4-2-1 headers, what brand is good at reasonable price??

[locote]

Go buy a nissan
If your not gonna THEN
Go buy an american header.

[anna1984]

u probably get between 5-10kws at the wheels and depending on what type of material. it will cost mayb a couple hundred bucks

[ONV73C]

after alot of debate about this in the past the best bang for buck 4-2-1 seems to be X-force.

the best 4-2-1 with plenty to $pend is toda.

however, there are many different opinions out there..

[ginganggooly]

smsp mild steel header. check out the dyno plots on honda-tech.

[SINISTR]

What kinda results have ppl had with upgrading their headers to after market 4-2-1 power and price wise.

hey.

I've got some RS*Rs 4-2-1s on my CRX - i can't tell you dyno power difference as I haven't done a before and after comparison but I can tell you that down 400m my top speed improved from 138km/h to 145km/h - so yeah - they are improving something - and mine cost $700 second hand few years ago.

[locote]

ummm. i think i might go for edelbrock 4-2-1 one peice header, they claim a 9kw gain with out tunning

[steve]

ummm. i think i might go for edelbrock 4-2-1 one peice header, they claim a 9kw gain with out tunning

how much? and who are you sourcing them thru?

[locote]

i dont know the price on them yet, sourcing them from A1 high performance. they are in perth, also getting a short runner intake manifold its 600 buks inc GST

[luzinit]

smsp mild steel header. check out the dyno plots on honda-tech.

how much are those headers bro?

[pornstar]

Just something you may want to consider. The NA small 4 cylinder really struggles alot for torque. The header is the best and cheapest place to increase this without opening the engine up, so it might be wise to spend here where it really matters.

Just one mans humble opinion

[egSi]

best bang for buck imo is xforce, but anything is better than MOST stock honda exhaust manifolds.


best header definately for d-series engines in auz.

[locote]

any one heard or Hytech i saw some dyno test on a B16a and power went from stock manifold 138hp to 189hp with the hytech header its unbeliveble!!!! they cost round 1350 US dollars but

[locote]

http://www.tprmag.com/issue/10/10_b16_headers.shtml

HyTech Exhaust - TEST SET 01
At this point, you've already seen the graph on the previous page, and you've probably already done the math. Yes - we're showing a 51.1hp increase. Yes, that's highly unlikely and it made everyone... uncomfortable. We have to note that the HyTech unit is marketed as a "racing" header and will not fit with the power steering and air conditioning compressor intact; these were removed for our testing of the header. Still, our test procedure stayed the same, our test platform stayed the same, and the multiple runs we did were all repeatable to within 3 horsepower of each other, with power curves following the same lines each time. Like the other headers, the HyTech unit increased low-end torque production to such a point as to negate the effects of the "pre-VTEC" dip in the powerband, and it also straightened the graph to make the powerband more linear after that point. Like the other headers, the standard test procedure was followed, with the same extension pipe mounted onto the header. DISCLOSURE: The pipe was provided to us by HyTech as they were concerned about the possibility of a loss of power due to the relatively short runner length from the collector to the header's exhaust gas exit point. Now, one could easily conjecture that the pipe benefited HyTech the most because they designed it, and that would be true. However, that fact doesn't prove that this was an act of collusion; it rather suggests that HyTech might know a little something about header design that we don't know - hence, their polite suggestion that we use the pipe on all the header tests. Given the design of the pipe (essentially a long test pipe or straightpipe) and the fact that the tests were conducted pragmatically and without bias, we wondered if it might be possible that the header wouldn't make as much power if attached to a complete exhaust system. When we brought all of this information and the dyno charts to our peers and a few industry tuners, however, they all had different opinions...

[ginganggooly]

how much are those headers bro?

you are looking at around 1k over here i believe...

[ONV73C]

http://www.tprmag.com/issue/10/10_b16_headers.shtml

Just read the article...

pretty phenomenal increase for the b16a!

[locote]

they didnt run a full exhaust but.
but for the track thats awsome power to have a out of a N/A 1.6

[locote]

i havent being able to find any test figures for the edelbrock header, any 1 found anything to prove their claim if 9 kw gain???

[Lukezen27]

i havent being able to find any test figures for the edelbrock header, any 1 found anything to prove their claim if 9 kw gain???

9 kw gain??? holy cow

lets see some prof :p

[typsy]

Yeh sure the Hytech header gives the best gains, but its not practical for raod use. Its a race header and the power steering and the air conditioning has to be removed to install one of these. It also cancels out the cat. You will seriuosly get fukd over by the cops if they see one of these babies under your bonnet.

[91OOM]

cops probebly wouldn't know what it is, let alone think that the cat is taken out.

[spardikis]

ahh the NZ boy's will remember the good Old DAys of no cat....

[gnx1987]

I got some hitechs (just press bent and mild steel though) for 220. No idea what the power gain (or loss) was but it gives a nice sounding crackle in the note between 2 and a half and 3 and a half and the vtec band sounds sweeter as well.

[z3lda]

hitech is different to hytech.

and no way would hytech header sell for 220. they cost 1k+


Yeh sure the Hytech header gives the best gains, but its not practical for raod use. Its a race header and the power steering and the air conditioning has to be removed to install one of these. It also cancels out the cat. You will seriuosly get fukd over by the cops if they see one of these babies under your bonnet.

you can get normal street use one.

The header are longer then the usual one but IT does not cancel out the cat, you'll just need to relocate it furthar down the car with custom piping.

[z3lda]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/z3lda/typeR-DTRBunit-hytechheaders.jpg

left = ITR SS
midle = hytech

[pgclee]

no headers has a reasonable price...hahaha...all are expensive...hahaha

[z3lda]

its HEADER not HEADERS

[Lukezen27]

its HEADER not HEADERS

lol You tell em z3lda :p

[jdmlvn]

get the mugen one..

it only cost $1500 ONLY

[HRV-80Y]

get the mugen one..

it only cost $1500 ONLY

' it only cost $1500 ONLY '

[locote]

1500 and prob just an extra 3 hp at 9Krpm??
i have no vtec, i want 1 that makes good hp from 4Krpm onward and good torque dowm low and i can only rev to 7K

[Jomsy]

why dont you just get some second hand Type R extractors, there reasonably cheap, and work well, failing that save some more money and get the toda extractors, they have been compared to just about every other header on the market and always come out on top, there is a dyno comparison chart some where?

[locote]

i have typeR header i got it for 130buks, it cost more to fit but owell.
im thinking of buying a jap b18c ive seen some for bought 6gs with the loom and ecu,
ill thrash my b18b for another couple of months and then make the change.
i was also looking at doin a k20 conv but it looks to expencive as there isnt many dc5 front cuts out there and a brand new k20 might cost more than my car!!
b18c7 looks the better value for $$.
ive looked at turboing but i get a bit worried as the motor wasnt designed for a turbo and might work well, but maybe not so well in a years time.
and with the price of fuel turbo will chew to much

[lokchoy]

hows the jdm itr 4-1 header in comparisson to the xforce?
both reponse wise and price wise?

