The B20VTEC discussion thread

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17-12-2010, 03:21 PM
pinoy-boi

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

i have bought multiple packages from those guys... delivered (with tracking) in usually 7-10 business days, BUT they can expedite it if you need (i.e. 5 days) for extra cost (like 45 postage vs 25)...

however - this time of year there will be all sorts of disclaimers saying that times cannot be guaranteed due to the Christmas period!!!

Thanks for the help TB, will hve the engine ready mid next week, so hopefully get it back before the xmas holidays, but i highly doubt it -_-"
17-12-2010, 03:24 PM
tinkerbell

the old saying is: "haste makes waste"

so just go with he flow ;)

and good luck :)
17-12-2010, 03:58 PM
pinoy-boi

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

the old saying is: "haste makes waste"

so just go with he flow ;)

and good luck :)

thanks buddy.

got a aftermarket water pump coming from mlb which will be here monday 80 bux including gst and freight, gotta love getting trade discount :)
20-12-2010, 05:43 PM
Chr1s

TB, that website is ****ing ace.
02-01-2011, 08:56 PM
logical

Just read through this whole thread, it's good knowledge for myself. I'm looking to do a B20 setup in the next week or so and I just wanted to know if I went by this list should I be ok? Is there anything else I would need besides an ECU and GB?

B20B8 block
VTEC water pump
B18C timing belt
B20B head gasket
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
oil line and fittings
head work (dowels/plug/surface)
piston relief work
PCV system (fittings/hoses/can)
Coolant hoses
VRS gasket kit

b16a head
ITR camshafts (or larger)
ITR valve springs
ITR intake manifold
Larger throttle body
Lightened flywheel
Heavy duty clutch
Adjustable cam gears
Adjustable fuel regulator
Upgraded fuel pump
Oil cooler

(copy and pasted this list from a post on this thread)

Thanks
02-01-2011, 09:36 PM
tinkerbell

wow, that is a pretty good list!

but you also need to check things like the condition of the driveshafts, i usually get them reconditioned at the same time if the boots are starting to crack...

also check the engine mounts...
02-01-2011, 10:07 PM
logical

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

wow, that is a pretty good list!

but you also need to check things like the condition of the driveshafts, i usually get them reconditioned at the same time if the boots are starting to crack...

also check the engine mounts...

Yeh gonna get the drive shafts reconditioned and probs run hasport mounts.

and btw tb you had an awesome setup!
03-01-2011, 01:05 AM
Lerlo

Hey guys, is it alright to run 2 sanwich plates?
I got the vtec conversion sandwich and would like to add another for an oil cooler....
03-01-2011, 03:50 AM
MikeyG

Quote:

Originally Posted by logical

Just read through this whole thread, it's good knowledge for myself. I'm looking to do a B20 setup in the next week or so and I just wanted to know if I went by this list should I be ok? Is there anything else I would need besides an ECU and GB?

B20B8 block
VTEC water pump
B18C timing belt
B20B head gasket
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
oil line and fittings
head work (dowels/plug/surface)
piston relief work
PCV system (fittings/hoses/can)
Coolant hoses
VRS gasket kit

b16a head
ITR camshafts (or larger)
ITR valve springs
ITR intake manifold
Larger throttle body
Lightened flywheel
Heavy duty clutch
Adjustable cam gears
Adjustable fuel regulator
Upgraded fuel pump
Oil cooler

(copy and pasted this list from a post on this thread)

Thanks

i would change the head gasket to golden eagle gasket that comes with the kit
03-01-2011, 09:50 AM
Benson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lerlo

Hey guys, is it alright to run 2 sanwich plates?
I got the vtec conversion sandwich and would like to add another for an oil cooler....

