4-2-1 headers, what brand is good at reasonable price??

[Benson]

There shouldnt be a debate between Dave and Toda AU. The fact is Dynodave has built custom headers for numerous customers that has yeild good result down the track, not necessary good dyno figure on the dyno as any1 can jipped dyno 'FIGURES', the real test would be down the 1/4 mile and the MPH it pulls. So respect to Dave. On the other hand, their is nothing wrong with Toda products. With the right tuner who can tune can gain from Toda headers.

Its not only the product that makes a car go quicker but a tuner who understands the product very well, the dynamics of how it work in order to gain the most out of the headers.

Thats one of the reason why we have chosen Dave's header becasue he 'BUILDS' his own headers therefore indicating he knows wats he doing when down to tuning. :thumbsup:

[andiiso]

i been readin this thread all the way from page one, and im also trying to find the best headers to cat back system setup for an EK4, at the moment, i like the idea of Toda headers and cat with a mugen catback exhaust .. and sorry for being noob, but is it possible to fit Mugen B16B (ek9) parts as in the air intake, headers, exhaust cat etc, into the B16A ek4? without having to modify the parts themselves ? because if i can, i would like to have mugen from air intake, headers, all the way to exhaust.

[TODA AU]

i been readin this thread all the way from page one, and im also trying to find the best headers to cat back system setup for an EK4, at the moment, i like the idea of Toda headers and cat with a mugen catback exhaust .. and sorry for being noob, but is it possible to fit Mugen B16B (ek9) parts as in the air intake, headers, exhaust cat etc, into the B16A ek4? without having to modify the parts themselves ? because if i can, i would like to have mugen from air intake, headers, all the way to exhaust.

Yes,
The only issue (small as it may be) will be that the headers will be 7mm lower than usual.
Every part will fit, no problem.

[andiiso]

oh ok, thanks, and what would the downfalls and good things to having the headers 7mm lower then usual be? the air filter, catback and exhaust system fits, its only the headers lower by 7mm? and would i have to swap the AUDM cat out and put a JDM cat into it before i can fit the system? cos my brother had to put a JDM 98 onwards cat into his DC2 before he put his mugen catback n headers etc, he said he did it so that he didnt have to cut the mugen parts down because the AUDM cat is longer then JDM and does anyone know the gains or anything about the full mugen system in the Ek4?

[0098]

i guess downfalls would be scraping them depending on how low your car is, but its only 7mm

[andiiso]

ahhh ok, sorry for asking so much but i done research and havent been able to find out anything, but so far ive found that, i could go either (need some correcting please)

TODA headers (can explain difference between 4-2-1 and 4-1 please? sound, power, gains, mid, top end, low etc), (JDM cat, AUDM cat??? or the TODA cat), mugen catback exhaust (is it twin loop for the b16b .. b16a ?)

OR

mugen headers 4-1 (JDM AUDM cat ???), mugen catback exhaust (again, twin loop?)
this is all for the ek4. any opinions etc and corerctions please ?

[TheSaint]

also want the same info as andiiso but for dc2... please help us

[0098]

4-2-1 is better for midrange 4-1 for top end.
Jdm cat or Audm i guess would pretty much be the same and restrictive, i think there could be a difference in size also.
The cat Toda can supply is High Flow.

[andiiso]

i know for a fact that the AUDM dc2 cat is longer and JDM dc2 cat is smaller and if use JDM cat it will fit the mugen parts onto it perfectly widout any cuttin etc. but i think i know what i will put in, i probably go for the Toda 4-1 and the TODA cat and mugen catback etc, even though my car is not gonna be that low im still scared of the extra 7mm lower on the mugen headers, somethin just mite go wrong, anyway, thanks a lot people, btw im andii and i just recently bought a 95 ek Vtir nice to meet u all and thanks again for the help

[TODA AU]

i know for a fact that the AUDM dc2 cat is longer and JDM dc2 cat is smaller and if use JDM cat it will fit the mugen parts onto it perfectly widout any cuttin etc. but i think i know what i will put in, i probably go for the Toda 4-1 and the TODA cat and mugen catback etc, even though my car is not gonna be that low im still scared of the extra 7mm lower on the mugen headers, somethin just mite go wrong, anyway, thanks a lot people, btw im andii and i just recently bought a 95 ek Vtir nice to meet u all and thanks again for the help

You will need a new cat, the donut flange is larger on JDM exhaust manifolds.
Also cat length is different.
TODA headers are 4~2~1, ground clearence is not an issue.
If your EK4 is stock, you can expect same gains as previous dyno sheet.

[andiiso]

ic, i saw before someone posted that 4-2-1 is more midranged without loss in the top end, and 4-1 is the top end gain, and i have always thought mugen was already mid ranged so was hoping for a combo that gives me a gain in the full rev range and not just top end or mid ranged, but more evenly spread etc. any opinions ? or corrections ? (btw sorry for being noob but i researched alot on buying a eg vti or si for conversion but ended up gettin a ek4 and havent done any previous research watsoever on it so im noob with the things on this car and ive been reading up as much as possible on it already)

[Benson]

If you get the right 4-2-1 u will gain all throughout the whole rev range!

[andiiso]

but in saying the "right 4-2-1" i gone blank, what is the "right" one and what is the "wrong" one ... so far ive read up, xforce is bang for buck, toda is awesome and mugen spoon are fairly decent, and according to my friend who drove the dc5, he had xforce headers spoon N1 exhaust system etc, he was going for full top end power, so xforce is top end bang for buck im guessin, but thats for dc5. so yerr .. if anyone got any opinions on which system combo etc would give me a good full rev range gain on a '95 ek4 (b16a2) please post opinions .. thx heaps once again

[Benson]

The ones that Dave made for us, made power throughout the whole rev range... we gain 5kw midrange and 10kw top end. So it really depends on the design of the 4-2-1.

