How fast is a RX8?

[spetz]

What does a standard RX8 do over the 400m run?

I raced one with a friends B16 EG Hatch and beat one (He was clearly trying too)
But then I just watched a Topgear episode where around their track it was as quick as a M3

[yfin]

if you raced one on the track wouldn't you know the time it ran? We don't allow street racing here.

[dupac->]

it's really fast. heaps fast man didn't you know?

lol nice thread! :thumbsup:

i guess in before close?

[joey99]

I had a RX8 for a year .. and there's no way in the world a B16 would beat it in anyway ... unless he wasn't trying, was just a crap driver .. or the B16 was fully modded with a turbo on it. the RX8 is deceptively fast when you're driving it because it's so stable and so linear .... you can't even feel when you're going at 100km/h. I've also had a B16 back in the days ... and there's just no way it compares in anyway.

[spetz]

The B16 wasn't anything too special
Would be lucky to get into the 14s I'd say
But the RX8 qas genuinely into it. And I was in the Civic...
I also dragged one while I was driving a VT V6 and th RX8 was marginally quicker...

Anway, regardless to that, what do stock RX8s get on a dragstrip?

[joey99]

looks like yo have a very special B16. take special care of it :)

[Mr_will]

why dont you look up the manufacturers website?

[xtercii]

Some of the members here do mid 14s with basic bolt-on b16 in their EKs, so why can’t an EG b16 keep up or beat an rx8?

[dupac->]

coz everyone always hates on the b16's.. thumbs down to them!
IMO it's a weapon for a 1.6

[d15z1SUX]

the rx8 is a weapon for a 1.3. hahaha. but we all know its a rotary lol.

[joey99]

so you're saying a B16 with a little exhaust and intake will do under 5sec to 100km/h ?

and yes.. a rotory .. but damn good for a 1.3 .. chews up fuel like there's no tomorrow as well .. but a nice car anyhow.

[e240]

coz everyone always hates on the b16's.. thumbs down to them!
IMO it's a weapon for a 1.6

Yeah, alot of people underestimate the B16.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71218&page=2

But frankly, a B18C would have more potential for equal mods - and I think thats where most are coming from.

[|N|]

but how quick r the rx8s... i always have an impression that they not quick

[yfin]

so you're saying a B16 with a little exhaust and intake will do under 5sec to 100km/h ?

Is that what you think the RX8 does?

My Motor magazine shows

0-100 6.58
400m 14.58

[e240]

but how quick r the rx8s... i always have an impression that they not quick

They are as fast as the driver!!!

Nah, I was never under the impression that they were quick when I had the chance to drive one. I also insulted my wife's friend when I told him his car doesn't feel quick :-p

Needs a Turbo charger like the FDs and FCs of old...

[joey99]

they are fast .. 0-100 in low 5secs... just deceptively fast when you're driving it .. it's like a 350Z which is also very linear in power delivery.. they're just so stable and solidly built that you just can't tell how fast you're going until you look at the speedo. I was usually way over the speed limit without any effort at all. For a standard car .. they're incredible.

[|N|]

they are fast .. 0-100 in low 5secs... just deceptively fast when you're driving it .. it's like a 350Z which is also very linear in power delivery.. they're just so stable and solidly built that you just can't tell how fast you're going until you look at the speedo. I was usually way over the speed limit without any effort at all. For a standard car .. they're incredible.


how would u compare RX8 with dc2R since i assume u have dc2r now... and used to have rx8...

[scyt7e]

b16's can beat a rx8, i've seen it happen :thumbsup: but i dunno about driver skill though, dont think the rx8 driver was that bad....

[WhoKnowz]

my mates ek b16 beat an rx8 as well.

ive been in one before and they not that quick. 0-100 in low 5's... hmm not so sure about that one.

[ginganggooly]

What does a standard RX8 do over the 400m run?

I raced one with a friends B16 EG Hatch and beat one (He was clearly trying too)
But then I just watched a Topgear episode where around their track it was as quick as a M3

They'll do a 14.5 if the moon was in phase and the planets were in correct alignment. They're a bit of a nugget really. I was hugely disappointed when i drove it.

[joey99]

the story is .. I bought a DC2R after selling the RX8 so I could use the left over money for something else. and also to have a new project car to play with. I drove the DC2R which was totally stock for 2 weeks. I was very very dissapointed in the lack of power .. even in vtec. Handling was extremely good even compared to the RX-8 .. actually nothing really comes close to the DC2R chasis.

After looking into modding the DC2R .. the cost/power ratio was just ridiculous .. the amount of money you have to put into it to get it anywhere near a turbo car's power seemed sily to me. so after 2 weeks .. I swapped it for a WRX with 180kw atw. I just like the turbo kick in the pants feeling that the DC2R doesn't give.

so there's really no comparison from a RX8 to a DC2R .. very different machines ... the RX8 was effortless to drive and fast without really having to try. The DC2R has to work pretty hard to get going .. I didn't really feel it was the legend it was suposed to be.

[|N|]

fair enf Joey... but u also have to keep in mind that .. honda didnt design them for straight line performance ... they r there for well balanced handling.. and i think they did well in that area... well for FF anywya .. i dun think i ve driven any other FF car that handles better then a dc2r

[joey99]

ok .. sorry . the rx8 is more like 6.2 secs to 100.

and yes the DC2R was one of the most balanced cars I've ever driven .. could use about 30kws more maybe .. but t was a incredible chasis. Just not a car for everyone.

[xtercii]

they are fast .. 0-100 in low 5secs... just deceptively fast when you're driving it .. it's like a 350Z which is also very linear in power delivery.. they're just so stable and solidly built that you just can't tell how fast you're going until you look at the speedo. I was usually way over the speed limit without any effort at all. For a standard car .. they're incredible.

haha low 5 seconds? you think they are porsche or something, 177kw and 1350kg does not add up to low 5s mate...

[vti_ek9]

doesn't the rx8 hav 50/50 wieght distribution?
heard they were quick in corners too.. friend has dc2r and drove one n said it was pritty quick..n it's redline is like...9000rpm? or 8 can't remember
anywho would b interesting race around a track...rx8 vs dc2r..both cars that were made to handle

[joey99]

yes around the track would probably be a completely different story and will be very interesting to see. but I can see the RX8 running away on the straight .. and the DC2R catching it on corners and sticking to it's tail quite easily being light and cornering so well. I can see it being a very close race actually.

In normal driving conditions in traffic etc however, the RX8 is way easier to live with, alot more solid and even though it doesn't have huge torque in the low end, drivability is still much better than a DC2R in traffic conditions. The DC2R just doesnt' have anythign down low at all and there's really no chance of getting to vtec range.

Petrol wise ... the RX8 is silly .. on a full tank of about $70-80, I was luck to get 350km out of it! It just cost way too much! The DC2R was so so much better fuel economy wise .. of course unless you drive in vtec and like a maniac all the time. so in the end.. settled for a 2.0liter turbo rexy.. kinda like my old S15 which is somewhere in the middle of the both. yes I had a nicely modded S15 for 4 years before the RX8.

[vti_ek9]

wat model rexy did u get?

[joey99]

it's a 2000 clubspec evo4.. the pale yellow, I got the car with all the Apexi stuff on it already... including full turbo back N1 titanium exhaust, VF23 turbo, powerFC, avcr boost control, front mount intercooler, coilovers, front and back struts and upgraded sways. It was a straight swap with my DC2R and with 60,000kms less then the DC2R had on it's clock. well, he was happy and I was happy so it was a good deal.
http://www.jase3d.com/images/myCars/WRX_1.jpg

[vti_ek9]

nice...go the rexy's..i hav a my00 aswell...can't b more happy with it :) :) :)

[joey99]

wow cool :) NICE :) so how does that compare to your EK4 ?
I had a nicely modded EK9 vtiR with alot of mugen and spoon stuff put into it ... about .. wow about 10 years ago! they were nice cars. great handling car with spoon suspension :)
http://www.jase3d.com/images/myCars/civic2.jpg

[vti_ek9]

rexy murders the ek4 straight line
but corners the ek4 would win...probably caus i hav stock sussy on the rex
run ur car down the 1/4...c wat u get :) should b able 2 hit 12's easy

[Q_ball]

the rx8 is a weapon for a 1.3. hahaha. but we all know its a rotary lol.

Twin rotar...which basically equates to a 2.6L.

[joey99]

well even with coils, the rexy is still abit floaty and definitely not as chuckable into corners as the hondas ... but would be hard to catch out of a corner.

I'd love to go down the 1/4 soon .. doing abit more to it right now to get much more low end torque out of it.
drivability is much more important to me .. I don't care how much top end power it makes, it just needs that responsiveness that it will go when I need it to.

[|N|]

Twin rotar...which basically equates to a 2.6L.


but isnt it more like twin 0.650 = 1.3 ???

meh .. i dunnno ... i know close to nothing abt those cars

[joey99]

I had the RX8 for a year and I still don't know how the 1.3 makes that much power. I don't think I even opened the bonnet. Neverthe less, it's a good cruze car :) and very comfortable even with my 2 kids in it. Just a high quality car in everyway in my opinion.

[aaronng]

but isnt it more like twin 0.650 = 1.3 ???

meh .. i dunnno ... i know close to nothing abt those cars

Yup yup.

0.65 x 2.

People consider it 2.6L because it is a 2 stroke rather than a 4 stroke.

[yfin]

they are fast .. 0-100 in low 5secs... just deceptively fast when you're driving it .. it's like a 350Z which is also very linear in power delivery.. they're just so stable and solidly built that you just can't tell how fast you're going until you look at the speedo. I was usually way over the speed limit without any effort at all. For a standard car .. they're incredible.

Have you got a source for this claim of low 5sec? It has no correlation with any test I have ever read for the RX8 - save for an article on a custom TURBO RX8 in one of the Austrlaian magazines.

Realistically it is 14.5 to 14.8 over the 400m and 6.5 to 6.8 to 100kph.

Why do you think all the RX8 owners were complaining when the MPS3 was released? It is because the MPS3 is faster in a straight line. 5 sec is bull.

[e240]

I had the RX8 for a year and I still don't know how the 1.3 makes that much power..

It makes that much power because its an almost continuous firing cycle much like the 2 stroke (Also why the fuel consumption is high as well) unlike a four stroke...

Four Stroke
1. Compression (Upward)
2. Firing (Downard) - Power Stroke
3. Exhaust (Upward)
4. Intake (Downard)

Two Stroke
1. Compression + Intake (at the same time)
2. Firing - Power Stroke
3. Exhaust + Filling of cylinder with fresh charge...

Rotary
1. Intake + Compression + Exhaust + Power stroke all at the same time...LOL

[aaronng]

It makes that much power because its an almost continuous firing cycle much like the 2 stroke (Also why the fuel consumption is high as well) unlike a four stroke...

Four Stroke
1. Compression (Upward)
2. Firing (Downard) - Power Stroke
3. Exhaust (Upward)
4. Intake (Downard)

Two Stroke
1. Compression + Intake (at the same time)
2. Firing - Power Stroke
3. Exhaust + Filling of cylinder with fresh charge...

Rotary
1. Intake + Compression + Exhaust + Power stroke all at the same time...LOL
It's because the rotary has 3 chambers in each rotor, making it a total of 6 chambers, which have a power stroke in each cycle, making a total of 6 power strokes per revolution. In contrast, a 4-cyl has only 4 chambers and only 2 of them have power strokes during one revolution. So a rotary 3 times the number of power strokes, but pushes only twice the power because the chamber is smaller than in a piston engine.

[joey99]

fantastic explainations :)

[LO_N_SXC]

why dont you look up the manufacturers website?

Better yet Get your self to a Mazda dealer and ask to test drive one, best way I know to find out.

[JDM.Power]

meh il rather drive in a rx8, than a eg b16a/b18c

[Zilli]

ive chopped RX8's before... low 5 second???wake up to yourselves, they are a great car but they aint THAT fast

[spetz]

I was hoping people would say times that they saw RX8s do at WSID or something so I can compare it to other cars which have ran there. As I don't really like the manufacturer stats

The B16 was quick for a 1.6, as it was fully rebuilt with some mods done to it, but still it wasn't quicker than another car it raced which did 14.3 at WSID

[Da1nONLY]

ive chopped RX8's before... low 5 second???wake up to yourselves, they are a great car but they aint THAT fast


rofl.. low 5s.. thats like in the Sti/Evo Class! :)..
lets not go there with RX8 Vs a B18C7..;)
gotta shift the gears properly in a type R to notice the accelleration..
i.e. 1st gear 8.4krpm..by the time you quick shift to second..your rpm should not drop more than 7.2krpm..which is only 1.2krpm before you shift to 3rd..