[locote]

not sure?

[sydteg21]

x-force 4-2-1 good for low end, tri-y for high end, they are pretty cheap,i use them on my teg,pretty good

[locote]

edelbrock header 695 landed in perth woo hoo me buy

[locote]

ceramic 4-2-1 1 peice:)

[Boost]

ive got the edelbrock 4-2-1 ceramic coated. Havnt been bothered to get them fited yet...

[locote]

how do they look??
they look like cheap crap or they look descent???
what are the ports like???welds ect??

[Boost]

yeh they dont look too bad... welds are good.. nice long merges with nice decent size piping. Good bends as well... performance wise.. well i cant say as they are still sitting on the floor..

[locote]

sweet im buying a set.
how much u pay for them??

[numlock]

x- force is best bang for your buck!

[locote]

if i was to buy cheap header id get monstaperformance 4-1 header 249 + deliver they prob perform as good as xforce they look identical

[Boost]

i got mine off another member on the forums. 2nd hand but it excellent condition for $275

[locote]

nice price!!!
what have you go on there now?
what size exhaust

[dimsum]

if i was to buy cheap header id get monstaperformance 4-1 header 249 + deliver they prob perform as good as xforce they look identical
where do u buy this from?

[Limbo]

dimsum check the trader's forum

[egSi]

xforce offer good bang for buck value. they r different from the monsterperformace ones.

made in a different country and they do not share the same design

[wicked]

interested to know what sort of gains (kw) am i looking at if im to get xforce headers but keep the standard cat + cat back.
or would i be better off changing the whole exhaust system to make more use of the headers.

[DynoDave]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/z3lda/typeR-DTRBunit-hytechheaders.jpg

left = ITR SS
midle = hytech
Left = JDM ITR
Middle = DTR (now Six Sigma Racing)
Right = Hytech
Regards Dyno Dave

[0098]

Anyone have toda b16b headers or Spoon 4-2-1 headers? With what gains?

[tofu R]

Anyone have toda b16b headers or Spoon 4-2-1 headers? With what gains?

i have the spoon headers..

for just the problem of clearance alone.. i would try to steer clear from these headers.. as they are about 1 inch lower than the stock ones..

but power gains .. i think it is quite good..
cant give u dyno gains ..
but throttle response is greatly bettered..

[Limbo]

I still think the JDM 4-1 are very good all round performer.
Also one of the few with clearance problems for a 4-1

[DynoDave]

I still think the JDM 4-1 are very good all round performer.
Also one of the few with clearance problems for a 4-1
Yes they are a very good header and will service most people's B-series combinations very well.
Regards Dyno Dave

[jun]

i got a stupid question ... wats the different between 4-1 and 4-2-1 header???
i mean the power gain ... is 4-2-1 have better low rpm torque or 4-1 have better high rpm flow ... :confused:

[0098]

from what i gather 4-1 is better for top end power
while 4-2-1 better midrange

[EG5[KRT]]

can somebody vouch for this ??

"from what i gather 4-1 is better for top end power
while 4-2-1 better midrange"

[Lukezen27]

']can somebody vouch for this ??

"from what i gather 4-1 is better for top end power
while 4-2-1 better midrange"

OK from what I've been told by ............ :p

4-2-1 are almost always the best chose :)

4-2-1 good power though the rev range (nice an even)

4-1 might be lacking bottom end but better top end (but not my that much that its worth losing you bottom revs lol

Dave will know for sure??????? :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Plus just how much driving do you do at top end power? lol

Not all engines are equal and have different needs and different header do different thing to em

The noob

LukeZen

[Malenic1981]

I have Xforce 4-1 header on my ITR and I am very happy, nice sound (simular to WRX) and good power gain mid to top range.
It's vtec so I like the idea of going to the red line that is why I like it, and sound of vtec after 6000rpm is sick.

[Lukezen27]

I have Xforce 4-1 header on my ITR and I am very happy, nice sound (simular to WRX) and good power gain mid to top range.
It's vtec so I like the idea of going to the red line that is why I like it, and sound of vtec after 6000rpm is sick.

I when the Xforce 4-2-1 header on my SOHC VTec and I'm happy too...

Though I got em the day after I got my car so I dont know what she's like without em heheh

Sounds nice :thumbsup:

[free2d]

Xforce is OZ made?

Do they make any exhaust system for Euro Accord and V6 Accord?

Thx.

[Malenic1981]

It's OZ made, don't know about euro accord or V6, you shoud ask some of the traders, they should know for shure.

[shebangs]

Anyone "upgraded" from X-Force 4-2-1's to TODA Headers?

I just spent $500 on my intake, and don't want to be a cheap ass on any parts (specially the most important one). I just want to convince my accountant that the $900 difference is worth it :)

Matt

[Lukezen27]

Anyone "upgraded" from X-Force 4-2-1's to TODA Headers?

I just spent $500 on my intake, and don't want to be a cheap ass on any parts (specially the most important one). I just want to convince my accountant that the $900 difference is worth it :)

Matt

TODA Headers will be way better mate without a doubt!!

[Malenic1981]

TODA is better but if $$$$ are not big problem for you why not go spoon or mugen???

[barefootbonzai]

wtf would you get mugen or spoon over toda?

[Malenic1981]

I heard that spoon 4-1 are the best, plus spoon doesn't make sh*t parts, so that is my reason.
I am not being smart but we all know what SPOON an MUGEN are:)

[Lukezen27]

wtf would you get mugen or spoon over toda?

Its hard to say but I think both toda and spoon would be better that mugen

Thats just from what I've read though

I would have got toda if...

1.$$$$
2. They made em for D's :rolleyes:

[sivic]

toda def dont make shit stuff.
IMO from looking at various dyno comparisons over the years their stuff is better bang for buck.
mugen is way too overpriced

[jun]

if u c the toda header, u absolutely love it, they r toooooooooooo nice
dee ~~ get him some of ur toda header picture
i m still planning to get a really good header for my ek4, maxim works or toda????????????? :confused:

[Malenic1981]

I am not saying that toda is shit (that would be very crazy thing to say) I am just saying if $$$$ were not problem for me I would go with spoon or mugen over toda, that's all, I know how toda headers look, thay are nice and they do great job but same is with spoon.

[locote]

TODA all the way.
i got mugen ones atm, only got them cause i got a good deal.
but ill be goin TODA later on this year once some real work goes into my motor!!!

[barefootbonzai]

spoon does not perform as well as toda. toda has been dyno provin time and time again to out shine the likes of spoon and mugen.

and jun i cbf taking any pictures :P

[Malenic1981]

Well I think it all depends on you car set up and what you personaly like, I like my power in high rpm's, that is why I have 4-1 (Xforce) but one day when I have some spare $$$$ I will be getting spoon 4-1.

