quite oversteery at the limit.
3. An 04+ is newer, hence chassis will be in better condition / less flex. Not to mention since it's newer it'll have less wear and tear on everything else. E.g. clutch, brakes, suspension, suspension bushings, piston rings, etc. Sure you can just replace these, but replacing = money anyway. Not to mention time and headaches along the way.
4. If you're going to modify the car extensively, then it's better to stick to pre 06 models without the DBW throttle. The DBW limits your options on a lot of things.
5. The VSA is nice to have on the street, but useless on the track anyway. And no it doesn't "play" around with your throttle if you turned the VSA off.
6. In terms of aftermarket mods, the S2000 has plenty to choose from.
e.g. your reference to "SUSPENSION MODS" include, but not limited to: Coilovers, bushings, front & rear swaybars, front & rear upper & lower control arms, front and rear roll center adjusters, chassis bracings, anti bump steer kits, driveshaft spacers, etc etc etc)

If you're after reliability:
1. An 04+ is newer.

Conclusion:
Buy an 04+.
Then go and mod it to make it to a track monster. Then go to <INSERT NAME OF LOCAL TRACK HERE>.
OR
Buy 20" chromies (e.g. TIS, DUB, etc) and lap <INSERT NAME OF LOCAL HANGOUT SPOT HERE>.

[ludecrs]

what aftermarket mods make the most difference? i wasn't sure if there could be that much done do a s2k apart from suspension mods, intake and exhaust.

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/146255/3330467b.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/turbo/complete.jpg



i dont know if i'd enjoy the modded one more since i haven't tried but i'm after reliability and ride comfort more than performance i guess. If i wanted performance i'd stick to my current car haha even thought it's not convertible. it's actually very similar in ride, handling and power to the s2k in my opinion. It would also be easier to get more performance out of it i think.

If you live in SE QLD / SYD / Vic I'm sure one of the boosted S2000 owners around town would be more than happy to pilot you for a test drive on the feeling of S2K FI.... I could never go back to a stock S2000 after having FI now... Simply said, its just something you have to experience for yourself.


so if you guys reckon a 04+ is cheaper than an 02+AP2mods or 99+AP2mods+glass-widowed roof then i might try and save up a little more. i think the average difference in price between an 04 and a 99/00 is about 10-12k which is less than the cost of parts and fitment i think.

Yes...... & no. It all depends on your wallet, what you're willing to spend, and what you want. I don't want AP2 seats, I think they are ugly, same too goes for the AP2 guage cluster. Right away, I've saved ~$2000. If you're patient, and buy cheap from people willing to post overseas, it works out about the same, but in honesty, I always recommend just buying the AP2 for sake of convenience and perfect fitment.


Save a little more and buy an 04+.

<snip>

1. Agreed.
2. Agreed.

1. If you're modding you're going to toss the OEM suspension anyway.... i mean, you did :p
2. This is one of the things I prefer over the mellowed down AP2.
3. You're worried about chassis flex on a 240hp car with a 5 star crash rating?? If you're playing mods, most of those things mentioned are going to get replaced anyway..
4. Agreed, though most US vendors have extensive DBW applications available now.
5. Couldn't say.
6. Agreed.

1. So your track orientated S2000 is a better reliability option than buys an AP1 with 40000 w/e KM's because its newer? C'mon, there are always exceptions...

Conclusion:
Buy an 04+.

[h17am]

1. If you're modding you're going to toss the OEM suspension anyway.... i mean, you did :p
3. You're worried about chassis flex on a 240hp car with a 5 star crash rating?? If you're playing mods, most of those things mentioned are going to get replaced anyway..
4. Agreed, though most US vendors have extensive DBW applications available now.

1. So your track orientated S2000 is a better reliability option than buys an AP1 with 40000 w/e KM's because its newer? C'mon, there are always exceptions...

Conclusion:
Buy an 04+.

1. No that's not what I meant. What I mean is the suspension geometry has been adjusted. I'm not talking about the shock absorbers themselves.
3. With age the chassis will not be as strong as it used to be. That's what I meant. I'm not talking about the chassis flex due to power. I'm talking about flex due to age. And I mentioned those things because the original poster came across as the sort of person that won't modify it too much.
4. Yes and they are in USA. Most likely those solutions will work, but again, Cost and Headaches. Much easier to stick to local options.
Not to mention other things like return less fuel systems, etc etc. It's simply easier to mod the pre 06 models.

1. No I don't mean MY track oriented S2000 is more reliable. I meant an 04+ will be more reliable than one which is an 01 for example. Simply because it's newer and has less wear and tear.

Once again: BUY AN 04+. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: It will make you :D:D:D...

