Cammed Motors Specs + DYNO Graph Mandatory

[dsp26]

As per title and my post here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1718343&postcount=53

DO NOT POST IF YOU HAVE NO DYNOGRAPH TO GO WITH IT!!!
Bits below highlighted in Red are mandatory prior to posting.

Purpose of this thread is to give NA modders a better insight into tackling the head as it is where you'd go first... no-one here should be concerned with numbers but the sole purpose is POWERBAND. Peak hp at a cetain powerband is pointless as that depends on your tuner and dyno... the curve tells all!!

Must be in shootout mode or SAE corrected + 4th gear preferablt with rpm at the x-axis instead of km/h
Stock heads are welcome especially if you have dialled camgears.

Engine -
Displacement -
Bore -
Stroke -
CR -
Camshaft -
Camgear Settings -
VTEC X-Over -
Gearbox -
I/H/E -
ECU -

Please do not molest this thread with stupid questions, it should be a referable thread for the others.. can the n00bs please read all of this first and not bombard this with crap:
http://www.ek9.org/forum/resource-area/137-vtec-camshafts-specs-comparison-honda-b-series-engines.html


***EDIT***
Please also include VTEC x-over if you know it :)

keep em coming!!!



CATALOGUE - Post #s


OEM B16A2 - #42
OEM B16A2/B20B - #
JDM B18C - #250
JDM B18C - #396
OEM B18C2 - #404
OEM ITR B18C7 - #3
OEM ITR B18C7 - #51
OEM ITR B18C7 - #362
OEM ITR B20Vtec - #81
OEM B20Vtec - #11
Buddy Club Spec III+ B16A2 - #84
Buddy Club Spec III+ B16A2 - #239
Buddy Club Spec III+ B16A2 - #239
Buddy Club Spec III+ B18C7 - #316
Buddy Club Spec III+ B18C7 - #392
Buddy Club Spec III+ B20Vtec - #81
Rocket M22x B20Vtec - #26
Rocket M22x B20? Block / B18c7 Head - #289
Skunk2 Pro1 B16A2 - #6
Skunk2 Pro3 B18C7 - #368
Toda Spec C B16A2 - #297
Toda Spec C B18C7 - #16
Toda Spec C B18C7 (Turbo) - #17
Toda Spec D Int, C2 Exh B18C2 Block / B16A2 Head - #18
Toda Spec D Int, C2 Exh B18C7 Block / B18C2 P72 Head - #275

OEM H22A (Type S) - #359

JDM K20A - #245
OEM K20A2 - #28
OEM K24A3 - #2
OEM K24A3 - #14
OEM K24A3 - #39
Buddy Club Spec 3 JDM K20A - #57
Toda Spec C K20A2 - #338
Toda Spec F K20A2 - #15
Toda Spec ? K20A2 - #318

[EG5]

Engine - K24A3 ( Accord Euro Motor )
Displacement - 2.4
Bore -87
Stroke - 99
CR -10.5
Camshaft - Stock K24A3 cams
Camgear Settings - 50 degree VTC ( stock is 25 degree VTC)
Gearbox - DC5R y2m3 . 4.7 FD . LSD
I/H/E - JDMYARD IM + 80mm TB / JDMyard 4-2-1 header / 3 inch exhaust


* RPM reading is abit off , REV limit is set at 7600 rpm.
http://www.jdmyard.com/jdmyard_2006/images/egk24a/6.jpg

[bennjamin]

Engine - B18C7
Displacement: 1797 cc
Compression: 11:1
Bore: 81 mm
Stroke: 87.2 mm
Camshaft - standard
Camgear Settings - standard timing
Gearbox standard 4.7 FD
I/H/E - JDM 4-1 (standard JDM DC2R)

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7430/dyno1ya4.jpg

[EG5]

Isn't he meaning post results with upgraded cams?Not stock?

I got upgraded VTC
Accord euro k24a are running 25 degree
mine is 50 degree from DC5R

Remove it if you want

[DNYALL]

Stock heads are welcome especially if you have dialled camgears.


would be good to see comparisons between worked and stock heads.

[kraiye]

i know my post doesn't quite meet the requirements but i just don't know a couple details... and i WILL edit post with my graph (tuned by John at HiPower) - as soon as i can bloody find it ;)

Engine - b16a2 (125kW)
Displacement -
Bore -
Stroke -
CR - was told about 12:1 but i'm doubtful
Camshaft - Skunk2 Pro1
Camgear Settings - again not sure but been told they're a bit out
Gearbox - stock EM1 box
I/H/E - J’s Carbon Fiber whale penis, 5Zigen 4-2-1 Headers, Full Spoon Exhaust

other useful info...
skunk2 gears, springs, retainers, intake
CTR pistons
ITR Throttle Body
AEM Fuel Rail
420cc injectors
Hondata S300

delete if u like but hope this helps :)


[edit] Found it :) ...

http://users.tpg.com.au/azzag/images/civic/EMdyno_800.jpg


any suggestions ?

bit sus that afr isn't shown... hmmm!!!

[delsol9000rpms]

dnt forget to write your cross over points

[CRXer]

any suggestions ?


My suggestion..........

Enjoy......thats a nice looking curve for a B16A

[Benson]

get them to give you a a/f graph and the torque graph

[kraiye]

was only a couple months ago, would it still be on their records to print out or would i have to dyno it again?

[ZeForce]

Engine - B20VTEC
Displacement - 1973cc
Bore - 84mm
Stroke - 89mm
CR - 10.1
Camshaft - Stock VTiR
Camgear Settings - 0,0
VTEC X-Over - 4200rpm
Gearbox - B16a
I/H/E - Blox IM + 64mm TB + SRI / Hytech / 2.5" Custom
ECU - ProECU

Lots of midrange torque with the VTiR cams..... dunno why ppl are so quick to swap them out for larger specced cams when they have low compression

http://a719.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/42/l_ff3044c8c06d1ee502e27df1c3f54d26.jpg

[kraiye]

dam! thats the straightest graph i even seen!
any reason why they ran it in 3rd?

[CRXer]

Yes,very nice Zeforce,also well done ProECU

[aaronng]

Engine - K24A3
Displacement: 2354 cc
Compression: 10.5:1
Bore: 87 mm
Stroke: 99 mm
Camshaft - standard
Camgear Settings - standard timing
Gearbox - standard 4.388 FD
I/H/E - Apexi SRI with Ghetto™ enclosure and cold air feed

*run to 7000rpm only. Cutout is at 7300rpm*

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1040/clipboard01fd9.jpg

[TODA AU]

Customer car

Engine - K20A (AUDM DC5 Type R Motor)
Displacement - 2157cc
Bore -87.00
Stroke - 90.7
CR -12.3:1
Camshaft - TODA Spec F
Camgear Settings - Ex 105 LCA - Int OEM 50 degree VTC
Gearbox - OEM DC5R
I/H/E - INJEN CAI + TODA big single throttle 64mm on std PRB plenum / TODA header / Trust PEII exhaust (yuck)
1/4 mile - 13.1 @ 109mph (too much wheel spin :( )
ECU - Hondata K-100

Never likley to be completed,
Need quads & better cat back system
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/TODA_AU/2157ccDC5.jpg
Dyno run in 4th

[TODA AU]

Customer car

Engine - B18C7
Displacement - 1842cc
Bore -82.00mm
Stroke - 87.20mm
CR -12.8:1
Camshaft - TODA Spec C
Camgear Settings - Intake & Exhaut 102.5deg LCA (High cam)
Gearbox - OEM DC2R + Cusco LSD
I/H/E - Mugen Airbox + SPOON Throttle on std ITR plenum / TODA header / Custom 2.5" cat back
ECU - MOTEC M4
1/4 mile - 12.9 @ 103mph
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/TODA_AU/1842ccB18C.jpg
Dyno run in 4th

[TODA AU]

Customer car

Engine - B18C7
Displacement - 1820cc
Bore -81.50mm
Stroke - 87.20mm
CR -9.4:1 - 15psi Boost
Camshaft - TODA Spec C
Camgear Settings - Intake & Exhaut 105deg LCA
Gearbox - OEM DC2R
I/H/E - Custom CAI + T4 turbocharger + std throttle on std ITR plenum / Ram horn turbo header / Custom 3.0" cat back
ECU - HONDATA OBD2a S300
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/TODA_AU/1820ccturboB18C.jpg
Dyno run in 4th

[TODA AU]

TODA / M-Factory NSW Super Sprint EG6

Engine - Sleeved B18C2 + Ported B16A head
Displacement - 1979cc
Bore -85.00mm
Stroke - 87.20mm
CR -Secret Squirrel
Camshafts - TODA Racing
Camgear Settings - Secret Squirrel
Gearbox - EK4 VtiR + final drive & ITR LSD
I/H/E - Mugen Air Box, SPL Air pipe, TODA carbon surge tank, TODA 50mm quad throttles, TODA headers + 60mm cat back
ECU - HONDATA S300
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/TODA_AU/B18C2Lquads.jpg
Dyno run in 4th

[CRXer]

Ok......u win Mr TODA

BTW what shell was the 12.9sec B18C7 in,if u dont mind me asking,im assuming DC2?