[TODA AU]

but in saying the "right 4-2-1" i gone blank, what is the "right" one and what is the "wrong" one ... so far ive read up, xforce is bang for buck, toda is awesome and mugen spoon are fairly decent, and according to my friend who drove the dc5, he had xforce headers spoon N1 exhaust system etc, he was going for full top end power, so xforce is top end bang for buck im guessin, but thats for dc5. so yerr .. if anyone got any opinions on which system combo etc would give me a good full rev range gain on a '95 ek4 (b16a2) please post opinions .. thx heaps once again

Unfortunatly your freinds DC5 is not a good example to use as a comparison.
His cat back system is OK (SPOON) albeit a little loud.
However the X-Force header for the DC5 is not.
It is likey your freinds DC5 will make more power using the OEM header.

[andiiso]

yer thought it may not be a good comparison, but he put on every spoon bolt on you can think of, like literally, he said so himself that he got everything he could for it (im talking about not caring about the money part of things, so didnt matter the price, he just got whatever spoon he could get) but couldnt fit the headers and had to use xforce because of the AUDM dc5 has the cat there or something along them lines, but he still got a good 150kw atw out of them parts.

but anyway back onto topic, still any opinions on a good gain full range system for ek4 ? and thanks Benson for the input, and also everyone else who has helped

[barefootbonzai]

if money ain't a thing for you....

If you wanna keep AC - Toda Headers, JDM cat or alternative, catback of your choice, most jap brand ones are similar.

If you don't run AC - Same as above but with Hytech/SMSP/BuddyClub Headers.

[andiiso]

nah nah, money is a thing, its always a thing, but i was just using my friend as the example, btw, by installing the TODA 4-2-1 headers .. it takes out my A/C ??

[Perry]

nah nah, money is a thing, its always a thing, but i was just using my friend as the example, btw, by installing the TODA 4-2-1 headers .. it takes out my A/C ??

With Toda headers your keeping your A/C.

Buddy clubs and hyteck headers you will need to remove your A/c

[andiiso]

oh oh, sorry about that i read wrong, my bad

[0098]

look if you dont want to fork out for toda headers and you dont want xforce headers, then 5zigen ftw.

[arron]

look if you dont want to fork out for toda headers and you dont want xforce headers, then 5zigen ftw.

hey, just a question... you don't need to remove A/C for the 5zigen 4-2-1 right (b-series engine)?

[Perry]

hey, just a question... you don't need to remove A/C for the 5zigen 4-2-1 right (b-series engine)?

correct:thumbsup:

[dc2rrrr]

Yes,
The only issue (small as it may be) will be that the headers will be 7mm lower than usual.
Every part will fit, no problem.

Funny my toda headers bracket behind the sump didnt match up.....

[TODA AU]

Funny my toda headers bracket behind the sump didnt match up.....
That was directly related to you & your hip pocket.
Scratch your head & try & remember...
Yeah, it's funny.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

When we supply the header & the cat, the rear bracket is not an issue.

[dc2rrrr]

Yeah funny. Prob not
What you want extra money to get a set of headers to fit 100%????
Scratch your head.....

[mpd076-chuck]

dc2rrrr, I thought you of all people would know that not all headers, cat's and b-pipes match perfectly. If Adrian suggested one and you decided to go it alone, why compain publicly? You didn't have to buy his cat anyway, just get the dimensions you need. It's just annoying when people publicly complain like this, because when I spoke to Adrian about getting a Toda header, the first thing he said was you need to make sure it will fit with your cat. I'm sure he would have done the same with you...

[dc2rrrr]

The cat had nothing to do with it as I had a jdm cat. Who cares im over it.
Only reason I even posted was because he was baggin Dave and then said toda ones fit perfect yet mine didnt. And for $1400 one would expect it to.
I will shut up now SSSSHHHH

[Benson]

haha 1400? damn thats exxy dude... why not get normal jdm 4-1, they make relatively the same power for like 400 bucks and is a more perfect fit... haha

Yeh dave's headers a elite, worth the money and yeild much more gains. Some people need to go figure cost vs power gains before purchasing there headers.

dc2rrr sounds like you need a new set of headers hahaha.

[todas**t]

haha 1400? damn thats exxy dude... why not get normal jdm 4-1, they make relatively the same power for like 400 bucks and is a more perfect fit... haha

Yeh dave's headers a elite, worth the money and yeild much more gains. Some people need to go figure cost vs power gains before purchasing there headers.

dc2rrr sounds like you need a new set of headers hahaha.

dc2rrr needs a whole new motor........:p

[TODA AU]

The cat had nothing to do with it as I had a jdm cat. Who cares im over it.

Yes you did have a JDM cat. That was my point exactly. You had a 98 Spec JDM cat.
Hence, at your request you have 98 Spec headers to suit & this is precisely why the rear bracket does not align.
You knew this at the time & didn’t have a problem with it.
Normally we supply the 96 Spec header, where rear bracket alignment is not an issue.

Regarding you having a problem with us,
If you had a real problem with your car,
You would have been in contact with us to have it rectified. – Not the case.
Further, you could have also contacted the MVIRA & had a mediator appointed to air your problem & have the issue rectified
Again, this is not the case.
That said, I suggest you aught watch what you say.


haha 1400? damn thats exxy dude... why not get normal jdm 4-1, they make relatively the same power for like 400 bucks and is a more perfect fit... haha
The JDM 4~1 header is the 98 spec header.
The rear bracket does not line up.