[Dylanamus]

I've got JUN 4-2-1 and 2.5" exhaust all the way... The power difference is clearly noticeable from stock exhaust. To notice it it's probably 10% better? Throttle response is better and it's faster to wind up too. The car came with these extractors, so I don't know if I would have got JUN if I had a choice, but I don't feel any inclination to change.

[preludacris]

i have xforce header . custom mod to collector from 2 inch to 2.5 inch , and 2.5 inch all the way back with hi flow cat .. pulls harder in mid to top range .... bottom feels smoother (not as jerky and hesitant) im not sure if it has lost or made power down low tho, but throttle response seems a bit better .

its always hard to tell with NA lolz

one thing is , i got a huge buzzing sound now , kinda like a rotary engine or something (obviously not as hardcore , but to give u an idea).....really tinny and metallic. any of you get this after header install ?

[civicCXI]

any1 know how gain you get by installing x-force header into d-series?

[Lukezen27]

any1 know how gain you get by installing x-force header into d-series?

Short answer :p

NO!!

No one's dyno's the x-force on B's or D's that I've seen and I've been look'n coze I have em on my D16Y1

[crx88rb]

any1 know how gain you get by installing x-force header into d-series?

x-force would be the best and easiest to find in the west. you could sourse out other types of headers but would be difficult. otherwise places over here just customise to suit your engine. im going x-force for my d-series. have heard good things from many others. thats my 2c :honda:

[Malenic1981]

I got a nice sound from my xforce, something simular to wrx boxer sound, I did a dyno run and got 139.1hp on wheels (on very low reading dyno)with those headers, cat-back and apexi air intake, I got told if I went to some other dynos in Perth I would get read out of around 150hp.

[locote]

did you do a run before and after at the motorplex????

[EG30]

I'm getting a set of extractors fitted onto my EG Si next week along with 2" press bent system for around $700. We're using the orig cat.

I've sent the extractors to the ceramic coater, which cost me $250. The mild steel extractors are made by Mercury so nothing like X force in terms of quality and their stainless finish, but still much better than the stock header and plenty good enough for this standard D16 engine of mine. My exhaust guy cleaned up the rough bits with a die grinder prior to the ceramic coating.

He does sell X force headers as well and he is impressed with their fit and finish.

Will let you guys know how I go with my budget system in a week or 2 when it's fitted to my car.

[civicCXI]

x-force would be the best and easiest to find in the west. you could sourse out other types of headers but would be difficult. otherwise places over here just customise to suit your engine. im going x-force for my d-series. have heard good things from many others. thats my 2c :honda:

Many others in this forum also say bad things (as in not worth it) about them. Dunno who to trust :confused:


I got a nice sound from my xforce, something simular to wrx boxer sound, I did a dyno run and got 139.1hp on wheels (on very low reading dyno)with those headers, cat-back and apexi air intake, I got told if I went to some other dynos in Perth I would get read out of around 150hp.
Where did you get your xforce from? here in Perth?

Many ppl suggested toda header as the best header, but it's not worth getting it for d-series.

[Malenic1981]

It was on the car when I got it, so wouldn't have idea where previous owner got them, but if you go to Xforce web site you can get their WA dealer phone number and get in contact.

No I did a run when I got the car, did 15s flat, my cat-back is nothing special, I think with better cat (and new tyres) I could go into high 14s.:)

TODA, SPOON ect are the best but that comes with good price tag

[crx88rb]

Many others in this forum also say bad things (as in not worth it) about them. Dunno who to trust :confused:


Where did you get your xforce from? here in Perth?

Many ppl suggested toda header as the best header, but it's not worth getting it for d-series.

nothing wrong with getting headers for D series :P. but for a teg R like you have i would go something more up market if you have the mulla $$$

[Malenic1981]

hehehe I would as well but a bit short on $$$$, for a price of jap brand headers I can do some other mods that will give me more power, maybe after I get few other things done I would go for SPOON.

[kongfu]

If you wanna best one I would recommend you to buy TODA or Spoon.If your budget is low.just buy XFORCE.

[[ricer]]

dont get xforce 4-1
it makes that boxer sounds because its a shit deisgned header

if u have that on ur ITR ur a dipshit :D

[Malenic1981]

I do have it on my ITR (it was there when I got the car), but for me it's performing good, I did dyno (got good result) went to few tuning shops in Perth to ask if xforce is any good and all of them said it was ok, not as good as TODA or SPOON but better than standard, boxer sound is very good I love it, when I hit vtec it's just sick.
I had few people asking me if I turbocharged my car, so sound is very good and very different to all others.
One day when I have spare $$$$ I will go for Spoon 4-1 but until that day comes I'm happy with xforce.

[locote]

maybe you have the intake whisle some intake manis make....
a header isnt goin to make your motor sound like its turbo.
have u got a SRI???

[Malenic1981]

SRI-short ram intake, yes apexi

[crx88rb]

yes i must say it does sound quite good and similar to a small turbo set up. but i think the boxer noise would be your SRI and not the xforce headers

[locote]

ok,
i got a SRI and belive me my car sounds 100% like a HONDA and nothing else.

[Malenic1981]

I got told by people from Xspeed and Garage R (and some people here on oz honda) that it comes from headers.

[locote]

Yes its been said in many threads that xforce 4-1 header gives the B's a boxer sound.

[shebangs]

Yes its been said in many threads that xforce 4-1 header gives the B's a boxer sound.
What about the x-force 4-2-1's?

[Lukezen27]

What about the x-force 4-2-1's?

My x-force 4-2-1's sound grate :p

[civicCXI]

What's edelbrock? nver heard about it before

[locote]

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/sport_compact/index.html

[del501]

I just fitted 5Zigen 4-2-1 headers $700 FROM edw-R, VERY NICE headers for the price ;)

[Malenic1981]

Does 5Zigen make 4-1?

[del501]

Does 5Zigen make 4-1?
not to sure if 5Zigen make 4-1 , but these 5Zigen 4-2-1 headers on dc2r should gain around 10kw @ wheels :thumbsup:

[Malenic1981]

10KW@wheels, that's a lot, is it dyno proven???

[del501]

the header are great to i have a set that i brought from edw-r and put on my 99 itr and gain 10 kw on my car

Sorry my mistake for syain @ wheels. this guy won Dyno N/A at autosalon

[Malenic1981]

that's ok

[ginganggooly]

considering that i lost 25kw at the wheels (shootout mode) by going from a dynodave header to a stock itr header, i think a 10kw gain isn't totally out of the question...

[Lukezen27]

considering that i lost 25kw at the wheels (shootout mode) by going from a dynodave header to a stock itr header, i think a 10kw gain isn't totally out of the question...