[fatboyz39]

can we post up stock cam dyno results?

[bennjamin]

yup i did and yonas did ~ its all for comparison

[fatboyz39]

ok...will gather some dyno charts then :)

[TODA AU]

Ok......u win Mr TODA

BTW what shell was the 12.9sec B18C7 in,if u dont mind me asking,im assuming DC2?

LOL... it's not a competition.
I just posted a few up for people to compare as the intial post said.
I figured no one was posting anything & hey, I've got a dyno down stairs.
Why not print off a few sheets...:p
But yeah, the 12.9sec was in a DC2.

At the end of the day, what will be the best thing to compare is the power charateristic of each setup.
Actual numbers will obviously vary from dyno to dyno.
But the power output charateristic will be the same in any case.
This will give people a good indication as to how things perform.

I think stock cam tunes are a good idea too
The more dyno sheets the better :thumbsup:

[fatboyz39]

Some very good power there MR.TODA. That 2.2L DC5 sounds crazy!! Want to post up Leonard dyno graph :p

[CRXer]

LOL... it's not a competition.


No!!!

I want competition.......the more kicking,bitching,screaming & closed threads the better,makes much better reading.

[fatboyz39]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010924jimy-1.jpg
Engine - B20/VTEC
Displacement - under 2000cc
Bore - 84mm
Stroke - 89mm
CR - 11.5 - 13.1
Camshaft - Rocket M22x
Camgear Settings - n/a
VTEC X-Over - 5500rpm
Gearbox - 4.4 CTR LSD
I/H/E - Skunk2 manifold, 68mm t/b, toda headers, 2.5' catback
ECU - Hondata s200

[TODA AU]

/\ Nice combination. :thumbsup:

[2002 TeGgY]

Engine - K20A2
Displacement: 1994 cc
Compression: Stock
Bore: Stock
Stroke: Stock
Camshaft - standard
Camgear Settings - standard timing
Gearbox - standard
I/H/E - Injen/Toda/PowerGetter
(HUB DYNO) more to come :)

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk46/fbarso01/RU53RS.jpg

[aaronng]

^^ why was the stock ECU run stopped at only 7000rpm? Also, this dyno, is it a rolling road or did it connect direct to the hub?

[2002 TeGgY]

connected directly to the hub. duno y it stopped at 7,000 rpm. with the stock ecu the best it made was 132KW at around 7,300 rpm.

[Benson]

that seems abit weird...

[2002 TeGgY]

wat seems wiered? lol

[aaronng]

Hmm, his power is a bit low if it is 132kW with I/H/E.... If a hub dyno has 20% loss, then that's 117.6kW stock, which gives 14.4kW gain from his mods. That's already being generous. I thought hub dynos had 15% loss, which would give 125kW stock, which makes his 132kW reading seem very low.

[2002 TeGgY]

im real happy with the results. my cat was restrictive, and with a better flowing cat i could have gotten an extra 5KW or so. the most a dc5r made on that dyno with my mods was 155KW and that wat with a test pipe and 3'' catback.

[Benson]

why stop at 7000rpm ? k20 makes it pwoer at high rpm.. 7000 is just warming up the engine... haha

[2002 TeGgY]

as u can see, with the Kpro it redlines at about 8,300 rpm. theres no point in revving it more than that as its not making anymore power. as for the stock ecu run, i dont know why the diplay only shows up to 7,000 rpm. thats how i got the chart from my tuner...

[dsp26]

First post updated with Post #s and cam/engine references.

Thanks fellas keep em coming!!!

[aaronng]

BTW ron, where is your dyno? :p

[EUR003act]

'03 Accord Euro

Engine - K24A3
Displacement - 2354cc
Bore - 87mm
Stroke - 99mm
CR - 10.5:1
Camshaft - Stock
Camgear Settings - Stock
VTEC X-Over - 6,000rpm
Gearbox - Stock (4.3)
Intake -Custom K&N SRI
- EuroR RBC manifold
- P2R TB and IM gaskets
- P2R TB spacer
Exhaust - TODA Racing headers
-Hi-flow cat
-Stock catback
ECU - Stock

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff128/eur003/Dyno-ResultLarge.jpg

[dsp26]

BTW ron, where is your dyno? :p

lol.. not worthy of this thread.. we all know the peaky powerband of a b16a2 will post it up in a month or 2 with my build curve over my stockers, going for sk2s1 :) should show a massive peak gain in the mid-range... i hope...

[aaronng]

lol.. not worthy of this thread.. we all know the peaky powerband of a b16a2 will post it up in a month or 2 with my build curve over my stockers, going for sk2s1 :) should show a massive peak gain in the mid-range... i hope...
Sif mine is worthy. LOL. Put it up, it makes a good baseline to compare to your S1 when you put them in.

[dsp26]

Sif mine is worthy. LOL. Put it up, it makes a good baseline to compare to your S1 when you put them in.

Fair enough... guys keep in mind the weird dip at x-over is a result of rom that was in my car at the time... but can still tell straight away where kraiye's Pro1s make power over oem.

Engine - B16A2
Displacement - 1595cc
Bore - 81mm
Stroke - 77mm
CR - 10.4:1
Camshaft - OEM / Stock
Camgear Settings - OEM / Stock
VTEC X-Over - 5200rpm
Gearbox -
I/H/E - 3in SRI+airbox/4-1/2.5in+ITR Muffler
ECU - Spoon

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Maintenance/DSC00035.jpg

[aaronng]

Yeah, with that rom, your A/F ratios are even richer than my stock ECU! When do you plan to put the cams in? Also, have you decided on which ECU to use?

[bennjamin]

hey ron , how about you come to my Ozhonda wsid night this wednesday and prove that numbers dont mean much ?

[fatboyz39]

Vtec seems to be kicking in to early. Try setting it to like 5500rpm and that dip won't appear.

[fatboyz39]

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/7430/dyno1ya4.jpg

Whats with that kick in the graph at 52km/hr?

[GnJracing]

Great thread! Still trying to find my latest dyno sheet :(

[aaronng]

Whats with that kick in the graph at 52km/hr?

The dyno needs a little bit of a spruce up. That is causing that kick when throttle is first applied. You can see the same thing in dsp26's and my dyno graphs because we used the same dyno on the same day.

[dsp26]

Yeah, with that rom, your A/F ratios are even richer than my stock ECU! When do you plan to put the cams in? Also, have you decided on which ECU to use?
yep!! i hope others thinking of getting those roms see this and realise how shit 300km/42l is with todays prices... back to stock and happy getting 450-500km :) ecu/tuning is undecided at this stage as i'm already overbudget, was originally only gonna do wp/belt/gaskets/etc change ended up ordering other stuff.... only things i need left are springs/valves/retainers/camgears


hey ron , how about you come to my Ozhonda wsid night this wednesday and prove that numbers dont mean much ?
one day ben i'll join you all, maybe in 2months, at this time i refuse to go to the strip until i get some midrange, it's coz i can never.. um.. get in front of my gfs bros 20v at merging lights despite him getting 10wkw less than at the same dyno day :(


Vtec seems to be kicking in to early. Try setting it to like 5500rpm and that dip won't appear.
i can't coz thats what was on the rom, however, ecu-man has kindly provided me a jdm b16 rom to try out with the crossover at 5875 coz the p30-j01 i got was resulting in cel 20+36 and going limp mode.


***EDIT***
oh and i only just figured out how to "multi-quote" hahaha i used to quote one, quote another and copy then edit my post and paste hahaha

[TODA AU]

Whats with that kick in the graph at 52km/hr?
Glitch in the dyno...
It's where the dyno catches the acceleration & locks into the 100ramp rate of the Shoot4.
It can be seen in dsp26's dyno sheet at similar road speed too.

[fatboyz39]

Engine - B18C7
Displacement - 1.8L
Bore - 81mm
Stroke - 87.2mm
CR - 11.5:1
Camshaft - OEM / Stock
Camgear Settings - Custom cam gears
VTEC X-Over - 5300rpm
Gearbox - 4.7FD ITR OEM LSD
I/H/E - 44mm ITB's, Buddy club tri-y headers, Hondata S200.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010921.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1010920.jpg

[bennjamin]

wow. Mid range tune ftw.

[Benson]

wow. Mid range tune ftw.

Not really.. graph looks similar to yours but something is wrong and power is capped at below 100kw :o

[bennjamin]

hope its not a hiccup - hope ya get this worked out.

[kraiye]

yeah it shoots up then dies off rapidly... weird
looks nice until tat happens

[Benson]

hope its not a hiccup - hope ya get this worked out.


yeah it shoots up then dies off rapidly... weird
looks nice until tat happens

Yeap i know its weird... this is our first low making power Honda engine.. but it doesnt explain its speeds down the straight at Oran Park and Eastern Creek as it still hits easily over 200km/hr down the straight.

i wonder what it would do down the 1/4 mile tho.. :p

Must be the dyno?

