Loose performance with Headers-Cat-STOCK MUFFLER?

[Andrew21]

Guys, trying to keep my car as LOW KEY as possible these days after having too much troubles with the boyz in blue !!

Basically I want abit more performance out of my B18B, what im thinking of doing is .

1. Aftermarket headers ( Xforce ? )
2. To suite -> 2 & 1/4" - 2.5" Cat ( ITR ? )
3. ITR 2 & 1/4" B-pipe

However i have a stock VTI-R muffler on there at the moment, looks stock and dead silent, I LOVE IT !!!

Will this stock muffler cause TOO MUCH restriction therefore wasting my money on the headers + cat ? or do you think i'll still see noticeable gains..

I know i SHOULD change the muffler to a better flowing one but i cant find a muffler that sounds STOCK !!!

Asking for your oppinions if you think its worth doing the headers and cat if i leave stock muffler...

Thanks.

[destrukshn]

why not a itr rear muff as well?

[Andrew21]

cant find one man, you rekon an itr rear muffler would flow good enough...

is a VTI-R muffler much more restrictive than a ITR muffler?

[destrukshn]

apparently the ITR muffler flows very good. for what it is, or you can always run no muffler
lol.

[bennjamin]

The ITR muffler comes on a car with power rated at 141kw , so go figure if it flows good for anything else less :)

IE it will be fine on your GSI

[tRipitaka]

and the ITR muffer has a 2.25 inlet.. so it'll be perfect for your setup

[Andrew21]

Ben in that respect, VTIR muffler comes on a car rated at 127kW compared to my car now 107kw ... Wouldnt that mean that the VTIR muffler would be fine then for I/H ? (20kw difference between GSI and VTIR @ fly)

[Felix]

a vtir mufler is basically the same as a GSI muffler, only slightly bigger in diameter, i think a quarter inch in diameter. Whereas I believe ITR muffler is better flowing due to the bends etc (or maybe this is only in the header section), as well as being bigger.

[RCS 20L]

Either go with the ITR muff... or look for a tri flow muffler... still adequate flow without the noise..... But the itr still will be more quiet....

[Andrew21]

Ok i'll keep on the lookout for a ITR muffler..

[Felix]

But seriously the ITR muffler over the vtir muffler on a GSI will probably make a difference of about .5kw to 1kw in power at the wheels. So is it really worth looking for and purchaseing an ITR muffler for what $100 for such little gain..

[Andrew21]

Thats exactly the point of this thread / i was trying to get at..

If it is going to be such a small gain like that (0.5 -1 kw).. then exactly its not going to be worth it worth it...

[GSI-PSI]

at the end of the day the car will go significantly quicker with just the headers, cat and exhaust even if it still has the stock muffler. i had a similar setup to what you want and i was beating my mates in vtecs easily. only thing is i didnt have the stock rear muffler. I chose to go a standard looking rear muffler that ya just get from exhaust shops that had the 2 1/4 to suit. Either way you will definately feel the difference.

[Andrew21]

GSI-PSI - Thanks for the input bro ! ... I think for now i'll go headers + cat + b-pipe and leave the VTIR muffler... and just keep an eye out for a a good priced muffler/ itr muffler...

Im going to get it dyno'd once its all on so i'll let you guys know how i go..

[Felix]

Thats exactly the point of this thread / i was trying to get at..

If it is going to be such a small gain like that (0.5 -1 kw).. then exactly its not going to be worth it worth it...

Possibly not even a gain at all. Depending on the headers and cat u get.

[locote]

Mate dont worry bout changing your stock exhaust better spending as much$ as you can afford on a GOOD header instead of a Xforce one.

[jdmlvn]

1. Aftermarket headers ( Xforce ? )
2. To suite -> 2 & 1/4" - 2.5" Cat ( ITR ? )
3. ITR 2 & 1/4" B-pipe


IMO, instead of getting itr cat and b-pipe.

stick with your standard cat and Bpipe and invest all the money into the header.

after all, power do come from the header.

Gary:wave: :honda: ;) :) :cool:

[sydteg21]

i think it is a waste to put a toda header or other JDM header on for this set up, Xforce will do the job just fine, how many more kW do you guys think it will gain after you put a toda one instead of xforce, won't be much la

[Andrew21]

I will have Xforce 4-2-1 headers,ITR cat (2 & 1/4") and ITR B-pipe (2 & 1/4 " Mandrel bent ) ...