[DynoDave]

Very interesting and disappointing thread this one :thumbsup: OzHonda members you have all really shown your true colours yet again.
Regards Dyno Dave

[JDMtoy]

i can feel the love.

[xtercii]

Hey Dave's back on this forum!!

[Lukezen27]

Very interesting and disappointing thread this one :thumbsup: OzHonda members you have all really shown your true colours yet again.
Regards Dyno Dave

Then hopefully you read this :p


Now that Dave’s been doing a bit of research on SOHC VTec’s mes thinks there must be a nice D-series header somewhere in the mix lol
And maybe if where lucky some nice info on SOHC VTec mods and tweaks
Or is he over the whole thing? Hope not
LukeZen

Anything on the SOHC VTec front?

Oh and I just PMed you

LukeZen

[DynoDave]

Then hopefully you read this :p



Anything on the SOHC VTec front?

Oh and I just PMed you

LukeZen
:thumbsup:
Regards Dyno Dave

[DynoDave]

Hey Dave's back on this forum!!
Yeah everyone is asking why I am not here anymore so its time to come back and see whats going on.
Regards Dyno Dave

[locote]

Dave did u get my email????

[DynoDave]

Dave did u get my email????
Yep replying now.
Regards Dyno Dave

[todas**t]

Hey Dave's back on this forum!!


now we got some real technical advice

[DynoDave]

now we got some real technical advice
I will do my best but if a sh*tfight starts I will not get involved as its not the place to do it.
Regards Dyno Dave

[dc2rrrr]

dc2rrr needs a whole new motor........:p

???? How do you figure this???

[superR]

because you a complete and utter ball bag trent.....really i doubt there is anything seriously wrong with your engine.....but i can point one thing out that is not supposed to be in there ..... MY intake manifold! your a bullshit artist who uses peopole to get what you want...... call me when you finally grow some balls and you are in sydney.
(maybe a public dissing will get you ****ing head strait dipshit)

[nigs]

OHHHH SNAP!

^5 sexy time.

[DynoDave]

Trent & James come on guys leave this thread alone with your shi*fight sort it out,outside of this forum site.
Regards Dyno Dave

[superR]

well mr trent (dc2rrrr) wont return my calls and or p.m's.
Ive tried to be very civil about it all but nothing...so i decided to put in the public forum.
I do him a favour by lending it to him so he can go up to queensland and race....and now he dicks me.....everyone beware of trent. He is not reliable nor anyones friend.

[0098]

who is trent ffs

[TheSaint]

kk wer talking about headers here... make a new thread titled... 'trent'

need serious desent info about headers here pls post on topic

[TAKEN]

I think this header thread should remain about headers, everyone knows Trents car makes no power but thats another story.

[superR]

ok,
your 100% right.
my input on headers from what i have seen:
-if you are worried about spending alot of money for a kw gain , go for some 4-2-1 hurricane headers ( i got a 5-7kw gain from them and so did the guy i sold them too i think).the only problem is they look a bit dingey and my mounting bracket snapped.
-If you want the best output from a blot on go the toda's......they are developed through testing rather then cheap copy's and they also look bang on, and we all need a bit of charictor in our engine bay's.

[preludacris]

any body had experience with Fujitsubo 4-2-1 headers?

[todas**t]

ok,
your 100% right.
my input on headers from what i have seen:
-if you are worried about spending alot of money for a kw gain , go for some 4-2-1 hurricane headers ( i got a 5-7kw gain from them and so did the guy i sold them too i think).the only problem is they look a bit dingey and my mounting bracket snapped.
-If you want the best output from a blot on go the toda's......they are developed through testing rather then cheap copy's and they also look bang on, and we all need a bit of charictor in our engine bay's.


i rather gain 7kw on this headers then gain 7kws on **** headers exhurst cams and ecu....

[preludacris]

yeah no shit mate

wats ur point

[todas**t]

yeah no shit mate

wats ur point

my point is that 7kw on the header is good

[Benson]

Whats the most KW ppl have gain from Toda headers?

Like before and after run on the dyno

[dc2rrrr]

I think this header thread should remain about headers, everyone knows Trents car makes no power but thats another story.

???? Made no power!!!!
Now runs just fine thanks to Bel...
But back to headers it all depends on what you want mid range or top end or bang for buck.
Top end go 4-1
Mid range 4-2-1
Bang for buck x-force

Header lengths and collector play quite a roll too as well as obviously the tune

[dc2rrrr]

7kw out of headers alone is pretty banm good really.

[Benson]

???? Made no power!!!!
Now runs just fine thanks to Bel...


Good to hear your car is running right....

As for headers, if u get the right 4-2-1 headers will will make more top end power compare to 4-1. I know mine did, 10kw top end 4-2-1 headers.

[todas**t]

Good to hear your car is running right....

As for headers, if u get the right 4-2-1 headers will will make more top end power compare to 4-1. I know mine did, 10kw top end 4-2-1 headers.

this is where people dont know wat headers work they just go for brand name just for the bling.......

[todas**t]

7kw out of headers alone is pretty banm good really.

tell me about it i know some 1 only gained 5 kw on headers exhurst cams and tunable ecu, made big kw on the at the workshop who worked on the car and they put it on a different dyno made shit power just like a stock car....

[riceball]

tell me about it i know some 1 only gained 5 kw on headers exhurst cams and tunable ecu, made big kw on the at the workshop who worked on the car and they put it on a different dyno made shit power just like a stock car....