Yes its fine
03-01-2011, 10:05 AM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyG

i would change the head gasket to golden eagle gasket that comes with the kit

and alternatively, i would not change it to non-Honda head gasket or use any 'kit'
04-01-2011, 03:14 PM
Lerlo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson

Yes its fine

Cool. Does it make a difference which goes first?
04-01-2011, 04:42 PM
na-118

why would you recondition drive shafts these days it cost 200 bucks for a pair
04-01-2011, 05:27 PM
tinkerbell

from Honda?
04-01-2011, 06:20 PM
logical

Quote:

Originally Posted by na-118

why would you recondition drive shafts these days it cost 200 bucks for a pair

where from?
05-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Cooker

Oem Honda shafts are mega expensive!!!!
But they are one of the best shafts you can get. Hasport ones use rubbish metal and brake easy.
05-01-2011, 12:54 PM
Benson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lerlo

Cool. Does it make a difference which goes first?

Put the golden eagle kit first, then oil cooler snadwich plate then filter
05-01-2011, 12:55 PM
Benson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooker

Oem Honda shafts are mega expensive!!!!
But they are one of the best shafts you can get. Hasport ones use rubbish metal and brake easy.

I agree, hasport shafts are crap. Shutters and vibrates at low speeds.
05-01-2011, 01:32 PM
dougie_504

Quote:

Originally Posted by na-118

why would you recondition drive shafts these days it cost 200 bucks for a pair

We get them done down here in Melbourne for $150 a pair (EF8), and about 1-3 hours turnaround. Good quality too.
05-01-2011, 04:52 PM
na-118

repco bursons clutch brake australia burt brothers fairfield everywhere mate,,,

not genuine obviously
05-01-2011, 08:56 PM
logical

Quote:

Originally Posted by na-118

repco bursons clutch brake australia burt brothers fairfield everywhere mate,,,

not genuine obviously

sorry never knew you could buy drive shafts new (besides OEM and Hasport)
06-01-2011, 11:29 PM
Lerlo

FYI, the new spring style LMAs from honda are just $16 each, worth changing when you are reconditioning your heads.
07-01-2011, 08:34 AM
tinkerbell

how often have you had an LMA fail?
07-01-2011, 09:03 AM
Cooker

Not fail, but if they not spring type lma then they get quite rattly over time.
07-01-2011, 09:05 AM
tinkerbell

are not all LMA's a 'spring' type?

http://www.cccylinderheads.com/pics/LMA1.jpg
07-01-2011, 09:10 AM
Cooker

My b16a has the enclosed style one (dunno if there is spring inside, think it's a damper with oil in it). The type r or spring style is obvious cos you can see the spring cos that's all it is.
I have the new style at home to change over soon. My lma's so rattly below vtec lol.
07-01-2011, 09:15 AM
tinkerbell

yeah, they cased ones have spring inside.

B16A/B18C = old cased style , S2000 = "new" spring style

i guess it is much cheaper to make the spring one, rather than the cased one?
07-01-2011, 01:19 PM
Lerlo

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

how often have you had an LMA fail?

Well, its just for peace of mind, and its not very expensive, thats what im saying.

Speaking of the old type, it seems to be designed as hydrualic, but there is no oil feed into the thing, so it still just acts like a spring..
07-01-2011, 01:25 PM
tinkerbell

well, $128 is *kinda expensive* to replace things that in most cases will not be broken?

sure, for example i replace old heater hoses before they blow "for peace of mind", but these are actually not expensive compared to a puddle of coolant on the side of the freeway and a cooked head...

but in the case of an LMA - it can be broken and you'll still drive home/continue racing...

the real question that should be asked is - do the new style offer advantages when used with high-lift cams?
07-01-2011, 03:05 PM
Lerlo

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

well, $128 is *kinda expensive* to replace things that in most cases will not be broken?

sure, for example i replace old heater hoses before they blow "for peace of mind", but these are actually not expensive compared to a puddle of coolant on the side of the freeway and a cooked head...

but in the case of an LMA - it can be broken and you'll still drive home/continue racing...

the real question that should be asked is - do the new style offer advantages when used with high-lift cams?

Im just providing information about it, people can decide for themselves.

As for advantages, I do not know, but the new engines are using this style anyway, and it definately looks more robust.

I changed mine because one of my LMAs came apart and instead of forking out $76 for 1 old one, I decided to pay 128 and get 8 new ones.