[GnJracing]

Found the graph finally

Engine - JDM K20A
Displacement - Stock (1998cc)
Bore - Stock (86mm)
Stroke - Stock (86mm)
CR - Stock (11.5-1)
Camshaft - BuddyClub Spec 3's
Camgear Settings - Disabled
VTEC X-Over - 5800rpm
Gearbox - DC5R
I/H/E - port matched RBC with BDL 70mm TB, Custom headers (DTR copy) with 3 inch exhaust
ECU - Hondata K-Pro

9485

[fatboyz39]

:eek: thats a very nice power curve!!....JDM k20 are the shit :thumbsup:

[kraiye]

^^
ditto

[todaek9]

Just out of curiosity.
Comparing benjamin's dyno graph (~116kw), 1st page, and fatboyz39 dyno graph (~97kw), 5th page, Both are running the same engine, why one is 20kw more?
Mind explaining?

[grumpy rooster]

Yeap i know its weird... this is our first low making power Honda engine.. but it doesnt explain its speeds down the straight at Oran Park and Eastern Creek as it still hits easily over 200km/hr down the straight.

i wonder what it would do down the 1/4 mile tho.. :p

Must be the dyno?

You know, your graph looks just like the the Hi-Comp EG's graph BEFORE they put the open headers on with the TWM's. It was doing the same thing. Made heaps of power in the midrange but up top it just fell flat. When the put the much larger open pipes on it made a HUGE difference and the top end power just kept going.

So, you might find the ITB's are flowing much more than what the heeaders can. Try a much larger pipe and see what happens. You might be surprised. :)

Just for reference those bigger headers made 13kwatw diffeence up top and for longer with a 15kw difference in the midrange even though it was already very fat.

[jords]

Just out of curiosity.
Comparing benjamin's dyno graph (~116kw), 1st page, and fatboyz39 dyno graph (~97kw), 5th page, Both are running the same engine, why one is 20kw more?
Mind explaining?

probably different dyno giving different results.... it has been discussed before that Ben's b18c7 is a strong motor hence good dyno result for a stocker.

[Benson]

You know, your graph looks just like the the Hi-Comp EG's graph BEFORE they put the open headers on with the TWM's. It was doing the same thing. Made heaps of power in the midrange but up top it just fell flat. When the put the much larger open pipes on it made a HUGE difference and the top end power just kept going.

So, you might find the ITB's are flowing much more than what the heeaders can. Try a much larger pipe and see what happens. You might be surprised. :)

Just for reference those bigger headers made 13kwatw diffeence up top and for longer with a 15kw difference in the midrange even though it was already very fat.

Good advice, but we have been down that route.. Same top end but picked up heaps in the mid-range..... didnt make difference on the track.. felt the same between the two different headers...
We got our eyes set on the head for causing the problem...but the car is making good compression across all 4 cylinders....

[bennjamin]

probably different dyno giving different results.... it has been discussed before that Ben's b18c7 is a strong motor hence good dyno result for a stocker.

yup you gotta compare it to cars on that day. None others and no other dyno days....Mind you my motor ran almost the same numbers as a medium modded b18c7 on the same day too.

anyway Benson + fatboyz got some issues to work out best of luck

[fatboyz39]

yup you gotta compare it to cars on that day. None others and no other dyno days....Mind you my motor ran almost the same numbers as a medium modded b18c7 on the same day too.

anyway Benson + fatboyz got some issues to work out best of luck

OEM motors FTW!!

Issue will be worked out soon. Looks like the head has to come off. :(

[Weq]

OEM motors FTW!!

Issue will be worked out soon. Looks like the head has to come off. :(

Sounds like dave has had his hand in the pie.
PS. Good thread :)

[EUR003act]

not sure if this is correct thread to post this in, but i figure you guys know the most about cams. so does anyone have the stock information on the AUDM Accord Euros K24A3 camshafts? (intake and exhaust)

Adv. Dur. / Dur @ .050 / Lift (mm) ?

thanks guys :D

[aaronng]

not sure if this is correct thread to post this in, but i figure you guys know the most about cams. so does anyone have the stock information on the AUDM Accord Euros K24A3 camshafts? (intake and exhaust)

Adv. Dur. / Dur @ .050 / Lift (mm) ?

thanks guys :D
Probably the same as the 04-05 TSX. http://hondata.com/images/tsxtuning/tsx-and-rsx-camprofiles.gif

[EUR003act]

Probably the same as the 04-05 TSX. http://hondata.com/images/tsxtuning/tsx-and-rsx-camprofiles.gif

does that mean using a RSX-S (K20A/Z) exhaust cam along with TSX/Euro (K24A2/3) intake cam would work better?

any suggestions?

[TODA AU]

does that mean using a RSX-S (K20A/Z) exhaust cam along with TSX/Euro (K24A2/3) intake cam would work better?

any suggestions?

I have a set you can have for free if you want to try... :thumbsup:

[EUR003act]

I have a set you can have for free if you want to try... :thumbsup:

PM'd :D

It's actually been very interesting looking at the difference in all the camshafts honda make... some on the TypeR cams are more aggressive in lift and duration to other manufacturers stage1 cams for the K24 :p

[aaronng]

PM'd :D

It's actually been very interesting looking at the difference in all the camshafts honda make... some on the TypeR cams are more aggressive in lift and duration to other manufacturers stage1 cams for the K24 :p
That is because the more aggressive cams tend to push the peak torque higher in the RPM range, thus benefitting engines which can rev higher. Also, when you say stage 1 cams for K24, do you mean K24A1 or K24A2?

[EUR003act]

That is because the more aggressive cams tend to push the peak torque higher in the RPM range, thus benefitting engines which can rev higher. Also, when you say stage 1 cams for K24, do you mean K24A1 or K24A2?

not sure... alot of sites state cams for the K24A3 (us version) which is only 9.6:1 comp ratio...

heres what ive found so far:

K20A2: 02-04____________ K24A2: 04-05

int. pri.= 1.285" ____________ 1.313" - (Bigger)
int. vtc= 1.398" - (Bigger)____ 1.379"

ext. pri.= 1.291" ___________ 1.306" - (Bigger)
ext.vtc.= 1.369" ___________ 1.382" - (Bigger)

[aaronng]

When you say K24A3 in the US, they mean the CRV engine. Make sure you ask for K24A2 cams. Not A3.

[EUR003act]

When you say K24A3 in the US, they mean the CRV engine. Make sure you ask for K24A2 cams. Not A3.

yeah i guessed that...

its interesting looking at how many different stock cams honda made for the k-series... tsx cams seem to have the biggest primary lobes... where as DC5R cams have the largest vtec lobes...

[EG5]

yeah i guessed that...

its interesting looking at how many different stock cams honda made for the k-series... tsx cams seem to have the biggest primary lobes... where as DC5R cams have the largest vtec lobes...

Do those k20a intake cams and type R valve springs
Should be interesting gain over your set up now

[EUR003act]

Do those k20a intake cams and type R valve springs
Should be interesting gain over your set up now

well with tuning guys in the US are getting something like 200-220hp atw with stock K20 cams on a K24 block...

so yeah, im looking into to it with the help of Adrian :)

[EG5]

well with tuning guys in the US are getting something like 200-220hp atw with stock K20 cams on a K24 block...

so yeah, im looking into to it with the help of Adrian :)

US dyno numbers seems to be abit higher , see how yours goes.

[TODA AU]

Do those k20a intake cams and type R valve springs
Should be interesting gain over your set up now

For interest sake, the K20A ITR valve springs are not a straight swap into the K24.
The spring seat & retainer would also need to be changed as the CL9 valve spring is more narrow.
That is the K24 retainer is too small for K20 spring & the K20 spring also has an unaceptable overhang over the K24 lower seat edge.
For those who don't know the lower seat basicly look like a thin washer.
It's made of steel & prevents the spring eating into the alloy head.

[EUR003act]

damn your know your stuff adrian!

lol lucky ive found a PRB to put on my baby ;)

[tinkerbell]

b20vtec

August 2005:
2.0in exhaust, 4-1 header, 60mm throttlebody, stock airbox, ITR cams, ITR intake manifold, 2.5in cat, VAFC, adj FPR,

http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/b20vtec/dc2b20vtecaug05.jpg

April 2007:
added:
power fc, 2.34in exhaust, worked valve seats (repaired previous poor job), Injen CAI, 63mm throttlebody, buddyclub spec III+ cams, toda camgears (tuned)

http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/b20vtec/dc2b20vtecapr07.jpg

[tinkerbell]

oh and added ITR gearbox too...

[kraiye]

Customer car

Engine - B18C7
Displacement - 1820cc
Bore -81.50mm
Stroke - 87.20mm
CR -9.4:1 - 15psi Boost
Camshaft - TODA Spec C
Camgear Settings - Intake & Exhaut 105deg LCA
Gearbox - OEM DC2R
I/H/E - Custom CAI + T4 turbocharger + std throttle on std ITR plenum / Ram horn turbo header / Custom 3.0" cat back
ECU - HONDATA OBD2a S300

Dyno run in 4th

WHOA! I must have missed this before... 270kW DC2-R! Thats a bucket of fun right there!