Some dynos tend to read lower than others. Other factors could have contributed to it making less power, not just the dyno. :thumbsup:

[todas**t]

Some dynos tend to read lower than others. Other factors could have contributed to it making less power, not just the dyno. :thumbsup:

if u put a stock car on, and a moded car on then u will know the difference and that was done......on the same day

[preludacris]

tell me about it i know some 1 only gained 5 kw on headers exhurst cams and tunable ecu, made big kw on the at the workshop who worked on the car and they put it on a different dyno made shit power just like a stock car....

dude everybody knows when tuning a car, that u focus on the b4 dyno run , and after dyno run - how much power increased, the shape of the curve, and AF ratio. A lot of differnt dyno's will read different power figures.

If his car was tuned on a higher reading dyno, and gained 10kw, and then later went on a different dyno and the peak rating was lower. he Still gained 10kw ...period. You cannot compare differnt dyno readings with each other. only as a general figure, as some will read more accurately than others, the Temperature may be diff etc.

[todas**t]

dude everybody knows when tuning a car, that u focus on the b4 dyno run , and after dyno run - how much power increased, the shape of the curve, and AF ratio. A lot of differnt dyno's will read different power figures.

If his car was tuned on a higher reading dyno, and gained 10kw, and then later went on a different dyno and the peak rating was lower. he Still gained 10kw ...period. You cannot compare differnt dyno readings with each other. only as a general figure, as some will read more accurately than others, the Temperature may be diff etc.


if u put a stock car on, and a moded car on then u will know the difference and that was done......on the same day, stock car pulled 100 i mean dead stock and a moded car pulled 105 that with header exhurst cams and ecu, would u be cut after spending that much and gain a lil....

explain that

[Benson]

tru that ey.... :p

Todas***t does have a point

[Benson]

this is where people dont know wat headers work they just go for brand name just for the bling.......

Ah wells.. some ppl just dont learn...

I guess they are loaded..

[preludacris]

if u put a stock car on, and a moded car on then u will know the difference and that was done......on the same day, stock car pulled 100 i mean dead stock and a moded car pulled 105 that with header exhurst cams and ecu, would u be cut after spending that much and gain a lil....

explain that

yes , u clearly would be cut.

But you sed the same car on differnt dyno's. not differnt cars on the same dyno.

anyways, other factors could come into play aswell, its not all about the peak figure. the modded car could be pulling heaps more in middle revs. but thats another story

[superR]

tell me about it i know some 1 only gained 5 kw on headers exhurst cams and tunable ecu, made big kw on the at the workshop who worked on the car and they put it on a different dyno made shit power just like a stock car....

1.obviously shit cams , shit headders and poor tuning! lol i would be majorly pised if i was the person your talking about!
2.i have come to the conclusion you have no idea baised upon your comments.
3. what makes you the dyno king?

[jdmTYPE R]

this is a headers thread

[todas**t]

1.obviously shit cams , shit headders and poor tuning! lol i would be majorly pised if i was the person your talking about!
2.i have come to the conclusion you have no idea baised upon your comments.
3. what makes you the dyno king?

1 yes a shit tuner
2.get your english teacher to explain it to u
3.coz im todas**t

[sydteg21]

come down guys , like jdmType r said , it is a header tread, stick with the topic

[0098]

people with personal vendettas should shutup, unless proof is provided to backup claims against others.
time to dish out bans

[Benson]

people with personal vendettas should shutup, unless proof is provided to backup claims against others.
time to dish out bans

I think there has been proof already

[DynoDave]

There is so much love in this thread,time to growup guys if you want to start s**t do it in another thread PLEASE and lets just talk headers in this one.
Regards Dyno Dave

[free2d]

How about Toda header vs 5Zigen header on DC5R?

Can comment? Thanks

[DynoDave]

How about Toda header vs 5Zigen header on DC5R?

Can comment? Thanks
Toda as they do the research to make power vs 5Zigen which are just built to fit and carry some bling value.
Regards Dyno Dave

[locote]

What are the new xforce 4-1s like???
any one know what they have changed from V1???

[didz]

So my dc5r i am buying will have a mugen cat back and muffler.
which header + cat u guys recommend? im not looking at spenind more than 1000 for it

[DynoDave]

So my dc5r i am buying will have a mugen cat back and muffler.
which header + cat u guys recommend? im not looking at spenind more than 1000 for it
My advice to you is save somemore and buy a header worthy of fitting to your car not some HAVE TO HAVE FOR $1000 junk,cars like yours need GOOD headers and tuning as it will respond and make the investment worthwhile.
Regards Dyno Dave

[honda_b_blastn]

A nice set of jdm dc5r headers would be a nice little upgrade for a Audm DC5R..OH i have some too...;)

[slowly]

i think 5-zigen is ok , and they are not expensive as toda which costing 1000+++

[didz]

k its not a mugen cat bck, just mugen twin loop muffler~
meh ill prob go xforce 4-2-1 and s2000cat + mugen cat back

[locote]

After a posting this thread ages ago ive decided to go with mugen header..
Second hand one for a good price...

[EG5]

After a posting this thread ages ago ive decided to go with mugen header..
Second hand one for a good price...

It took you nearly 2 years to decide header choices .
Glad you find what you wanted

[fishman]

lmao 2 years to choose headers FTW!

[shebangs]

haha

I hope he doesn't buy any cams soon, we'll all be dead in 80 years and might not be able to help him :(

[kazam]

hahahahaha omg 2 years thats insane, it took me a quarter of that time 2 find a good car, hahaha oh well glad u finally found wat u like, let us no how it goes.






lol 2 years

[locote]

Sorry guys false alarm...
the search goes on!!!!!
Out there somewhere is THE RIGHT HEADER for me..
All good things come to he that waits patiently :)

[locote]

I c that TODA and xforce i tied in my poll...
hurmmm ive been waiting so long for this poll to show me tha way..
now its down to two contenders!!!

