NA motor keeping up with turbo

[maraban]

i have an ek4 b16a.

and my mate has a stock my03 wrx

now iv been told that it is possible to work an NA vtech motor so it can keep up with a stock wrx.

now i wanna know what needs to be done to the NA motor so one can represent.

[Spunkymonkey]

i have an ek4 b16a.

and my mate has a stock my03 wrx

now iv been told that it is possible to work an NA vtech motor so it can keep up with a stock wrx.

now i wanna know what needs to be done to the NA motor so one can represent.

Pour lots of money into your motor. Strip your car so its lighter. BTW its vtec.
It really depends on how much money you have to play with, and also don't forget driver skill. I'm sure if you came up against a crap driver in a wrx you could beat him.

Do a search on the tech threads for na mods, or frankenstein set ups etc.

[chicken8]

NA tuning cost more for less increase in power

you will get more power for your money from a turbo than you will from a supercharger or NA tuning

[Chuckz]

the civic will need to spend a bit of money just to keep up with a stock wrx, to keep up with a mod wrx, u would be spending much much more

[bigjo5]

anythings possible but moneys not.

[Zilli]

as stated above. a lot of it comes to driver skill, if you know your car well and know how to exploit it, and the other driver doesnt then you could come close with some breathing mods and aftermarket ecu

i was at wakefield last Monday and there was a stock wrx, probably an 02, and he couldnt get past me neither on the straights or on the bends, my car is stock bar injen intake, kings springs, and azenis rt215's

There was also an STI, and he would blow me away on the straight, but through the bends id catch up to within a carlength...

just gotta know how to drive your car i suppose

[Spunkymonkey]

as stated above. a lot of it comes to driver skill, if you know your car well and know how to exploit it, and the other driver doesnt then you could come close with some breathing mods and aftermarket ecu

i was at wakefield last Monday and there was a stock wrx, probably an 02, and he couldnt get past me neither on the straights or on the bends, my car is stock bar injen intake, kings springs, and azenis rt215's

There was also an STI, and he would blow me away on the straight, but through the bends id catch up to within a carlength...

just gotta know how to drive your car i suppose

integras handle better than stock wrx's at wakie. I also kept up to wrx's at wakie. They would gain on straight, but I lose them in corners.

[Zilli]

rex couldnt ga on the straight, if anyhting i was pulling away...

sti though, another story

[maraban]

interesting.
well i was thinking about leaving my car as a b16a but getting some head work done.
i was looking at some spec b cams and a set of 4-1 headers from toda and also a new computer.
and have it tuned.
just to get some more power out of the b16a....

any hints and tips on what to do for more power i have about 5g to spend

given that the only engine mod is a pod filter.

[Zilli]

mate the B16a is an awesome motor with many mods available to make big horsepower....

im no expert though, but with you 5g, get a nice extractor and exhaust combo, get a cold air feed for that pod,get a aftermarket computer and tune it... you might have a little change from that money to get a flywheel

[DreadAngel]

Honestly, with NA, to gain power, apart from the breathing mods, the only other option is to crack open your motor and go nuts...

[newmski]

increase displacement
increase compression
intake exhaust
tune
weight

[JRC]

this might help you can get the first package and have like 1500 left over for a few other mods....sussy, brakes etc...


or you can save for a bigger one.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51767

[destrukshn]

if you want to thrash most turbo cars out there.
drop in a k20 or even a k24.

[panda[cRx]]

Pour lots of money into your motor. Strip your car so its lighter. BTW its vtec.
It really depends on how much money you have to play with, and also don't forget driver skill. I'm sure if you came up against a crap driver in a wrx you could beat him.

Do a search on the tech threads for na mods, or frankenstein set ups etc.

there are a few relatively stock b18c crx's that are quicker than stock wrx, skyline, v8 etc.

decent engine and light body goes a long way, you dont need to go overboard on mods for it to have decent speed compared to STOCK cars

[maraban]

i would love to put in a k20a but wont that gets lots of wheel spin.
i dont wanna be ripping up 2nd 3rd and 4ths

[Q_ball]

Consider:
Driver skill,
MONEY
MONEY
MONEY!!!!

Keeping ur car NA, you're lookin at basically the following:
Engine swap,
Internal work

A stock EK4 vs stock MY03 (same driver skill) = complete mismatch, straight line or track.

[maraban]

i dont want to go for an engine swap yet.
but i know it would be easy to put in a b20b block.

but for the time being i wanna get the most out of my b16a.

[SKREMN]

its possible ive been there done that and its not worfit now have cut my losses on all previous pojects and have gone 5.7ltr V8

[Dylanamus]

$5k won't get you too far if you have to factor in labour. If that were purely for parts, you could make a beast, but I assume that's not the case.

Just try not to lose sight of the fact that you are competing with a $45-$50k car, most of which will at least have the exhaust done.

The b16a is a great engine with lots of potential, but it wasn't designed with poverty stricken tuners in mind.

If you can't do any internal work yourself, half of your budget will end up in the workshop's bank (assuming you prioritise correctly and choose a reputable engine builder/tuner).

See if you can source second hand CTR or ITR valetrain components - a lot of guys with those cars upgrade to aftermarket, selling off their stock parts at a reasonable price.

At your budget, you'd be lucky to get the head alone worked, but if you can source second hand like I said, and find a generous reputable tuner, you might just be able to squeeze in a new exhaust and a second hand header. It would all be rather wasted if you didn't have it all tuned properly though, so I'd recommend extending your budget a tiny bit to include a second hand piggy back ECU and a dyno tune.