Also, I was surprised by the price as I read the Americans are paying USD$30 for one...
07-01-2011, 03:32 PM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lerlo

Im just providing information about it, people can decide for themselves.

oh, OK, i must have misunderstood where you said that these parts are worth changing when we are reconditioning our heads...

Quote:

Also, I was surprised by the price as I read the Americans are paying USD$30 for one...

so what part number did you buy?

was it either of:

14820-PCB-003
or
14820-PCB-305
07-01-2011, 08:33 PM
logical

these LMA's.. do they NEED to be changed/reconditioned when I put my head into the shop??? Also does or has anyone in Bris done a B20 setup and if so where did they go to get there block and head work done/places people would recommend?
08-01-2011, 05:26 PM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by logical

these LMA's.. do they NEED to be changed/reconditioned when I put my head into the shop???

no - these definitely do NOT need to be changed unless broken.
08-01-2011, 06:45 PM
logical

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

no - these definitely do NOT need to be changed unless broken.

Fab. Now onto the fact that there are 2 types. Mine is a b16a so its the enclosed one. Is there an advantage to have the spring type over the closed type and vice versa?
08-01-2011, 07:29 PM
tinkerbell

no...
08-01-2011, 07:47 PM
Lerlo

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

oh, OK, i must have misunderstood where you said that these parts are worth changing when we are reconditioning our heads...

so what part number did you buy?

was it either of:

14820-PCB-003
or
14820-PCB-305

I bought 305, I think 003 is for h22?
18-02-2011, 12:40 PM
pinoy-boi

just wondering what timing belt cover you guys are using?

ive got a b16 head + b20b3 block... but my mechanic doesnt know which cover 2 use just had 2 rebuld the head after a rock got in there nd stuffed my tensioner...

*note* not running a Timing belt cover atm
18-02-2011, 02:31 PM
tinkerbell

use the b20 or b18 one...

b16a is too short & will leave a gap...
18-02-2011, 03:05 PM
pinoy-boi

the back cover that sits inbetween the timing belt nd housing?
18-02-2011, 03:12 PM
tinkerbell

ah, no i was referring to the timing belt cover - between teh timing belt and the engine mount.

for the 'back cover' that goes between the camgears and the head you need a VTEC one...
18-02-2011, 03:15 PM
tinkerbell

NB - you may need to modify the lower edges of the back cover to fit the b20 block if using a B16A back cover...
18-02-2011, 03:45 PM
pinoy-boi

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

ah, no i was referring to the timing belt cover - between teh timing belt and the engine mount.

for the 'back cover' that goes between the camgears and the head you need a VTEC one...

wen u say "VTEC on" u mean liek a b16 one?
18-02-2011, 03:53 PM
tinkerbell

Vtec = b16a & b18c
18-02-2011, 03:55 PM
pinoy-boi

hmmmm, thats strange, coz they had a b16 one, but they said it ddnt fit on the b20 block..
19-02-2011, 10:24 AM
riruiz_88

which main studs would be used for the b20 vtec? arp dosnt list a part number for the B20B all they have is this:
B16A: 208-5402
B18C: 208-5403
B18A/B: 208-5404

have tried emailing ARP them selves and they have no info they could give me:confused:
19-02-2011, 11:40 AM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoy-boi

hmmmm, thats strange, coz they had a b16 one, but they said it ddnt fit on the b20 block..

the 'back cover' doesnt fit to the block - it fits to the head...
19-02-2011, 11:46 AM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by riruiz_88

which main studs would be used for the b20 vtec? arp dosnt list a part number for the B20B all they have is this:
B16A: 208-5402
B18C: 208-5403
B18A/B: 208-5404

have tried emailing ARP them selves and they have no info they could give me:confused:

B20B block = B18B block except for bore

EDIT: why you changing them anyways? you know that they are not strictly a 'bolt-on' modification?
19-02-2011, 04:43 PM
riruiz_88

i always thought you were meant to change them, would you recommend using standard B20 main studs then?
20-02-2011, 10:11 AM
tinkerbell

no - you are meant to change the headbolts, not the mainbolts...

i dont think there is a strong reason to change the mainstuds on a non-boosted B20VTEC.
20-02-2011, 02:22 PM
riruiz_88

u mean the head studs? i found a link that shows exactly what you were talking about re-threading the main studs using the ARP fasteners.
can i use B16A main bolts or are they different size/thread?
20-02-2011, 03:06 PM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by riruiz_88

u mean the head studs?

no, i SAID: "you are meant to change the headbolts, not the mainbolts..."