[locote]

Edelbrock FTW.
Only american header i included how silly of me

[dudeling7]

anyone heard about the new version of xforce header?

their website shows that they are increasing size primaries dunno if they were like that earlier but should be good, might give them a go.

[locote]

42-63mm...
Looks nice and shiny:)
Been told by many old design was Bang for buck. id say they would have only improved it:)

[xtercii]

I am getting Dave's header, and I am expecting 30kw atw gain:D :D :D

[fatboyz39]

I am getting Dave's header, and I am expecting 30kw atw gain:D :D :D

HAAHHAHAHA your dreaming. You'll get half of 30 kw atw.

[dudeling7]

yeh the old design xforce have served me well, i think im goign to try these ones out, anyone tried them yet?

[locote]

So tempting to give m a go..
specialy at the price they are goin for..

[dudeling7]

yeh lol, think might grab them this week off the trader only 399 thats nice.

now decision is 4-1 or 4-2-1 haha i dunno waht to choose...

i think 4-2-1 for clearance.

[xtercii]

HAAHHAHAHA your dreaming. You'll get half of 30 kw atw.

hahha i know i am dreaming, but i am very keen to see the result and the difference...

[Benson]

hahha i know i am dreaming, but i am very keen to see the result and the difference...
You will definitely feel the difference. Result wise, probably 10-15kws.

[locote]

yeh lol, think might grab them this week off the trader only 399 thats nice.

now decision is 4-1 or 4-2-1 haha i dunno waht to choose...

i think 4-2-1 for clearance.

Stock B18b???
if thats tha case 4-2-1 for shaw dude

[xtercii]

You will definitely feel the difference. Result wise, probably 10-15kws.

that's f ucking maassivee...

[dudeling7]

Stock B18b???
if thats tha case 4-2-1 for shaw dude

hey man i remember u had a gsi, with the 4-2-1 where did u feel the power inrease like rpm wise?

because i got 4-1 now and it starts kicking in around 4000 or 4500 to redline.

got i/h/e but unopened motor

[locote]

ColdFusion is using my header now...
Yeah felt a difference specialy mid range...

[barefootbonzai]

locote i think it's time you give up and start thinking about buying a house or something. Not much time left you know.

[locote]

Almost there buddy..
Need a fairly big deposit these days sp here in perth:(..
Already got 1 with gf looking to buy our 2nd one next year..
Thanks for your consern...
I can feel the love in this forum. Its good when fellow members offer GOOD advice...

unlike this post based on "LOOKS"

Originaly posted by VT3C
"the mugen 4-2-1 header is their 'Gymkhana' header - is best for low down and mid-range gains. the mugen 4-1 is best for top-end gains. How does this compare to other headers ? well TODA is common however it apparently has the highest gains of any header but in my opinion it's boring and looks crap after 6 months when it tarnishes. BC header ? well i've never seen one in person but IMO if same price etc u better to go for the mugen header."

[kazam]

locote i think it's time you give up and start thinking about buying a house or something. Not much time left you know.

hahahahahahahahaha owned

[JamB]

whops

[Mr_Dc2aRgh]

Are the Apexi GT spec 4 2 1 headers any good?
Deciding to get either that or a 5zigen 4 2 1 header but not sure what to choose.

[didz]

Unfortunatly your freinds DC5 is not a good example to use as a comparison.
His cat back system is OK (SPOON) albeit a little loud.
However the X-Force header for the DC5 is not.
It is likey your freinds DC5 will make more power using the OEM header.

you say x-force for dc5 is crap.. what about the dc5R??
there is a lot of recommendations for dc2's and d series engines.. not a lot for k series that i can see on this thread.

I dont want to spend a large amount of money on the header as i dont have any proof of which brands are better and how much they are better (on a dc5R). Yes its obvious that some are better than others but for this reason i cant justify spending 1500-2000 on a toda or spoon setup vs 700-1200 on 5 zigen or something else. I currently have a genuine mugen twinloop muffler only and that is the only mod i have on my dc5r.

Some help would be appreciated.

[EG5]

Are the Apexi GT spec 4 2 1 headers any good?
Deciding to get either that or a 5zigen 4 2 1 header but not sure what to choose.

Apexi GT spec header are so old , is this the twister collector style ?
If thats what you mean , its a discontinue items from late 90's

[didz]

so does anyone know how buddyclub header compares to the toda one on a dc5r?

[TODA AU]

I dont want to spend a large amount of money on the header as i dont have any proof of which brands are better and how much they are better (on a dc5R). Yes its obvious that some are better than others but for this reason i cant justify spending 1500-2000 on a toda or spoon setup vs 700-1200 on 5 zigen or something else. I currently have a genuine mugen twinloop muffler only and that is the only mod i have on my dc5r.

If you can't justify the expense of header that work,
You better off not buying a header at all.

[TODA AU]

so does anyone know how buddyclub header compares to the toda one on a dc5r?
See above post.

[kazam]

for gains in low revs 2000-5000. 4-2-1 headers are the best right? D16Y1 btw.

[didz]

If you can't justify the expense of header that work,
You better off not buying a header at all.

as i said, i cant justify it because No-One has made an objective comparison. everyone just says "toda is best" or "dont bother about toda because x-force is good" What i am asking for is the comparisons between 2 "high end" brands ie: toda and spoon, and the "low end" brands ie:x-force - 5 zigen.
the dyno sheets u provided earlier (link to another forum) were a good comparison however from my understanding it was only for a dc2R. I am looking for a set for a dc5r which is justifiable against the cost. If a $600 header will do the same job as a $1800 header then it would just come down to branding.