We'd all love to have a set of dynodave's headers but we don't all have the founds :o

Not matter how good Dave's headers are 25K lost sounds a bit weird?

Nothing ells a miss?

If I could get 25K just by installing Dave's headers you'd be sure I'd save my little hard out :p

[ginganggooly]

We'd all love to have a set of dynodave's headers but we don't all have the founds :o

Not matter how good Dave's headers are 25K lost sounds a bit weird?

Nothing ells a miss?

If I could get 25K just by installing Dave's headers you'd be sure I'd save my little hard out :p

hehe, very clever. yeah, there is a little more to the story than i let out ;)
i ran 115kw at the wheels on a map optimised for the dynodave header, then with the same map, i ran 91kw at the wheels after bolting up the stock dc2r header. The header threw my a:f curve way off though, so with a re-tune, we'd probably have pulled back another 15kw. Still, that leaves a quite a power deficit.

[Lukezen27]

hehe, very clever. yeah, there is a little more to the story than i let out ;)
i ran 115kw at the wheels on a map optimised for the dynodave header, then with the same map, i ran 91kw at the wheels after bolting up the stock dc2r header. The header threw my a:f curve way off though, so with a re-tune, we'd probably have pulled back another 15kw. Still, that leaves a quite a power deficit.

lol

that sounds better :)

Sounds like nice gains though so why did you take off Dave's header then?

[ginganggooly]

dave built it as a development model, after testing it out, he felt there were some areas for improvement... so now he's making a new design.

[Malenic1981]

I don't know but 10KW@wheels is a lot, maybe it's high reading dyno???

[Lukezen27]

I don't know but 10KW@wheels is a lot, maybe it's high reading dyno???

Im sure the programeable ECU had a lot to do with it :p

[ginganggooly]

from what i've seen, dyno dynamics shootout mode is pretty darn consistant... plus, the fact that the car pulled 115kw and backed it up with a 14.39@96.24 gives the dyno readout a bit of credibility. so- 10kw loss or gain on that dyno sounds pretty believable to me.

[Malenic1981]

Don't get me wrong man but I just think that gain of 10KW@wheels just for headers is a bit too much, but that's just my opinion, I could be very wrong:)

[ginganggooly]

well, we're talking a header, plus a map to suit it...

[crx88rb]

yeh 10kw JUST for a headers MAYBE a bit much to believe . BUT with a ECU MAP to suit i would say YES :)

[Malenic1981]

ECU MAP sorry i missed that part, reading to fast, 10KW is possible, my bad...

[EG30]

Just got my budget Mercury 4-2-1 headers from the ceramic coater today, will be fitting it to my car later this week with a cat back 2" press bend straight thru system on my EG Si.

http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img79620kb.jpg

[crx88rb]

sweet mate look great :)

[Malenic1981]

looks good, how much did it cost you, all up with coating??

[locote]

it looks like a AUDM ITR header.

[locote]

looks like TODAs are ahead....
What sort of gains have ppl with them had??

[EG30]

looks good, how much did it cost you, all up with coating??


Just got the setup installed today at Exhaust World, cost me $730 for the exhaust upgrade (extractors+cat back press steel 2"+middle resonator straight thru & rear muffler+2.5" s/steel tip) and $250 for the ceramic coating so just under $1K all up.

Pulls a lot better esp at the mid to top end, hits the rev limiter with much less effort than before. A lot more responsive at high gears/lower revs situations.

My Si with this setup still lags behind a std Accord Euro Man from a standing start in 1st and 2nd gear, but line ball in 3rd gear and pulls ahead by 4th gear.

[revNhevN]

i got secret sport headers. they look good. but i doubt i gain much from them.

[Weq]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/AlexanderVD/100605-Opie/IMG_2590_w.jpg

Just a bit of an eye opener for those who think JDM = be all and end all.

note: the crack to the left.

[locote]

what crack???

[Malenic1981]

he ment to the right, where the weld is, you can see a little crack, would not expect that from any big name brands

[TODA AU]

That crack is a result of incorect fitment.
The support bracket at the rear need to be used.

Other reasons for header cracking is exessive tension in exhaust system.
If the system does not simply hang in place & must be forced one way or another to assemble, cracks will result somewhere, not always in the header, but this is a place that cracks can occur with poor fitment.
It is not a problem with the product, more the user.

[Weq]

hey im just saying.

Some people think they are invincible cause they are JDM blingin. Id imagine half the cracked headers out there are a result of incorrect application, not incorrect build quality. Just a myth id highlight.

[Malenic1981]

Ok, I was starting to think that it's wasn't original toda product, heared there is lots of copies around with toda, spoon ect writing on them.

[ginganggooly]

I'd be inclined to say that people should take a look at what headers the cars that are running the numbers are using. I keep seeing dtr, smsp, an-r and in oz, dyno dave...
It's rare to see a 'jdm' header on the cars in the sub-12's.

[crx88rb]

so i have been hunting for some over here in Perth and there isnt much to get. the best so far for me is x-force and have heard great things. only thing is they only make D series headers for SOHC. they have a B series for a DOHC but of course its a b series and you would think it wouldn't fit on a D series engine. now i asked the x-force distributors over here and also the exhaust fitter who will be doing it for me and both seem to say it will fit but there may be some difference in the bolts positions and the size of the headers from the block to the cat. apart from being made for a B series is there any other reason why i cant get there headers. cause this is all i got

[EG30]

so i have been hunting for some over here in Perth and there isnt much to get. the best so far for me is x-force and have heard great things. only thing is they only make D series headers for SOHC. they have a B series for a DOHC but of course its a b series and you would think it wouldn't fit on a D series engine. now i asked the x-force distributors over here and also the exhaust fitter who will be doing it for me and both seem to say it will fit but there may be some difference in the bolts positions and the size of the headers from the block to the cat. apart from being made for a B series is there any other reason why i cant get there headers. cause this is all i got


I really can't see why any competent exhaust fitter won't be able to modify it to suit if there is indeed slight differences in the bolt patterns.

Give Pete at Exhaust World in newcastle st, perth a call and he'll sort it all out for you. I got mine headers and full 2" system done by him and I'm v v happy. He sells Xforce also and his prices are one of the best in town.

[sivic]

why not use the SOHC D series headers? they bolt up the same and thats all that matters.
its not like the headers are specifically for SOHC d's and not DOHC d's.
i think the engine series they are designed for might be little more important lol. ie: the B series headers arent going to bolt up.
basically forget about how many cams the engine has cos its irrelevant in this case

[crx88rb]

yeh, i just cant believe its so hard to find what i am looking for

[sivic]

dont worry i went through the same thing. but from what i've been told from many ppl on a number of forums who have tried, any d series header should fit

[shebangs]

In regards to TODA headers, is there a choice for size? Should I get 2.25 or 2.5"?