Should give me some noticeable gains... Will know soon anyway...

[locote]

hey mate i stuffed up with my GSi when i done the exhaust..
I went 2.5 crush bent exhaust and a cheap header..
and i didnt get no gains.
If ur gona buy cheap parts just cause u want a header and a loud car. you will loose money cause u wont gain anything, ur better of holding on and leaving it stock and using ur cash to buy better or maybe different parts as a GSi will not gain as much as a vtec.

[Andrew21]

Locote -

1. Im going 2 1/4 " MANDREL BENT SS...
2. Im specifically NOT going for a LOUD car.

From the reviews on OzHonda most people see decent noticeable gains with Xforce headers.

I wouldnt say Xforce headers + ITR mandrel bent exhaust system would be classified as "cheap/dodgy " parts...

[Stoosh]

just a quote from TODA AU

Re X-Force 4-1
This is a header should not be regarded as competing product.
Basicly due to the fact that it's performance is so inferior.
If you are only in the market for an X-force header.
We can sell you one for $350 + shipping.
It does the job for those on a very tight budget in that it gives them a set of headers to show their friends.
Be aware we do not endorse or recommend the use of this product.
It does not perform well at all & hence are not worth much.
Ie: You get what you pay for.


i think if properly searched people with extensive knowledge say that xforce do not provide large gains in power

[bennjamin]

Yes indeed. An X force or similar is a busdget header ~ good for weight saving and little else. Gives a good noise apparently.

Overall a Nice header works best over a "cat back hiflow cat + pipng " etc. IE it will net the best results on a otherwise stock/untuned car.

[Felix]

I wouldnt say Xforce headers + ITR mandrel bent exhaust system would be classified as "cheap/dodgy " parts...

not dodgy, unless moneys not an issue then this would be a good setup for a GSI to provide some gains and a different tone.


I got a Xforce header on my vtir teg. I definately got some mid rev range gains with this header over stock. Top end power remained the same if anything maybe slightly increased. What it comes down to again is - xforce header = about $400, toda header = about $1500, Is it worthwhile spending $1100 more on a better quality header on GSI teg that will probably get you about 2kw at most over the cheaper header??

Unless you want to build your car to be the BEST it can be ie. ECU internals and tuning, then get the cheaper xforce header. Then with the rest of your money use it on something more useful, like a holiday or something.
Thats what I think anyway..

[sydteg21]

good point made :thumbsup:

not dodgy, unless moneys not an issue then this would be a good setup for a GSI to provide some gains and a different tone.


I got a Xforce header on my vtir teg. I definately got some mid rev range gains with this header over stock. Top end power remained the same if anything maybe slightly increased. What it comes down to again is - xforce header = about $400, toda header = about $1500, Is it worthwhile spending $1100 more on a better quality header on GSI teg that will probably get you about 2kw at most over the cheaper header??

Unless you want to build your car to be the BEST it can be ie. ECU internals and tuning, then get the cheaper xforce header. Then with the rest of your money use it on something more useful, like a holiday or something.
Thats what I think anyway..

[Andrew21]

Thanks Felix !!

Guys what alot of you get mixed up on is " does a Xforce header give some good results" vs " i want the best header on the market (toda e.t.c)"

Ofcourse if i spend $1k up i'll get a top of the range header and it will shit on a Xforce.. But it's a GSI, im not gonna put top of the range products and waste shit loads of money on it.

All im after is a decent header that will increase my response for a decent price... And from what i heard from ppl that use them ..they help abit and give abit better response...

I wasnt asking whats the best Header e.t.c. Ofcourse if you take a quote from a Top of the range header brand web site its gonna say it shits on a cheaper quality header...

In summery i gathered that the Xforce will give some good results and good bang for the buck..

[Felix]

^ thats right. ALOT of people on this forum believe that if its not the most expensive JDM part on the market then "its crap". I mean fair enough I wouldn't put an xforce header onto an S2000 (thats if xforce make a header for it). But is it really worth spending over 10% of what your total car is worth on the most expensive header for a few kws of gains.. cmon!