Could you please answer my previous question as well Toda?

"you say x-force for dc5 is crap.. what about the dc5R??
there is a lot of recommendations for dc2's and d series engines.. not a lot for k series that i can see on this thread."

[didz]

You get what you pay for as simple as that.
There is no way a cheap header will do the same job as expensive header.
Research and development cost is not cheap now days.

Ive seen X force header for dc5R , pretty rough quality , some of the bends looks pretty bad too.

I understand that. i am just asking if anyone has real experience between using both on a dc5R. I am also asking for a "decent" set for a dc5R. let me clarify, I am not a full on track racer, i like cruising on the street. that being said i still want good power gains from the mods i buy.
I dont think i want to buy xforce anyway because people say they sound different and others say they arent good at all. I understand getting what u pay for. but there is always a limit where it just gets to the point where u have to spend ridiculous amounts of money to get to certain point.

eg: fwd NA car moving from a high 12's to a 10 sec (assuming it is a 14-15 sec stock). the amount of money you need to spend is phenominal in comparison to getting it to high 12's from 14-15.

So does anyone have a comparison between buddyclub and toda?

[EG5]

as i said, i cant justify it because No-One has made an objective comparison. everyone just says "toda is best" or "dont bother about toda because x-force is good" What i am asking for is the comparisons between 2 "high end" brands ie: toda and spoon, and the "low end" brands ie:x-force - 5 zigen.
the dyno sheets u provided earlier (link to another forum) were a good comparison however from my understanding it was only for a dc2R. I am looking for a set for a dc5r which is justifiable against the cost. If a $600 header will do the same job as a $1800 header then it would just come down to branding.

Could you please answer my previous question as well Toda?

"you say x-force for dc5 is crap.. what about the dc5R??
there is a lot of recommendations for dc2's and d series engines.. not a lot for k series that i can see on this thread."

You get what you pay for as simple as that.
There is no way a cheap header will do the same job as expensive header.
Research and development cost is not cheap now days.

Ive seen X force header for dc5R , pretty rough quality , some of the bends looks pretty bad too.

[TODA AU]

"you say x-force for dc5 is crap.. what about the dc5R??
there is a lot of recommendations for dc2's and d series engines.. not a lot for k series that i can see on this thread."

If you have a DC5 base model, you may see a gain on the dyno, but you won't feel it driving the car.
With a DC5 Type R, you will go backwards.
That's it in a nutshell.

Seriously, if you want cheap, use a std JDM DC5-R header.
99% of the cheap headers out there aren't as good as the JDM OEM.

Sorry it's not what you want to hear, but it's true.

[locote]

Will the DC5r header fit into the new civicR???
Im gona go check it out next weekend at motor show if it impreses me i might consider buying one, just thought id ask if the header will fit..

[didz]

If you have a DC5 base model, you may see a gain on the dyno, but you won't feel it driving the car.
With a DC5 Type R, you will go backwards.
That's it in a nutshell.

Seriously, if you want cheap, use a std JDM DC5-R header.
99% of the cheap headers out there aren't as good as the JDM OEM.

Sorry it's not what you want to hear, but it's true.

I think you may have misunderstood me.
I am not asking for the cheap stuff. i am asking someone to help me justify spending a much larger amount of money. i am asking someone to help me justify it by telling me of personal experience where the person has had both cheap/middle and high end or if they have dyno charts of the various headers (low end, middle and top).

[xtercii]

honestly you won't get a very accurate answer by keep on asking other ppl, the best way is to do your own research and just go buy the one u think it's right for you, test it out and experience it for yourself then you will know exactly if it's good or not. If you don't like it and have the fund, sell it and try another set up, unfortunetely playing with cars is not cheap...

[Luke Accord]

Has anyone got the smsp headers or know anyone that has them?
Cheers.

[vertex_s15]

toda ftw, look at the bends, runners and collector on the toda in comparison to other brands, i dont think u get too much better then them for b-series.

[didz]

the trouble is vertext, there is so much information on these forums on b series and d series. not so much for the k20 :<

[didz]

Spoon Race headers or Toda

[lil_miss_vtec]

What r the thoughts on the s/s ones from ebay??
They r copies of Toda etc.
I put these on my vti-r Civic when I had it but I didnt notice much diffrence just sounded a lil louder...

[dudeling7]

i recently got some MEGAN 4-2-1

they have blueprints of dc headers and most ppl in usa say they are better than them.

i used to have xforce 4-1 and the megans crap all over them, jsut seems like more power everywhere :)

[JasonGilholme]

probably cause of the 421 design.

[dudeling7]

the top end on the 4-2-1 are better then the 4-1's. plus no crappy hissing noise.

[TheSaint]

wer do u get those? how much do they go for?

do megans fit up to audm cat?

[G-Stick]

how about MUGEN 4-2-1? anygood?

[pornstar]

lol no la :P u need a good cai :P

[G-Stick]

nah i dont need a cai.. ill just run straight from the TB... LOL.

[pornstar]

hehe nice, now you would just want a vafc tuned :)

[mikul_ha]

scared to ask (seems like didz got flamed on the same question lol) but im tossing between buddyclub racing spec and toda headers. anyone know the diff? i've had a look at both headers and they have similar bends and pipe sizes. will they perform the same? if so why the price diff?

btw for a k20

[didz]

scared to ask (seems like didz got flamed on the same question lol) but im tossing between buddyclub racing spec and toda headers. anyone know the diff? i've had a look at both headers and they have similar bends and pipe sizes. will they perform the same? if so why the price diff?

btw for a k20

yeh i know what u mean man. Not enough info on dc5r's with header comparisons. From what i have heard, buddyclub are good and give good gains high and low but many people say toda is better. What is the price difference? im not aware. I am going for spoon race headers most likely for my dc5r.