Also, anyone ever 'upgraded' from X-Force headers to TODA ones? Any difference?

[civicCXI]

Just got the setup installed today at Exhaust World, cost me $730 for the exhaust upgrade (extractors+cat back press steel 2"+middle resonator straight thru & rear muffler+2.5" s/steel tip) and $250 for the ceramic coating so just under $1K all up.

Pulls a lot better esp at the mid to top end, hits the rev limiter with much less effort than before. A lot more responsive at high gears/lower revs situations.

My Si with this setup still lags behind a std Accord Euro Man from a standing start in 1st and 2nd gear, but line ball in 3rd gear and pulls ahead by 4th gear.

what extractor and catback u got?

[crx51]

I saw that hitech headers review. I reckon theyve fudged up the results somehow. You cant get a 51hp atw gain from headers especially on their own on a NA engine. Headers raise power through ability to flow more air out of the engine, if at least the intake side isnt upgraded they can only restore power the factory headers are restricting. To get 51hp atw gain (45odd kw at the fly) from headers you would need a v8 supercar or something that has its 200thousand dollar engine but standart ford au xr8 headers or something on it and then change to race spec as the headers in this instance act as the bottle neck of the system. An extreme view is like there is no point having a 3inch exhaust and everything if you have a muffler from a diahatsu move on the back! Headers are the same, they will give gains as the factory one isnt perfect but in reality it cant change the power that the engine block can make at the flywheel.

The best way to view it is that the power we see from an engine is the power at the wheels, forget flywheel. However, flywheel is the max you could get at the wheels in a perfect world. If you have a 160hp engine (b16a for example) then you add the intake and exhaust system you lose a little bit of power from restriction. You then make it spin a clutch and flywheel and axles and wheels etc. This is why you see closer to 120 hp at the wheels. Without going inside the engine or adding a turbocharger you can only EVER get the power toward 160hp never above and you do this by lessening the magnitude of the restriction that is placed on it.

Therefore if you have say a b16 and it has 120 hp at the wheels and you put make it as efficient as you can with lighter components and less restriction outside you will still have less than 160hp at the wheels, convincingly. To have headers jump an output to pretty much what the engine has on an engine dyno is ridiculous and impossible.

I want to know what the go was with that review.

DC headers and x force headers seem the more popular reasonable priced headers for a honda.

Scott

[pwr2w8]

Made in Hong Kong

So far in testing we have obtained a 13kw atw gain on a B20.
With 12.5:1 comp, running AEM engine management.

[sivic]

Headers are the same, they will give gains as the factory one isnt perfect but in reality it cant change the power that the engine block can make at the flywheel.



yes they can change the power made at the flywheel. i would wager that an engine makes more power with a well designed header than with none at all.

i think you may be confused between power lost as a result of drivetrain etc. as opposed to power lost as a result of poor flow characteristics in manifolds

lower power readings at the wheels as compared to at the flywheel are a result of parasitic losses of power. ie: power used to move certain components.
the exhaust system onm the other hand affects the power made by affecting the ability for an engine to flow gases through the head, thus how much power is made at the flywheel.
its not a case of having a bare engine, with no intake manifold or exhaust manifold, which makes X amount of power and then everything you add to it is a loss on power. the manifolds are a vital component of the operating engine.

[crx51]

Fair call. What i was trying to get at is that the base engine is where the power is, and you can add things to the outside and you will get gains but it is due to these components being better than those that were benchtested standard. There is still no way that a perfect set of headers even could give 50whp on a 1.6 or 1.8 NA engine. No way in the world. But yes you are right i included too much in the losses incurred on the engine's flywheel power and yes i generalised a bit. Stupid of me,

[sivic]

yeah, i agree. it is very hard to believe such a percentage increase from just a header.

[preludacris]

maybe toda can explain it to us ..... i see it as being impossible . 15hp even , is MASSIVE .... well on an h22a anywayz, not too sure about civics n such.

[marcus]

where do i get EDELBROCK an Dc header??hw much??

[marcus]

btw where do EDELBROCK and Dc made from??

[shebangs]

I just had my 5zigen headers ($700) fitted and boy she goes hard. Massive midrange difference, top end has improved aswell. Not to mention the fact the engine is much louder too (not the exhaust). I would have prefered the TODA ones, but for $1500 couldn't justify. Didn't want to go xforce on the headers either, too cheap and nasty. xforce muffler for me is fine as it doesn't effect performance (not compared to the cost of real mugen twin loop at $1500).

So my current system is injen 1450 front mount CAI, 5zigen 4-2-1's, high flow cat, 2.25" cat back and xforce twin loop. Sounds crazy, but most importantly goes hard. s200 next week! :)

Matt

[marcus]

is 5zigen good???i planning to get a header tooo..budget around 7-800 any peeps can recommend??

[OB]

Just changed from JDM 4-1 to TODA 4-2-1... HUGE difference... torque power .... drivablilty revability.. like night and day...! and whats just as impressive is the clearance... atleast 40mm difference between the JDM 4-1 and the TODA! So that peace of mind that your not going to smash in your new headers, is in my opinion another factor as well as the obvious perfomance gains to shell out the extra $$$..!!
Picked the TODA's up for a bargain too @ $1100 brand new!!
Can't say enough about these headers!!!:thumbsup:

[Phamburger]

TODA headers are awesome :). From what OB said of them i'm expecting the same result from my car once there install. Since im changing from an Xforce 4-1 into a TODA 4-2-1 the difference in power should be dramatic.

[VTi_b0i]

yeah im sure TODA are that good, but to0 expensive :( not many of us could afford o spend 1100+ just for a set of extractors! lol

[barefootbonzai]

Agreed, there is definitely a world of difference between good and excellent headers. It was day and night for me too switching from JDM 4-1 to Buddyclub 4-2-1 race headers.

[VTi_b0i]

how much are buddy clubs?

[barefootbonzai]

Just a tad less then Toda, $1500ish vs $1200ish.

[VTi_b0i]

thats not too bad then... might save for some buddyclubs... would u recomend?

[OB]

is 5zigen good???i planning to get a header tooo..budget around 7-800 any peeps can recommend??

http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=699

[marcus]

is 5zigen headers good??

[locote]

btw where do EDELBROCK and Dc made from??

i belive stainless steel..

[Professional]

Did anyone know SMSP? I heard many good comments. But it is too expensive.

[EG5]

Agreed, there is definitely a world of difference between good and excellent headers. It was day and night for me too switching from JDM 4-1 to Buddyclub 4-2-1 race headers.

I was running JDM 4-1 and now Buddyclub 4-2-1 :thumbsup:
My Hondata s100 its untuned , its only running basic mapping at the moment , we'll see how it goes when i got time to go to dynotuning.

[VTi_b0i]

wat did u do with ur 4-1's? LOL

[xtercii]

how does buddy club header look like?
how come I have never seen it advertised anywhere, is it a new product?