If you got all that done, I think you could expect between 115 and 125 at the wheels and, coupled with some weight reduction, your power to weight ratio should be getting mighty close to over taking the WRX.

[Limbo]

for $5k i'd just go turbo if you really wanna beat the wrx so much.
It will do more than what you would get by staying NA

[destrukshn]

its possible ive been there done that and its not worfit now have cut my losses on all previous pojects and have gone 5.7ltr V8

and a good choice that was.
lol.
kinda.

[ZeForce]

Swap your bottom end for a B20b.... Thats what Im doing :thumbsup:

[marabaan]

yeh thats what i want to do put a b20b.
but i want to do some work to the head first.
i wanna go with some new cams.
iv looked around and have seen some good prices for some b16b cam(cheap way)
or i spend a lil bit more and get some toda spec b cams.. (expensive way)

[ZeForce]

This article might help you make your decision....

http://www.importreview.com/reviews/todaVSjun3VStyper.html

[SLOWEGG]

To keep up to a stock WRX wont take much. Just do they usual I/H/E and that should be enough. But if really want to gain alot of power, increase your displacement. Save up abit more money ontop of your 5000 and do 1.8L or 2.0L LSVTEC + ECU.

[gnx1987]

What route do you want to take in the future. Go turbo or stay NA. If you wanna stay NA, but still want get heaps of power go engine swap.

[qstoria]

its harder than u think. go for a drive in a wrx with someone who knows how to launch them well and then do the same in a b-series civic/crx/integra and u will see. they just lacks the torque that the wrx pulls. not impossible but realistically it is hard.

just my 2 cents

[SLOWEGG]

Of course wrx will own a civic at the launch, AWD vs FWD. Rolling start you will just need minor mods to keep up to a STOCK wrx.

[maraban]

well as i have just started.
i want to do it all in stages
1st stage would be to get all the I/H/E and also an ecu+ tuning
2nd stage i wanted to do work to the head spec b cams and everything to match it
3rd stage i wanted to swap the block with a b20b
4th "if i ever get to it" Jackson supercharger
and i would be done.
but right now im only at the first stage.
and i know its going to be alot of money spent

[Spunkymonkey]

;979427']there are a few relatively stock b18c crx's that are quicker than stock wrx, skyline, v8 etc.

decent engine and light body goes a long way, you dont need to go overboard on mods for it to have decent speed compared to STOCK cars

Yeah I know... I've got a couple of relos with a similar set up in their crx's ;)

[SLOWEGG]

well as i have just started.
i want to do it all in stages
1st stage would be to get all the I/H/E and also an ecu+ tuning
2nd stage i wanted to do work to the head spec b cams and everything to match it
3rd stage i wanted to swap the block with a b20b
4th "if i ever get to it" Jackson supercharger
and i would be done.
but right now im only at the first stage.
and i know its going to be alot of money spent

Should tune it after all the head work or even your block swape just to save some money on tuning ;)

[jdmlvn]

any chance your MMM-789?

[marabaan]

any chance your MMM-789?

and im guessing that you have seen me in green valley

[Vinnie]

To keep up to a stock WRX wont take much. Just do they usual I/H/E and that should be enough.

hmm i doubt it. a stock my03 wrx runs a 5.7sec 0-100 and has 300nm of torque to play with... and if the rex gets any mods itll disappear off into the distance. its definately possible to get an ek4 to keep up its jus not that easy...

however imho, if ur main aim with ur car is to be as fast as a wrx, pouring loads of money into an NA car prob isnt ur best option unless ur really attached to it. if u put that money instead into buying a turbo car (nissan, subaru etc.) then ull have a decent platfrom to start with and getting more power out of it further down the track will be much cheaper and easier. theres only so far u can go with an NA fwd honda...

[Q_ball]

So much money jst to keep up with a STOCK WRX...
Seriously, spend that 5k elsewhere.

[Tarks]

So much money jst to keep up with a STOCK WRX...
Seriously, spend that 5k elsewhere.

trust u to pounce on a thread with the word WRX in it hehehe

dude spend ur money wisely, dnt go spending it all on engine mods in order to keep up with another car.. unless ur building it for track in that case go for it :)

[preludacris]

i dun rekn you should spend so much money to keep up with a stock wrx either.

either go turbo from the start, or just do basic i/h/e clutch /fly, and tune. that will be pretty quick already.

rexies launch like bitches man. not much point trying to compete with that. imo, waste of money to mod ur car for traffic light grand prix's. invest in some coilovers and good tyres even?

anywayz, up to u. u get over the draggin stage, and get into the twisties and track stage eventually.

[marabaan]

invest in some coilovers and good tyres even?

anywayz, up to u. u get over the draggin stage, and get into the twisties and track stage eventually.


i think you have a point.
the first thing i did to my car was put some coil overs on.
i think it was money well spent.

i just need to find a good set of headers and ecu.
i was told that the hondata ones are good but not sure which one.

[Dylanamus]

The Hondata S200 seems to be the common choice, assuming you're not 0bd0 like me grr

I have to ask... do you want to build your car specifically to be able to drag off WRXs? Or are you just using the WRX as a benchmark for performance. ie a comparison that everyone should be familiar with?

