Clutch help

[Uncle George]

Hi, I've posted this on S2ki, got some feed back, and now i'm looking for a local workshop to go to to get the clutch master cylinder reconditioned or replaced. Would any body be able to recommand a store? is Auto Brake Service (ABS) any good?

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Mine is a 2000 AP1, with 68,000km odo. Completely stock.

I'm not if this is an issue at all - because this is the first manual car I own.. and the only S2000.

1. Clutch Paddle feel. When I first bought the car, about 5 months ago, 3000kms ago, the clutch paddle felt smooth during operation, ie depressing the paddle and letting it go.

Recently, the paddle start to feel sticky/bitter. I don't know how to describe it better... Almost the feeling you get when you run your finger over a sqeeky clean plate, you get that gee gee gee stickion, ie not a smooth stroke. (felt something really needs to be greased up.. )

The clutch it self is not sticking, I can shift gear..

2. Clutch engagement point. My clutch engagement point is really high, nearly at the top of the paddle travel. The friction point is when I'm just about to fully release the clutch paddle, I only needed to depress the clutch paddle a little to be able to change gear and to engage gear.

Since I said the engagement point is really high - the amount of slip allowed in relation with the paddle travel is also very limited. Doesn't take much to fully engage and disengage.

The pressure/friction plates seems to grip well, ie not slipping when fully engaged.

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So I'm lost... Is my clutch gone? or is my master cylinder gone? What's wrong with it...

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If clutch is gone, should I go to Honda and buy Honda oem? or get a oem replacement from Exedy? (I don't mind a more durable clutch but then I don't want to spend unnecessary money.

If the master cylinder is worn, get it reconditioned or get it replaced? and what brand/oem?

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From what I have heard, clutch can be really expensive to replace by workshops, would any one able to recommend a good workshop in Melbourne? (Good shop as in good workmanship, responsible and doesn't charge an arm/leg.

I'm pretty handy with tools, and do have a quite a collection of hand tools, thinking to do the job my self, but I don't have specialized clutch alignment tool. Do I need it?

[papa_]

CRS Automotive - mechanic there is a genius with hondas

[Uncle George]

Sound interesting - kinda far though.....

[papa_]

yeh im from essendon, took me like an hour to get there but he knows his sh*t

[Ferrari]

High clutch engagement, is usually sign that the clutch is on its way. With 68000kms on the clock, this is not unusual.

[Uncle George]

oh crap.....

I followed this to resolve the binding/shit feeling on the clutch pedal..

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=370792

Got under the car, err... is that oil on the slave cylinder bolt? or is it brake fluid... Unbolted the slave cylinder and remove the rubber boot, slash... OH SHIT.... the rubber boot was holding about 20~30ml of brake fluid... at this point... my wallet start hurting..... sigh....

1. Looks like the slave cylinder needs rebuild...

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While under the car, had a look at how to take off the clutch/gear box. Oh man... looks like i'll run out of space to drop the gear box..

The car is current on car stands.. and I was planning to use the hydrolic jack to lift the gear box... but I couldn't jack up the car high enough...

How do you guys remove the gear box in a "home styled" workshop?

2. Looks like I'll need to get a shop to fix the clutch for me..

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Since the clutch needs replacing... could someone give me a ball figure how much it is going to cost to replace the fly wheel to a lighter one as well?

[Ferrari]

1800 is the usual charge from Hannys or Top one for an OEM clutch change. Can be as high as 2500 from Honda.

Lightweight Flywheels are generally had for around 6-$700.

[Uncle George]

:eek: oh......

Time to sell the car :wave:

OMG.... that's means my suspension mod money is gone...

Thanks MAD aka Ferrari for the feedback...

[AusS2000]

You can get your clutch rebuilt by Race Brakes for about $600. As you weren't getting slippage your flywheel won't be stressed (inspection will confirm, look for cracks).

So, get a sander on your flywheel and replace the clutch yourself with a rebuilt one.

As you your slave and mastercylinder, have them rehoned and new seals and off you go.

New set up for less than a K.

[ludecrs]

or you can buy replacement slaves for like $300 :p

[Age_S2000]

ZEDZ BRAKE AND CLUTCH can resleve and reseal them to as good as new for 150 - 200 im gettin mine done too as its also leaking

[Uncle George]

Thanks,

I've rang ZEDZ and ABS asking for a ball part figure how much it would cost.

A simple horn and seal would be $80, but if the wall is scatched that will need resleave, which will be $160 around there.

I need the car back together this weekend... so next week it is.

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In the mean time I'll study up on how to drop the gearbox and clutch...
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Thank you all very much for the help.

To be continued...

[Uncle George]

Haven't fixed the master and slave cylinders yet, it's a minor leak... and I need the car this weekend.. BUT I did polish the hell out of the clutch pin, the ball ended pin, such as described in the following link.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=370792

WOW!!! I have never felt the clutch this smooth before!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!

I polished both the cup and the ball point to a mirror surface, using 800grit, 1200grit wet&sand, followed by polishing compound. ie mirror surface.

And then loaded the joint and the slave cylinder bore with wheel bearing grease.

It's soooo smooth.. like... like freshly waxed legs.... LOL

[pilotb777_300]

hmmm sorry to bring up an old thread but I have been having the same problem. Not so much with the Sticky clutch but more to do with the high engagment point. My contact point was so high and u only had to tap the clutch to get it to disengage that I thought for sure its on the way out. Car was still under honda dealer warrenty and they agreed to change the clutch free of charge. Had this done last week and to my amazment the old clutch still had plenty of meat left on it ! There was a few hot spots but thats about it. Anyways honda put in the new clutch and it engages about 3/4 of the way up now. Not as high as b4 but not much lower either. Does anyone know if this high contact point is normal ? or could it be a master cylinder problem ? I cant see any leaks around the cyclinder so I'm thinking this may be just the way the clutch works seeing as its a new clutch and not slipping or anything... Does anyone else have any suggestions on this ?