[dsp26]

Engine - B16a2
Displacement - 1595cc
Bore -
Stroke -
CR - 10.8:1CR (0.025in shave + 0.5mm Head Gasket)
Camshaft - Buddy Club Spec III+
Camgear Settings - +2 Int | +0 Exh (Excluding TDC corrections for head shave)
VTEC X-Over - 5875rpm
Gearbox - Y21
I/H/E - Complete oem airbox and resonator, eBay 4-1 headers w/ 2.5in collector, 2.5in mandrel bent exhaust + 2.5in metal cat + ITR Muffler
ECU - JDM B16a P30-J02 rom (8700rpm fuel cut)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Dyno%20Sheets/B16a2_BC3plus_vs_Stock-1.jpg


***DSP26's notes***

after spending $XXXX amount to get my car running, I understand now that those who were saying get a better Final Drive ratio are correct as it moves the entire powerband across to the left. Only reason i don't regret this build was coz my engine needed it... but in terms of first performance mod, final drive is better!!

[grumpy rooster]

If you get it tuned properly and a FD you will be amazed at the difference. It will be a totally different beast.

Saying that, its a healthy result from a B16A.

[fatboyz39]

Nice result there Ron. Yes a 4.9 FD is suit it better. Is that tuned Ronny?

[dsp26]

Cheers fellas.. very excited about it... only problem is untuned at the moment and engine stalls on cold idle.

I am indeed looking for a final drive at the moment.. been playing with the tranny calculators.


On a side note.. the Pulstar Pulse plugs work... BUT... it works by technically advancing dizzy timing as advised by a few because of how much quicker it ignites the mixture... THEREFORE... dizzy timing is currently retarded which bumped me from the initial 99wkw dyno

[delsol9000rpms]

Engine - B16a2
Displacement - 1595cc
Bore -
Stroke -
CR - 10.8:1CR (0.025in shave + 0.5mm Head Gasket)
Camshaft - Buddy Club Spec III+
Camgear Settings - +2 Int | +0 Exh (Excluding TDC corrections for head shave)
VTEC X-Over - 5875rpm
Gearbox - Y21
I/H/E - Complete oem airbox and resonator, eBay 4-1 headers w/ 2.5in collector, 2.5in mandrel bent exhaust + 2.5in metal cat + ITR Muffler
ECU - JDM B16a P30-J02 rom (8700rpm fuel cut)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Dyno%20Sheets/B16a2_BC3plus_vs_Stock-1.jpg


***DSP26's notes***

after spending $XXXX amount to get my car running, I understand now that those who were saying get a better Final Drive ratio are correct as it moves the entire powerband across to the left. Only reason i don't regret this build was coz my engine needed it... but in terms of first performance mod, final drive is better!!

congrats on getting it together mate... 102 kw's.. lets race :P

your next upgrade has definately gotta be a tune and fd... im getting my shit together so i can do my final drive...


we have a similar setup besides the cams...

[delsol9000rpms]

btw hav you got another dyno sheet which says rpm's not speed? it will be much more useful for this thread

[VTi_b0i]

got this back today didnt you? i was in there talking to him while he was dynoing it :p
once u get it tuned itll make alot more too

[dsp26]

congrats on getting it together mate... 102 kw's.. lets race :P

your next upgrade has definately gotta be a tune and fd... im getting my shit together so i can do my final drive...


we have a similar setup besides the cams...

thanks mate. no worries for sure we represent the crx's :p.. i'll be out there soon. waiting to get tune, helmet and traction bar within the next month before heading out. I have forced annual leave from work (13weeks) :p so wouldn't mind a few wednesdays.

VTi_boi: yeah got it today... was soo keen after driving a gutless 95 corolla seca for the whole week.





I know this below dyno isn't relevant but i thought i'd post it.. it was my SR20 (not my 98wkw with ignition upgrade) comparing the power versus my new setup... my 93kw B16 wouldn't have a ghost of a chance against it. First and only run at wsid was 14.9
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Dyno%20Sheets/B16_sr20-1.jpg

[delsol9000rpms]

get it tunedd the vtec kicks in much too early look how the power and torque curves dip... its noticebale when you drive???

[fatboyz39]

Go the BC spec 3. They work well on a stock motor.

[dsp26]

Go the BC spec 3. They work well on a stock motor.

post up yours :)

[fatboyz39]

post up yours :)

If i feel like it.:p

[delsol9000rpms]

lol i still rekon you should have went with the toda spec b's... thats my opinion so dnt start any shit here

you would have ended up with alot more power mid range and top end...

the bc cams are good though nice smooth power curve... very good choice

[dsp26]

^^^we'll see how tuning goes.. the BCs were supposed to be the ultimate midrange cams... i was honestly going to get skunks though before i picked these up for the price i got em.

i reckon i'm missing at least 5kw where the vtec crossover dips.. by the looks of it, it'll probably be happy around 6200rpm... but i mean, the dip brings the power back flat to stock for about 500rpm after the actual crossover which sucks coz i can actually feel 'vtak kick in yo' coz of the surge after it :/

[Benson]

lol i still rekon you should have went with the toda spec b's... thats my opinion so dnt start any shit here

you would have ended up with alot more power mid range and top end...

the bc cams are good though nice smooth power curve... very good choice

How much power you making with your b16a?

[tinkerbell]

Go the BC spec 3. They work well on a stock motor.

they work fine on B20VTEC too :)

[fatboyz39]

they work fine on B20VTEC too :)

Yeah we know that too. Very good mild cams.

[delsol9000rpms]

dsp26 have you got it tuned yet how much power r you making?? get a dyno sheet up

[tinkerbell]

i am aiming for 132kW next time i goto the dyno...

[dsp26]

dsp26 have you got it tuned yet how much power r you making?? get a dyno sheet up
nope not yet, was on the dyno on the weekend to fix some issues with dizzy timing and idle, was a trade-off, get idle a tad stable through advancing and lose power and vice versa, advanced it back to 17* which would have brought me back down to my 99wkw figure from the workshop, at least i can idle and warm it at 5am while i get ready for gym :p


i am aiming for 132kW next time i goto the dyno...
what else have you done since your last 2 dynos? you going to the Toda one in Sept? for some reason I always thought you were a Melb member:confused:

[delsol9000rpms]

so when are you gonnna have it fully tuned with a propper computer like hondata or crome or something?

[tinkerbell]

what else have you done since your last 2 dynos?

adding a set of hy-tech replica tri-Y 4-2-1's and a 200 cell cat... to replace the JDM 4-1's and the 5yr old 2.5in cat...

plus a higher rev limit (previous dyno was only tuned to 8000), plus properly lashed valves, plus properly impedance matched injectors, plus a pocket full of kryptonite...

[jspec civic]

Engine - B16a2
Displacement - 1595cc
Bore -
Stroke -
CR - 10.8:1CR (0.025in shave + 0.5mm Head Gasket)
Camshaft - Buddy Club Spec III+
Camgear Settings - +2 Int | +0 Exh (Excluding TDC corrections for head shave)
VTEC X-Over - 5875rpm
Gearbox - Y21
I/H/E - Complete oem airbox and resonator, eBay 4-1 headers w/ 2.5in collector, 2.5in mandrel bent exhaust + 2.5in metal cat + ITR Muffler
ECU - JDM B16a P30-J02 rom (8700rpm fuel cut)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Dyno%20Sheets/B16a2_BC3plus_vs_Stock-1.jpg


***DSP26's notes***

after spending $XXXX amount to get my car running, I understand now that those who were saying get a better Final Drive ratio are correct as it moves the entire powerband across to the left. Only reason i don't regret this build was coz my engine needed it... but in terms of first performance mod, final drive is better!!
dude,

i know your running itr muffler, whats the noise level? looking to buy itr muffler

[dsp26]

bump this thread.

anyone else? does anyone have sheets with the torque curve... i actually wanna see the 'powerband'... i have less than 1500rpm and 1500rpm is supposed to be like the average?? with some exceptional tunes having around a 3000rpm powerband of peak torque



dude,

i know your running itr muffler, whats the noise level? looking to buy itr muffler

dB wise its quiet.. but it sounds like shit.. has the shitty buzzing noise... either my resonator is shot or the muffler is... oh and pm next time... irrelevant to this thread:thumbsup:

[Benson]

B16a
BC spec 3 cams
CTR pistons
70mm T/b
BC headers
Blox Air filter Combo

Blue line - unknown cam angles
Red line - cam gear adjustments

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1017834.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1017835.jpg

[dsp26]

^^smoooooth!! would love to see the torque curve on that.

guessing its ~12:1CR

what intake manifold matched to the 70mm TB?

[Slaz]

Id like to know what bore and stroke it is?

[Benson]

Stock b16a bore and stroke

[fatboyz39]

STOCK INTERNAL k24a3 04 Euro accord motor
RBC manifold
ITR throttle body
4-2-1 tri-y k-swap headers
3' Mild Steel exhaust
Hondata K-pro

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1017827.jpg

[tinkerbell]

wot cams champ?

[fatboyz39]

wot cams champ?