If you said "I want to build an N/A track car that can pull roughly the same quarter mile as a stock WRX" you'd probably have got a different line of responses.

As a lot of people have said, if the purpose really is specifically to drag off WRXs at the lights, then you might as well just get a turbo from day one.

By the way... if you think building your head and block up for N/A power then adding a super charger is a good idea, you're slightly misinformed. If you do have a long term goal and are dedicated to achieving it, then focus on the end product and work your way back. Hondas are fussy and it can be easy to screw up a project with mis-matched components. Sounds to me like you have a lot of research and planning ahead of you.

Keep posting until you're 100% clear on every step of the job, otherwise you could end up looking back thinking "that $3k I wasted back there could have been handy right now". Good luck!

[marabaan]

there are some really good point in all the replys and its made me think alot about what im going to be doing with my car.
i know a civic wont be able to keep up to a wrx at the lights but how about on the track.
a wxr is just as example of what i want to be able to keep up with.

[Dylanamus]

In that case, brace yourself for very different responses.

Keeping up on the track is a different ball game. You can reduce your lap times in so many different ways that don't even involve touching the engine.

There are so many inspirational drivers and cars on this forum achieving excellent track times that are equally or even bettering WRXs, Lancers, Skylines etc. Some with unmodified engines!

You could sell your SS and upgrade to full race spec coilovers and get extra stiff adjustable sway bars, semi slicks and a better LSD for $5k and you'd probably improve your times by more that way than by putting the same cash into engine mods.

With this in mind, you are better off focusing your efforts on the handling and the drivetrain FIRST and then reevaluating your power afterwards.

[marabaan]

so right now its more on driver skill then power.

back to the drawing board i go to figure out what i really need from what i really want.

[xtercii]

Why does it take so much to keep up with a wrx? A standard wrx is good for low to flat 14 when it does an absolute rip of a launch, if it bogs or launches normally it’s only good for high 14s or even worse. Zco on this forum did a 14.7 in his very standard ek4, surely there was some stripping but the point is ek4 is not slow, with some basic mods and keep the car’s weight sensible you will have a very good chance. And to top it off, your ek4 can take the advantage of this hot summer, all the turbo cars will suffer substantially, where your na Honda won’t be affect as much. So have faith in your ek4 and practice on how to extract the best outta your car.

And one last thing, you don’t have to pick on a modified wrx or turbo cars, no one would say you are a chicken since you are the underdog, but when you beat or keep up with a standard rexy, you will draw praise and respect. And of course make sure you only do that on the tracks or the drags.

[destrukshn]

i dun rekn you should spend so much money to keep up with a stock wrx either.

either go turbo from the start, or just do basic i/h/e clutch /fly, and tune. that will be pretty quick already.

rexies launch like bitches man. not much point trying to compete with that. imo, waste of money to mod ur car for traffic light grand prix's. invest in some coilovers and good tyres even?

anywayz, up to u. u get over the draggin stage, and get into the twisties and track stage eventually.
depends if hte person knows how to launch, give it tooooooo much it'd break, don't give it enough, it'd bog.
lol.

[Da1nONLY]

So much money jst to keep up with a STOCK WRX...
Seriously, spend that 5k elsewhere.


or sell your car..
and buy a WRX.. :)

[destrukshn]

or sell your car..
and buy a WRX.. :)
make sure it's a sti
lol.

[marabaan]

yeh i was thinkin about selling my honda and getting a wrx....
but stuff that i like N/A cars which can be reved off its ****

[xtercii]

Revving is so fantastic!!! HAHA….

[marabaan]

and plus the sound of vtec...
i dont mind the sound of the wrx but i love vtec more..

and must iv seen hondas which rev out to 10rpm
now how mad is that

[Dylanamus]

Seriously spend this first $5k on better coilovers (sorry to insult your SS setup, but I have them too so consider it an informed piece of advice) stiffer sways and some track dedicated tyres. Do some weight reduction, maybe get a [better] LSD (I presume your transmission has an LSD? - If not, then there are heaps of aftermarket add on LSDs for your tranny!).

If you've got anything left over, get a second hand header from a reputable company, fix up your intake (probably best to just put a high flow filter in the stock box and remove the resonator etc), and patch up any bottle necks in your exhaust ie any pieces of piping that are smaller than the largest part and get a high flow cat.

There really isn't much point putting your $5k straight into headwork etc if your exhaust is bottle necking it and if your car won't even maintain grip around the corners...

If you want a high reving N/A track car. Get it trackable first (ie all the above suggestions), then start planning some major headwork. Check the Toda threads relevant to your engine for some ideas on what can be done. The b16a can be tuned to rev out to 10k rpm safely with aftermarket internals. Just keep in mind stuff always costs more than you think and try to plan ahead.

[marabaan]

http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=61362&hl=

i just got sent this link from a mate of mine and what the wrx guys think of hondas..

if anyone has a civic which can beat a wrx can i pm plz

coz i know the guy with the wrx

[jackosimm]

hahahahahahaaha



breath




hahahahahahahaha

[Vinnie]

http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=61362&hl=

i just got sent this link from a mate of mine and what the wrx guys think of hondas..

if anyone has a civic which can beat a wrx can i pm plz

coz i know the guy with the wrx

im with the wrx guys on this one sry :( apart from the comments about teh almighty (lol) vtec, buying a civic and then looking at pouring loads of money into it to get it to keep up with a car thats much better suited for that sort of stuff is pretty pointless... a civic is a more entertaining and involving car to drive and was not designed to compete the cars like the rex. y ruin wat the civic has goin for it by trying to make it into a drag beast? either give it a bit more power and enjoy it for wat it is or dump it imo... i think ur approaching ur modifying in the wrong way by simply trying to be faster than ur friend...