FYI - Hondas are build with headBOLTS and mainBOLTS

you MUST change the B20B headBOLTS to either B18C headBOLTS or aftermarket headSTUDS...

Quote:

i found a link that shows exactly what you were talking about re-threading the main studs using the ARP fasteners.
can i use B16A main bolts or are they different size/thread?

you can do what ever you like :)

but i have already answered your question if you bothered to read my posts...
20-02-2011, 04:34 PM
riruiz_88

thanks for clearing it up.
09-03-2011, 12:43 PM
Lerlo

Quote:

Originally Posted by riruiz_88

thanks for clearing it up.

Normally people do not reuse the head bolts.
Get ARP headstuds, part no. ARP 208-4306 for b16/b20.
Main bolts shouldnt need to be changed unless you wanna run a girdle.
11-03-2011, 10:03 PM
Bludger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lerlo

Normally people do not reuse the head bolts.
Get ARP headstuds, part no. ARP 208-4306 for b16/b20.
Main bolts shouldnt need to be changed unless you wanna run a girdle.

Depends on what the intended use is.

nothing wrong with reusing standard head bolts on a normal head gasket change.
11-03-2011, 11:45 PM
Lerlo

Well normally people dont for a b20vtec build.

Anyway, my new oil pump looks likt the one on the right, and my old oil pump looks like the one on top left.
Timing belt cover cant fit, anyone knows what cars run this timing belt cover that would fit?

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/at...ns-oilpump.jpg

Thanks,
Leon
12-03-2011, 08:01 AM
riruiz_88

the one on the right looks to be a B16A oil pump, the left might be B18C.
12-03-2011, 07:21 PM
Lerlo

Quote:

Originally Posted by riruiz_88

the one on the right looks to be a B16A oil pump, the left might be B18C.

I did some search and i can only find that its a USDM 99-00 b series oil pump, im wondering if any AUDM cars share this design.
12-03-2011, 09:07 PM
TODA AU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lerlo

I did some search and i can only find that its a USDM 99-00 b series oil pump, im wondering if any AUDM cars share this design.

No... You'll need to get the cover out of the US
12-03-2011, 10:20 PM
Lerlo

Quote:

Originally Posted by TODA AU

No... You'll need to get the cover out of the US

Sigh, that sucks.

Well thanks for the info mate!
15-03-2011, 11:10 PM
Bludger

everyone running with non standard bottom end, what compression do you guys have?
15-03-2011, 11:23 PM
Touge Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bludger

everyone running with non standard bottom end, what compression do you guys have?

13.0 comp pistons, but with the gasket i'm using its 12.5.
16-03-2011, 12:36 AM
GSi_PSi

^tuned on 98 octane ?
16-03-2011, 08:07 AM
Touge Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSi_PSi

^tuned on 98 octane ?

has to use 98. other wise it pings.
16-03-2011, 08:12 AM
pinoy-boi

12.7 running 98 octane
16-03-2011, 09:47 AM
tinkerbell

12.5:1 on 98
16-03-2011, 08:33 PM
Bludger

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

this is how i do it (2.5MB):