B16a running Buddy club spec 3

[tinkerbell]

STOCK INTERNAL k24a3 04 Euro accord motor
RBC manifold
ITR throttle body
4-2-1 tri-y k-swap headers
3' Mild Steel exhaust
Hondata K-pro

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1017827.jpg

wot cams champ?

[fatboyz39]

easyyyyyyy lol....Stock tinks....Rocker cover hasnt been taken off.

[tinkerbell]

so how is it a "cammed" motor?

[fatboyz39]

People posted the stock cams results, so i thought it'll be good to add it to the collection. If you think its not the right place ill remove it.

[tinkerbell]

yes, well worth posting! i just wasnt sure what it was ;)

so what DO big cams do to a 160kW 2.4l engine?

[fatboyz39]

yes, well worth posting! i just wasnt sure what it was ;)

so what DO big cams do to a 160kW 2.4l engine?

Yonas can tell you when he installs his BC N+ cams.:thumbsup:

[EG5]

Yonas can tell you when he installs his BC N+ cams.:thumbsup:

I got 154.4kw@wheels now with my stock k24a3 internals.

Will do a back to back comparison once i installed my BC N+ cams.

[bennjamin]

I got 154.4kw@wheels now with my stock k24a3 internals.

Will do a back to back comparison once i installed my BC N+ cams.


for everyones info and to correct any mis information.....EG5 , the entire engine + head is completely STOCK ? If a euro owner did the exact same bolt on mods that you did , they would get the same kw's and power band ?

[EG5]

for everyones info and to correct any mis information.....EG5 , the entire engine + head is completely STOCK ? If a euro owner did the exact same bolt on mods that you did , they would get the same kw's and power band ?

dead stock internals
The only thing i changed is 50 degree VTC from k20a
80mm tb , jdmyard im , jdmyard header , 3 inch exhaust , kpro.

[barefootbonzai]

the 50 degree VTC only affects mid range. So yes, if someone was to do exactly the same mods would expect something similar in their Euro. It can be seen Benny/Jimbos K24 as well.

[fatboyz39]

for everyones info and to correct any mis information.....EG5 , the entire engine + head is completely STOCK ? If a euro owner did the exact same bolt on mods that you did , they would get the same kw's and power band ?

2 motors cant have the "same" power output. You will get close to the power figure but not the same. :thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

2 motors cant have the "same" power output. You will get close to the power figure but not the same. :thumbsup:

you get my drift :)
Same combo on same motor on same dyno on same day = very similar results.
Its strange why more euro owners dont do the same !

[fatboyz39]

you get my drift :)
Same combo on same motor on same dyno on same day = very similar results.
Its strange why more euro owners dont do the same !

We'll build one for our Ek soon and come back with results.:thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

fantastic to see. This euro motor + mods seems to be the way of the immediate future

[EG5]

fantastic to see. This euro motor + mods seems to be the way of the immediate future

K series FTW :thumbsup:

[dsp26]

fantastic to see. This euro motor + mods seems to be the way of the immediate future

makes the Euro worth considering over an Aurion:thumbsup:

[EUR003act]

for everyones info and to correct any mis information.....EG5 , the entire engine + head is completely STOCK ? If a euro owner did the exact same bolt on mods that you did , they would get the same kw's and power band ?


the 50 degree VTC only affects mid range. So yes, if someone was to do exactly the same mods would expect something similar in their Euro. It can be seen Benny/Jimbos K24 as well.


makes the Euro worth considering over an Aurion:thumbsup:

dont forget you cant just k-pro a Euro ECU... you need to run piggy back a K20 ecu and then K-pro that... starts to become quiet expensive...

im only fairly new to the engine modding scene, but ive done ALOT of reading on US forums... and the majority of N/A engines making big numbers use the K24 block with a K20 head... :) i think thats the way to go...

but definately - EG5s K24A3 is a marvel! kudos to him :thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

oh for sure the euro motor in a different car is far better and possibly cheaper to add a ECU onto - but it can be done all the same inte very euro it came out of :)

[EUR003act]

hehehe stock ECU FTW :p

[Benson]

dont forget you cant just k-pro a Euro ECU... you need to run piggy back a K20 ecu and then K-pro that... starts to become quiet expensive...

im only fairly new to the engine modding scene, but ive done ALOT of reading on US forums... and the majority of N/A engines making big numbers use the K24 block with a K20 head... :) i think thats the way to go...

but definately - EG5s K24A3 is a marvel! kudos to him :thumbsup:

k24 head is becoming a popular choice as well;)

[EUR003act]

k24 head is becoming a popular choice as well;)

yep, especially the '06+ TSX head with 1mm oversize valves... porters tend to prefer the K24 heads aswell because they have more meat to work with...

[Benson]

Correct...

[Slaz]

Good results Benson, having a closer look at the dyno figures the torque does fall away given its capacity, but apart from cam timing, alot of fuel has been pulled out looking at the AFR's, not just cam timing changed, correct?

[Benson]

yeh a/f ratio was slightly fixed

[ZeForce]

anyone else? does anyone have sheets with the torque curve... i actually wanna see the 'powerband'... i have less than 1500rpm and 1500rpm is supposed to be like the average?? with some exceptional tunes having around a 3000rpm powerband of peak torque

I suppose it depends what you classify the powerband to be. Some say it's the rpm range from peak torque to peak power, others say it's rpm range where the torque is above 95% of the peak torque. I usually use the latter of the two.

And I agree, the shape of the torque curve is what I look at when I see a dyno printout. The peak power figure is almost meaningless since it's going to vary a fair bit depending on the dyno, temperature, etc, etc On top of that unless you have super close gear ratios to keep your rpm at peak power constantly the car really wont be that quick. You want an engine with a broad torque curve matched to gear ratios which can make the most of that torque.

Discuss.

[Slaz]

Is it really worth the chat given the differences between dyno's and days, would be nice if all engines turned up on the same day, same dyno, that way we could all compare apples with apples! Not look at loaded figures.:cool:

[dsp26]

I suppose it depends what you classify the powerband to be. Some say it's the rpm range from peak torque to peak power, others say it's rpm range where the torque is above 95% of the peak torque. I usually use the latter of the two.

And I agree, the shape of the torque curve is what I look at when I see a dyno printout . The peak power figure is almost meaningless since it's going to vary a fair bit depending on the dyno, temperature, etc, etc On top of that unless you have super close gear ratios to keep your rpm at peak power constantly the car really wont be that quick. You want an engine with a broad torque curve matched to gear ratios which can make the most of that torque.

Discuss.

exactly what i'm after...

for everyone elses references who are unfamiliar with powerband...:
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=10&TopicID=19852

[TODA AU]

exactly what i'm after...

for everyone elses references who are unfamiliar with powerband...:
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=10&TopicID=19852

Ok, I updated the postes with attachments as they seemed to disapear.
Anyway, the power & torque is shown.

[Benson]

TODA / M-Factory NSW Super Sprint EG6

Engine - Sleeved B18C2 + Ported B16A head
Displacement - 1979cc
Bore -85.00mm
Stroke - 87.20mm
CR -Secret Squirell
Camshafts - TODA Racing
Camgear Settings - Secret Squirell
Gearbox - EK4 VtiR + final drive & ITR LSD
I/H/E - Mugen Air Box, SPL Air pipe, TODA carbon surge tank, TODA 50mm quad throttles, TODA headers + 60mm cat back
ECU - HONDATA S300
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/TODA_AU/B18C2Lquads.jpg
Dyno run in 4th

Wow, nice power and mods. There alot of money in this motor...

Any future plans for it or is this it for the power size of things...

No wonder it pass me so easily at Oran park :angel:

[tinkerbell]

proof that 60mm catbacks are cool :)

[delsol9000rpms]

wow look at that torque/power curve...

[TODA AU]

Wow, nice power and mods. There alot of money in this motor...

Any future plans for it or is this it for the power size of things...

No wonder it pass me so easily at Oran park :angel:

Agreed, there is a lot of money in this one,
but we wanted a B-series that could match it with a K-series.
We've been pushing the revs up each round over the year.
Initally we were running to 8000rpm, in the last round we used 9000rpm.
Max rpm for now is 9500rpm.
So far it's been a reliable package.
We plan to re-use this engine for next year's super sprint series too.
As we'll have some more competition next year, we're going to go over it again at the end of this season.
The're more in it as the compression is still on the low side & there's a little more in the tune...
So we may push the power up a little from here.
Cheers

Adrian

[e240]

Wow, nice power and mods. There alot of money in this motor...

Any future plans for it or is this it for the power size of things...

No wonder it pass me so easily at Oran park :angel:


I have to send you the apps for the last round. Sorry but I have been flat out.

Does this mean you're running a K20 in your car now? I want a ride! :D

edit: and I want to see that vid! :-p

[Benson]

I have to send you the apps for the last round. Sorry but I have been flat out.