[marabaan]

dude the wrx was an example....
i didn't want to make a Honda into a wrx...
i have heard that on the track that some worked b20b have engines have been able to keep up and overtake a wrx..

thats all

[turbo convert]

at the end of the day the rexy will beat u and if you get him eventaully by spending 5k he will just go spend 1k and you will be behind again, but just remeber this just wait till he keeps launching and the gearbox will break(common on 4wd) and then he will be up for 3k while ur still just cruzin along, i changed from turbo cars to vtec and y.....................reliabilty!.and canarys

[Kiz_EG6]

hey man

1. weight
2. air flow
3. tuning
4. handling
5. rubber

i had an eg6 na b16a, it was faster and handelled betta than my dc2r (no lsd though :( ) anyway, that had a stock jap b16a, when i first got it all it had was a pod and an exhaust tip, pulled a bit ova 100kw atw.

pretty fast, but got far more bang outta a set of 4:1 extractors and well tuned emanage.

the car was only 900kg from factory, so already ur power to weight ratio is fantastic.

big sways and tight sussy will help with ur launch (not to mention handling), plus some sticky tires.
I had a full whiteline/ koni rig on her, plus some maxxis victra tires, light flywheel and xhd clutch and she flew off the line.

there were a few otha mods too, anyway, dunno bout a rex, but it would comfortably sit next to a ba xr8 (so long as i didn't have any of my "bigger" mates in the passenger seat).

So, yeah, you can get a b16 flyen wit no internal work, wish i had a final dyno # for you, but neva got her back on one!

(i've also heard bout an na b20 (crvtec) crx pulling low 11's down a quarter mile. but that's probably got every internal mod you can think of!
I'll post vid of it if i can find.)

[sub11z]

with ur 5k, Your EK4 can rip the rex for sure man... Dont listen to what the guy say on rexnet. Somebody mention their stock civic can do 14.7 1/4, im sure you can beat him.

[Vinnie]

Somebody mention their stock civic can do 14.7 1/4, im sure you can beat him.

not to sound critical here but the the only official figure ive seen for a stock ek4 is an 8.7 sec 0-100 and ude be doin a hell of a job to get a 14 sec quarter with a 0-100 like that...

[destrukshn]

zco on the forum.
14.79 in his ek4.
only mod is intake.
now... 14.79, that is highly respectable from practically a next to dead stock standard ek4.

[Q_ball]

We can all mod our cars to be faster than the other...
But end of the day, the question is,
Can you drive?

[z3lda]

ahaha at stupid people who think they civic's are fast. haha

[nigs]

Such little faith in all the cars you guys drive.
Each car serves its purpose. Different strokes for different folks.
And least we forget...we are comparing a Civic with a WRX. One is FWD 1.6L the other is a AWD 2L turbo car based off WRC R&D.

But in saying that, yes there isn't much needed to beat a stock Rex. What they have going for them is the AWD, if the person doesn't captialise that on launch then the car has lost it's edge.

I've raced a MY02 with full 3" exhaust on 0.8 BAR from a 1st gear roll. Was pretty even through the low gears but he shifted early due to the small turbo (6,200rpm). I started to pull a little in 4th but ran out of road. Different story when he switched to 1.2-1.3BAR. The race was over by the end of 2nd LOL. See how such a small adjustment on the WRX's part made a big different in it's performance. We don't have the pleasure of that. So please keep that in mind when moding your car in the hopes of beating a stock
turbo car. T.T

Because the turbo in the 02' model is smaller (compared to MY00), boost comes in pretty early (2,200rpm I think). So they lose out on top end. Haven driven the car myself, the power seems to drop off around 5,800-6,000rpm. If he was reving it out to 7,000rpm. I believe I would have gotten a bigger lead every shift he made. (8,000rpm)

Another mate has given the WRX a go too. EG Civic with a JDM B16a. CAI, stock headers and 2.5" exhaust. Was pretty even I was told. But his Civic is quicker than mine.
Pretty hard comparing the 2 cars though. Our Civics have basically stock interior if not slightly stripped. The WRX had some I.C.E = more weight.
And again if we compare price, 8-16K vs 24-30k. :S
But what if we stuck both these cars on the track, it would be pretty interesting.

The crucial thing for any low powered car is weight.
At the end of the day, if you want out right power with bang for buck in mind. Go forced induction or a large displacement motor.

Civics with light mods are just fun cars. <3

[z3lda]

another civic owner thinking their car is fast... :rolleyes*

[qstoria]

nigs, is your EG3 stock?

[phantom_civic]

its all up 2 the driver.

[RyDC5S]

Weight reduction is your friend, Ive seen AE86s with stock 4AGE engines keep up with modern turbos.

[civicCXI]

Weight reduction is your friend, Ive seen AE86s with stock 4AGE engines keep up with modern turbos.

Hahhaha, i have a video of 2 ae86s overtakes a r34 gtr. The gtr driver was a noob and the ae86s drivers were tsuchiya and some other famous racing driver. So yeah it's all come down to the driver

[nigs]

nigs, is your EG3 stock?
Not really.....but it is one thing for sure! It's broken lol.