[94vtirozguy]

i use none of those listed.

[marcus]

den wat did u use??

[marcus]

hey does install of headers like 4-2-1 make a difference to the car??

[Civic_Si]

Hi,

I been reading all 14 pages of headers discussion here. Most of the people are recommending X-Force, Toda and Spoon.
I was just wondering has anyone here has a set of DC headers install onto their B16A? It seems like DC headers are not very popluar here in Australia.
I am planning to get a DC 4-1 header but I am not sure of the clearance issue and any power gain. Has anyone heard good thing about DC header? And also does anyone know where I can get the DC header from in Sydney?
Thank you everyone! :)

Regards,
Johnnie

[shebangs]

The problem isn't with the DC headers. The problem is that on Ozhonda, people are either too cheap to buy decent headers (ie. Xforce) or are willing to go the whole hog and get the best headers (TODA). The middle ground isn't very popular.

Matt

[crx88rb]

hey man, there is nothing wrong with xforce headers. they have good gains but off course not as good as the more pricer headers. depending on what power you want and how much money you have determines the headers you will get for your car. nothing to do with cheap and whole wog, just your own budget and what you can get

[Civic_Si]

DC header (Plus shipping) to Sydney from the States is about est USD$400. That is about AUD$535. Compare to what shebangs said, it is a pretty much a mid-range header but looks like no one has them in their car. That is pretty sad.
Well, I have a mate to tell me all the time....
"Price will be soon forgotten.... Quality will always be remembered".
Also to spend over $1k on the header only is way too much! So Toda is out of the budget!
I am still hoping for someone with DC header to tell me more about the product! :)

[ZeForce]

Well going by these tests, http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=616, the DC header doesnt seem to be that bad of an option. Would be interesting to see how the X-Force header compares to some of those $1k+ headers.....

[camerooch]

Anyone tried HM Headers ?

[cuongn]

just wondering, is the 4-1 better or 4-2-1 better? someone told me that the 4-1 is better, is that true , or is he talking shit?

[barefootbonzai]

Well going by these tests, http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=616, the DC header doesnt seem to be that bad of an option. Would be interesting to see how the X-Force header compares to some of those $1k+ headers.....

Just had a look at them graphs they all look the same too me...:confused:

All i have to say is, you only need to drive the car with top of the line headers vs decent headers to see the difference. It's not just a little bit, the difference is very very very noticable. Seriously, in most cases, you do get what you pay for.

[sydteg21]

overall, between Jdm OEM R 4-1 and X-force 4-2-1 , which one is better, still deciding which one will be used for the R motor

[marcus]

jdm 4-1....itr jdm uses 4-1 have shown

[94vtirozguy]

Just had a look at them graphs they all look the same too me...:confused:

All i have to say is, you only need to drive the car with top of the line headers vs decent headers to see the difference. It's not just a little bit, the difference is very very very noticable. Seriously, in most cases, you do get what you pay for.

amen to that

[CUL8R]

amen to that
and amen to that!!!!

[VTi_b0i]

anyone know how many kw atw JDM 4-1 headers give?

[Professional]

It is hard to estimate. Depends on the tuning.


anyone know how many kw atw JDM 4-1 headers give?

[TheFranchise]

sorry to dig up an old thread....but has anybody used Apexi Header?

[TODA AU]

FWIW, we fitted our headers & cat + 2nd hand mugen twin loop.
This was to a bone stock EK4 VtiR.
Starting power was 88kw @ wheels...
After fitting system... 98kw... (+10kw)
Not bad for a 1600cc engine.

Dynoed in shoot 4 - Std aribox, std ECU, ignition timing set factory 16deg.

[spacemaster]

I saw that today. good stuff.

[honda_b_blastn]

http://www.sixsigmaracing.com/headers.htm formly known as DTR

Good guys to deal with,currently making a custom set of 4-2-1's for me atm to suit my build.(best of calling them,ask for Derek)

They are $$$,but as it has been said over and over "you get what you pay for"

[0098]

how much?

[TheSaint]

what kind of sound difference do you get out of toda headers? im starting to steer towards this and a mugen twin-loop system =)

is there a more recommended exhaust system for toda?

and what is the best size for dc2 - 2.25" exhaust or 2.5"?

[TODA AU]

what kind of sound difference do you get out of toda headers? im starting to steer towards this and a mugen twin-loop system =)

is there a more recommended exhaust system for toda?

and what is the best size for dc2 - 2.25" exhaust or 2.5"?

What do you mean by sound difference ?
The headers do give the engine a clean tight reving sound.
As opposed to a 4~1 stye system which sound more Subaru like...

For DC2 use 60mm ID or 2.5" OD exhaust system
FWIW, the Mugen twin loop system is very good.

[TheSaint]

thankyou for your information - very handy

i like a deep rumble sound kinda like the wrx, but i do want mid to top end power and sound isnt really important but wen ur spending this much money u want it to look, perform and sound good as long as the sound is deeper and not tinny than im happy =)

[TODA AU]

A tinny sound is more a product of the muffler than the header.
Eg: A DC5 with TODA headers has a deep smooth, muted note.
Change the cat back to a Fujitsubo Power Getter & it changes to a loud sharp blasting sound... Still clean & smooth, but very different.
Change again to say, a Buddy Club Spec 4, the note changes yet again.
It's higher pitches with a metalic ring in the exhaust..

This is all with no change to the header or cat.
But for a truley deep rumble, you'll need 4 into 1's...
Or something similar.
It may not give you the best power output, but you'll get the sound you want.
Cheers

Adrian

[TheSaint]

wow this is great information... iv been wanting to know this sort of stuff for a while.. its made me hesitant to buy

how different with the power will the 4-1 really be compared to 4-2-1? im looking for power in 2nd, 3rd, 4th gears and from about 4krpm to 9krpm

and what will the mugen twin-loop sound like? iv been looking at that and the tanabe super hyper medallion (or whatever its called)

[TODA AU]

See here...
http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=616

[TheSaint]

so 4-1 is better regardless?

now im just confused...

and whats ur opinion on the exhausts?

[TODA AU]

so 4-1 is better regardless?

now im just confused...

and whats ur opinion on the exhausts?

Not at all...
Re-read the link given and actually read it...
Not just glance at the graphs.
A good 4~2~1 beats the JDM 4~1 every where.
A not so good one does not.

The Mugen exhaust gives a deep, clean, smooth note when used with TODA headers.
Re Tanabe - sorry, it's been a while since I've worked on a carwith one fitted so I can't remember to give comment.