[IRI]

RX8's are basically exactly the same performace Straight line/cornering drag/track etc to an S2K (so dats pretty damn slow lol). My friend has one and we can not split them, even when swapping drivers....

Just to give you a real world example...

[Zilli]

rofl.. low 5s.. thats like in the Sti/Evo Class! :)..
lets not go there with RX8 Vs a B18C7..;)
gotta shift the gears properly in a type R to notice the accelleration..
i.e. 1st gear 8.4krpm..by the time you quick shift to second..your rpm should not drop more than 7.2krpm..which is only 1.2krpm before you shift to 3rd..

you know it dude

if you know how to drive your car itll suprise u every time!

[SHIFTY]

my dads got a rx8... fast cars they are.. also handle amazingly!!! have so much stability.. although my dc2r would eat his rx8 for breakfast!!!

[ROLLED]

RX8's are basically exactly the same performace Straight line/cornering drag/track etc to an S2K (so dats pretty damn slow lol). My friend has one and we can not split them, even when swapping drivers....

Just to give you a real world example...
I Don't quite agree, I've taken my s2k '99 model against my friend's '06 rx-8 from a dig and from 100km/h+ runs and every time I pull away from him...not by a lot but the s2k is always quicker.

To give you another comparison, the RX-8 is infinitely more neutral than the s2000 (and I have an aggressive alignment too) It's so much more controllable when the back end kicks out too! I love it but they just use too much petrol 160kms from 1/2 a tank just normally driving is ridiculous :thumbdwn:

Also the engine sounds like nothing when you reach 9000rpm :thumbdwn:

[IRI]

Haha yeah s2k pobably has the tinyest edge, but I'm always afraid to brutally launch mine. I do the old let the clutch out and then floor it... If I was driving someone else's s2 I probably wouldn't have the same reservations lol. RX8's do sound quite sedate, but with a decent exhaust they start to sound like a real rotary :)

[sydteg21]

i would say, stock to stock , rx8 and dc2r pretty similar down the 1/4 mile , but rx8 will have more top end , so if it is more than 1/4 mile ,rx8 will win

[Vinnie]

i saw today in wheels that the dc2r was rated at 7.4 (or possibly 7.2) secs 0-100 so the rx-8 should win a straight drag. that said, the dc2r was designed for better things than jus running straight ahead quickly :)

[mqt55s]

that said, the dc2r was designed for better things than jus running straight ahead quickly :)

rx8 has 50-50 weight distribution for a reason

[350G]

they are fast .. 0-100 in low 5secs... just deceptively fast when you're driving it .. it's like a 350Z which is also very linear in power delivery.. they're just so stable and solidly built that you just can't tell how fast you're going until you look at the speedo. I was usually way over the speed limit without any effort at all. For a standard car .. they're incredible.

wake up..... rx8 will never did 5sec. they are not that fast as it sounds

[Samo]

Yup yup.

0.65 x 2.

People consider it 2.6L because it is a 2 stroke rather than a 4 stroke. :thumbsup:

when i had my rx7 .. the rego papers say 2.6L

[zco]

imo, the rx8 is a piece of shit.

ive raced two in my old stnadard ek4 and smacked them both. my car i ran my car and got 14.790.

so the guys that say they're fast, the rx8's i raced must have had lots of problems then.

[Omotesando]

I think having a rotary engine really is a waste of fuel.

The only advantage it has is on a track as its engine characteristic is smooth. But by far the really only advantage it has in real life is when its attached to a turbo.

Turbo + Rotary is an unbeatable combination. That linear torque, unbeatable high RPM revvability and power, smoothness, and dare I say the ability to hold up to the extra boost. Yes it wears out quicker than conventional piston engines but during the time it doesnt wear out, the chances of a mis-tune damaging the rotary is much less than with a turboed piston engine.

[xtercii]

imo, the rx8 is a piece of shit.

ive raced two in my old stnadard ek4 and smacked them both. my car i ran my car and got 14.790.

so the guys that say they're fast, the rx8's i raced must have had lots of problems then.

you are a road thug zico haha..

[fatboyz39]

there ok cars. Stop bagging them out.

[ROLLED]

imo, the rx8 is a piece of shit.

ive raced two in my old stnadard ek4 and smacked them both. my car i ran my car and got 14.790.

so the guys that say they're fast, the rx8's i raced must have had lots of problems then.

maybe you raced the Auto version? They are only 14xkw from memory, a lot less than the manual version...either that or they must not have been trying/they were crap drivers

[misteR_bilzz]

twice? my mates raced an rx8 in his h23a1 lude non vtec he just lost.

[SHIFTY]

rx8's are awesome cars.. have such a good feeling 2 them. feel so stable and they handle so well due to the 50/50 weight distribution.. the wankel (hehe wankel) engines are real nice, smooth would be awesome with a turbo or 2 on them, but then id guess that so called reliability these modern wankel rotars have would be out the window!

[Vinnie]

i get the feeling that many of the people posting here have never actually driven an rx-8 but are giving second hand recounts of 'races' that have way too many varibales to be an accurate indicator of a cars performance...

[zco]

haha well even tho dislike em, gotta admit, looks pretty damn good

[fatboyz39]

i had a chance to drag a Rx-8 on the straight at wakefield last time round. Stock rx-8 vs 110hp swift. Was pretty even the whole way down the straight, he pulled only half a car lenght for a 700m drag race.

[e240]

i had a chance to drag a Rx-8 on the straight at wakefield last time round. Stock rx-8 vs 110hp swift. Was pretty even the whole way down the straight, he pulled only half a car lenght for a 700m drag race.

No fair, you probably had a better drive out of the last corner .. hahaha :wave:

Hiaks...at the end of the day, you drive what you like...who cares if its fast or slow. Are you Happy? Thats all that matters.

If we use the quarter as a guage, there are 1 minute civics and then are sub 10 second civics...

[SHIFTY]

^ wakefield park straight.. alot of it depends on the speed u exit the last corner on....

rx-8 is also not about straight line like most honda's its about handling as well, which is seen with its 50/50 weight distribution... although can not be compared 2 a dc2r for example, iv swapped cars with my dad (rx8 is his daily car) and he loves the itr... thinks it has awesome handling... i think similar about the rx8 although it is more luxuries (more mature package)... it is a nice car, but personally i love the rawness of my itr :)

[e240]

^ wakefield park straight.. alot of it depends on the speed u exit the last corner on....

Yeah, and for Fatboyz to do the time he's doing in a 1.3, he must have been carrying alot of corner speed...Great Driving...

[ROLLED]

One thing I don't like about the rx-8 is the lack of headroom!!!!!!! my hair touches the roof and it's really annoying! (rx-8 fitted with electric seats + sunroof) same shit happens in the e46 330ci (elec seats + sunroof) ARGHHHHHHH

[mqt55s]

i had a chance to drag a Rx-8 on the straight at wakefield last time round. Stock rx-8 vs 110hp swift. Was pretty even the whole way down the straight, he pulled only half a car lenght for a 700m drag race.

haha jimmy, 110hp swift weighing jack all ! lol

[<4n'D>]

my dc2r is mildly stock - lighter fly, falken rt615, additional bracing, some exhaust work etc and i have the privilege of driving a rx8 (hard) on a regular basis. my conclusion was that the rx8 is one class above the dc2r.

rx8 is superior to the dc2r in terms of speed and stability when you drive it fast. the main reason with the dc2r is understeer (as expected) and unfortunately because of this, it just loses out a lot in terms of the speed which the car can take around corners. while dc2r handles great, it's incomparable to the rx8. the rx8 is far more stable around corners - the chassis feels more in control, and the steering is tighter and more responsive than the dc2r.

for example, around one corner using exactly the same line, i could feel understeer creeping in noticeably at 80kph in the dc2r, but the rx8 ate it up comfortably at 100kph. no, the car doesnt have that much power in the low revs, but thats not an issue when you drive it fast. unless its pretty heavily modified, the dc2r is simply not on the same level as the rx8.

and this would make sense, because the rx8 is the same class as the 350z and s2000. anyone who reckons the dc2r is faster is just kidding themselves.

[Mr_will]

why you would be using the same line for a fwd and rwd car is beyond me...

[e240]

^^^^

Yeah, I have to agree with Mr WILL, you may not be driving your DC2R correctly and it also sounds like you've setup your DC2R wrong, with all that extra bracing..

[SHIFTY]

only time when i get u understeer is in the rain.. if it is good weather (which is only time when ill be driving harder) my car will tend 2 oversteer more then understeer (have alot of rear bracing,stiffer setting at back for sussi)

and it sounds like ur talking about the street, i would say yes a rx8 faster on the street, but on the track where it counts... dc2r is faster!

[flipstar]

i slapped an rx8 as well nothing special also drove 1 feels like a nugget compared to a b20

[Omotesando]

I don't think the DC2R will be faster on the track than an RX-8.

The tighter the track the more advantage to the RWD RX-8.

Funnily enough if it has really long corners, especially uphill ones, it will also suit the RX-8 or S2000 more.

Both are easy cars to drive however. The chassis is better than its power level and neutrality.

Which one will I buy? The DC2R. IMHO I don't think the RX-8 has enough power for its chassis. Whereas any more power in the DC2R than stock it would have too much torque for a FWD to handle.

[fatboyz39]

No fair, you probably had a better drive out of the last corner .. hahaha :wave:



We had the same corner exit speed. I done the criss cross move which cost me some speed where we exit next to each other with same exit speed. Was really suprise that it didn't pull away.

Geezz there only 1.3L stop comparing ppl. There good for what they are.

[<4n'D>]

well, the corner was really tight so there weren't a whole lot of lines to take. also, my dc2r just has the rear bar and a front bar thats connected to the sussy instead of chassis so the 'setup' isn't a concern.

yes road was street/winding roads, so yes the result could be different on track. it's really up to the driver to deal with understeer then. even so, on track i'd be incredibly surprised if the dc2r posted superior times to the rx8, given advanced drivers. thats like saying that the dc2r posts similiar times to s2000/350z. i think a lot of people give the rx8 a lot less credit then it deserves.

[DUST]

B16 vs RX8 anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0u4zNetRNE

[aaronng]

B16 vs RX8 anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0u4zNetRNE

Turbo RWD in the wet anyone? :zip:

[DUST]

Both are professional drivers, the Drift King in the EG and his mate in ther RX8... That EG is a monster.

aaronng heard of Drifting?

[aaronng]

Both are professional drivers, the Drift King in the EG and his mate in ther RX8... That EG is a monster.

aaronng heard of Drifting?

I think you watched too much Initial D. They are not drifting in that vid. Heck, Tsuchiya was going "scary, scary, scary, scary", and the other driver went "dangerous!"

[SeverAMV]

i had a chance to drag a Rx-8 on the straight at wakefield last time round. Stock rx-8 vs 110hp swift. Was pretty even the whole way down the straight, he pulled only half a car lenght for a 700m drag race.

if its a swift gti, then that alone is an advantage. 110hp from a car weighing 750kg is surprisingly fast. from the factory, the old swift gti could run low 15s/high 14s with just decent tyres and nicely timed shifts.

[mqt55s]

jimmy's gti is faster than that., damn you fatboyz and your fast 1.3L under estimated car!

[fatboyz39]

if its a swift gti, then that alone is an advantage. 110hp from a car weighing 750kg is surprisingly fast. from the factory, the old swift gti could run low 15s/high 14s with just decent tyres and nicely timed shifts.

Err get the facts right. Stock swift gti runs 16sec/ 17sec down the 1/4mile.

There is only a handful of swift that does 15 sec let alone in the 14 second bracket.

Plus they don't weigh 750kg, more like 900kg.

[EuroAccord13]

I like the RX8... :D

*Gets ready to be flamed*

[fatboyz39]

jimmy's gti is faster than that., damn you fatboyz and your fast 1.3L under estimated car!

time for some head work.;)

[IZY-10]

who cares how fast they are any way they look alright.

[d15z1SUX]

swift gti's used to be a popular choice in the 90's. i used to want one in high school.

[SeverAMV]

Err get the facts right. Stock swift gti runs 16sec/ 17sec down the 1/4mile.

There is only a handful of swift that does 15 sec let alone in the 14 second bracket.