Heh, I don't think Civics are they fast. But I don't think near stock WRX's are fast either. We're both slow if that keeps you happy. It's just fun to give each other a go :)

More proof last night. JDM EG civic pulled from the WRX in 4th gear @ ~150km/hr. :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda:

This all doesn't really mean much, just a bit of fun between each other and proof that Civics aren't THAT slow.....

[PaZzMaN-R]

to answer your question. i would say engine conversion. jdm k20!, or any b series engine with a turbo attachment as long as its coupled with a nice turbo setup. dont drag a wrx off the line anyways, awd vs fwd you have no chance. once running wrx's arnt that quick, especially with their fully sick 20" chromies broooo!
set ur targets higher;) thats why we all drive hondas because we love to dream... the power of honda

[sendok]

powerful car + skillful driver (+luck) = unbeatable

That's my opinion LOLz

[marabaan]

some ppl say get turbo. but the point i was trying to prove was that a honda would be able to keep up with a wrx with out resorting to turbos or supercharges.

[qstoria]

if u have a k20 swap in a light car like a civic with at least IHE then u would be hoping to at least match a rex in a drag. kpro and tune and ur set.

NA b-series, hmm maybe a b18cR thats pretty worked. have a go by all means but dont cry if u get nailed

[SLOWEGG]

Seriously mate, just do the main things first like headers, cai, zorst. Then work your way up. Just give your mate a go first even just to see how you go then each mod see the difference.

Heres a link to give you a rough idea what to do http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19495.

End of the day, it wont take you much to keep up or even beat a STOCK wrx.

[Kiz_EG6]

ahaha at stupid people who think they civic's are fast. haha

man... it's still a corona, doesn't that engine tear out of the engine bay...

Leave the civic boys alone!!

Each to their own, but i'd thake a stock civic ek4 ova any corona on the planet!!

[Kiz_EG6]

another civic owner thinking their car is fast... :rolleyes*

how about... no one is f***ing impressed and if ur toyota is so f***ing good why aren't you on toymods bragging about it there where someone mite actually be impressed!!

Dude, it's not all about fl;at out power.

SOME of us chose hondas because they are just damn good cars... Reliable, fun, and not to mention economical. Yeah, so a stock 1.6l isn't going to pull a 10 second quarter mile but maybe... just MAYBE that's not all it's about.

[z3lda]

how about... no one is f***ing impressed and if ur toyota is so f***ing good why aren't you on toymods bragging about it there where someone mite actually be impressed!!

Dude, it's not all about fl;at out power.

SOME of us chose hondas because they are just damn good cars... Reliable, fun, and not to mention economical. Yeah, so a stock 1.6l isn't going to pull a 10 second quarter mile but maybe... just MAYBE that's not all it's about.

sorry, i dont need to brag about things that you might think is fast, but in reality its not..






i had an eg6 na b16a, it was faster and handelled betta than my dc2r (no lsd though :( ) anyway, that had a stock jap b16a, when i first got it all it had was a pod and an exhaust tip, pulled a bit ova 100kw atw.

pretty fast, but got far more bang outta a set of 4:1 extractors and well tuned emanage.

[Cyph3R]

How can you compare a WRX to Civic , 2 totally different leagues. A civic is probably one of the best NA 4 cylinder car's in the market but there is just 2 much of a difference between booth .....
HEavy weight fighter would not fight a feather weight!!!!!!!!

Stupid question I say .... unless you are goign to k20 or boost the biatch!!!!!

[civic_mods]

For same driver skill.....both in stock form

WRX Kill a EK4 anywhere........
Those "You use semi,he got shit tyres","Better driver Skill","Better handling feel" is quite pointless if u talking about how can a Ek4 beat a WRX.....

In corner handling issue,the EK4 will feel better than wrx(by saying that,i a ctually owned a 190kw atw WRX and a 2 door STi and also a EK and DC2R b4).....but corner speed.....if they use same tyres....the wrx won't be beaten.......so.........depends on how many guts u got.....

Anythings is possible,just depends on 2 factors....
Driver skill,Money,Money and Money......

I personally saw modproject EG(B18CR) chase up with a porsche GT3 and 350Z Turbo in winton last week, but ask him how much he had spend on NA tuning and if u can spend that much, ur Ek4 will be an animal.....

This kind of topic had been discussed too many times....

Just Drive your car and enjoy it......

[RMN15N]

lols, if ur really interested in ur little b16a that has awsome hidden powers i suggest u speak to paul owner of eg16a
his little hatch would cream a wrx..
from what i heard he is an outstanding driver and shifts quicker then superman
his eg ran a 13. somthing down the 1/4 mile ive been told..
so pm him find out more about what he has done to his motor i suppose?

[Dylanamus]

I daresay he's spent more than $5k. You could spend $100k on a b16a Civic if you wanted to. It's definitely easy to spend $20k on one, just ask a few owners around Ozhonda hehe

But seriously, if your budget is $5k or below, there isn't even any point in focusing it on power unless your handling is already top notch. Handling is so important. Using the power of retrospect, I would say if I were to choose a new car to buy the number one factor contributing to the final decision would be the inate handling capacity of the vehicle. Ie the chasis potential, the suspension mounting points, the weight distribution.

Unless you just want to drive in a straight line (and I'm not saying that isn't cool or fun), focus on handling and get more out of what your car is really about!