Does this mean you're running a K20 in your car now? I want a ride! :D

edit: and I want to see that vid! :-p

For the price, a kseries engine would be ideal :p

But no, next year the car is still gonig to retain a B-series.. Well hopefully a more competitive engine

Ill do the vid now for ya :)

[whtcrx]

Agreed, there is a lot of money in this one,
but we wanted a B-series that could match it with a K-series.
We've been pushing the revs up each round over the year.
Initally we were running to 8000rpm, in the last round we used 9000rpm.
Max rpm for now is 9500rpm.
So far it's been a reliable package.
We plan to re-use this engine for next year's super sprint series too.
As we'll have some more competition next year, we're going to go over it again at the end of this season.
The're more in it as the compression is still on the low side & there's a little more in the tune...
So we may push the power up a little from here.
Cheers

Adrian

i doubt that's a PULP power figure, given you wont release CR figures.:p

[e240]

It runs on '98 pump fuel. The car is driven to and from the circuit and the last time, it only took 1/2 a tank of fuel to get to Wakefield park from Hornsby.

*Edit* and in case you're wondering, No fuel additives, octane boosters etc are used in conjunction with the '98. Its straight off the bowser

[e240]

Ill do the vid now for ya :)
Yeah! I like to see the stance of the car from behind ...

[Benson]

Check out the track section..

[tinkerbell]

i doubt that's a PULP power figure, given you wont release CR figures.:p

n00b alert!

[bennjamin]

n00b alert!

...or it might be some one else who knows abit about cars and tuning and making his own ECU....

[TODA AU]

i doubt that's a PULP power figure, given you wont release CR figures.:p
Well... Actually it does run on PULP...
(In case anyone is wondering, BP ultimate is the usual fuel of choice.)
The C/R is probably a little lower than most would expect. (<12.0:1)
In any case, given a small increase in compression & leaning on it a little more in the tuning, there's certainly more in it.
The reason I put it up is to show what we can do with our products in a form that's not far removed from what can be used on the road.
& to show that we race what we sell & sell what we race.
However the exact combination/spec used here is something we'll likley be keeping to ourselves for a little while longer.
Cheers

Adrian

[bennjamin]

if you learnt how to drive Ado , you'd be unstoppable ! lol .

Cant wait to see this car in real life action once again

[e240]

Thanks Benson for the amazing footage
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1920953#post1920953

[mr_vtec]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u22/MRK24R/Image022.jpg

this is DRHONDA'S dyno graph from today..

it wont allow him to post it up..

but CONGRATS TO DRHONDA for the most powerful k series in the country..

[DR HONDA]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u22/MRK24R/Image022.jpg

this is DRHONDA'S dyno graph from today..

it wont allow him to post it up..

but CONGRATS TO DRHONDA for the most powerful k series in the country..

Yep Adrian knows his stuff lets hope i can drive as good as he tunes. The lower graph was power output of engine for sale. It would have cracked the 200+ atw (not flywheel) removing catalyst and exhaust and fitting a velocity stack but ran out of time.

[bennjamin]

thats like a ludicrous amount of power lol.

Like saying a ga-gillion zillion hp lol

[mr_vtec]

Yep Adrian knows his stuff lets hope i can drive as good as he tunes. The lower graph was power output of engine for sale.

i hope sooo lol

[EG5]

Congrats , heapssss of power!!!

[fatboyz39]

Thats some hectic power. Will it be able to put the power down? 10sec pass?

[DR HONDA]

Congrats , heapssss of power!!!
My own build from the backyard collection. Maybe the FN2R manifold has a bit to do with it. Hopefully i can get it off the line.

[DR HONDA]

Thats some hectic power. Will it be able to put the power down? 10sec pass?
Ill be happy with a low 12 high 11 thats enough. Im not a driver im a builder thats just fact.

[grumpy rooster]

Thats some decent power.

My prediction, mid 11's at 120+mph. Not a chance of getting that off the line in a hurry with a "normal" suspension setup.

Let us know when you take it out. :)

[mr_vtec]

haha we all know what those numbers will be making..

i guerss u proved me wrong with that manifold aye ;)

[DR HONDA]

Test and tune andra nights friday nights. Tommorrow dont expect anything savage just L plate driving.

[delsol9000rpms]

farkk congrats on the new setup mann thats fantastic.... adrian is a great tuner and a great guy.... all the best with this power to run a good time.. im sure youll become a great driver with abit of practice

[delsol9000rpms]

the fn2r manifold is actually the best designed factory k- series manifold...

[DR HONDA]

the fn2r manifold is actually the best designed factory k- series manifold...
Its a well designed factory manifold. Will try another type one day if someone supplies it for me.

[BADHBT]

Crazy!

[tinkerbell]

thats like a ludicrous amount of NA power lol.


fixed.

congrats - keep pushing that envelope!

[Alexx]

Wow. I thought hassys figure of 170atw was nuts enough. Nice work Dr Honda and Adrian :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[mr_vtec]

hahaha..!!
yea he built my motor so shows who is the BEST K SERIES BUILDER IN THE COUNTRY...

[e240]

Drooolllll

[dsp26]

specs on the Doctor Honda motor please :)

So i can catalogue it in the first post

[DR HONDA]

K24/K20
KPRO
3 inch exhaust
FN2R intake manifold
stock injectors

[tinkerbell]

what cams?

[barefootbonzai]

hell yeah, that's some crazy powa!

[delsol9000rpms]

lol can we have some specs on the motor? wat cams n stuff...?

this motors got over 200kw in it easy with a few more tweaks and a little more time on the dyno... crazy setup

[SLOWEGG]

Was this on pump fuel (98)?

[B20NA]

thats awsome from a stock motor, phil im the guy u met at toda.
how did u go at the runs tonight.
JDMYARD has abit of catching up to do from there stock motor (yeah right stock )

[grumpy rooster]

Mate, I suggest you spend a little more time here and at the track before you go claiming something isn't true when everyone else knows it is :thumbdwn:

[STiR]

Agreed. These guys are all pushing the envelope and setting new benchmarks. The first thing you will learn about racing is respect. When you do the hard yards, you know how hard the yards actually are. When you have a fellow beating you are catching you, you respect them for putting in the same hard yards...

[B20NA]

Mate, I suggest you spend a little more time here and at the track before you go claiming something isn't true when everyone else knows it is :thumbdwn:

I will once i get my car finished, engine allmost done.
I have nuffin against Yoanus but i don't beleive his engine is stock as he keep's telling people, its just my opinion , i might be wrong, but im certain im not. Has anyone witnessed whats under the rocker cover to suggest its stock, also what kw.s is this motor making these days, this will determine wether it's stock.

[grumpy rooster]

Do some research and get back to us.:rolleyes:

[EG5]

I will once i get my car finished, engine allmost done.
I have nuffin against Yonas but i don't beleive his engine is stock as he keep's telling people, its just my opinion , i might be wrong, but im certain im not. Has anyone witnessed whats under the rocker cover to suggest its stock, also what kw.s is this motor making these days, this will determine wether it's stock.

Will take alot of pics / make a video when I do my Buddyclub N+ cams package in the next few weeks. You can come and inspect what is under the rocker cover.

100&#37; stock untouched internal motor here fresh from Hontoys , you can ask Dyno dave , Paul from Pulse racing who tuned my car , Deddy from Top one automotive or Westside muffler , DRH.
They are the guys who helped me with my EGK24A.

Only 7600rpm rev limiter here which is pushing the limit of a stock k24a3.

154kw@wheels , 867 kg + 60kg driver , do your calculation.

When I got my built motor , I will make sure it will run numbers down the 1/4 mile .

[B20NA]

what ever, anyway i hope you get the numbers down the quarter, im not degrading your car, im actually happy you run quick time's also im happy for all honda's N/A to run quick times, that's why we build these beasty engine's, anyway back to the topic, any updates on DRHONDA run tonight

[EG5]

DRH is running good tonight :)
I let him updated with details

[EUR003act]

Only 7600rpm rev limiter here which is pushing the limit of a stock k24a3.

what do you see as the biggest limiting factor for say 8000rpm redline on stock K24? the valvetrain / piston speed / or oil pump?

alot of guys in the states run stock K24s to 8000+rpm with k20 valvetrain and oil pump... so im guesssing it would be ok?

[DR HONDA]

No fighting guys. I will post runs later. Just a warm up, it reached 121mph.

[EG5]

what do you see as the biggest limiting factor for say 8000rpm redline on stock K24? the valvetrain / piston speed / or oil pump?

alot of guys in the states run stock K24s to 8000+rpm with k20 valvetrain and oil pump... so im guesssing it would be ok?

valve train and bottom end

[BADHBT]

I will once i get my car finished, engine allmost done.
I have nuffin against Yoanus but i don't beleive his engine is stock as he keep's telling people, its just my opinion , i might be wrong, but im certain im not. Has anyone witnessed whats under the rocker cover to suggest its stock, also what kw.s is this motor making these days, this will determine wether it's stock.



id keep quiet if i wer you

ill bet my BADHBT dc2 that yonas car has stock internals.......+ $5k cash so you can dig your self a Hole to burry your head in.

[pwr2w8]

hey DRH what time did you run very interested also you have video footage

[barefootbonzai]

B20NA, you're a fcuken nut sack. Talk about being a hater big time...

[B20NA]

B20NA, you're a fcuken nut sack. Talk about being a hater big time...