Plus they don't weigh 750kg, more like 900kg.

my facts are straight. if you dont believe me call up suzuki themselves. a mark 3 without power steering and air conditioning weighs 750-800kg. and they do run high 14s low 15s in factory. my brother owns one so i know how fast they go. BRAME's go faster.

and what are you talking about handful of swifts that do 15 second let alone 14 second. the current fastest ff on street tyres is dmw daves gti running 11.248 seconds. 2swift runs 12s, and a lot of other turbo'd swifts run 12s.

[mqt55s]

lol dont preach to fatboyz about swift gti's. if his gti can do 1.56 at EC first time out, he knows what hes talkin about.
im sure he's talkin n/a too, not 12 second turbo swifts.

[aaronng]

From Carsales.
SUZUKI SWIFT SA GTI - Kerb mass (kg) 750
Suzuki Swift GTI SF - Kerb mass (kg) 835

[Benson]

my facts are straight. if you dont believe me call up suzuki themselves. a mark 3 without power steering and air conditioning weighs 750-800kg. and they do run high 14s low 15s in factory. my brother owns one so i know how fast they go. BRAME's go faster.

and what are you talking about handful of swifts that do 15 second let alone 14 second. the current fastest ff on street tyres is dmw daves gti running 11.248 seconds. 2swift runs 12s, and a lot of other turbo'd swifts run 12s.

Lets all own swift if they are that quick. LOL

DmwDave swift is turbo charged and has the lot done to it. 30-40psi up its arse.

Stock GTi does weigh around the 750-800kg. They cant run high14's or low 15's stock. Trust me we personally have own 4 swifts already and is no way near that time bracket. You'll be lucky to hit high 15's.

You gota remeber fatboyz swift is still N/A 1.3l with the usual N/A bolt-on mods. he does really well against turbo swift. turbo swift runs mid to low 14's.

[Benson]

lol dont preach to fatboyz about swift gti's. if his gti can do 1.56 at EC first time out, he knows what hes talkin about.
im sure he's talkin n/a too, not 12 second turbo swifts.

HAha swift power. 185kph down the straight at 8100rpm in 4th. Seems like something is gonig to break at that speed. LOL

[.::F[L]Y::.]

hahaha this thread turned from RX8 to SWIFT thread....go back to redlinegti.com u swift lovers!

rx8 is nice to look at. i havnt driven one nor raced one. but i gota say they do appear slow. If it was RX8 or DC2R id pick dc2r to perform better....

[fatboyz39]

my facts are straight. if you dont believe me call up suzuki themselves. a mark 3 without power steering and air conditioning weighs 750-800kg. and they do run high 14s low 15s in factory. my brother owns one so i know how fast they go. BRAME's go faster.

and what are you talking about handful of swifts that do 15 second let alone 14 second. the current fastest ff on street tyres is dmw daves gti running 11.248 seconds. 2swift runs 12s, and a lot of other turbo'd swifts run 12s.

Ok last post from me about the swifts. Yes brame's are the limited edition one, there only abit faster. You are comparing n/a to turbo? not this again. Send me a link of a factory gti doing 15's let alone 14's.

[mqt55s]

rx8 vs dc2r? i'd say they're both pretty even.
rx8 mid to low 14's stock, and at the recent track event my mate got a 1:16(wakefield) with just coilovers. so i'd say pretty much same performance.

[aaronng]

rx8 vs dc2r? i'd say they're both pretty even.
rx8 mid to low 14's stock, and at the recent track event my mate got a 1:16(wakefield) with just coilovers. so i'd say pretty much same performance.
DC2Rs can do 1:16 without coilovers.

[SHIFTY]

rx8 is easier 2 go fast.. but not faster...

[fatboyz39]

I was suprise it did 1.16. Awesome time. that was his frist time out too i tihnk.

[aaronng]

All in all, the RX-8 has more power, a chassis that is easier to drive hard and is RWD, giving it more traction under power so you can apply throttle earlier at the apex rather than having to wait until it is almost straight.

But, all the above sounds like a good street sports car. The DC2R is the opposite. You have to work for your power, you have knife-edged steering response, the car sits flat when at 10/10 on the track and all the luxuries like climate control, sound deadening and cruise control are absent to save weight.The DC2R may not have outright speed, but it is a hell of a daily drivable track car. That was what the Type R philisophy was about. A hard edged track car that you could drive to and from the track, as well as be a daily driver.

[mqt55s]

I was suprise it did 1.16. Awesome time. that was his frist time out too i tihnk.

theres more in it. semi's, swaybars and correct damper settings.
awesome car. i'd choose it over the dc2r. luxury, looks good, stock- goes fast enough for me.

[EZZY]

fair enf Joey... but u also have to keep in mind that .. honda didnt design them for straight line performance ... they r there for well balanced handling..
so as mazda. if you want a fast straight line mazda "sports" car, dont pick the RX8.
FD RX7 would be your best friend.


doesn't the rx8 hav 50/50 wieght distribution?
heard they were quick in corners too..
yes, and yes


n it's redline is like...9000rpm? or 8 can't remember

redline at around 9250rpm.....



Petrol wise ... the RX8 is silly .. on a full tank of about $70-80, I was luck to get 350km out of it!
depends on how you drive it.... if you are lead footed, expect to visit the servo more often. alot of rx8 owners have gave up checking on the km's....


I don't think I even opened the bonnet.
right.... so you have never checked the engine oild or topping up the engine oil? :p


ive chopped RX8's before... low 5 second???wake up to yourselves, they are a great car but they aint THAT fast

wake up..... rx8 will never did 5sec. they are not that fast as it sounds
if you read joey99's later post, he has already corrected himself....


imo, the rx8 is a piece of shit.
each to their own. im sure alot of the rx8 owners would think an EK is piece of shit...


ive raced two in my old stnadard ek4 and smacked them both. my car i ran my car and got 14.790.

so the guys that say they're fast, the rx8's i raced must have had lots of problems then.
seriously, do you think the rx8 owners would even bother to "race" an ek....


i get the feeling that many of the people posting here have never actually driven an rx-8 but are giving second hand recounts of 'races' that have way too many varibales to be an accurate indicator of a cars performance...
thats exactly what i was thinking...... good call vinnie.
at the end of the day, an rx8 is pretty okay for what it is... and i still dont know why ppl would compare it with the FD RX7... they are both aimed at different markets... (rx8 = older/mature generation, rx7 = younger, wanna-go-faster generation)


One thing I don't like about the rx-8 is the lack of headroom!!!!!!! my hair touches the roof and it's really annoying! (rx-8 fitted with electric seats + sunroof) same shit happens in the e46 330ci (elec seats + sunroof) ARGHHHHHHH
unfortunately... you lose a couple of inch of head room with the sunroom.....


i slapped an rx8 as well nothing special also drove 1 feels like a nugget compared to a b20
you can not use the tech you use for a b20 to drive an rx8..... anyway, each to their own.


I like the RX8... :D

*Gets ready to be flamed*
there is nothing wrong with that....

i like hondas.


Y::.;1291014']
rx8 is nice to look at. i havnt driven one nor raced one. but i gota say they do appear slow....
thats because they dont look all that "aerodynamic" like most of other high powered sports cars :p

[silver_screen]

haha low 5 seconds? you think they are porsche or something, 177kw and 1350kg does not add up to low 5s mate...

hate to bring this up million years later.. but umm that just annoyed me a bit.. 177kw an 1350kg doesnt equal low 5's... so im assuming that 206kw and 1560kg doesnt equal sub 5's to 100 either???

On paper it doesnt look right.. but in the real world?? The gtr has 206kw, and massive weight... but clocks 100 in 4.7secs???

and b4 everyone starts with the 4wd crap and blah blah blah... the rx8 doesnt cop much wheelspin (if any) off the line. They dont do mid 5's anyway, and having driven a dc2r... i must say that handling wise.. its fkn perfect for a fwd and the rotary is a menace in the 7k rpm+ id say the dc is quicker in the long range..

[bennjamin]

on paper my car is 960kg and 141kw ~ probably gets to 100 in around 5.5 but who cares ?

Lets keep the discussion about the 1.3's.

IE the gti and RX8's lol

[yfin]

On paper it doesnt look right.. but in the real world?? The gtr has 206kw, and massive weight... but clocks 100 in 4.7secs???


You picked the wrong example. Try an example that isnt underquoting to abide with the gentlemans agreement to stick with 206kw in Japan.

The RX8 is not underquoted.

[xtercii]

seriously, do you think the rx8 owners would even bother to "race" an ek....




yes they would, they think it's gonna be an easy kill and teach the kid a lesson, then they get shitted on the face and cops a golden shower...

[xtercii]

hate to bring this up million years later.. but umm that just annoyed me a bit.. 177kw an 1350kg doesnt equal low 5's... so im assuming that 206kw and 1560kg doesnt equal sub 5's to 100 either???

On paper it doesnt look right.. but in the real world?? The gtr has 206kw, and massive weight... but clocks 100 in 4.7secs???

and b4 everyone starts with the 4wd crap and blah blah blah... the rx8 doesnt cop much wheelspin (if any) off the line. They dont do mid 5's anyway, and having driven a dc2r... i must say that handling wise.. its fkn perfect for a fwd and the rotary is a menace in the 7k rpm+ id say the dc is quicker in the long range..

Yes as yfin said gtr is under quoted on power, and more important you can launch these thing at 7000 or even 8000 and it just sling shots off the line, something which the rx8 can never do.

[silver_screen]

an eg wouldnt beat an rx8.. the power difference is too great, eg's dont rev hard or high enough, and neither does an ek.. a DC2R would be an appropiate sparring partner for straight line performance.. they both do 0-100 in the mid to low 6's eg's take forever and eks take even longer

[d15z1SUX]

your talking about gli eg's and ek's arent you?

[dundas]

a h22a in a ek would do alright though :d

[IRI]

At the end of the day, an RX8 is a sports car, and a civic is a shopping trolley...

[aaronng]

At the end of the day, an RX8 is a sports car, and a civic is a shopping trolley...

Last I checked, the Civic could carry 5 people in addition to your groceries over a range of over 400km. Doesn't sound like a shopping trolley to me.

[silver_screen]

your talking about gli eg's and ek's arent you?

no.. no im not... those take even longer and i wouldnt even bother mentioning them against any car..

[d15z1SUX]

an ek isnt that much slower than a type r i thought? dc2r does 0 - 400m in mid 14's to high 14's. ek vtir does the quarter in low 15's? so that would translate to a low 7 second 0 - 100kph?

[Barge Ass]

RX7 was aimed at Porsche, whilst RX8 at Integras, 200SX's etc

[BlitZ]

It makes that much power because its an almost continuous firing cycle much like the 2 stroke (Also why the fuel consumption is high as well) unlike a four stroke...

Four Stroke
1. Compression (Upward)
2. Firing (Downard) - Power Stroke
3. Exhaust (Upward)
4. Intake (Downard)

Two Stroke
1. Compression + Intake (at the same time)
2. Firing - Power Stroke
3. Exhaust + Filling of cylinder with fresh charge...

Rotary
1. Intake + Compression + Exhaust + Power stroke all at the same time...LOL


ahahh and also
Rotary
2. round and round and not up and down

[IRI]

Last I checked, the Civic could carry 5 people in addition to your groceries over a range of over 400km. Doesn't sound like a shopping trolley to me.

That sounds exactly like a shopping trolley:wave:

[Omotesando]

EK VTiR do the 0-400m around 7.7 to 7.8s.

Nothing to brag about. I have driven the EK4s completely stock and modded. EK4 stock is slow as. If you don't launch it properly it'll do around 8.0s (timed using accelerometer). Very underpowered stock EKs it feels like its not moving.

Mod it however it turns into a beast. Even with I/H/E it feels much faster especially at higher revs. Very good rolling speed but at the same time, still a very ordinary launching speed. A stock Lancer 1.8L will still beat a modded EK4 time after time, yet, race on a roll and the EK would kill the lancer by miles. Just different torque distribution curve really.

Anyway, stock RX-8s are definitely much faster than stock EKs but against modded EK, I would say RX-8 launches better but rolling start, both similar enough.

By the way like YFIN said the GTRs are always underquoted. And even if it wasn't, it has AWD launch plus Turbo. Turbo torque distribution means it has more area under the curve so even if both cars were 206KW, the one with more torque will always accelerate faster. 2ndly AWD gives it better 0-60ft time so again it goes faster again.