Personally, and this is a matter of opinion, I don't see the point in preparing a $15,000 1.6 FWD car for the drag strip. It's great to jump on the strip and see how your street car holds up, but to dedicate it to that purpose you either have to be specifically wanting to compete against other FWD classes (in which case you should have got a $1k rolling shell early to mid 80s civic (lighter/cheaper etc) and done an engine swap from day one.

What I am saying is it sounds like you've got your car and your goals mixed up. If you want to beat a WRX on the strip, seriously forget working your b16a N/A - it's a waste of money. If you want to achieve similar or better times than a WRX around a track, then $5k worth of extra power isn't going to squat if you just understeer 20kmpw slower than he can take corners beofore losing control.

Swap out the Teins, get something designed for the track. Get adjustable aftermarket suspension components. Get struts and sways. Get decent tyres. Then start adjusting everything until your times minimise. Use the next year of saving up as time to practice driving and improving your times. Then start thinking again about getting a bit more power.

Otherwise, just sell your car and get a WRX :P

[Twincam16]

Hang on hang on...

Did somebody say "Stock" wrx!!

I havnt seen one of those in about 7 years...

[destrukshn]

well i see one every weekend.
mate has one.
has no intention of modifying it either.
lol.
hates loud cars, and bumpy rides.

[80057]

well i see one every weekend.
mate has one.
has no intention of modifying it either.
lol.
hates loud cars, and bumpy rides.

i agree since the newer rexes after 2k arent that big a seller there are less mods going on, dont get me wrong there are truck loads of modded rexs, but not as many as there used to be. remember the pre 2k shape (still reckon it looks the best) 95% probably had something done to them.

i see heaps of the newer ones stock, unless they are all sleepers, tho i dont know anyone who buys a rex to be a sleeper

[Dylanamus]

There's heaps of middle aged blokes with families who just want a safe 4 door that they can have a bit of fun with. There's probably a lot more WRX owners who just got their car as a family car and didn't even think twice about performance potential.

Anyway my 2c is if you got a Honda it's because you like that go-kart feel to driving. Improve upon that. If you like the thrust you back into your seat style of driving, get a v8 or something. If you like a combination of both, get a Ferrari. My point is, focus on the aspects of your car that it is designed for and that make it fun to drive.

[RMN15N]

dylanamus forking out 5k isnt little man..
u gotta work hard for 5 grand
if he wants to start modding his car.. 5 grand will do alot
since it already has a b16a
things he should just do (this thread is about how to eat a stock wrx)
1. headders + high flow combo ($700)
2. lighten toda B series flywheel ( $500, find a used one would probably set you back $250 )
3. cam's $800
4. hondata s100 (used $500)
5. good tuning (toda,dyno dave etc) $600

this is just a rough estimate of what you could do
so far that would set you back
$3100 somthing around there
there are other things u could do like cold air intake
like injen, mugen that kinda thing
dont doubt it mate. 5k is alot of money..
unless u go to the wrong places and get a new assh0le riped outta you =D
then with the spare pocket change u could probably afford coil overs still
and the struts n stuff are fairly cheap.

[marabaan]

just a reminder that this thread is about what needs to be done to a b16a to keep up of munch a stock WRX

[Dylanamus]

Well if you want to beat a stock WRX and never take it any further, then sure, source some second hand internals. Otherwise if you have plans of taking it to another level later on, I'd focus on keeping the engine internals stock and putting the money towards getting the most out of your engine when you do crack it open and beef it up. Again if it's for the track, you will seriously get better times by firstly improving your handling. Power won't make you much faster overall when a b16a can still throw you hard into the corners anyway.

There's a lot of people around who have bought packages to work their heads and never got around to it, so you can get the whole kit for around $1500 if you're patient. ie. Cams, cam gears, springs, retainers. I'm not talking Toda for that price, but maybe something like Skunk2 or ITR/CTR stuff.

If it's gonna cost you $500 to get an ecu and another $500 for a tune. That's $2500 already. And you'll probably find that if you get the head built by someone reputable it'll cost you next to $2500 in labour and gaskets/seals.

$5k is a lot of money. I never disputed that fact. Man for me $500 is a lot of money haha But $5k will only get you so far in performance modifications. You're better off budgeting ahead than behind too. Dreaming up a cheap fix and then being brought down to reality is why half these internals go up for sale in the first place.

Edit: RMN15N: While I do agree with you, you are overlooking the fact that not everyone has the mechanical aptitude to do all their own work. I didn't see labour (or the commonly overlooked additional parts like seals etc) factored into your suggestions anywhere. Labour is the killer that decks us non grease monkies. $2500 might be an exaggeration for headwork. But just to give you an idea, a reputable workshop near my locale gave my friend a quote very close to $2000 for similar work including a valve grind and conversion to a type R intake manifold. So it's not cheap stuff to get done properly.

[RMN15N]

Well if you want to beat a stock WRX and never take it any further, then sure, source some second hand internals. Otherwise if you have plans of taking it to another level later on, I'd focus on keeping the engine internals stock and putting the money towards getting the most out of your engine when you do crack it open and beef it up. Again if it's for the track, you will seriously get better times by firstly improving your handling. Power won't make you much faster overall when a b16a can still throw you hard into the corners anyway.

There's a lot of people around who have bought packages to work their heads and never got around to it, so you can get the whole kit for around $1500 if you're patient. ie. Cams, cam gears, springs, retainers. I'm not talking Toda for that price, but maybe something like Skunk2 or ITR/CTR stuff.