[preludacris]

anybody give some good feedback on fujitsubo headers ?

[mikul_ha]

i asked my mate the diff between the two headers and basically you get what you pay for. buddyclub is not made in japan anymore where as toda is. where are you looking at getting ur spoon headers? and why have you choosen them?

[didz]

i asked my mate the diff between the two headers and basically you get what you pay for. buddyclub is not made in japan anymore where as toda is. where are you looking at getting ur spoon headers? and why have you choosen them?

I looked at dyno charts of spoon race headers compared to the toda ones and they were very similar in performance (i think spoon looked better).

I am not quite sure on where i am sourcing them first, gonna speak to a few importers that my network of mates know.

[andiiso]

show us some dyno sheets diddy, my friend had xforce headers wid spoon everything else in the exhaust system (remember the white dc5 ?, the one i said was full spoon with 150kw atw?, angelo n all them saw it in city) he didnt put the spoon headers on because it didnt fit to the AUDM cat, so he had to go with xforce as the other option in his mind at the time.

[didz]

just get a spoon cat to go with it!. somewhere in this massive thread is alink to a site with the dyno sheets of like heaps of brands headers.

[shebangs]

What idiot would get Spoon headers and leave cat+catback stock? lol.

[didz]

http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=616

quoted from someone else who posted.

[andiiso]

im not sure how it went but he had spoon catback, n1 and all but didnt have spoon headers for some reason, something about somethin sitting lower or something, maybe i go ask him n put a better explanation, but he knows his stuff about cars, and gets his car done at revzone (old owners ... terry? or something) and also TCG in north melbourne. So ill ask him and give a reply.

[didz]

Kool, man i see that blue "ivetcr" everyhere lately lol u know him yeh?

Spoon or toda for me, whichever comes first when the funds roll in ;)

[andiiso]

hha yer, i know him, he was the one that introduced his friend to buy my brothers dc2r, he got the number plate at the same time as my brother, he wanted IVTEC so bad man haha

[mikul_ha]

thanks for the link didz!

not much difference in the dyno sheet between the spoon and toda...

[andiiso]

what are the price differences though, and also with spoon you gotta buy a spoon cat aswelll is that the same with toda ? if so how much is it all, put together and which one is cheaper ?

[Perry]

since toda and spoon are made from JAPAN you are require to run a jdm cat or a aftermarket cat which everyone tends to do

[EG30]

I'm getting a set of Toda headers for our DC2R in the next month or so, will get it ceramic coated and an aftermarket cat to suit. Most likely to go for the MetalCat with flanges to be welded on by the exhaust shop we use a lot.

Will post some pics once they are installed onto the car.

[fatboyz39]

Heard that "someone" might be comparing all different brand headers very soon. Back to back dyno readings. :P.

[xtercii]

Shit when is that happening? That will be exciting, any donations of particular header needed?

[Benson]

I'm getting a set of Toda headers for our DC2R in the next month or so, will get it ceramic coated and an aftermarket cat to suit. Most likely to go for the MetalCat with flanges to be welded on by the exhaust shop we use a lot.

Will post some pics once they are installed onto the car.

Why not a set of RMD headers since you are gonig to change the CAT. Proven results already with two ITR motors hitting the 13's barrier

[jdmTYPE R]

DTM headers...:thumbsup:

[ZeForce]

SMSP/Hytech :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[z3lda]

xforce ftw

[shebangs]

xforce ftw

Yep, you'll definately win with xforce headers. Aslong as you racing a bunch of ricers.

[dsp26]

I'm getting a set of Toda headers for our DC2R in the next month or so, will get it ceramic coated and an aftermarket cat to suit. Most likely to go for the MetalCat with flanges to be welded on by the exhaust shop we use a lot.

Will post some pics once they are installed onto the car.

if your interested in a high flow metallic cat, lemme know i have a really good source and for a damn decent price brand new... say 1/4 price of catco/metalcat

tested it at the exhaust shop before fitting the catback... gets red hot very quickly on idle... but then again mine was heat wrapped so that may have helped also.... but it's a good sign that it will function good....

[didz]

thanks for the link didz!

not much difference in the dyno sheet between the spoon and toda...
yes i thought the same. There are slightly higher gains on toda but its in the +/- 1kw range. Depending on how much costs are will determine which one i get, Toda new for headers itself is roughly 2grand, not sure on spoon.

[lil_miss_vtec]

Ok, im sure this has been asked b4, but 4 a stock B16a are 4-2-1 better than 4-1????

[dudeling7]

you cant really say what is better a 4-1 or a 4-2-1.

its jsut different power delivery at different points in the rpm range.

i have had both on my teg now and i will go for 4-2-1, but thats becuase i have a b18b non vtec and is a torquier engine thus a 4-2-1 will add extra torque in my powerband.

a powerband of a vtec engine is much higher and thus a 4-1 can come in more usefull for these engines. in saying that though, a high quality 4-2-1 can still be as good as a 4-1.

for example my 4-2-1 now had the same top end as my 4-1's had but they also have a much beefier low/mid range so its overgain was muc better than my 4-1 which was more above 4000rpm before it started showing gains.

so in the end, have a powergoal, and buy the header that suits what you want to achieve down the road so you dont waste money buying the wrong one.

Another option is a Tri Y header, which is supposed to give you gains all over without compromising the high/low for each other, u havn't had much experience with these so mayvbe someone else could talk about it some more.