Not sure if ppl realise but a 5s 0-100km/h FWD vs a 5s 0-100km/h RWD vs a 5s 0-100km/h AWD will actually still have speed differences. It depends how much distance they need to obtain 0-100km/h. So if you think the 0-100km/h is all that matters then pls remember, i.e. an AWD at 6.0s probably sounds slow but it will actually still beat most other 5.5 or 5.8s 0-100km/h cars. Rolling start is another matter but if you race from the lights at drag strip the time shown and who reaches line first will differ.

Anyway, the RX-8s are OVER-QUOTED. Had a lawsuit and recall in the US due to that matter lol.

[aaronng]

That sounds exactly like a shopping trolley:wave:

Wow, the M5 is a shopping trolley too! :eek:

[EZZY]

RX7 was aimed at Porsche, whilst RX8 at Integras, 200SX's etc

right... now i have heard everything..... :rolleyes:

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_101161/title_Mazda-RX8/article.html

The RX-8 doesn’t seem to have any direct competitors. The 350Z in Australia seems to be it’s rival, but the Nissan accepts only 2 people, has less storage space and has a strong 3.5 litre engine. Price tag is similar, starting at $59,990.

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/print.aspx?TabID=801391&R=ce5121&ModID=1602845

COMPETITORShttp://editorial.carsales.com.au/carcontent/blueline.gif
Direct competition? None. No other vehicle offers four door, four seat versatility in a high performance sports coupe body for under $60,000. However, there are cars which do supply similar in-cabin versatility and scintillating performance.

The base-model Mazda RX-8 Holden Monaro CV8 is one, BMW 325Ci is another, though performance on the price competitive 320Ci is not strong. Consider also the Honda S2000, Audi A4, Lexus IS200 and Nissan 350Z, which match some of the RX-8's abilities, but not all. Consider also the Subaru Impreza WRX in high performance STi form, though its links to the basic $20,000 Imprezas harm any prestige aspirations.

Possibly the most logical cmpetitor is the Subaru Liberty GT, scheduled for Australian launch in September 2003. It has similar performance from its turbocharged 2.0-litre engine, though it is all-wheel drive and has a more conventional sedan body. Tough choice that one.

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/pgto.htm

At the end of the day, the Pontiac GTO looks like a car that would sell extremely well in Australia, but as it stands, Holden only plans on exporting them for the über-lucrative American markets. Direct competitors to the GTO will be BMWs 3 Series, the Chrysler Crossfire, Mazda RX8, Nissan 350Z, Ford Mustang GT, and Dodge's new Charger.

[silver_screen]

rotary is a 4 stroke engine u clown and no it doesnt do them all at the same time. it operates every 1/3 of a crank turn. so 3 full crank turns = 1 rotary turn (both rotors)

a 4 cyl is 1/4 each.. so every 1/4 of the crank turn, theres a power stroke. 6 cyl is obviously 1/6 and 8's r 1/8, hence y theres no much that will idle as smooth as an 8 (when left stock ofcourse)

the reason the rotor so much power compared to pistons is because 1.. they dont lose any power to friction from going up and down and turnin cams and all that bullshit. 2nd they take in more air due to its volumetrics and because of this, they drink more fuel (hence the not so good economy) and when turbo charged, u take advantage of it all and get massive gains like 800kw 2lt engines... ridiculous... but like i said b4.. rx8 is great stock against civics, but against an itr or 200sx... thats where the bullshit stops and everyone walks away from the rx8.. its a soft sports car compared with what its up against

[Muzz]

a 4 cyl is 1/4 each.. so every 1/4 of the crank turn, theres a power stroke. 6 cyl is obviously 1/6 and 8's r 1/8, hence y theres no much that will idle as smooth as an 8 (when left stock ofcourse)

Incorrect, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder = 2 power strokes per revolution, not 4.
4 stroke, 6 cyl = 3 power strokes/revolution
4 stroke 8 cyl = 4 power strokes/revolution

Each cylinder has 1 power stroke every 2 revs.

[IRI]

Wow, the M5 is a shopping trolley too! :eek:

roflcopter. i think ur missing the point. An RX8 was made ground up to be a fun sports car. A civic was made to do exactly what you said "carry 5 people (more like 4 realistically) get the groceries and get 400km out of tank". the 'sports car' (vtir type r whatever) civic were made as an after thought. Honda can turn a 'shopping trolley' (;)) into a well balanced sports better then anybody, but comparing these two cars (civic and rx8) is totally ridiculous.

[boosted_andy]

and u guys gotta realise ur asking a honda forum if a mazda rx8 can beat a honda blah blah blah, doesnt matter how good rx8's are the majority of people will say hondas are the best because its a honda enthusiasts forum etc etc etc ....
i reckon rx8s are tops =) but the most legendary mazda are the s8 rx7s imo. shits over any honda

[Vinnie]

EK VTiR do the 0-400m around 7.7 to 7.8s.


:eek::eek::eek: lol


at the end of the day the rx-8 is prob faster in a straight line than a dc2r but i dont see the prob with that... the rx-8 is a newer model but was not designed to have the track focus the dc2r has, jus depends what ppl want in a car :)

also, i rekon if u posted this thread on a mazda forum theyde get a great laugh out of overrating their hondas straight line speed (above quote not included) :p

[90LAN]

and u guys gotta realise ur asking a honda forum if a mazda rx8 can beat a honda blah blah blah, doesnt matter how good rx8's are the majority of people will say hondas are the best because its a honda enthusiasts forum etc etc etc ....
i reckon rx8s are tops =) but the most legendary mazda are the s8 rx7s imo. shits over any honda

what about a nsx-r ???? it wouldnt just shit all over it but flush it down the toilet too
if a 10k shopping trolley can beat a sports car worth 60k
wouldnt the 60k sports car driver be piss off ????

[EZZY]

what about a nsx-r ???? it wouldnt just shit all over it but flush it down the toilet too

RX8 and NSX-R are different cars aimed at different markets.
why dont you compare the NSX-R to say a Porsche GT3?



if a 10k shopping trolley can beat a sports car worth 60k
wouldnt the 60k sports car driver be piss off ????
maybe when i was younger, but not anymore. at the end of the day, it is still a 10k shopping trolly car. you'd find the majority of the rx8 owners have a "spare" shopping trolly car thats worth more than 10k :angel:

[90LAN]

RX8 and NSX-R are different cars aimed at different markets.
why dont you compare the NSX-R to say a Porsche GT3?



maybe when i was younger, but not anymore. at the end of the day, it is still a 10k shopping trolly car. you'd find the majority of the rx8 owners have a "spare" shopping trolly car thats worth more than 10k :angel:

please read what boosted andy has said .................
why dont u watch best motoring videos ????????
why do rx8 owners say that the rx8 is slow and it needs a turbo charger added ??????
funny after paying 60 k for a sports car and rx8 owners still say it is slow
hmmmmmm.......

[EZZY]

why do rx8 owners say that the rx8 is slow and it needs a turbo charger added ??????
funny after paying 60 k for a sports car and rx8 owners still say it is slow
hmmmmmm.......

because some of tehm have realised that they have made a 60k mistake. :p

i dont think the RX8 is slow by any means, and i never have wanted to add a turbocharger onto it, even though i have been offered a "deal" a couple of yeras ago.

you'd find these are "younger gen" ppl who bought the car for its looks and thought he/she could "get used to" the performance, and not knowing how to drive the thing properly. :thumbdwn:

RX8 is a luxury sports car (if you can call that...) and in most cases, it does not have a direct competitor......

same question abck to you.... why do these DC2-R ppl modding their engines to get more power... ;)

[90LAN]

same question abck to you.... why do these DC2-R ppl modding their engines to get more power... ;)[/QUOTE]

becos they they have still have 40k to spend with their 60k they didnt spend on a rx8!!!!! lol

[EZZY]

becos they they have still have 40k to spend with their 60k they didnt spend on a rx8!!!!! lol

you missed my point... we are not talking about the price of the car here, its all about the choice of the car.....

it isnt too much to spend 60k on a car nowadays.

[Omotesando]

:eek::eek::eek: lol


at the end of the day the rx-8 is prob faster in a straight line than a dc2r but i dont see the prob with that... the rx-8 is a newer model but was not designed to have the track focus the dc2r has, jus depends what ppl want in a car :)

also, i rekon if u posted this thread on a mazda forum theyde get a great laugh out of overrating their hondas straight line speed (above quote not included) :p

Haha. sorry about the type there.
Should read 0-100kph in 7.7-78s.:wave:

[.::F[L]Y::.]

heres a clip i found of the RX8 in action.

quote from the old guy driving the S2 ' the rx8 is slow' LOL

http://www.gtchannel.com/content.php?cid=5764

[e240]

give me the car...I'll drive it fast... :p

[mqt55s]

this thread getting repetitive.
to sum up the last 12 pages: honda civic will beat most cars bar porsche's, m power bmw's, lambo's etc.

[Omotesando]

Well not surprised Tsukuba is not the track for the RX-8. A bit too long of a straight! Also on other Best Motoring Vids the RX-8s do better not sure why either. Wonder what tyres the cars use.

Funny how in J-land they all think the S2000 is the best cornering machine but in Aust the media says its too nervous at the limit. Not sure why. Too many question marks.

The Skyline looks impressive nevertheless.

[d15z1SUX]

s2000 is good in the right hands. i think alot of the motoring journos in australia arent exactly pro drivers.

the facelifted s2000 is meant to be more forgiving with its handling due to the response to the pre facelift s2000.

[OMG.JAI xD]

rotary isnt a perfected engine system.

rumours ive heard of tests that try to make diesel turbocharged rotary and hyrbid rotary.
i asked a 40yr old mechanic (old tafe teacher) about this concept and he straight away got to thinking about the diesel rotary.

and he stated that, a diesel turbocharged diesel, will eventually have a balance of economy, hp and brute torque.

rotary will soon take over.
more compact, equal in performance, less maintenance, no timing problems.
i wudnt mind a honda rotary. with some new vtec technology .. bt i dont know how thats gonna work since rotarys dont use camshafts -.-"
honda rotary ftw.
then you can say.. thats a type-R .. :D
scchwweeet

[aaronng]

Well not surprised Tsukuba is not the track for the RX-8. A bit too long of a straight! Also on other Best Motoring Vids the RX-8s do better not sure why either. Wonder what tyres the cars use.

Funny how in J-land they all think the S2000 is the best cornering machine but in Aust the media says its too nervous at the limit. Not sure why. Too many question marks.

The Skyline looks impressive nevertheless.

Tsukuba's straight too long? LOL. It's not long at all.

BTW, you have to remember, it is the AP1 that is nervous at the limit. The AP2 is less. But I have a Best Motoring video showing the difference at the limit between an AP2 and the 350Z. It is a very big difference and what Tsuchiya said, at the limit in a 350Z, you are only 8/10ths committed. In an AP2, you are 10/10ths committed. If he can say that about the AP2, imagine the AP1! :)

[aaronng]

rotary isnt a perfected engine system.

rumours ive heard of tests that try to make diesel turbocharged rotary and hyrbid rotary.
i asked a 40yr old mechanic (old tafe teacher) about this concept and he straight away got to thinking about the diesel rotary.

and he stated that, a diesel turbocharged diesel, will eventually have a balance of economy, hp and brute torque.

rotary will soon take over.
more compact, equal in performance, less maintenance, no timing problems.
i wudnt mind a honda rotary. with some new vtec technology .. bt i dont know how thats gonna work since rotarys dont use camshafts -.-"
honda rotary ftw.
then you can say.. thats a type-R .. :D
scchwweeet
If you said a rotary engine with VTEC, then unfortunately we cannot take you seriously. :)

[mqt55s]

becos they they have still have 40k to spend with their 60k they didnt spend on a rx8!!!!! lol

dc2r was 40k new.
rx8 is 60k with luxuries.20k difference. 20k in luxuries doesnt seem all that much to me, considering how much packages/accesories/options cost from dealers.

if honda had those options for the dc2r (leather seats, sound deadening, bose sound system, 18's etc) im sure it'd be close to 60k as well.

they bother perform pretty much the same, tho one more raw(itr), the other refined(rx8).
the cars are aimed at different markets. any1 been to an rx8 cruise? counted how many ppl under 30? now who's been to an OH cruise and counted how many are on p plates?

whoever saying that an rx8 is slow, would also be saying that the itr is slow.
keep an open mind ppl, makes for a better discussion.