If it's gonna cost you $500 to get an ecu and another $500 for a tune. That's $2500 already. And you'll probably find that if you get the head built by someone reputable it'll cost you next to $2500 in labour and gaskets/seals.

$5k is a lot of money. I never disputed that fact. Man for me $500 is a lot of money haha But $5k will only get you so far in performance modifications. You're better off budgeting ahead than behind too. Dreaming up a cheap fix and then being brought down to reality is why half these internals go up for sale in the first place.

Edit: RMN15N: While I do agree with you, you are overlooking the fact that not everyone has the mechanical aptitude to do all their own work. I didn't see labour (or the commonly overlooked additional parts like seals etc) factored into your suggestions anywhere. Labour is the killer that decks us non grease monkies. $2500 might be an exaggeration for headwork. But just to give you an idea, a reputable workshop near my locale gave my friend a quote very close to $2000 for similar work including a valve grind and conversion to a type R intake manifold. So it's not cheap stuff to get done properly.


yeah i do agree with you, i did forget to mention that most of you guys arnt grease monkeys, but
some people do underate the 1.6L vtec engine.
sure when there stock there pretty much pansy cars,
but with slight modifications and driving techniques you can beat a stock wrxy.

ie; my mates ek4, previous owner had a custom made intake from plazman and with that stock car he ran a 14.7 down the 1/4
stock wrxy's run 14 flat
with more help like headders + highflow cat , HD clutch + an cold air intake
you could eat stock wrx's morning to dark.
but then again, u gotta learn how to launch it correctly and drive ur car b4 you do anything..
cause if ur a sh*t driver even with a slightly worked motor ur still gonna lose to a hyundai excel... trust me ive seen this happen
** cough (NVD-VTC)

[EG5]

a good Intake , header , exhaust, Type R IM + TB , CTR cams , valve springs , Hondata / Power FC ECU , Lightweight flywheel + good clutch , Type R gearbox with 4.7 fd or run 4.9 ATS FD > dyno tune it + good driving skills.

for your information egb16a ( paul ) ran 13.6 with his stock bottom end b16a motor. ( NA ) all the above list is what he got only on his car.

[smudge]

I personally saw modproject EG(B18CR) chase up with a porsche GT3 and 350Z Turbo in winton last week, but ask him how much he had spend on NA tuning and if u can spend that much, ur Ek4 will be an animal.........

That EG is a quick little jigger alright. It would be interesting to see him going against other cars that were being driven flat out.

The GT3 wasn't going all out, the Ferrari Challenge had it's A/C on and the 350Z turbo had slight mechanical issues (and the drivers still have a bit left in them as well). The 350Z turbo was slower than David M's N/A 350Z so it probably isn't a really valid comparison.

[Speeder]

i agree since the newer rexes after 2k arent that big a seller there are less mods going on, dont get me wrong there are truck loads of modded rexs, but not as many as there used to be. remember the pre 2k shape (still reckon it looks the best) 95% probably had something done to them.

i see heaps of the newer ones stock, unless they are all sleepers, tho i dont know anyone who buys a rex to be a sleeper

That is because kids can't fork out over 40k for the new WRX. They are plenty of mods available for the new WRX overseas too...

[marabaan]

a good Intake , header , exhaust, Type R IM + TB , CTR cams , valve springs , Hondata / Power FC ECU , Lightweight flywheel + good clutch , Type R gearbox with 4.7 fd or run 4.9 ATS FD > dyno tune it + good driving skills.

for your information egb16a ( paul ) ran 13.6 with his stock bottom end b16a motor. ( NA ) all the above list is what he got only on his car.




what type of headers did EGB16A (paul) use.
did he use the toda ones or the jdm itr ones

[EG5]

what type of headers did EGB16A (paul) use.
did he use the toda ones or the jdm itr ones

x force 4-1

[marabaan]

x force 4-1

and how much power does egb16a get out of his car

[0098]

Great topic. 1st four pages of people saying swap your engine or buy a turbo car was annoying.
For a N/A 1.6L to keep up with a WRX even if stock is so much more special than buying a turbo car or putting a bigger engine and doing it.. some of you are missing the point.. Even if someone was to spend 15k on their engine it would be faster more original and cheaper than buying a brand new wrx or similar.

[VTi_b0i]

i munch stock wrx's :D lol

[G-nos]

what about a b18c7 stock can that keep up with a wrx stock...

[VTi_b0i]

in what car? in a stock EG hatch, with exhaust yes, depending on driver... in a tarago... no

[RyDC5S]

Hahhaha, i have a video of 2 ae86s overtakes a r34 gtr. The gtr driver was a noob and the ae86s drivers were tsuchiya and some other famous racing driver. So yeah it's all come down to the driver

GT-R is disadvantaged in touge runs, 86 killed it around the corners.