[Uncle George]

Believe it or not, my car is still running with the same clutch since my last post.

It slips when I dump the clutch, but otherwise it's fine... I think it may just varies from car to car.

[JAP-S2K]

Generally, when your clutch is on it's way out the pedal does get high. 3/4 up still seems alittle high. I wonder if your car has an oem slave. Both Master and Slave cylinders can effect pedal travel. Especially if ones been rebuilt and the other not.
If all other clutch related components are OEM, then it's quite possible that this is your cause.
However if there was something leaking, eg clutch master, you'd have a lower pedal.

[ludecrs]

Its funny, my engagement point is really really high. has been since day 1 of ownership, and thats almost 4yrs ago now.

I know its still an OEM clutch since it still has clutch buzz.

Hoping the new Exedy Hyper Single kit may sort it all out.

[tamay_s2k]

Generally, when your clutch is on it's way out the pedal does get high. 3/4 up still seems alittle high. I wonder if your car has an oem slave. Both Master and Slave cylinders can effect pedal travel. Especially if ones been rebuilt and the other not.
If all other clutch related components are OEM, then it's quite possible that this is your cause.
However if there was something leaking, eg clutch master, you'd have a lower pedal.

spot on
2 months ago i noticed that my cars clutch oil was decreasing and eventually my clutch point dropped very low
took the car 2 mechanics and turns out my clutch master cylinder was leaking and was dripping slowely into my car behind the pedals.
the leaks were so low that it took 5 months for the car 2 run out because it was only a couple of leaks a day.
once i got the master changed everything turned back to normal.

i did something stupid a couple of weeks ago where i rid my clutch very badly wen i was about to launch it at 7k and then relised MY DIFF. and i burned my clutch pretty badly in order 2 stop me from locking the diff and launching it liek a retard...it smelt for 2 days straight but now the smell is gone and is occasionally around.
here is my stupid question
do i need a change now?
because ive got no performance difference that i can notice..only a smell every now and again

[pilotb777_300]

I doubt it. IF the clutch isnt slipping then u got no problems. The smell will linger round for days... Its normal. just give it time and it will disapear. I have never launched my car b4 and NEVER will for 2 reason... 1 I'm getting too old and 2 I cant afford a new diff. I am speaking from personal experience when I was in a mates S2k who proceeded to do a clutch dump at 7K and killed the diff on the spot. cost him a fortune to fix and I refuse to treat my car that way. If you try and save ur diff by sliping the clutch like you did, u may not burn out the friction plate but u may cause hot spots to form on the pressure plate. These hot spots may eventually cause ur clutch to slip. If you must launch I would say ur best bet is to not slip the clutch (much) and rather try and break wheel traction a little early on to relieve the stresses absorbed through the diff. The reason a lot of AWD break trannys and diffs is cause they have so much traction that all the shock and load is absorbed by the drive train when you dump the clutch. I'm new to this Whole S2K so I'm still learning like a lot of other ppl here so feel free to correct anything I've just said.

[JAP-S2K]

If the smell is repeatly return's there's a good chance you've glazed the friction plate. And under hard loads it will slip, ever so slightly. Might need to change it soon.
As for diff's, this seems to be a hot topic amongst young drivers, i'm sure we'll hear plenty more stories of blown diff's.

[lzybum]

reviving the thread,

hey guys

before i replaced my old clutch(oem i assume), the friction point was very high like some of the guys have said here before. it was also slipping so all in all i got my clutch replaced.

with the new clutch in (exedy HD+oem flywheel), first day driving, the friction point was pretty low to the floor (mechanic said that was normal for new clutches). fair enough. that was 2months ago. now the friction point has moved high up and feels like its at the same position as my old clutch. new clutch still feels grippy, no slipping.

what do u guys think the problem is? any solutions?

[pilotb777_300]

I have the same bloody problem only worse ! used to have high engagment point got higher the longer I drived the car in stop start traffic. Would then go back to normal the next day. Honda changed clutch to new OEM about 2 month ago. Problem was semi resolved for a while although the clutch pedal still moved contact point with extended periods of driving, however it didnt go to as high as it used to b4 clutch change. Then yesterday I was on hoddle st for ages stuck in traffic, the contact point got so high that it was engaging almost at the very top. Cam to accelerate on the freeway and the car wouldnt move while the revs climbed up like its in neutral ! obiously the contact point got behond the top limit and the clutch didnt engage anymore maybe ? Am thinking its the slave cyclinder so far.. I dropped off the car at honda this morning and will let u guys know what they say when they call me back. MY money is they will say its perfectly fine cause it only does it under certan conditions which they wont be able to replicate !

[AusS2000]

what do u guys think the problem is? any solutions?

I didn't see that you mentioned a problem.

Your engagement point is high and the clutch is grippy. How is that a problem?

[lzybum]

I didn't see that you mentioned a problem.

Your engagement point is high and the clutch is grippy. How is that a problem?

what i was meant to point out was that my engagement points have moved from high to low then back to high with the new clutch installed. is there a reason why it could have been?

[AusS2000]

Yeah, a new full clutch with a properly working master and slave cylinder with new fluid will have a high engagement. An old worn clutch, leaky master and slave and old hydrated and aerated fluid will have a low engagement.

I assume because you've just had your clutch replaced it went from low engagement to high.

[lzybum]

makes sense if u put it that way!

cheers aus!!