[90LAN]

well u dont know your dc2 type r's becos they were never a luxury car they were built with f1 technolgy for weekend track orientated car
20 grand in extras u would be a sucker to pay that much
rx8 is a good car but paying 60k u want a car that goes faster then a claimed 6.2 sec 0-100km




dc2r was 40k new.
rx8 is 60k with luxuries.20k difference. 20k in luxuries doesnt seem all that much to me, considering how much packages/accesories/options cost from dealers.

if honda had those options for the dc2r (leather seats, sound deadening, bose sound system, 18's etc) im sure it'd be close to 60k as well.

they bother perform pretty much the same, tho one more raw(itr), the other refined(rx8).
the cars are aimed at different markets. any1 been to an rx8 cruise? counted how many ppl under 30? now who's been to an OH cruise and counted how many are on p plates?

whoever saying that an rx8 is slow, would also be saying that the itr is slow.
keep an open mind ppl, makes for a better discussion.

[mqt55s]

well u dont know your dc2 type r's becos they were never a luxury car they were built with f1 technolgy for weekend track orientated car
20 grand in extras u would be a sucker to pay that much
rx8 is a good car but paying 60k u want a car that goes faster then a claimed 6.2 sec 0-100km


please highlight where i said the dc2r was a luxury car. i said the rx8 was a luxury car with sports performance.
i said a dc2r is a sports car with no luxuries, performing the same as an rx8. the 20k difference is somewhat justified in the extra's you get.

"paying 60k u want a car that goes faster then a claimed 6.2 sec 0-100km"
http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/specs.php?key=HOND03BM
s2000 rrp 75k, 0-100 ~6s
get off honda's dick. as i said before, keep an open mind, makes for better discussions.

[PaZzMaN-R]

for what the rx8 its an awesome car. no one can argue that fact.
someone mentioned above that the rotary engine is less maintenance BAHHH!

anyways rx8 has the best steering i have ever felt. its an awesome chasis. i however dont like the engine (in stock form) tuned might be another story. i feel that the time shown for the rx8 is good considering its weight. my father has the rx8 and myself a dc2r when we gave it once rolling start i gave up before the end of 2nd because it was over (all done under the speed limit) was an unfair test as because of variable factors. feel wise though the dc2r feels quicker.

i think the rx8 is a harder car to drive fast in a straight line hence all the smokage stories.

[90LAN]

funny coming from a pulsar guy
wonder what a rx8 would cost with a drop top ???
80k plus 20 k in luxuries lol
i would rather buy a mazda 6 mps or a mazda 3 mps than a rx8



please highlight where i said the dc2r was a luxury car. i said the rx8 was a luxury car with sports performance.
i said a dc2r is a sports car with no luxuries, performing the same as an rx8. the 20k difference is somewhat justified in the extra's you get.

"paying 60k u want a car that goes faster then a claimed 6.2 sec 0-100km"
http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au/vehicle/specs.php?key=HOND03BM
s2000 rrp 75k, 0-100 ~6s
get off honda's dick. as i said before, keep an open mind, makes for better discussions.

[mqt55s]

i dont understand why it would be funny coming from "a pulsar guy".

oh and an rx8 is 50k, not 60,000, so only 10k extra than a dc2r new.

so a car that has about the same performance, with more luxuries for an extra 10k...i dunno where all the rx8 hate is coming from, they're good cars. great comfort for everyday driving, and can still give "weekend track orientated car with f1 technolgy" a good battle out on the track.

[90LAN]

i dont understand why it would be funny coming from "a pulsar guy".

oh and an rx8 is 50k, not 60,000, so only 10k extra than a dc2r new.

so a car that has about the same performance, with more luxuries for an extra 10k...i dunno where all the rx8 hate is coming from, they're good cars. great comfort for everyday driving, and can still give "weekend track orientated car with f1 technolgy" a good battle out on the track.

becos the luxury sports car got beaten by a cheap shopping trolley powered by a lawn mower motor civic thats all
its not a bad car but it needs a turbo charger to make it more special
i think mazda has to do it soon as all its other cars have turbo's (mps series)

[OMG.JAI xD]

If you said a rotary engine with VTEC, then unfortunately we cannot take you seriously. :)

lol i said vtec technology..i know u can NEVER put vtec n rotary together.
manz who knows, japs will think of something lol -.-"
bt meh .. honda rotary wud b nice.

xD

[aaronng]

lol i said vtec technology..i know u can NEVER put vtec n rotary together.
manz who knows, japs will think of something lol -.-"
bt meh .. honda rotary wud b nice.

xD

VTEC works if an engine has camshafts or valves. Too bad the rotary doesn't have either of them. That's why it can't work.

[PaZzMaN-R]

i dont understand why it would be funny coming from "a pulsar guy".

oh and an rx8 is 50k, not 60,000, so only 10k extra than a dc2r new.

so a car that has about the same performance, with more luxuries for an extra 10k...i dunno where all the rx8 hate is coming from, they're good cars. great comfort for everyday driving, and can still give "weekend track orientated car with f1 technolgy" a good battle out on the track.

i also dont understand all the rx8 hate either. they to focused on hondas being the best and are only shutting it down. only because they know its better. so what if one or two civics beat the rx8 chances are there was an old guy who cant drive behind the wheel.

each car has their strengths and weaknesses otherwise we may as well all be buying white corollas. im not going to continue reading this as everyone cant think outside honda and acknowledge a good car when they see one.

[d15z1SUX]

they are all good cars with different focuses. n they are all above average. it all comes down to the driver's preferences on which car they prefer.

[fatboyz39]

This thread is sad. Both cars are awesome. Stop comparing ek4, EG aganist them. If you havn't driven both then don't judge.

[EZZY]

becos the luxury sports car got beaten by a cheap shopping trolley powered by a lawn mower motor civic thats all
its not a bad car but it needs a turbo charger to make it more special
i think mazda has to do it soon as all its other cars have turbo's (mps series)

:rolleyes:
guess you will never understand if you have never driven one properly/owning one.....

would you think if mazda wanted a turbocharged rx8, they would've recycled the 13BTT from the FD series.....

the RX8 was aimed at the older generation buyers, and they would an old fart want a "fast" luxury sprots car?

[tank]

i dont understand why it would be funny coming from "a pulsar guy".

oh and an rx8 is 50k, not 60,000, so only 10k extra than a dc2r new.

so a car that has about the same performance, with more luxuries for an extra 10k...i dunno where all the rx8 hate is coming from, they're good cars. great comfort for everyday driving, and can still give "weekend track orientated car with f1 technolgy" a good battle out on the track.

So, which part of the RX-8 has F1 technology??? The renesis rotary engine??? I hope not because all F1 engines are piston.

Mazda doesn't even have a F1 team.

[EZZY]

So, which part of the RX-8 has F1 technology??? The renesis rotary engine??? I hope not because all F1 engines are piston.

Mazda doesn't even have a F1 team.

that f1 technology comment was meant for a DC2R....... (read a few posts back and you will see)

[mqt55s]

that f1 technology comment was meant for a DC2R....... (read a few posts back and you will see)

indeed. people getting attacked left, right and centre on this forum lol. hot chicks thread ftw.

neways, back on topic, only downfall with the rx8 i'd have to say is the atrocious fuel consumption. although being a 1.3l, its categorized in the 2.6L class isnt it? well it still drinks way more petty than a 6 cylinder. closer to a v8. damn harsh on the bank account lol.

but i love how smooth they are. can barely tell its on when its idling. would probably be due to the rotors spinning in one direction vs pistons rapid change in direction.

i'd be interesting to hear from people who have actually driven an rx8 and a honda itr/s2k.

[tank]

that f1 technology comment was meant for a DC2R....... (read a few posts back and you will see)

Thanks for the clarification.

I got so confused when I read that sentence, because someone was saying that a RX8 can match the DC2r on the track.

Stock for stock, a well driven DC2r is very hard to beat on any race tracks in NSW.

[SeverAMV]

So, which part of the RX-8 has F1 technology??? The renesis rotary engine??? I hope not because all F1 engines are piston.

Mazda doesn't even have a F1 team.

Mazda used to be in the 24 hours Le Mans races, but their rotary engine was deemed to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too fast when their quad rotor won, so the europeans banned the rotary from the Le Mans races.
GTR was also deemed too fast for races in some countries and were also banned from certain races.
but you dont see vtec being banned...
not everyone needs a formula 1 team to be successful. subaru built their fame on rallying, and they net more sales than honda last time i checked. nissan dont do f1 and they aint doin half bad. mitsubishi too.

anyway, not dissing either. rotaries are good engines, and efficient power-wise, but they lack low down torque without a supercharger/turbocharger.

there were attempts to turbocharge the rx-8, i believe there was an RX-8 turbo model by mazdaspeed. was projected at 250kw.

reason why people wouldnt normally compare a honda with the rx-8 is because the rx-8 is a GT car, most honda's are not, with the s2000 and nsx being the only exceptions. anyone can argue with me as much as they want with this point, but a requirement of the GT car requires that the car be rear wheel drive.

rotaries dont really need vtec, because they aren't inefficient enough to need something as such to make it more efficient - power-wise that is. mazda stuck on extra exhaust ports and the power just went up to 177kw for the renesis, which isnt too bad. aside from that, mazda claimed that it was relatively unchanged from the old 13b non turbos. can anyone say that honda could do such a minimal change and gain a big boost? with just an exhaust system alone? because thats what mazda did.

as to the motor part. as the rx8 completes 3 cycles with one revolution, the motor rotates at a third of the rate claimed on your tacho. so when you hit 9000rpm, your rotors are spinning at 3000rpm.
whereas with a piston motor, 8000rpm is 8000rpm. theres a difference in efficiency right there. less moving parts in rotary = more efficient too.

anyway... *ducks out to avoid further flaming*

[aaronng]

but you dont see vtec being banned...
not everyone needs a formula 1 team to be successful. subaru built their fame on rallying, and they net more sales than honda last time i checked. nissan dont do f1 and they aint doin half bad. mitsubishi too.
VTEC is not used in LeMans, Formula1 or JGTC.



rotaries dont really need vtec, because they aren't inefficient enough to need something as such to make it more efficient - power-wise that is. mazda stuck on extra exhaust ports and the power just went up to 177kw for the renesis, which isnt too bad. aside from that, mazda claimed that it was relatively unchanged from the old 13b non turbos. can anyone say that honda could do such a minimal change and gain a big boost? with just an exhaust system alone? because thats what mazda did.
Rotaries CAN'T use vtec because rotaries DO NOT have cams and valves.
The Renesis has side ports, so the ports can be bigger. The old 13B has ports on the peripheral (the curved wall). Also, the old-13B had 2 intake ports and 1 exhaust port. The Renesis has 2 intake and 2 exhaust. Sounds similar? Compare the power outputs of the old 3 valve D series (68kW) with the modern 2000 4-valve non-VTEC D-series (88kW). That's a big jump in power of 29&#37;!



as to the motor part. as the rx8 completes 3 cycles with one revolution, the motor rotates at a third of the rate claimed on your tacho. so when you hit 9000rpm, your rotors are spinning at 3000rpm.
whereas with a piston motor, 8000rpm is 8000rpm. theres a difference in efficiency right there. less moving parts in rotary = more efficient too.

False, at 9000rpm, your crank is rotating 9000 times a minute.
Edit: Calculation mistake. 9000 combustions per minute per rotor, so that's 18000 combustions per minute at 9000 crank rpm. That is 4 times more than a 4-cyl piston engine. That's why a rotary drinks more fuel.

[SeverAMV]

False, at 9000rpm, your crank is rotating 9000 times a minute.

actually, surprisingly it isnt for the rotary motor. each rotor is rotating at 3000rpm when the tacho reads 9000rpm. it has 9000 combustions per minute, which is 18000 combustions per minute for a twin rotor. if it had 54000 combustions per minute, it would chug thru a tank in like 30 minutes.

i said that rotaries dont need vtec because they arent inefficient enough to need something as such to make it more efficient, wasnt referring to vtec alone, was saying it doesnt need something to alter how much air-fuel mixture goes in to boost power.

as for the power jump, was talking about the top end of the performance motor scale, but touche~

[aaronng]

actually, surprisingly it isnt for the rotary motor. each rotor is rotating at 3000rpm when the tacho reads 9000rpm. it has 9000 combustions per minute, which is 18000 combustions per minute for a twin rotor. if it had 54000 combustions per minute, it would chug thru a tank in like 30 minutes.

i said that rotaries dont need vtec because they arent inefficient enough to need something as such to make it more efficient, wasnt referring to vtec alone, was saying it doesnt need something to alter how much air-fuel mixture goes in to boost power.

as for the power jump, was talking about the top end of the performance motor scale, but touche~
LOL, calculation error on my part on the 54000 combustions. :) yes, the rotor spins at 3000rpm, but does 9000 orbitals per minute.