[yourfather]

as stated above. a lot of it comes to driver skill, if you know your car well and know how to exploit it, and the other driver doesnt then you could come close with some breathing mods and aftermarket ecu

i was at wakefield last Monday and there was a stock wrx, probably an 02, and he couldnt get past me neither on the straights or on the bends, my car is stock bar injen intake, kings springs, and azenis rt215's

There was also an STI, and he would blow me away on the straight, but through the bends id catch up to within a carlength...

just gotta know how to drive your car i suppose


Well, stock vs stock the best motoring crew can usually get stock DC2R's to beat WRX's

[Mr_will]

Great topic. 1st four pages of people saying swap your engine or buy a turbo car was annoying.
For a N/A 1.6L to keep up with a WRX even if stock is so much more special than buying a turbo car or putting a bigger engine and doing it.. some of you are missing the point.. Even if someone was to spend 15k on their engine it would be faster more original and cheaper than buying a brand new wrx or similar.

not necessarily cheaper - whilst it might involve a lesser outlay of cash straight up, a person with a turbo honda will have a very difficult time selling it, compared to the person who bought a wrx.

and it wouldnt really be that original, there are plenty of turbo hondas around.

at the end of the day, performance hondas are track inspired cars, whereas the wrx is rally inspired car - their purposes are different, and people who are comparing them should take a look at what they really want out of their car, and not how it stacks up against a wrx.

[locote]

My B18c EG, with I/E mods absolutly craps all over stock wrxs lol, even ones with mild mods.
Silvias unless they have turbo upgrades with descent boost i eat..

Light chassis with a potent plant like a B18c or K20 will blast most of these turbo rwd awd off the road

[0098]

not necessarily cheaper - whilst it might involve a lesser outlay of cash straight up, a person with a turbo honda will have a very difficult time selling it, compared to the person who bought a wrx.

and it wouldnt really be that original, there are plenty of turbo hondas around.

at the end of the day, performance hondas are track inspired cars, whereas the wrx is rally inspired car - their purposes are different, and people who are comparing them should take a look at what they really want out of their car, and not how it stacks up against a wrx.

read my post again - N/A 1.6L

a N/A 1.6L Honda civic that can keep up with a stock wrx is very original.

What they really want out of their car is for it to stack up against a standard wrx lol, thats why this topic was created.

[BlitZ]

its possible ive been there done that and its not worfit now have cut my losses on all previous pojects and have gone 5.7ltr V8

fark.. nice..:thumbsup:

[BlitZ]

My B18c EG, with I/E mods absolutly craps all over stock wrxs lol, even ones with mild mods.
Silvias unless they have turbo upgrades with descent boost i eat..

Light chassis with a potent plant like a B18c or K20 will blast most of these turbo rwd awd off the road

S15?
I find s15 crazy fast compared to S14

[locote]

I had a s15 and stock with just a catback exhaust i manage a 13.8.
plus 5mph more than my NA civics last run...
But were talking 8psi through a SR20DET vs a B18c with bolt on exhaust lol

[RyDC5S]

I had a s15 and stock with just a catback exhaust i manage a 13.8.
plus 5mph more than my NA civics last run...
But were talking 8psi through a SR20DET vs a B18c with bolt on exhaust lol

SR20DET is damn good motor, my mate's S15 - just basic I/E and slight boost raise (another 40-50 RW kw)

[Mr_will]

its not really fair to compare the effect of exhaust mods on n/a's to those on turbos - the exhaust on factory turbos is a huge restriction compared to the exhaust on factory n/a's. gains on turbos from aftermarket exausts will always be greater than those on n/a engines

[Vlas]

yeah its so unfairrrrrrrr

[locote]

WTF is with ur avatar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THATS DESGUSTING

[d15z1SUX]

what is it? i never got to see the avatar
lol

[Rice_4_life]

what is it? i never got to see the avatar
lol

dont think you would want to either.

[locote]

WHAT A SICKOOOOOO.....
WHY would u want to show something like that?????

[yourfather]

if u wanna see the avatar pm me and I'll send you a link to where it's been uploaded

[locote]

just go to connections ull see plenty of it!!!!

[d15z1SUX]

ive heard many stories about that place... lol
u been there?

[locote]

lol no way hahhah..
but i think that bloke should ( or maybe he has)

[4age8u]

Back from the dead!



To keep up to a stock WRX wont take much. Just do they usual I/H/E and that should be enough. But if really want to gain alot of power, increase your displacement. Save up abit more money ontop of your 5000 and do 1.8L or 2.0L LSVTEC + ECU.

Umm no I own a stock my99 Wrx I'm on par with s2k with I/H/E

That's me stock once I put turbo back exhaust intake tune that's bye bye.. Then get rid of the tiny td04 for a vf22-23 then that's another story again

Sorry to revive an old thread but there's soo much miss info out there

[curtis265]

epic threadbump!

[NightKids]

5 year threadbump!

[tripleuse]

Back from the dead!




Umm no I own a stock my99 Wrx I'm on par with s2k with I/H/E

That's me stock once I put turbo back exhaust intake tune that's bye bye.. Then get rid of the tiny td04 for a vf22-23 then that's another story again

Sorry to revive an old thread but there's soo much miss info out there

i only have I/H/E and i beat wrxs easy, u mad 4age :)

[GSi_PSi]

EVO > WRX..

http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif
http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gifhttp://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif
one does not simply bump a 5 year old wrx thread on a honda forum without looking slightly weird and retarded

[Emnesty]

doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile - "winnings winning!"

keep up with the almighty rexxys aint gunna make you win ..

as others have said turbo the B16a and its a definate win!

(obviously if your a skilled driver and got a fckin awesome tune)!!

lol

[dnapol]

hahaah rediculous bump :P

[XB-16-AX]

Thread brought back from the DEAD.

MOD's please lock thread.












































inb4trollingspamsandbaconsandwich :p