[lil_miss_vtec]

yeah thats what im afraid of, buying the wrong ones.
my car has 4-1 on it atm but they r off a b18c vtec and I think they r too big for my motor... an exhaust place told me they r a bit too big (I could tell by looking at them) they r larger than the ones I had on my civic b16a.

So for my b16a im thinking another set of 4-1 (designed 4 B16a)
Would this b a smart move?

[dudeling7]

there are plenty of choices, but it depends how much you want to spend really.

you wont go wrong with toda 4-2-1, proven results.

if you dont wanna spend as much you could opt for a 5zigen header.

or cheaper maybe a DC sports, xforce etc

in choosing the layout i think collector size is important to consider. if you are not going to be building your engine any further than I/H/E then stick with a 2.25 collector i reckon.

if aiming for bigger power then 2.5 inch collector.

i got myself megan racing headers from the states, they are pretty cheap headers but heard some good things about them, i used to have xforce and these kill them. megan have the blueprints for DC headers apparently and have improved them further so i would say best bang for buck.

[lil_miss_vtec]

I was thinking xforce... im not looking at spending a great deal atm, down the track I will.
So maybe xforce 4-2-1 with 2.25 colletor?
I just dont want 2 make a mistake and get the wrong ones and be dissapointed :(

[dudeling7]

imo xforce was alright for the price, but i heard a lot of them make loud hissing noises. if you can put up with that.

if u are going with xforce then i would recommend maybe try megan racing from the states. or if you can spend maybe around $500 you could try get some second hand headers like 5zigen off these forums.

[lil_miss_vtec]

hmmm ok - thanks for ur help :)
I might hold off 4 a bit till I can afford something really good rather than spending my $$$ now on lesser quality ones...
:thumbsup: :) :thumbsup:

[IndoStyler]

hey sally...maybe u should come and try my car out...i got 4>1 dc sport headers which are designed for b18c type r motor....got a 60mm pipe exhaust that follows the 2.5inch cat....and all i got is j's racing intake, headers and full exhaust...i'm personally happy with the gain

[lil_miss_vtec]

Really? Hmm yeah but remember.... u r'nt coming on the cruise cuz u will b hungova!! :(
But yeah thats a good idea :D

[IndoStyler]

hmmm, yeah i might just come to meet u guys at P6 at watever time u guys r gonna be there...then i'll just go home after that...dont wanna risk driving all theway to the gong hung ova

[lil_miss_vtec]

cool :)

[TODA AU]

For 4-2-1 headers that are good at a reasonable price...
See here - http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69494
:thumbsup:

[Lowa]

anyone have any info one these AN-R headers?
http://www.an-r.com/bseriesheader.htm

[kazam]

what are peoples thoughts on DTM headers? 4-2-1 to suit D16

[typerdevil]

hey guys, what would suit BuddyClub spec III Pro exhaust system on a DC2R?

Someone told me to get Toda header....but with that combination, not really recommended for street use and X Force 4-2-1 is within my budget....

1. Toda 4-2-1
2. X-Force 4-2-1

and possibly what gains would i get roughly out of these two header systems?

[TODA AU]

hey guys, what would suit BuddyClub spec III Pro exhaust system on a DC2R?

Someone told me to get Toda header....but with that combination, not really recommended for street use and X Force 4-2-1 is within my budget....

1. Toda 4-2-1
2. X-Force 4-2-1

and possibly what gains would i get roughly out of these two header systems?

For a B18C you're better off saving for a better header than a cheapie.
Why, because you'll burn a small hole in your pocket with very little gained.
That is they're not much point in just buying a header for the sake of having one when it hardly out performs the standard manifold.

[tekung89]

4-1 ftw man

[Vti-Arh]

lovefab customised are the best fullstop.
for the h series anyway.

[SeverAMV]

if you're going for xforce 4-2-1 extractors, i'd head towards american ebay first. it will cost you $500 less for stainless steel 4-2-1 headers shipped, plus its the exact same design and material quality. only difference is that xforce ones give you their badge on it.

you might think the quality is worse off and it will shatter if its from ebay, but it hasnt yet for me. i've gone >80 over speed bumps, and the worst that has happened for me was some of my flameproof paint was scraped off and a minor indentation.

[mpk_3]

what about Greddy headers? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GREDDY-4-2-1-STAINLESS-HEADER-94-99-INTEGRA-GSR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33631QQihZ010QQitem Z200031303020QQtcZphoto

[allzilamon]

took off my xforce 4-2-1 and installed my jdm 4-1 itr headers today, surprisingly bottom end felt the same but top end was good shit!
ps. anyone wana buy my xforce headers? LOL

[Vtecyo]

You in Brisbane ? hehe

[CRSEX]

anybody give some good feedback on fujitsubo headers ?
I'm using fujitsubo 4-2-1 in my 90 CRX(b16a1), i like em so much i got Fujitsubo RM01a catback to match and it made a good thing, the best thing!:thumbsup:

[locote]

I started this thread years ago when i 1st got a honda and since i dont drive one anymore, its been answered time to close i think..

[kazam]

we stopped caring about u a long time ago, i think its just the general purpose help for noobs type thread brah

[locote]

I think every question a noob is ever gonna ask is on here....
Make it a sticky so its always there as reference...

Stop having a cry and go play with your vagina or something kazam..

[kazam]

lol wtf where did i have a cry? u said close the thread and i siad its for noobs 2 ask questions in... lol i dont give a fvck, delete the thread 4 all i care

[joyride]

take it easy guys, its only the internet. locote, this is your thread. do you want it locked? i doubt it will be stickied.

[locote]

I BELIEVE it has served its purpose for the past few years...
Defenetly helped me, and many others....
Lot of info here and can always be searched and found i guess...

Lock her up mate...