Well, Honda never released a 3-valve B series that I can use for comparison purposes. The next one down is the 1966 S800 2 valve per cylinder engine I guess....

[mqt55s]

would say having 3 ports for intake/exhaust give a performance boost.
and to maybe implement some kind of system to block of a port in the lower revs i.e run on 2 ports for intake/exhaust in lower revs/economy and 3 ports for more power?
variable port electronic control. VPEC just kicked in yo?

[d15z1SUX]

that would be a good idea. like variable port size. like it can open up during hard driving then you have a aggresive race port engine when u open the throttle up. i don't really know what im talking about. is it possible? haha.

[aaronng]

would say having 3 ports for intake/exhaust give a performance boost.
and to maybe implement some kind of system to block of a port in the lower revs i.e run on 2 ports for intake/exhaust in lower revs/economy and 3 ports for more power?
variable port electronic control. VPEC just kicked in yo?

According to wiki, Mazda's 1965 10A rotary supposedly had something similar. It had 2 intake ports, one of which was closed at low loads.

[silver_screen]

Incorrect, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder = 2 power strokes per revolution, not 4.
4 stroke, 6 cyl = 3 power strokes/revolution
4 stroke 8 cyl = 4 power strokes/revolution

Each cylinder has 1 power stroke every 2 revs.


im actually 100% correct.

[Vinnie]

can we leave out the 'f1 technology' argument... the brochure for my accord claimed it has nsx technology jus coz it has vtec :p

[Muzz]

im actually 100&#37; correct.
Incorrect again.



a 4 cyl is 1/4 each.. so every 1/4 of the crank turn, theres a power stroke.

What you are saying here, is that a 4 stroke 4 cylinder has 4 power strokes per revolution.

You could directly translate that to each cylinder having a power stroke in one complete revolution, correct??

So let me ask you this.
If all the cylinders fire within one revolution, do all 4 cylinders fire again the next revolution, or does each alternate revolution have no power strokes??

See whats wrong here?
Your saying each cylinder has a 180 degree power stroke within every 360 degrees of rotation:zip:

Intake, compression, power, exhaust, 4 strokes, 4 strokes which add up to 720 degrease rotation.

It takes 2 rotations of the crank for each cylinder to have a SINGLE power stroke. Agree????

So if all 4 cylinders fire in one rotation, then there must be no power strokes the next rotation, as each cylinder needs 2 full rotations to complete a power stroke.
^^Is this what you are trying to say:zip:

0 degrease
cyl 1, power stroke
cyl 2, intake stroke
cyl 3, exhaust stroke
cyl 4, compression stroke

180 degrease
cyl 1, exhaust stroke
cyl 2, compression stroke
cyl 3, intake stroke
cyl 4, power stroke

360 degrease
cyl 1, intake stroke
cyl 2, power stroke
cyl 3, compression stroke
cyl 4, exhaust stroke

540 degrease
cyl 1, compression stroke
cyl 2, exhaust stroke
cyl 3, power stroke
cyl 4, intake stroke

720 degrease, Back to the start:
cyl 1, power stroke
cyl 2, intake stroke
cyl 3, exhaust stroke
cyl 4, compression stroke

As you can plainly see, there arnt 4 power strokes per rotation. There are 4 power strokes per 2 revolutions, which means there are 2 power strokes per revolution:thumbsup:

Still dissagree??

[mqt55s]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hhc6xM0wjKQ

[Muzz]

Nice one:thumbsup:
However, he shouldnt need that, he build engines for a living :/
Scary huh..

[TGZ80Y]

rx8 are slow lol jks

eg6 ftw hehhheheh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0u4zNetRNE

old but nice clip

[todaek9]

Both are good cars...but one takes more fuel than the other...thats all...

[Omotesando]

Tsukuba's straight too long? LOL. It's not long at all.

BTW, you have to remember, it is the AP1 that is nervous at the limit. The AP2 is less. But I have a Best Motoring video showing the difference at the limit between an AP2 and the 350Z. It is a very big difference and what Tsuchiya said, at the limit in a 350Z, you are only 8/10ths committed. In an AP2, you are 10/10ths committed. If he can say that about the AP2, imagine the AP1! :)

Ummmmm that Tsukuba straight doesn't look long? Take a look here http://www.jasc.or.jp/outline/index.html . It is a 433 metres long straight and is one part of the circuit where faster straight line cars always have a chance to overtake the slower ones.

I also don't agree that the AP1 has such a big difference with the AP2 although obviously AP2 is slightly less nervous. My point was, even when the Japs were driving the AP1 they already unanimously gave it the vote as a top driver's machine with great at-the-limit control ability whereas the local journos bagged it for being too nervous and twitchy. The way I look at it is however, even if the S2000 is twitchy at the limit it actually won't bite like an MR2. Its twitchiness is its advantage because the top drivers can extract the most out of it!



And what hasn't been mentioned yet?

Mazda are actually trying to make Hydrogen rotaries out of the RX-8 platform. Well they already have. So I fail to understand the philosophy behind it as yet, because if rotaries really aren't that fuel efficient then aren't they putting too much effort into the wrong system to showcase their environmental products?

[aaronng]

Ummmmm that Tsukuba straight doesn't look long? Take a look here http://www.jasc.or.jp/outline/index.html . It is a 433 metres long straight and is one part of the circuit where faster straight line cars always have a chance to overtake the slower ones.

I also don't agree that the AP1 has such a big difference with the AP2 although obviously AP2 is slightly less nervous. My point was, even when the Japs were driving the AP1 they already unanimously gave it the vote as a top driver's machine with great at-the-limit control ability whereas the local journos bagged it for being too nervous and twitchy. The way I look at it is however, even if the S2000 is twitchy at the limit it actually won't bite like an MR2. Its twitchiness is its advantage because the top drivers can extract the most out of it!

433m is SHORT. You know our favourite Wakefield Park raceway? It's considered a short and tight track. Even so, the main straight is 900m long! Yes, more than TWICE as long as Tsukuba!

The reason why the S2000 is twitchy at the limit even with a suspension revision in AP2 is because of its 50:50 weight distribution. Without electronics to help it, of course it is prone to spinning at the limit. Same case as the MR2, which has it worse because of the rear bias in weight distribution. Being twitchy doesn't mean that you can extract better handling/grip out of it. It means you have less of a buffer to catch it before it spins.


Mazda are actually trying to make Hydrogen rotaries out of the RX-8 platform. Well they already have. So I fail to understand the philosophy behind it as yet, because if rotaries really aren't that fuel efficient then aren't they putting too much effort into the wrong system to showcase their environmental products?
THREE reasons. First, hydrogen is a renewable resource and you can use more of it without getting a slap on the wrist from environmentalists. Second, they were showcasing that the Renesis did not require many modifications to use hydrogen as a fuel, as compared to a piston engine. Third, if they made a hydrogen Mazda2, Mazda3 or Mazda6, it would just be labelled as a greenie car. Using an RX-8 it shows that people can have performance while saving the environment (having your cake and eating it :)).

[todaek9]

Now i really start to wonder, where did you get your facts from...are you in that field? or you're just stating your opinion???...i'm just curious thats all...

[aaronng]

Now i really start to wonder, where did you get your facts from...are you in that field? or you're just stating your opinion???...i'm just curious thats all...

Read the press releases :) Also, being a chemical engineer helps with fuel/oil details.

Here is the press release on the hydrogen Renesis, if you are interested. http://www.mazdausamedia.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=18623

[Omotesando]

Well Wakefield does have a long straight but that doesn't necessarily make the Tsukuba straight short. Wakefield is tight and twisty at the back but that's not to say it doesnt carry a long straight. Granted the Tsukuba straight is not extremely long but it does already give two cars that are usually very similar enough in straight line performance, the chance to pass the car infront.

As for "Being twitchy doesn't mean that you can extract better handling/grip out of it. It means you have less of a buffer to catch it before it spins."

Well I disagree entirely because the first part of that sentence and the second part do not agree with each other.

Perhaps instead of saying twitchy I should have used the word Agility. I agree that you have less buffer to catch it before it spins, but one must consider that during the transition from 8/10ths to 9 and 10/10ths limit of a car's track ability, that transitional phrase is when additional seconds can be reduced from the circuit time. Hence cars such as S2000, MR-2s and M3s can be driven on the limit but will spit back at you if you are not capable enough to handle them. However, cars like the 350Z are easier at the limit and turns to understeer unless you provoke it to oversteer first. In fact the E46 M3 is similar enough to the 350Z compared to the older versions. They are safer, but ultimately, won't be as fast on the track for a professional driver driving a more agile car.

[e240]

Bump for more "Who's bigger" posts...:angel:

[EZZY]

size matters

[Zilli]

So, which part of the RX-8 has F1 technology??? The renesis rotary engine??? I hope not because all F1 engines are piston.

Mazda doesn't even have a F1 team.

No but they had a Le mans team...

[PP Sports sedan]

Look the rx8 should have had a turbo from the get go ... it`s not exactly a lightweight car so it`s not going to be fast with a N/A engine . 180 hp @ wheels .if you`re lucky

[EZZY]

Look the rx8 should have had a turbo from the get go ... it`s not exactly a lightweight car so it`s not going to be fast with a N/A engine . 180 hp @ wheels .if you`re lucky

dude, abit late with your suggestion.... the rx8 was aimed at a different market

the "most" at the wheel dyno i have seen from a "stock" rx8 is about 125kw-ish....

[didz]

rx8's would be prtty quick. everyone saying they 'beat' them with ek's and b16's. when you say 'beat' what do you mean? What is 'beat'? is it gettin infront by a few metres then just calling it? or is it going full stick on a strip to see who's quicker? or is it even going full stick somewhere else because i would bet that an rx8 would have better top end than a b16.

[PP Sports sedan]

dude, abit late with your suggestion.... the rx8 was aimed at a different market

the "most" at the wheel dyno i have seen from a "stock" rx8 is about 125kw-ish....

work out what 180 hp is in kw ...lol
as for a different market ....??? its a sports car . thanks for your input though :wave:
as a circuit car they work well as the weight split is 50/50 front rear ..doesn`t get any better than that . they handle very well but they lack in the go dept .. 1 more rotor should fix that ,

[EZZY]

work out what 180 hp is in kw ...lol

i know what 180hp is in kw.... and a stock rx8 doesnt not have that much at the wheels.



as for a different market ....??? its a sports car . thanks for your input though :wave:
same thing can be said for DC2R, Lancer MR coupe, Porsche Cayman S.... theya re all sports cars, but aimed at different markets.




s a circuit car they work well as the weight split is 50/50 front rear ..doesn`t get any better than that . they handle very well but they lack in the go dept .. 1 more rotor should fix that ,
for those who can not drive it properly, it can be a slow car...... i'd suggest a FI option would fix that... but then again, why not just get a FD instead :angel::wave:

[Pumped]

http://webpages.acs.ttu.edu/charshey/pics/ThisThreadSucks.jpg

[[[d a n n y]]]

a slightly modded Dc2R will take on a rx-8
stock engine to stock engine a B16a will have no chance.

[PP Sports sedan]

i know what 180hp is in kw.... and a stock rx8 doesnt not have that much at the wheels.


same thing can be said for DC2R, Lancer MR coupe, Porsche Cayman S.... theya re all sports cars, but aimed at different markets.



for those who can not drive it properly, it can be a slow car...... i'd suggest a FI option would fix that... but then again, why not just get a FD instead :angel::wave:

i thought this thread was about if a rx8 was fast , no car will be fast if an idiot is driving it ... and seriously if you think that a Dc2r , or a lancer mrcoupe, are sports cars ...you truely have never driven a true sports car . Now a s2000 thats a sports car .My mistake i meant hp not hp at the wheels , hp figures are always at the engine when spoken about factory vehicles ... so 180 isnt far off at all ..
the rx8 will have a better power plant soon , as for fc`s they`re old tech for a new car and the engine`s are nothing alike ,apart from being a rotary ....this is something i know about seeing as i race a rotary sports sedan , and have been both racing them and driving them for 19 years this year in fact ...my god i`m old ...lol ....lets just leave it at that .

[PP Sports sedan]

http://webpages.acs.ttu.edu/charshey/pics/ThisThreadSucks.jpg

i agree its just going to turn into a shitfight ... it should probably be locked now .