[soichiro]

that was some great info there, the major thing for me is the looks of the car, for the moment at least.

not sure what you mean about the gauge clusters since i haven't seen them but the seats are two-toned on the 04+ right? or am i thinking even new than that?

by the way i'm in WA...not a whole lot of s2k's around here unfortunately...I would LOVE to ride in a FI s2k but i dont even know if one exists in WA.:(

[soichiro]

wow there's only like 9 AP2's for sale??

haha that reminds me of the actual reason for this thread.

[johnshakroo]

heres a black ap2 for you http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/HONDA/S2000/details.aspx?R=6710907&sort_type=2&Make=HONDA&__Ns=pCar_Price_Decimal%7c0%7c%7cpCar_PrivateSpeci alFlag_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_ImageCount_Int32%7c1&Model=S2000&__N=4294965322%200%201216%20834%20285%20257%204294 964924&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&__No=60&seot=0&Cr=15&__Nne=20&trecs=82&state_id=0&__sid=11F376884C5B


loll sorry buddy thats not happining, coz i bought it n pickn it up saturday.

[johnshakroo]

and its a 2ltr, the bloke didnt no wut he was on about.. and owning an ap2 my advice is spend the extra 10gz, ull see where that extra money is going.

[soichiro]

haha that would have been my pick outta the bunch.

its over my current budget though, so i wouldn't be able to buy it anyway for the time being.

Might have to wait a while before i can get a ap2 then..

[dudeoflife]

get the AP2 yo!! ... there was a time when there were absolutely no AP2s listed for sale.

i was in a similar situation ... get an older MY and mod it aesthetically and performance wise or hold out longer and get a MY06+ 2K.

im glad i waited to get an 'AP2' ... you get looks from the AP1 guys like .. farrk .. wish i had an AP2 lol.

[panda]

my ap2 is up for sale, it's in nz though :P

[soichiro]

i'm going to check out this car soon, anyone know anything about it?

or can anyone see anything that's not right about it?

it's apparently had an aftermarket glass window roof installed as well as genuine front and rear bumpers from honda. also it's just had a bump in the back so the boot and rear bumper will need replacing, any potential problems from any of these things?

http://carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/HONDA/S2000/details.aspx?R=6040618&__Nne=20&Make=HONDA&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCo unt_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&Model=S2000&__N=4294965322&#37;200%20510%204294964924%201216%20834 %20285%20257&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&seot=0&Cr=0&__No=60&trecs=82&state_id=0&__sid=11E95C844BE8

cheers

[soichiro]

my ap2 is up for sale, it's in nz though :P

any pictures? how much might shipping cost from NZ?

[h17am]

Come to Hyperdrive motorsport this saturday 7 February around 11-12.
There'll be at least 2 x S2000s there. One is 02, one is 07.

You can come and chat to us about it if you like.

[ludecrs]

any pictures? how much might shipping cost from NZ?

Cant import it unless its a VGS model.

[drsilliez]

Cant import it unless its a VGS model.

whats VGS?

[soichiro]

Variable Gear Steering if my research is correct.

I thought most cars had this nowadays.

Hmmm might look into importing one...but apart from the increase of depreciation and being turned away from dealers, what are some negatives of getting an import?

[EK4R]

i'm going to check out this car soon, anyone know anything about it?

or can anyone see anything that's not right about it?

it's apparently had an aftermarket glass window roof installed as well as genuine front and rear bumpers from honda. also it's just had a bump in the back so the boot and rear bumper will need replacing, any potential problems from any of these things?

http://carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/HONDA/S2000/details.aspx?R=6040618&__Nne=20&Make=HONDA&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCo unt_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&Model=S2000&__N=4294965322&#37;200%20510%204294964924%201216%20834 %20285%20257&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&seot=0&Cr=0&__No=60&trecs=82&state_id=0&__sid=11E95C844BE8

cheers

i spoke to that guy. its been up for good 3month + month now and i wonder why. could be cos its in WA or could be its sus

btw its 99model they are renowned for their clutch buzz problem

[CONAN]

btw its 99model they are renowned for their clutch buzz problem

Theres nothing wrong with 99 models, their cheap, just as good as their slightly newer counterparts and the clutch buzz from can be fixed by replacing the clutch, as described in other threads.

Damn the above car is nice def worth a look if anyone was on the prowl for an AP1.

[ludecrs]

whats VGS?

Very Gay Steering ;)

[JAP-S2K]

I agree with conan! Seriously if you drove a newer model and an older one, you wouldn't pick the difference, trust me, i've driven plenty of new ones and old ones. I laugh when i hear people tell how the newer models feel completly different to the old ones. Funny how costmetics make people think there driving something different, but the only effective change is a rear caddle(only very slight), so technically it would only be noticable if you drove it really hard on a race track. To all those that disagree, please claim why??? as nobody else worldwide can. I'm not saying '04 are bad, there not, there a great car, it's all cosmetic! Ask any Honda Tech, ask anyone who has tracked both models, good luck spotting any difference till you drive an '06+(with VSA), they seem slower, but there probably no different, as we found no advantage, in any lap times. As a matter of fact if the old models ran the same rim size and tire size as the AP2 models they were fractionly slower and thats with a professional driver, let alone a weekend warrior.