What makes you think im a hater, i have an opinion and i expressed it on a forum, isn't that why we have forums. Anyway think what you want, i don't know yonas personally and i give him credit for his time's.

So lets move on!!!!

[DR HONDA]

Come on guys i didnt post my sheet up to create a tug of war, if i new it was create this much shit i wouldnt have posted. My dyno sheet was to show the the yanks that we can do it here in oz too without a million dollar budget. Lets keep deflamatory comments to pms or to yourselfs.

[bennjamin]

Who cares what is or isnt done to his engine....At the end of the day times down the 1/4 or at the track speak much louder.

Congrats to EG5 and his personal achievement. \

Lets move on guys ! More cars n dyno graphs n specs !

[pwr2w8]

thats right lets move on, b20na had an opinion and thats all it was.

[tinkerbell]

so is the DrH engine running camshafts that are not the OEM ones?

i.e. what cams is it running?

[TODA AU]

Customer - Phil (aka DR Honda)

Engine - K24A Bottom end + K20A Head
Displacement -
Bore -
Stroke -
CR -
Camshaft - TODA
Camgear Settings - Ex per cam card - Int OEM K20A 50 degree VTC
Gearbox - OEM DC5R
I/H/E - Custom CAI + BDL 70mm throttle on std FN2 CTR plenum / SSR 4~1 header / Metal cat / R-Crew cat back
1/4 mile - Best ET to date 11.6 / Best mph to date 121.8mph
ECU - Hondata K-Pro
Edit: This car is fun to tune.... :p (Good engine :thumbsup:)

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/TODA_AU/DRHondaK20K24Hybrid.jpg

[fatboyz39]

why not fill out the other space?

[xtercii]

Agreed, there is a lot of money in this one,
but we wanted a B-series that could match it with a K-series.
We've been pushing the revs up each round over the year.
Initally we were running to 8000rpm, in the last round we used 9000rpm.
Max rpm for now is 9500rpm.
So far it's been a reliable package.
We plan to re-use this engine for next year's super sprint series too.
As we'll have some more competition next year, we're going to go over it again at the end of this season.
The're more in it as the compression is still on the low side & there's a little more in the tune...
So we may push the power up a little from here.
Cheers

Adrian

Wouldn't it make more sense to just go with a Kseries since a basic k20a package would quite easily push over 150kw atw?

[mr_vtec]

why not fill out the other space?

cause its all stock like ur motor:D

[Slaz]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just go with a Kseries since a basic k20a package would quite easily push over 150kw atw?

Yes it would power wise to do a k series swap opposed to working a b series, hence why everyone is doing them now a days, but a k swap im sure eats up 10k + very easily when you consider the parts required and then you have mods from there but the potential for greater gains are in a k.

[DR HONDA]

You need all the right bolt ons and tune to make 150 atw out of a JDM K20A (AND THATS THE PRICEY BOLT ONS) as you will be dreaming if you think you can make 150 out of an K20A2 unless someone fudges the dyno figures.

[xtercii]

When we say quality bolt ons, really we are only talking about good header, IM and ECU, so when compared to the massive amount of works poured into the b20 it's nothing in terms of $$, effort and time...

[EG5]

When we say quality bolt ons, really we are only talking about good header, IM and ECU, so when compared to the massive amount of works poured into the b20 it's nothing in terms of $$, effort and time...

jdm k20a with JDMyard IM + 75mm TB , dtr header , 3 inch exhaust , kpro . made 155kw@wheels

[fatboyz39]

You need all the right bolt ons and tune to make 150 atw out of a JDM K20A (AND THATS THE PRICEY BOLT ONS) as you will be dreaming if you think you can make 150 out of an K20A2 unless someone fudges the dyno figures.


Right on. :thumbsup:

[TODA AU]

why not fill out the other space?

It's not my car or engine so to be frank it's not up to me.
Plus, being an engine that's making loads of grunt & well & truley at the sharp end of K-series drag racing in this country,
A little bit of mystery isn't really such a bad thing now is it?

[TODA AU]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just go with a Kseries since a basic k20a package would quite easily push over 150kw atw?

As the other guys have said, 150kw isn't just as simple as intake header & exhaust...
The B-series is doing it's job well at the moment.
After the sprint rounds well have a look at the drag strip with it.
Obviously we won't go anywhere near phil, but we'll see how it goes.
Cheers

Adrian

[prego]

ive got a quick question about phils car i am by no means flaming

how is the k24 bottem end coping with such high rpm is it from an accord or crv is their any difference? that might make it more capable to run those higher rpms?

its just that i read today with the k24a to be running at rpm's that high it would have piston speeds higher then say a f20c at the same rpm from this article

http://www.civictype-r.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=36869

"the actual bolting on part wouldn't be too difficult, as the heads should mount right up. However, you do run into an issue with piston speed. At its 7900-rpm redline, the K20A2 in the Type-S has a piston speed of 4464 feet per minute (fpm). Thanks to its long stroke, the K24A1 comes close to that, running at 4225 fpm at its much lower redline of 6500 rpm. By the time you've spun your K24 up to just 6900 rpm, you're already at 4485 fpm, and at the 7900 rpm redline of the K20A2, you're at a crazy 5135 fpm. For comparison, even the hyperkinetic S2000 with its 9000 rpm redline doesn't exceed 5000 fpm (it maxes out at 49&#37; fpm). And the Integra's B18C1 only reached 4573 fpm. Translation: If you're going to plunk a K20A2 head on a K24A1 block and redline the concoction to 7900 rpm without seriously building up the bottom end.. duck. "

this was an article when the k series first came out and is from america

i just want to ask these questions so i can learn more about the k series feel free to pm me

[pwr2w8]

cause its all stock like ur motor:D

LOL thats funny

[B20NA]

When we say quality bolt ons, really we are only talking about good header, IM and ECU, so when compared to the massive amount of works poured into the b20 it's nothing in terms of $$, effort and time...

You don't need to pour massive amounts of money into a B20, its about the right combo, i think a b20 is cheaper to build than a k-series as parts are more accessable and alot cheaper, i don't think you will make 200kws out of a b20 but i think 170-180kws is very achivable with the right setup.
My cousin run's a workshop in the USA and ive been speaking to the founder of b-series and he made 203kws from his b-series but as we know USA dyno's are way out on power figurers, my built is basicly going to be the same and im hoping for some decent figurers and it hasn't cost me a fortune.

[Slaz]

You don't need to pour massive amounts of money into a B20, its about the right combo, i think a b20 is cheaper to build than a k-series as parts are more accessable and alot cheaper, i don't think you will make 200kws out of a b20 but i think 170-180kws is very achivable with the right setup.
My cousin run's a workshop in the USA and ive been speaking to the founder of b-series and he made 203kws from his b-series but as we know USA dyno's are way out on power figurers, my built is basicly going to be the same and im hoping for some decent figurers and it hasn't cost me a fortune.

170-180 rwkw is a big expensive ask of a b series engine, look at the 152kw the Toda EG is making on pump gas, whilst the cost of this engine is unknown it wouldnt be a budget build and the highest b series dyno sheet made public as far as im aware.

170-180kw would be the most powerful b series this country has seen so look forward to seeing your motor once its up and running but as for 203kw, that would have to be a super high comp, high capacity, race fuel/methanol drinking machine and yes, U.S dyno figures unless coming off the same dyno in the same mode weather corrected.

Whats your build compromise of and how long till your hoping to have it completed?

[fatboyz39]

Yeah agreed 170-180kw is a BIG ask for B series. Anywayz goodluck with it.

[B20NA]

Engine - B20B Bottom end + B16A Head ( Head flowed 300cfm @ 28 inches of water )
Displacement - 2L
Bore - 84.5
Stroke - STOCK
CR - 12:5 - 13:1
Camshaft - JUN3 or Custom Blueprint Race
I/H/E - Jenvey Quad 48mm taper throttle bodies / Hytec tri-y 4-2-1 / 2.5 - 2.75 cat back
ECU - Hondata S300

[fatboyz39]

Engine - B20B Bottom end + B16A Head ( Head flowed 300cfm @ 28 inches of water )
Displacement - 2L
Bore - 84.5
Stroke - STOCK
CR - 12:5 - 13:1
Camshaft - JUN3 or Custom Blueprint Race
I/H/E - Jenvey Quad 48mm taper throttle bodies / Hytec tri-y 4-2-1 / 2.5 - 2.75 cat back
ECU - Hondata S300

You might fall short of your target power.

[B20NA]

170kws = 227hp, we will see how we go

[fatboyz39]

170kws = 227hp, we will see how we go

227 hp US dyno will be possible.

[barefootbonzai]

looks like a pretty standard b20 build... on pump fuel i highly doubt you'll see even close to them numbers on our dyno's.

[EG5]

225whp US dyno = around 190 - 200whp Australian dyno

[xtercii]

looks like a pretty standard b20 build... on pump fuel i highly doubt you'll see even close to them numbers on our dyno's.

you are wrong dang, with the right set up anything is possible for example a budget dseries turbo will eat a k swap...