[Zilli]

i thought this thread was about if a rx8 was fast , no car will be fast if an idiot is driving it ... and seriously if you think that a Dc2r , or a lancer mrcoupe, are sports cars ...you truely have never driven a true sports car . Now a s2000 thats a sports car .My mistake i meant hp not hp at the wheels , hp figures are always at the engine when spoken about factory vehicles ... so 180 isnt far off at all ..
the rx8 will have a better power plant soon , as for fc`s they`re old tech for a new car and the engine`s are nothing alike ,apart from being a rotary ....this is something i know about seeing as i race a rotary sports sedan , and have been both racing them and driving them for 19 years this year in fact ...my god i`m old ...lol ....lets just leave it at that .

I take it PP stands for Peripheral Port, if so, care to share some pics mate? i love rotors

[PP Sports sedan]

I take it PP stands for Peripheral Port, if so, care to share some pics mate? i love rotors

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1302905#post1302905
:wave:

[EZZY]

i thought this thread was about if a rx8 was fast , no car will be fast if an idiot is driving it ...
yes, and yes :thumbsup:


and seriously if you think that a Dc2r , or a lancer mrcoupe, are sports cars ...you truely have never driven a true sports car .
no, you are missing the point....
in your previous post you made the different market and sports cars comments.... believe it or not... DC2R and lancer MR coupe were once "called" sports cars when first released... (damn marketing ppl.....) :angel:



the rx8 will have a better power plant soon ,
hope so.... "they" have been talking about a potential 15B power plant for that last what..... 2 years :p

[PP Sports sedan]

True and that will be a benifit for all rotary drivers , i`d like to have a pp 15a in my car thats for sure . although i was hoping for some more cubes either a new 20b twin rotor or a new model 20b tripple ..... we live in hope i guess...:p

[Zilli]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1302905#post1302905
:wave:

DAMMIT rx3 sedan, exactly what i want to build someday! got any clips of it by any chance?

[connorling]

u can compare only to the engine, like how much energy it loss during the tranmission from the engine to the wheels, also think about the weight, EG is lighter, and think about the arrangement of the car, like EG is FF and RX8 is FR, RX8 has a better balance, and once again, everyone knows RX8 is rotary engine, 1.3 rotary is like 4L straight engine. comparing these two like comparing eating noodles and reading books, it just doesnt make sense.

[BlitZ]

jimmy's gti is faster than that., damn you fatboyz and your fast 1.3L under estimated car!

hahah i was waiting for this.. Jimmy's 1.3ltr is a rotor.. ahhaha..

[BlitZ]

Why would you want PP... eheheheh I rather exend or bridge port turbos.. heheeheh

It aint a motor if it aint a rotor..

the wankel engine was desgined for planes as there are less moving components and should theoretically be more reliable.. rotors are relaibale from factory but once you mod them they dont have a good track record of making the distance. Rotors will make more power per dollar than a 4 stroker turbo anyday... just that it might not start on the first click.


I ran a rx8 the other day on a private road.. Its pretty damn quick.. Racing stopped at about 100km/ph though (traffic fench ahead) and dc2r won.

[Limbo]

the only prob i have with the rx8 is that it drinks oil like crazy.
I'd prob forget to pour oil and then the engine would seize.

can't understand how you can build a new engine that sucks oil

[aowwllan]

coz everyone always hates on the b16's.. thumbs down to them!
IMO it's a weapon for a 1.6

PRICE DIFFERENCE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rx8 we talking abt here LOL! b16 is good for what it is.

[Vinnie]

wonder how quick the '2.6l' version is :confused::zip:

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/MAZDA/RX8/details.aspx?__sid=115F3A28F2BD&Cr=0&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCo unt_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&State=All%20States&distance=25&silo=1003&seot=0&__Nne=20&__N=4294965340+0+399+834+285+257&R=1854481&PriceMin=50000&Make=MAZDA&state_id=0&trecs=6

[connorling]

i think the seller of the "" 2.6L rotary "" doesnt know sh!t. 2 cylinders 1.3 means 2*0.65L, u cant get that big rotary.. however in 2009, there will be a new RX8 version 2 with 1.6 rotary engine, is all new decide.. (read that from Speed). there is no such thing as 2.6L rotary... WTF

[BlitZ]

i think the seller of the "" 2.6L rotary "" doesnt know sh!t. 2 cylinders 1.3 means 2*0.65L, u cant get that big rotary.. however in 2009, there will be a new RX8 version 2 with 1.6 rotary engine, is all new decide.. (read that from Speed). there is no such thing as 2.6L rotary... WTF

don't be a hater..

I think some queen st had one. Think Pac can build them
************************************************** *************

Quad rotor 26B

R26B

The most prominent 4-rotor engine from Mazda was used exclusively for various Mazda-built GT cars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touring_car_racing) (including the 767 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_767) and 787B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_787B)) in replacement of the older 13J (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Wankel_engine#13J). In 1991 this engine in a 787B became the first from outside the U.S. or Western Europe and the first (and so far only) car with a rotary engine to win outright the 24 hours of Le Mans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_hours_of_Le_Mans) race. It displaced 2622 cc and built 700 hp (522 kW) at 9000RPM. The engine design originates as a single 13B with: an additional rotor and housing added at each end, continually variable geometry intakes, and an additional (third) spark plug. The R26B's rotor housing can be purchased at retail from Mazdaspeed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazdaspeed), but no internal parts are available to the general public.

[BlitZ]

quoted for the haters :
another take :


actually this is correct. each face of the rotor has 654cc and there are 2 rotors, so thats 1.3liters. every time the rotors go all the way around, the drive shaft goes around 3 times, thus every revolution of the crankshaft has 1.3 liters of displacement fired. However in piston engines, it takes 2 rotations of the crankshaft for all the displacement to fire, thus you take the displacement of two revolutions of the driveshaft in the rotary, which is 2.6liters.

[bennjamin]

thats the rule when it comes to the RTA etc and engine conversions , also in licensing etc. But technically a 13b for example still only has 1.3 liters :)

[fatboyz39]

hahah i was waiting for this.. Jimmy's 1.3ltr is a rotor.. ahhaha..

LOL noo my secrets out:eek::eek:.

I was talking to a rx-8 onwer at the track, bigggest downfall tracking the rx-8 is petrol. he said its like 1km track = 1litre... :eek::eek::eek:

[aaronng]

LOL noo my secrets out:eek::eek:.

I was talking to a rx-8 onwer at the track, bigggest downfall tracking the rx-8 is petrol. he said its like 1km track = 1litre... :eek::eek::eek:

Not true, Euro77 has an RX-8 and goes to Winton regularly. He says he sees just above 30L/100km. Your 100L/100km figure is close to a Bugatti Veyron's 112L/100km consumption when trying for 400+km/h top speed!

[fatboyz39]

Not true, Euro77 has an RX-8 and goes to Winton regularly. He says he sees just above 30L/100km. Your 100L/100km figure is close to a Bugatti Veyron's 112L/100km consumption when trying for 400+km/h top speed!

Those were the figures that guy told me. He has tested this a few times and yeah pretty close to 1l per 1km. 30L/100km? Doesn't type R get those mileage at the track....

[aaronng]

Those were the figures that guy told me. He has tested this a few times and yeah pretty close to 1l per 1km. 30L/100km? Doesn't type R get those mileage at the track....

Yup, same as the Type R. We'll be going to winton next week, so I'll calculate his consumption on the track myself.

Edit: Just checked the RX-8 forums, yes, it's 30-32L/100km during their track days here in Aus.

[ginganggooly]

Edit: Just checked the RX-8 forums, yes, it's 30-32L/100km during their track days here in Aus.

And 29.9l/100km in daily driving ;)

[aaronng]

And 29.9l/100km in daily driving ;)

They get a best of 10L/100km in pure highway cruising at 100-110km/h. That's crazy. Even a 6.0L SS does less than that on the highway...

Was reading through and they usually get about 400-500km out of a tank on the highway. In comparison, my Euro gets over 800km out of a tank when I did Sydney to Melb.

[dsp26]

and seriously if you think that a Dc2r , or a lancer mrcoupe, are sports cars ...you truely have never driven a true sports car .

thats probably true.. but a more accepted definition of a "Sports Car" is MR layout which most of the exotics are anyway... SW20 MR2 yes... MR2 spyder... no...

Thats why all jap 2 door 'performance car's will always be called that or 'Sports Coupe' coz of chassis design... even HSV V8 supercars aren't called sports cars... the awd performance cars are generally rally orientated... or in the case of the liberty B4s.. a 'sports sedan'

***EDIT***
oh and GTRs are still considered a sports coupe.

Sports Car is an inappropriately overused term similar to saying you have the flu when you have a cold or fever..

THEREFORE.. RX8 is a sporty car but it aint no sports car

[aaronng]

In my opinion, sports cars are cars that sacrifice something practical in exchange for more speed, handling and/or grip.

So yes, RX-8 does qualify as much as an S2000 does.

[dsp26]

In my opinion, sports cars are cars that sacrifice something practical in exchange for more speed, handling and/or grip.

So yes, RX-8 does qualify as much as an S2000 does.

i can sorta see where your coming from but if i was too use an EG/EK for example and make said sacrifice.. at the end of the day its still a sporty hatch... or in todays lingo.. "Hot Hatch"?

Their just sports orientated... had you said NSX.. then.. yeah...

[dsp26]

just for kicks (coz of validity of wiki):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

but it does agree with your point regarding s2k
:p lol

***EDIT***
fEk!! surprisingly that article was quite informative

[aaronng]

i can sorta see where your coming from but if i was too use an EG/EK for example and make said sacrifice.. at the end of the day its still a sporty hatch... or in todays lingo.. "Hot Hatch"?

Their just sports orientated... had you said NSX.. then.. yeah...

To me, the standard EG and EK (VTIR included) are sporty hatches and not sports cars. But when you put a B18C into them, remove A/C and/or for weight reduction, then yes, I consider them sports cars.

[e240]

To me, the standard EG and EK (VTIR included) are sporty hatches and not sports cars. .

My EG is a shopping trolley... :o

[flypig]

My EG is a shopping trolley... :o

Haha, yeah a fast shopping trolley with plenty of room (back seats removed);)

[ginganggooly]

They get a best of 10L/100km in pure highway cruising at 100-110km/h. That's crazy. Even a 6.0L SS does less than that on the highway...

Was reading through and they usually get about 400-500km out of a tank on the highway. In comparison, my Euro gets over 800km out of a tank when I did Sydney to Melb.


For fark's sake. I know sarcasm doesn't travel well through written mediums... but i still didn't think anyone would take 29.9l/100km as a serious attempt at statistic recital. Not even you.:thumbsup:

[aaronng]

30L/100km is a realistic fuel consumption figure these days. ;)
BTW, I have a slight sense of humour, but I have zero sense of sarcasm.

[Ray_mon]

VTEC is not used in LeMans, Formula1 or JGTC.

Are you telling me, the NSX in the JGTC have their vtec turned off?

If so, thats something i learnt today.

[aaronng]

Are you telling me, the NSX in the JGTC have their vtec turned off?

If so, thats something i learnt today.

Not even turned off. It's totally removed!

[BlitZ]

In my opinion, sports cars are cars that sacrifice something practical in exchange for more speed, handling and/or grip.

So yes, RX-8 does qualify as much as an S2000 does.

sacrificing 2 back door for the kids ehehehe kidding

[BlitZ]

Are you telling me, the NSX in the JGTC have their vtec turned off?

If so, thats something i learnt today.

race cars dont run vtec... vtec is only for street cars

[350G]

rx8 is slow

[sretocz]

rx8 is slow

that pretty much sums it all up

[Vinnie]

so is a dc2r is a straight line ;)

[Da1nONLY]

so is a dc2r is a straight line ;)

BUT...faster than a RX8 :p

[350G]

but TypeR is cheaper and more reliable =)

[Vinnie]

BUT...faster than a RX8 :p

figures ive got for the rx-8 are 6.6 sec 0-100 and 14.6 sec quarter. only figures i remeber seeing for the dc2r put it at about 7.2 sec 0-100. i think its a fair comment that in a straight line the rx-8 is prob still faster, it just gets spanked on the track :)

[|N|]

Are you telling me, the NSX in the JGTC have their vtec turned off?

If so, thats something i learnt today.

lol...y need low cam when they can just run on hi cam all day?