[JAP-S2K]

HA HA! Nice one ludecrs! VGS never made it better, did it?

[h17am]

it would only be noticable if you drove it really hard on a race track. To all those that disagree, please claim why??? as nobody else worldwide can.

I disagree.
Driving a newer model S2000 is very noticable when comparing it with a older model. Apart from the cosmetics you mentioned, you cannot escape the fact that the older S2000s must have more wear and tear. This affects the general enjoyment of the car markedly. Note I said general enjoyment and not its performance, although a lot of things also affect its performance.

My brother has an 01 S2000. A friend of mine has an 02 S2000. I have an 07 S2000.
And some of the things that detracts from the general enjoyment of an older S2000:
1. Roof doesn't latch close as tight causing lots of wind noise at speed.
2. Rattles and squeaks due to loose bolts / fasteners.
3. Clutch judder and vibrations.
4. Clutch plate is worn.
5. Center console compartment is smaller.
6. Door trim pocket is useless.
7. Seat foam sagging.
8. Rear plastic window fogging up to the point you can't see anything out of.
9. Stereo / speakers not as good.
10. Worn / old brake pads.
11. Less power.
12. Worn suspension, suspension bushings.
13. Worn tires.
14. Worn / cracked silicone hoses.
etc etc etc.

As before, all of these things can be modified / replaced. But modifying costs money, time and headaches.


As a matter of fact if the old models ran the same rim size and tire size as the AP2 models they were fractionly slower and thats with a professional driver, let alone a weekend warrior.

BMI did this test and they got a slower lap time with the early model S2000 compared with a new (back then) 2004 model.

The AP1 models were slower than the AP2 only fractionally BECAUSE OF the professional driver. With a weekend warrior that's nowhere near as good, the gap would be even larger IMO...

[ludecrs]

I disagree.
Driving a newer model S2000 is very noticable when comparing it with a older model. Apart from the cosmetics you mentioned, you cannot escape the fact that the older S2000s must have more wear and tear. This affects the general enjoyment of the car markedly. Note I said general enjoyment and not its performance, although a lot of things also affect its performance.

My brother has an 01 S2000. A friend of mine has an 02 S2000. I have an 07 S2000.
And some of the things that detracts from the general enjoyment of an older S2000:
1. Roof doesn't latch close as tight causing lots of wind noise at speed.
2. Rattles and squeaks due to loose bolts / fasteners.
3. Clutch judder and vibrations.
4. Clutch plate is worn.
5. Center console compartment is smaller.
6. Door trim pocket is useless.
7. Seat foam sagging.
8. Rear plastic window fogging up to the point you can't see anything out of.
9. Stereo / speakers not as good.
10. Worn / old brake pads.
11. Less power.
12. Worn suspension, suspension bushings.
13. Worn tires.
14. Worn / cracked silicone hoses.
etc etc etc.


And I could argue that a Ferrari F550 Barchetta has the same issues as the F575 Superamerica, because nearly everything you mentioned is age variable.

[h17am]

well the original poster was asking whether to get an early model s2000 or save more for a newer one...

[andrew84tran]

4 years on and finding a white ap2 stock for a reasonable price is as hard as ever.

[phuongvu88]

a year or so ago, a seller here sold their 05 or 07 for ~$50k
white, very clean, sold very quickly

[andrew84tran]

a year or so ago, a seller here sold their 05 or 07 for ~$50k
white, very clean, sold very quickly

i remember that. i believe it had about 17000km on it, sold for about $52-54k. I've ended up buying an 86 GTS for 40k driveaway so I couldn't justify the price of that s2k. But my dream car is still a white stock ap2, and who knows what I'll do once i do find it.

[Charles_91]

http://carsales.mobi/cars/details/?R=15253280&amp;silo=Stock&amp;Cr=5&amp;vertical=Car

There u go boys

[andrew84tran]

http://carsales.mobi/cars/details/?R=15253280&amp;silo=Stock&amp;Cr=5&amp;vertical=Car

There u go boys

Thanks, got the email alert today too.

[Charles_91]

No worries mate looks pretty clean in photos and its not over priced

[andrew84tran]

That ad was listed last night. Im awake now and its 12pm, tried to call dealership and the ad is gone. I think its already sold O.O

[DreadAngel]

Won't surprise me, its AP2 in GPW...

[andrew84tran]

Probably didn't help that someone posted the ad here too lol

[DreadAngel]

Pretty sure the mobile/email alert people placed pretty much did it lolz