[DR HONDA]

It's not my car or engine so to be frank it's not up to me.
Plus, being an engine that's making loads of grunt & well & truley at the sharp end of K-series drag racing in this country,
A little bit of mystery isn't really such a bad thing now is it?
Its true my build my time my cash my r&d. Ill advertise once it reaches its peak:thumbsup:

[Slaz]

you are wrong dang, with the right set up anything is possible for example a budget dseries turbo will eat a k swap...

You shouldnt even bother bringing a forced induction motor into this conversation, as thats not the comparision and i agree with Dang and all others B20NA, i highly doubt you will make anywhere near 170 rwkw with that set-up on pump fuel.

Out of interest, if you have your head flow figures available, what are your exhaust ports flowing?

[Benson]

You'll make a buckle load of mid range torque!

[Benson]

170-180 rwkw is a big expensive ask of a b series engine, look at the 152kw the Toda EG is making on pump gas, whilst the cost of this engine is unknown it wouldnt be a budget build and the highest b series dyno sheet made public as far as im aware.



We had a B20vtec that made close to 150kw's. Its a much more simple setup than Toda's EG. Had stock rods, Cast pistons and a set of mild cams.

So in saying that, anything is achievable for a B20vtec.

Keep up the good work B20NA :thumbsup:

[TODA AU]

Edit....
(Comment was just spam)

[dsp26]

dudes.. stop spamming the thread, this one has a specific purpose = POWERBAND/CURVE as a result of camshafts and supporting modifications...

no cam and full motor specs put it in the dyno thread and discuss there.

besides US dynos calculate 15&#37; drivetrain constantly. whereas afaik ours are configured based on fwd/rwd/awd from ~20%

[Slaz]

We had a B20vtec that made close to 150kw's. Its a much more simple setup than Toda's EG. Had stock rods, Cast pistons and a set of mild cams.

So in saying that, anything is achievable for a B20vtec.

Keep up the good work B20NA :thumbsup:

Leonards EG is a purpose built engine for the application of reliable racing with excellent throttle response, torque, and power across the selected rev range, and im sure its still got plenty in it.

What im also not saying is power figures of 150kw cant be done cheaper either.

But ill still be very impressed seeing 170kw out of that set-up on pump, but not putting down the engine or combo, just speaking from what ive seen.

[B20NA]

Out of interest, if you have your head flow figures available, what are your exhaust ports flowing?[/QUOTE]

213 cfm @28 inches of water

Slaz i agree it will be hard to get those figures on pump, but we will see what happens.

Anyway lets get back on the topic of this forum.

This is King motorsports setup in the US
Here it is again:

Kingmotorsports built bottom end
B20z block
13.1:1 compression 93 octane
Bdl block guard
Mahle 3cc 84.5mm pistons
Stock rods bushed small ends with ARP bolts
Kingmotorsports balanced rotating assembly including flywheel and clutch
Type R head street ported by PURE TUNING
stock Type R valves
supertech springs
crower cro-moly retainers
Skunk2 Pro 2's degreed in at 55* opening on the exhaust@.040 valve lift
Skunk2 Cam gears
Type R intake manifold stock matched to TB
Type R throttle body bored to 64.5mm
RC 310's 96&#37; duty cycle
DC jdm 4 to 1 header
Skunk2 Mega powerR exhaust 2.75"
Hondata S200


Link
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2286082

[B20NA]

read this link, he allmost got the work to do my head, but i went to the US

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2498/article.html

[tinkerbell]

nice link.

but this is really the wrong thread.

[markoJEK1]

what are the average torque ratings for a stock b18CR with bolt ons, and same for a k20? from what Ive seen b18c's are round the 160nm mark? and what are the k20's? thanks

[Benson]

Its hard to compare with the 6 speed gearbox

[prego]

ive got a quick question about phils car i am by no means flaming

how is the k24 bottem end coping with such high rpm is it from an accord or crv is their any difference? that might make it more capable to run those higher rpms?

its just that i read today with the k24a to be running at rpm's that high it would have piston speeds higher then say a f20c at the same rpm from this article

http://www.civictype-r.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=36869

"the actual bolting on part wouldn't be too difficult, as the heads should mount right up. However, you do run into an issue with piston speed. At its 7900-rpm redline, the K20A2 in the Type-S has a piston speed of 4464 feet per minute (fpm). Thanks to its long stroke, the K24A1 comes close to that, running at 4225 fpm at its much lower redline of 6500 rpm. By the time you've spun your K24 up to just 6900 rpm, you're already at 4485 fpm, and at the 7900 rpm redline of the K20A2, you're at a crazy 5135 fpm. For comparison, even the hyperkinetic S2000 with its 9000 rpm redline doesn't exceed 5000 fpm (it maxes out at 49% fpm). And the Integra's B18C1 only reached 4573 fpm. Translation: If you're going to plunk a K20A2 head on a K24A1 block and redline the concoction to 7900 rpm without seriously building up the bottom end.. duck. "

this was an article when the k series first came out and is from america

i just want to ask these questions so i can learn more about the k series feel free to pm me

anyone?

[Slaz]

The piston speeds are infact that high but its working isnt it, but saying that, most of these K24 engines going around are in street/drag orientated cars, dare say if you were hoping to have this set-up as a curcuit engine and have it produce similar power at sustained high rpm for long periods of time, the chance of failure is much higher hence why the curcuit k motors out of Japan or the U.S use the OEM 2.2 crank like what is suppplied with the Toda 2.2ltr stroker kit for the k20 motor instead of using the k24 bottom end.

In the U.S they are starting to mod the turbocharged Honda RDX crank to work in k series engine as its of better quality, OEM manufactured and doesnt come from an engine that uses balance shafts. ;)

[fatboyz39]

Hope this will help out guys wanting to go down the b16a route. Dyno sheet will be posted up soon. Dyno ran out of paper :(. Tuner for both setups DD. same dyno was used on both ocassion.

Engine - BYP B16a (P72 head port/valve train)
Displacement - 1598cc
Bore - 81mm
Stroke - 77mm
CR - 12:1
Camshaft - BC spec 3
Camgear Settings - BYP
VTEC X-Over - ..BYP
Gearbox -4.9FD B16a
I/H/E -Skunk2 manifold + 70mm t/b/ BC headers/ 2.5'.
ECU - Hondata S200

Peak power 123kw atw

Engine - BYP b16a (PR3 head -stock ITR head with valve train)
Displacement - 1598cc
Bore - 81mm
Stroke - 77mm
CR - 11.7:1
Camshaft - BC spec 3
Camgear Settings - ...BYP
VTEC X-Over - ...BYP
Gearbox - 4.9FD b16a
I/H/E - A-Sport ITB 44mm/ Toda rep style header/ 2.5'
ECU - Hondata S200

Peak power 117kw atw

Between the 2 setup's we've change the intake system (ITB), different head (stock ITR head), and different header design. We manage to pick up a massive 12-18kw gain in the midrange. Both setup had thorough tune so it wasnt just a quick slap tune.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/fatboyz39/P1017852.jpg

[delsol9000rpms]

wow nice mods

[delsol9000rpms]

what brand 4.9 final drive?

which of them motors does a quicker 1/4 mile time?

[Benson]

MFactory FD

First motor went 14.2

Second Motor - unknown

[zco]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u22/MRK24R/Image022.jpg

holy cow ! i just realised, you shift at 9000rpm, and say it falls back to 7000rpm, you're still putting out 190kw+ till redline again
that curve looks pretty neat aswell..
that is seriously awesome lol :thumbsup:

[EG5]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u22/MRK24R/Image022.jpg

holy cow ! i just realised, you shift at 9000rpm, and say it falls back to 7000rpm, you're still putting out 190kw+ till redline again
that curve looks pretty neat aswell..
that is seriously awesome lol :thumbsup:

Big difference as I experienced driving it down the 1/4 mile
truckload of power and torque compared to my egk24a :thumbsup:

[xtercii]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/xtercii/Picture066.jpg

Engine - JDM K20A
Displacement - Stock (1998cc)
Bore - Stock
Stroke - Stock
CR - Stock (11.5-1)
Camshaft - Stock
Camgear Settings - Stock
VTEC X-Over - 4400rpm
Gearbox - EP3R
I/H/E - SSR Header, Rcrew 3in Exhaust, AEM CAI...rest untouched
ECU - Hondata K-Pro tuned @ Insight by Dave

[EG5]

Nice one Jing!

[zco]

damn jing// that graph so smooth

[Chi]

Nice Jing, how does it feel compared to the B18C now?

[xtercii]

not bad, starting to like it more now...

[delsol9000rpms]

this is my mates eg sedan

before tuning and toda headers made 97kw rich as ...:thumbdwn:

Engine - JDM b18c type r
Displacement - stock
Bore - stock
Stroke - stock
CR - stock
Camshaft - stock
Camgear Settings - stock
VTEC X-Over - stockish
Gearbox - stock dc2r
I/H/E -comptech icebox, toda headers, dc2r exhaust system 2.25"
ECU - hondata s200

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/7496/pic675oq8.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1797/pic676ea1.jpg