[Vinnie]

'vtec turned off'?

am i the only person that thinks he was being sarcastic? ;) lol

[|N|]

'vtec turned off'?

am i the only person that thinks he was being sarcastic? ;) lol

either that ... or someone needs to know what is VTEC

[bennjamin]

'vtec turned off'?

am i the only person that thinks he was being sarcastic? ;) lol

well - the actual thing is any cars in that particular racing scene or any cars with "VTEC KILLER CAMS" etc are essentially running "TEC" ( no V because it isnt varible. Its constant like a normal camshaft profile

[e240]

well - the actual thing is any cars in that particular racing scene or any cars with "VTEC KILLER CAMS" etc are essentially running "TEC" ( no V because it isnt varible. Its constant like a normal camshaft profile

Sorry buddy, the other way round. The timing is still variable, just no Lift control, which is the EC (Electronic Lift Control).

*Edit - Actually, could be the whole thing. the VTEC mechanisim (Specifically the Variable Valve timing doesn't alter the Cam position like Mivecs, rather some have Phased low cam lobes, open the intake valves in sequence at low cam mode

Anywayz... VTEC simply put is the mechanism to run both a high lift cam and a standard (lower lift) cam. As you know, high lift cams are difficult to drive at lower rpms, this allows driveability in a road car, but in a race car which lives at high revs, the low lift cam just becomes dead weight.

VTEC is nothing special in a Race engine...hence its not needed.

[todaek9]

don't talk so much..bring your car to the strip and see it for yourself...whats the point of talking so much here...

[e240]

don't talk so much..bring your car to the strip and see it for yourself...whats the point of talking so much here...

There's nothing wrong in having a simple conversation like this. You don't have to participate if you have nothing constructive to say.

[BlitZ]

don't talk so much..bring your car to the strip and see it for yourself...whats the point of talking so much here...

good point.. lets all run high comp and crazy non vtec cams to see if its true.

[todaek9]

Why not you take your Vtec (or with your killer cams) and drag mine?
My point is that...why is there so much comparison? just do it and stop assuming...I think all of us would wanna know the results...


There's nothing wrong in having a simple conversation like this. You don't have to participate if you have nothing constructive to say.

[todaek9]

One thing, you seem very experience in VTEC...I really wonder how well you did in yours, or you just read from the book...but if you did very well, like there is some hidden secret to make your's somemore special than others, please do show me some trick up your sleeves...Cause i'm very curious bout it as well...



As you know, high lift cams are difficult to drive at lower rpms, this allows driveability in a road car, but in a race car which lives at high revs, the low lift cam just becomes dead weight.

VTEC is nothing special in a Race engine...hence its not needed.

[ginganggooly]

One thing, you seem very experience in VTEC...I really wonder how well you did in yours, or you just read from the book...but if you did very well, like there is some hidden secret to make your's somemore special than others, please do show me some trick up your sleeves...Cause i'm very curious bout it as well...

Clear as mud mate.
I see what everyone else is getting at here, bar yourself.

So you don't believe that cams with large, long duration lobes can exist without vtec, or is it something else that confuses you?

[e240]

Buddy, you need to calm down and re-read the point of my post, coupled with the post by Ben. My post was never about a comparison rather it was a clarification on the Technology.

As for how well I did in mine, I'll leave it to you to do a simple search and find out. There's no secret there.

As for what i run in my car, I basically have a street car, hence I run with the VTEC mechanism. However, as to my point, if I were running a Track car, I would definately seriously consider running just high profile cams as revs hardly ever fall below 7000rpm (unless a mistake is made) - There are many advantages to doing this.

In regards to this thread, its just people comparing and exchanging knowledge. Even if its pointless (and they need to take it down to the track), its not harming anyone. You need to chill and maybe join in constructively.

Finally, if you still want to run me, I'll oblige at any of the three tracks around. There's a circuit club day at wakefield coming up in December.


Why not you take your Vtec (or with your killer cams) and drag mine?
My point is that...why is there so much comparison? just do it and stop assuming...I think all of us would wanna know the results...


One thing, you seem very experience in VTEC...I really wonder how well you did in yours, or you just read from the book...but if you did very well, like there is some hidden secret to make your's somemore special than others, please do show me some trick up your sleeves...Cause i'm very curious bout it as well...

[ennavoli]

Buddy, you need to calm down and re-read the point of my post, coupled with the post by Ben. My post was never about a comparison rather it was a clarification on the Technology.

As for how well I did in mine, I'll leave it to you to do a simple search and find out. There's no secret there.

As for what i run in my car, I basically have a street car, hence I run with the VTEC mechanism. However, as to my point, if I were running a Track car, I would definately seriously consider running just high profile cams as revs hardly ever fall below 7000rpm (unless a mistake is made) - There are many advantages to doing this.

In regards to this thread, its just people comparing and exchanging knowledge. Even if its pointless (and they need to take it down to the track), its not harming anyone. You need to chill and maybe join in constructively.

Finally, if you still want to run me, I'll oblige at any of the three tracks around. There's a circuit club day at wakefield coming up in December.

^^ Agree.

However, when I track, for me the most used RPM range (during cornering) is between 5k-7k+ (depending on how narrow the corner is). Do you also always keep your RPM above 7K when cornering?

[e240]

^^ Agree.

However, when I track, for me the most used RPM range (during cornering) is between 5k-7k+ (depending on how narrow the corner is). Do you also always keep your RPM above 7K when cornering?

Well, at least above 6000rpm for my car and setup.

I try and keep the engine as much as possible in the powerband, and it really depends from engine to engine, and driver to driver.

Anyway, I think we've strayed way off topic so that try and bring this back to "How fast is an RX8".. :-p

[rotalution]

What does a standard RX8 do over the 400m run?

I raced one with a friends B16 EG Hatch and beat one (He was clearly trying too)
But then I just watched a Topgear episode where around their track it was as quick as a M3


You pretty much answer your own question dude, u asked how fast it does on a straight line, and how the B16 can beat it .. or indicate it has close performance figures.... then you compare its performance around a TRACK which consist of corners and NOT JUST STRAIHT LINE against a M3 and indicate it as fast as a M3 on a track ... what does that mean to ?

I think that clearly tells me its not so fast on a straight line but the car's overall cornering and balance can matach a M3 time around track ?

those that just worry about straight line speed.. dont buy a rx8.... get a rocket...

[VT1-R]

RX8 is not that whole lot faster than a B16. Definitely faster on paper but every1 claims the 0-100km to be faster than it is actually tested. Ha.

2 ways B16 stands a chance is:

1.) Good I/H/E, HD Clutch,flywheel,JUN/TODA racing cams,valve spring etc, Power FC+gd tune.. B16a in an EG/EF maybe a Stripped EK will keep up with a RX8 that is pretty stock. Might on might not win depend on how noob the RX8driver is.

2.) B16a with I/H/E, HD clutch and flywheel, NO ECU.
Might only keep up with an AUTOMATIC RX8.

Dont underestimate a B16. No torque but there's sure gd top end ready to put up a gd fight.

[aaronng]

RX8 is not that whole lot faster than a B16. Definitely faster on paper but every1 claims the 0-100km to be faster than it is actually tested. Ha.

2 ways B16 stands a chance is:

1.) Good I/H/E, HD Clutch,flywheel,JUN/TODA racing cams,valve spring etc, Power FC+gd tune.. B16a in an EG/EF maybe a Stripped EK will keep up with a RX8 that is pretty stock. Might on might not win depend on how noob the RX8driver is.
So it takes a pretty extensively modded EG b16a just to keep up with a stock RX-8. Ok... so that means Stock RX-8 > Stock EG B16a (AUDM, if you consider engine swapping as stock).



2.) B16a with I/H/E, HD clutch and flywheel, NO ECU.
Might only keep up with an AUTOMATIC RX8.
Pretty sad considering a fully bolt-on equipped B16a just keeps up with an auto RX-8 which is already slower than an Euro, which is a slow car.

[90LAN]

RX8 is not that whole lot faster than a B16. Definitely faster on paper but every1 claims the 0-100km to be faster than it is actually tested. Ha.

2 ways B16 stands a chance is:

1.) Good I/H/E, HD Clutch,flywheel,JUN/TODA racing cams,valve spring etc, Power FC+gd tune.. B16a in an EG/EF maybe a Stripped EK will keep up with a RX8 that is pretty stock. Might on might not win depend on how noob the RX8driver is.

2.) B16a with I/H/E, HD clutch and flywheel, NO ECU.
Might only keep up with an AUTOMATIC RX8.

Dont underestimate a B16. No torque but there's sure gd top end ready to put up a gd fight.



your dreaming mate!!!! u have a ek which is heavier so that mite be your expriences
a rx8 does around 6.6 sec 0-100 AUTO 7.5 sec
eg b16a does around 7 sec 0-100
ALL STOCK

so he has a eg 1050 kg car with 125kw
rx8 1600 kg with 177kw

go figure mate

i have a eg with a b16 and some of those mods u mention and lets just say easy !!! ......... FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL

[SeverAMV]

your dreaming mate!!!! u have a ek which is heavier so that mite be your expriences
a rx8 does around 6.6 sec 0-100 AUTO 7.5 sec
eg b16a does around 7 sec 0-100
ALL STOCK

so he has a eg 1050 kg car with 125kw
rx8 1600 kg with 177kw

go figure mate

i have a eg with a b16 and some of those mods u mention and lets just say easy !!! ......... FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL

dude... rx8 weighs 1340kg. its a rotary, not a shitty8. rx8 auto is slower because it makes less power, so the 0-100 time is slightly worse.
plus, the main difference in acceleration can be attributed to gear ratios. rx8 gear ratios are designed for efficiency in mind and low rev cruising (altho rotary and efficiency dont mix), ie. first gear redlines 70-80, second gear 110-ish, third at 150-160-ish. compare that with a civic, first redlines around 50-60, second around 85-100, third around 130-ish. shorter ratio = faster acceleration due to retaining more power on upshifts. if you want to compare them more directly, have the rx8 launch in first and the civic in second, then the comparisons would be slightly more relevant.

rotary motors are also more efficient in that more of their power gets to the wheels. a stock b16a jdm spec might produce 125kw at the motor, but it produces like 80fwkw (correct me if im wrong), where as the rotary puts around 110-130rwkw (correct me if im wrong again). these are going by the dyno results people seem to put online. factor in weight and the power to weight of the rotary is still slightly better.

in the end, the answer to the question of this topic depends on the definition of fast. are we comparing straight line or track time? stock or tuned? feeling or records on paper?

[90LAN]

oh well carrying less weight and still goes slower than a eg with i/h/e
but the thread is about a EG WITH A B16 BEATING A RX8!!!!
doesnt matter what else bullshit u come up with
thats the fact ........
TAKE IT FROM SOME ONE THAT KNOWS
ps mate i was replying to VTIR that his claims were not correct
thats all if u read that part





dude... rx8 weighs 1340kg. its a rotary, not a shitty8. rx8 auto is slower because it makes less power, so the 0-100 time is slightly worse.
plus, the main difference in acceleration can be attributed to gear ratios. rx8 gear ratios are designed for efficiency in mind and low rev cruising (altho rotary and efficiency dont mix), ie. first gear redlines 70-80, second gear 110-ish, third at 150-160-ish. compare that with a civic, first redlines around 50-60, second around 85-100, third around 130-ish. shorter ratio = faster acceleration due to retaining more power on upshifts. if you want to compare them more directly, have the rx8 launch in first and the civic in second, then the comparisons would be slightly more relevant.

rotary motors are also more efficient in that more of their power gets to the wheels. a stock b16a jdm spec might produce 125kw at the motor, but it produces like 80fwkw (correct me if im wrong), where as the rotary puts around 110-130rwkw (correct me if im wrong again). these are going by the dyno results people seem to put online. factor in weight and the power to weight of the rotary is still slightly better.

in the end, the answer to the question of this topic depends on the definition of fast. are we comparing straight line or track time? stock or tuned? feeling or records on paper?

[SeverAMV]

oh well carrying less weight and still goes slower than a eg with i/h/e
but the thread is about a EG WITH A B16 BEATING A RX8!!!!
doesnt matter what else bullshit u come up with
thats the fact ........
TAKE IT FROM SOME ONE THAT KNOWS
ps mate i was replying to VTIR that his claims were not correct
thats all if u read that part

im not making up bullshit. you're trying to compare a stock rx8 with a tuned civic. thats like comparing a stocko ferrari with a 1000hp gtr, its a stupid comparison.