[TheSaint]

lol excuse my noobness but i cant determine wich ones are 4-1 and whch are 4-2-1 and there isnt much in that link beside graphs (still confused)

but i will say thankyou for your help... these are the answers i have been looking for... much apreciated =)

[hero]

lol excuse my noobness but i cant determine wich ones are 4-1 and whch are 4-2-1 and there isnt much in that link beside graphs (still confused)

but i will say thankyou for your help... these are the answers i have been looking for... much apreciated =)

hahhaha... 4-1 goes from 4 pipes into 1... 4-2-1 goes from 4 pipes to 2 pipes then 1 pipe

[TheSaint]

no the graphs from the link lol

[todas**t]

jdm 4 1 work well and give a nice beasty thump sound

[TheSaint]

well im left wondering if 4-1 run really well and give a good sound than whats the point in 4-2-1? im keen to ge a toda header but im not gona fork out that much money unless i know wat im doing lol

excuse the noobness but wen ppl say 4-2-1 are better for midrange power does that mean mid revs or mid speed? same for high end? and is it really that different to 4-1?

[TODA AU]

TODA 4~2~1 offer stronger mid range without sacrifice in top end.
Mid range & tope end refer to revs.
The other significant advantage of the TODA header is power at part throttle positions.
That is there is more power / response avaiable through transient throttle positions.
This is why when TODA headers are fitted, people notice the difference straight away.

[todas**t]

SPOON race headers man its funcky shit

[TheSaint]

man toda - full of great information

now i just have to process it all and decide whats right for me...

wich is better for street use? i have a dc2 vti-r and i would think it would need more mid range to push up to vtec quicker... but once in vtec u stay in hi rev range for longer... so which way do u go??

[locote]

Im trying to deside between TODA and 5zigen atm..
half the price of toda but still makes good numbers

[ZeForce]

Im trying to deside between TODA and 5zigen atm..
half the price of toda but still makes good numbers

Yeh, Im thinking of using either Toda or 5Zigen header as well.... Tough call :confused:

[0098]

5zigen are not all that great, but ok for the price i guess.

http://www.tprmag.com/issue/10/images/002-5Zigen.gif
The 5Zigen header showed a substantial gain in the 3000-4700 range, due mostly to the header's ability to smooth out the power curve before VTEC kicked in. Gains in this region were as large as 14hp to the wheel. Since horsepower ratings are extrapolated from torque, a corresponding increase in low to midrange torque was expected and seen, with a large majority of that increase right around the 10 lb/ft range. Because the entire powerband was shifted upwards and made more linear, peak horsepower topped out at 147.7hp - a median gain of 9.6hp.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51464&highlight=header+test+5zigen


From what i have read around on u.s forums toda make similar power to the hytech headers tested.

[locote]

TODA twice the price.
on a stock motor maybe a couple of Hp difference, worked more but 5zigen plus use left over for cams make way more power...
might have to sleep on it..

[0098]

bit more than a couple of hp difference.

[TODA AU]

Here is the dyno sheet for std EK4 VtiR.
Red line is bone stock EK4 VtiR - Std intake, std ECU, std exhaust etc.
Blue line is above EK4 VtiR + TODA Headers + TODA Performance metal cat + Mugen cat back
Std intake, ECU etc remains.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4258&d=1172111593

[gambate]

TODA AU metal cat? Toda cat?

[TODA AU]

TODA AU metal cat? Toda cat?
We now produce our own bolt-on metal cat to suit our headers & any JDM cat back system.
B16A ~ B16B ~ B18C etc
Obviously we don't make the cat core ourselves etc...
But we bring various parts together to produce a bolt-on cat than not only works well with our headers,
We are able to produce it at a reasonable price.
All stainless steel construction & TIG welded.
Uses OEM donut gasket & 100cell catalyst core.

[0098]

is it similar to the Metal Cat tm , cat?

[TheSaint]

if u buy headers... than exhaust... than cat...

OR

exhaust.. than headers... than cat...


will u be stuffed up by the diff flanges?

or if ur wanting to change cat later on u have to do it all at once?

im confused...

[TODA AU]

We do not use the brand "MetalCat"
We use a 100cell stainless core catalyst.
The brand "MetalCat" uses a 200cell stainless core.

[TODA AU]

if u buy headers... than exhaust... than cat...

OR

exhaust.. than headers... than cat...


will u be stuffed up by the diff flanges?

or if ur wanting to change cat later on u have to do it all at once?

im confused...

Buy cat-back exhaust 1st.
Buy Header & cat together.

[fatboyz39]

Another Option. Redline motorsport headers /Dyno Dave headers.

Great mid and top end power. We gain approx 10kw mid -top end on a Stock ITR motor.

[TheSaint]

so if i bought the mugen twin loop.. i dont have any options on flange to worry about? it will bolt up to stock cat+header... than wen i change the cat+header i wont have any problems there either?

soz for stupid questions.. alot of money, priority mod... i wanna get it 100% right =)

also again thanx for your help toda... brilliant

[xtercii]

Another Option. Redline motorsport headers /Dyno Dave headers.

Great mid and top end power. We gain approx 10kw mid -top end on a Stock ITR motor.

Thought Dave doesn't make headers for the public?

[todas**t]

Another Option. Redline motorsport headers /Dyno Dave headers.

Great mid and top end power. We gain approx 10kw mid -top end on a Stock ITR motor.



Thought Dave doesn't make headers for the public?

u have to be special to get 1 of dyno dave headers

[ALLMTR996]

u have to be special to get 1 of dyno dave headers
haha thats funny,Dave will make them for anyone these days he is back on the welder now that he has found his glasses.Fatboyz39 sell him your RMD header I have seen the new design its better than the one you have :p
ALLMTR996

[fatboyz39]

haha thats funny,Dave will make them for anyone these days he is back on the welder now that he has found his glasses.Fatboyz39 sell him your RMD header I have seen the new design its better than the one you have :p
ALLMTR996

Dave's headers up for grabs ..PM away ;)

[TODA AU]

Buyer beware... :zip:

[Benson]

Buyer beware... :zip:

Whats wrong Dave's headers?

Dave was kindly enough to build us set of his headers in his spare time to make us go faster down the quarter mile. There is nothing but praises for his headers. I will recommend it over any other headers that are out there on the market for price vs performance.

We have quarter mile times to actually prove the gains the headers achieved. Even on the circuit, the midrange power gain from the headers were awesome, i was able to use a higher gear through some corners as i know that i have that extra torque to pull me into the high revs. These are not bulshit dyno figures these are proven gains down the quarter mile. We easily chopped over 1/2 second down the quarter, which is a signficant amount considering the only mod added was the headers and it was a N/A car.

Like seriously, if any1 is in the makret for a decent set of headers, you guys might to consider Dave's custom headers before deciding on your purchase.

[Lukezen27]

Whats wrong Dave's headers?

Dave was kindly enough to build us set of his headers in his spare time to make us go faster down the quarter mile. There is nothing but praises for his headers. I will recommend it over any other headers that are out there on the market for price vs performance.