[GSI-PSI]

mate like i said before. What your getting will increase your power as did mine. I had the "cheap ass" xforce headers on mine and mine went awesome. Go with what people are saying that have got results from the xforce. You dont need to go name brands and spend heaps like most of the sheep in here do. Xforce aint the best but meh it does the job for a cheap upgrade and some of us dont get handouts by our parents to do up our cars. All i can say is go for it.

[locote]

If you put it in those terms then is it realy worth modiing a car if your gona spend 350 on header 600 on exhaust for 5hp???
Bang for buck ur better of buyin low Hp nitrous kit and give it a 20hp squirt when u have the need itll cost same as Header and exhaust but with 4 times the gains:)
(they way i look at spending money on mods is "if its not the adsolute best then better of leaving it stock and spend the $$ on a holiday like it was previously mentioned)
But thats just my point of view,

[GSI-PSI]

he wants his car to go a bit better, not blitz the track with a nos shot and fry his bottom end. lol i cant believe some of the posts comin into this simple topic

[Felix]

Bang for buck ur better of buyin low Hp nitrous kit and give it a 20hp squirt when u have the need itll cost same as Header and exhaust but with 4 times the gains:)


Yes this would be nice if your purely after a squirt of power/performance every now and again. Not soo good if you actually care about your engine life (thats if you dont do internals etc). Also I believe a PROPER, safety etc, nitrous setup would cost a fair bit more then a simple complete exhaust setup that can be done for, inc. labour $1000.

[Felix]

lol i cant believe some of the posts comin into this simple topic

me neither, i guess it is ozhonda though...

[GSI-PSI]

me neither, i guess it is ozhonda though...
haha yer i couldnt have said it better myself Felix. Kinda sad ay

[Andrew21]

GSI-PSI & Felix - You guys are right on the money, thanks for your input !!!

locote - A NOS kit on a GSI dailey driver? thats ur response to my header question ? Cmon man thats the stupidest thing i ever heard !!!

[Zilli]

everyone is different man, but do what you feel is good for you.

A lot of pride in this place, and a lot of the time it overrules reason. If you feel fit to do so, spend the 1500 bucks, but your case and your ideas coupled with the feedback on here, if i were you id just buy the xforce ones!!!

let us know how it goes champ, im on the market for headers, and im in the same boat as you, but im thinking spending a bit more on the ehaders and freeing up some bloackages in the stock cat back to make it flow a bit better, so ill be itnerested to know how it goes

[xtercii]

xforce gives you force...

[Wazza]

It's definately a continuing debate whether to go for top shelf JDM parts or something like X-Force when upgrading headers. Personally I did go for the Toda header, but perhaps a compromise for you between the two would be the JDM ITR 4-1 header, at around $750. After all, an OEM part with heat shield etc shouldnt attract attention from police but will still have great gains, which is what you are after?

[l3vnd1]

Apologies for reviving and old thread but.

I too am thinking about the same config.

I have a mugen airbox on my DC2R and was thinking about Getting Toda headers and a free flow cat to bolt up to the stock muffler setup.

I have gathered from the information above that the stock muffler is 2.25?

If thats so, what is the TODA header diameter?

What CAT do I need to get so It bolts up?

I dont want to cut anything - just bolt up.

I understand that a 2.5 inch diameter going into a 2.25 will reduce performance; but as mentioned above - I want it to look stock.

[DC4Integra98]

if your going xforce, you might as well go for the full package with their exhaust system/muffler as well.

Xforce headers
Xforce twin loop

Won't be too loud as the twin loop will muffle most of the sound (well at least more than say a cannon).

Recently did a review on it:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92492

and am also considering getting xforce headers

[l3vnd1]

Im not going Xforce. Im going TODA.

And I dont want the full muffler because I want to maintain a stock appearance.

[DC4Integra98]

oh sorry didn't realise it was an old thread and was responding to the OP.

[z3lda]

jdm dc5r muffler or dc5s muffler > dc2r muffler

[taman]

xforce aint as bad as people say.
gfyb i say.

had the 4-1's on my vtir, had it dyno in at 104kw atws
then changed to a tri-y set up and got it back on the dyno. 103kw atws.
though midrange was better on the 4-2-1's as expected.