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/a...ankventB20.jpg

So bottom of this Ebay canister, a hose runs the oil drain, back to the Prelude fitting on the block? prelude oil cooler fittings (part# 11107-PK2-003)
16-03-2011, 08:53 PM
Bludger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touge Tom

ivé had a b20vtec for 3 years now built from the bottom up. you name it, type-r crank and low friction journal berring's , 84.5mm forged 13 comp pistons with 3 leaf head gasket to drop the comp to 12.5, forged rod's, block guard+welded in and the block planed and the cylinder's honed out, p72 vtec head, stage 3 + buddyclub cam's, skunk2 intake manifold, buddyclub 4-2-1 header, high flow cat with 2.5 straight through piping, toda racing fly wheel, exedy sports tuff clutch, type-r gearbox 4.7 final drive, koni adjustable shock's with lowered king spring's, blox 68mm throttle body, buddy club double coil valve spring's with titanium retainer's, jdm p30 ecu with apexi vafc2 and 240cc injectors. and this is my daily to and from work ,shop's, road trip's and home. iv'e had no problem's with this set up. it was buit @ good performance centre yennora by charlie and his crew. so why doe's everybody hate on the frankenstien?

any problems with the 240cc injectors?

sounds small for what you have.
17-03-2011, 01:01 AM
Bludger

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyG

i would change the head gasket to golden eagle gasket that comes with the kit

no you wouldn't, you would pay someone else to do it.
17-03-2011, 05:50 AM
bennjamin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bludger

no you wouldn't, you would pay someone else to do it.

....and still owe them money !
17-03-2011, 09:26 AM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bludger

So bottom of this Ebay canister, a hose runs the oil drain, back to the Prelude fitting on the block? prelude oil cooler fittings (part# 11107-PK2-003)

yes, there is a 9/16 barbed fitting on the bottom that leads to the 'Prelude' fitting on the TB side hole...
17-03-2011, 09:28 AM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bludger

any problems with the 240cc injectors?

sounds small for what you have.

he'd be running 80psi fuel pressure or similar...
20-03-2011, 07:06 PM
Sideburns1

hey ive got a question im doing a b20 build now im running cp 12.5:1 pistons eagle rods stock b20 crank for the bottom end and ive got a jdm b18c itr head and i wanted to run stage 2 or 3 skunk 2 cams and valve train...has anyone ran this setup or similar and had issues with valves touching or anything similar??

thanks
20-03-2011, 07:21 PM
Benson

Clay the motor to check clearance
21-03-2011, 12:07 AM
MikeyG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bludger

no you wouldn't, you would pay someone else to do it.

maybe

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennjamin

....and still owe them money !

and who do i owe money??? please tell me dude
21-03-2011, 06:21 AM
bennjamin

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyG

maybe

and who do i owe money??? please tell me dude

U owe me $21 and a set of oem lugnuts lol
Not that i care but just taking advantage of comedic timing ;-)

Back on topic sorry OP !
21-03-2011, 08:53 AM
tinkerbell

take it to PM or you will be banned.
24-03-2011, 06:42 PM
Sideburns1

so far wenever i say to someone im building a b20 up all they say is there so unreliable n it will blow....how many people have had problems with there builds? and is this just a assumption because the motor was never made for vtec?
24-03-2011, 06:57 PM
Cooker

If you build it properly eg. Apart from decent pistons and rods use 5 cap girdle, decent dampner like fluidamper, balance everything and don't rev past 8,500rpm should be ok.
All comes down to the quality of the build and not reving it past 8,500rpm.
24-03-2011, 07:45 PM
Bludger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideburns1

so far wenever i say to someone im building a b20 up all they say is there so unreliable n it will blow....how many people have had problems with there builds? and is this just a assumption because the motor was never made for vtec?

have you read through this thread yet?

you should. I did. took me a while but answered a lot of questions, like the ones you're asking.
24-03-2011, 11:56 PM
Lerlo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooker

If you build it properly eg. Apart from decent pistons and rods use 5 cap girdle, decent dampner like fluidamper, balance everything and don't rev past 8,500rpm should be ok.
All comes down to the quality of the build and not reving it past 8,500rpm.

Hey cook, whats this damper your talking about?

Also, for a b20/b16, one would use a b18c timing belt right?
Cant seem to get mine to tension up well and no i did not mill my head or block..
22T Water Pump too....

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