Like seriously, if any1 is in the makret for a decent set of headers, you guys might to consider Dave's custom headers before deciding on your purchase.

Now that Dave’s been doing a bit of research on SOHC VTec’s mes thinks there must be a nice D-series header somewhere in the mix lol
And maybe if where lucky some nice info on SOHC VTec mods and tweaks
Or is he over the whole thing? Hope not
LukeZen

[ALLMTR996]

Buyer beware... :zip:

They cant be to bad 10.83@123mph ALLMTR H22A
Bensons EG STD ITR engine 13.6
Joes Black EG STD ITR engine 13.7
So if you have something bad to say do it and I am sure the favour will be returned.Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones Mr Toda,if this is what it takes for you to get business you better start looking for a new career.Putting other peoples products down shows you have something to hide with your goods and services now where is todas**t when you need him.
ALLMTR996

[todas**t]

Buyer beware... :zip:

yes beware of ^

[0098]

they are both shit cant you see x-force is the best :rolleyes:

[dc2rrrr]

:zip: :zip: :zip: :zip: :zip: :zip: :zip:

[0098]

there should be a race to end it all

[dc2rrrr]

why cant tuners all just get along????????????????

[ALLMTR996]

why cant tuners all just get along????????????????
What does this mean ?
ALLMTR996

[.::F[L]Y::.]

i forsee this thread to be locked LOL

[todas**t]

why lock it for its starting to get interesting and alot to learn

[ginganggooly]

Buyer beware... :zip:


:thumbdwn:
I beg your pardon?
A bit rich, don't you think?

I have been dealing with DynoDave for about 6 years now. Not once, have i seen him let a car leave the workshop without it running perfectly. In fact, out of the work I have sampled -first hand- from several of the leading Honda "gurus", DynoDave's workmaship, work ethic, and RESULTS stand head and shoulders above any of the others.

[mpd076-chuck]

This thread is about headers, for any continuation of DynoDave vs Toda please start a new thread!

[Chi]

Who ever gives me a free header, ill call them the better tuner.


wait...... free header... doesn't sound right.

[Lukezen27]

Who ever gives me a free header, ill call them the better tuner.


wait...... free header... doesn't sound right.

You mean free head.......\


Ops

[todas**t]

Who ever gives me a free header, ill call them the better tuner.


wait...... free header... doesn't sound right.

ask your gf for that..... im sure she will give it to u for free:D

[ALLMTR996]

This thread is about headers, for any continuation of DynoDave vs Toda please start a new thread!
Sorry Chuck I not post anymore in this thread :zip:
ALLMTR996

[jdmTYPE R]

Sorry Chuck I not post anymore in this thread :zip:
ALLMTR996

dont be like that keep up with the post im learning more everytime some does a post.:p

[locote]

Hey i made this thread to help me make a decision on what header to buy...
ATM im looking at a 5zigen header because its half the price of all other top of the range ones..
and been told by ppl who have them how happy they are with results...
I know TODA headers are exelent i know DAVEs cars have run good times...
But im in perth..
I cant get DAVE to tune my car...
Or any of u other tuners...
Im still debatin wether to get TODA or 5zigen..
as most dyno charts ive seen TODA makes more but not by much...
If please more ppl that have toda and have 5zigen can relate their out put and comparisons that would be great....

[.::F[L]Y::.]

how about buddyclub headers??

[locote]

Same league as TODAs hey..
roughly same price too:)

[.::F[L]Y::.]

by far id say the 5zigen headers are bang for buck....

toda is good but like you said not much increase over 5zigen. toda is good for engine bling.

[EG5]

Y::.;1080920']how about buddyclub headers??

Its basicly hytech design copy . I used to have it on my EG.
1 bad thing about buddyclub header , it doesnt clear AC lol

[locote]

HHEHE.. i have no aircon so no probs for me:)

[barefootbonzai]

yep, buddyclub headers are surely up there with the best. only for the hardcore ;)

especially when tuned by Dyno Dave :cool:

[ALLMTR996]

Its basicly hytech design copy . I used to have it on my EG.
1 bad thing about buddyclub header , it doesnt clear AC lol

I think there are a couple of other Hytech/SMSP knock off's out there as well.
ALLMTR996

[mpd076-chuck]

Sorry Chuck I not post anymore in this thread :zip:
ALLMTR996

lol, that means you wanna keep the debate going... I understand, it's not one that people will give up on in a few posts...

anyways Locote, I'm not sure what the goal is with your car? I just read through a lot of this thread and maybe I missed it. Daily driver, quarter mile, track, etc? What else do you plan to do to the engine?

From my understanding a good header cannot be underestimated. But I know you can buy cams with the savings of a cheaper one. But if doing cams and increasing compression etc, maybe the 5zigen not allow as bigger gains as these other Hytech/SMSP style headers once you add the cams.

[locote]

LOW 13s would be great for me N/A...

[ALLMTR996]

lol, that means you wanna keep the debate going... I understand, it's not one that will people will give up on in a few posts...

anyways Locote, I'm not sure what the goal is with your car? I just read through a lot of this thread and maybe I missed it. Daily driver, quarter mile, track, etc? What else do you plan to do to the engine?

From my understanding a good header cannot be underestimated. But I know you can buy cams with the savings of a cheaper one. But if doing cams and increasing compression etc, maybe the 5zigen not allow as bigger gains as these other Hytech/SMSP style headers once you add the cams.

:D had to post had something worth while to say,from memory you have a US brand of header on your car if correct how did you find it.And Locote Dyno Dave is still coming over to Perth soon,he just has to get over a problem here at home then he will be over at the same time James from Hondata is going to Perth.
ALLMTR996

[mpd076-chuck]

It's given the car great top end, about 7k up (stock b18c7) it pulls much harder than stock without drop off into the rev limiter. It does go harder throughout rev range, but top end is where it really goes. For a daily driver I wouldn't have minded a bit more mid-range, perhaps that can be tuned in. So for me, a SMSP/Hytech style header with hi-flow cat and stock exhaust has worked great.

This (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61646) DynoDave header doesnt look too different from my header (mine's not a DynoDave one, different brand)... not suggesting anything bad, rather that it would probably work quite well as per the dyno's in that thread. And in an attempt to be balanced, I have seen the Toda header deliver good results too, plus having inspected one first hand, it's quality does seem very good. :p

Sorry locote, never had anything to do with 5zigen. If you want to get low 13's, I'd suggest losing as much weight as possible from the car, then pursue power.

[quangsta]

not taking sides but u guys gotta read the graph properly, don't just glance at peak power or what not cause theres only so much a bolt can give u without tuning, so keep in mind (not bagging out) 5zigen headers, but it may only be a couple of peak power hp behind toda but everywhere else toda is up too which makes the big difference. when adding other mods and especially tuning toda would win hands down

not taking sides so gonna if u choose either dyno dave or toda can't go wrong