see this thread for turbo euro
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=german
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see this thread for turbo euro
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ghlight=german
Question to those that have had this system fitted to there car,
whats the exhaust noise like at Highway Cruising speeds 100-110km/h?
Any drone/annoying amount of noise?
Apparent on the youtube vid I posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumped
Supposed to be rectified by changing the brackets on the production run.
Have advised James noise level needs to be reduced. He is developing inserts for the mufflers for a reduction of Db.
Im not saying much else except this..
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8043/ecudr2.jpg
and that im excited.:p
hahaha YAY!!! :D
so is there any results as yet??
So who would like to provide a review of their newly installed Mild Reflash?
Did they actually get released?!!
Still heard nothing about the Extreme package, Dont think ill bother anymore, sick of waiting, 6-10 weeks turned into over 12 with no word and no replies to emails..
I think ill upgrade cars soon anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumped
My ECU should be back from Jtune on Friday for the extreme.
Was to be beginning of February for the production parts to arrive, but James just told me today that there will be more delays due to manufacturing problems.
I've still got the prototype on mine, so I have no choice but to wait..:thumbdwn:
Haven't been able to drive my car much at 102db or else I won't have a license.......:eek:
There are posts from September 2007 during the pre-order where members are saying parts will be ready in 6 to 10 weeks.
So now Merlin you are advised of more delays? What does that make it - March 2008, or at least 6 months after the preorder? :confused: I just can't understand how this is possible.
its a very unique marketing campaign you could say
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
My guess is we can probably blame the FN2R entering the equasion ......:thumbdwn:
And too much talking up..........:thumbdwn:
I agree.I'm trying to remain positive regarding the Jtune gear but they're not giving us much to remain positive about!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Having sent my ECU off for reflashing on Monday I spoke to Jtune on Wednesday and they advised they still hadn't done the reflash but indicated it should be done on Thursday. I hope so as going without a car from Sunday through until Friday is a hassle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukey13
Good luck, I sent mine by overnight last Thursdayto arrive by Monday, and will apparently be posted today, Thursday. Four days for a reflash....hmmmm?
I expected to be running the extreme prototype for about a month from Nov.24 before the final production parts were fitted, now it looks like closer to 4 months.
But I can't drive around much anyway because of the 102db, shame they forgot to make it legal. After contacting the EPA I was advised that the limit for the 03-05 model is 90 and for the 06> is 82 db. However James tells me that the prototype muffler inserts have been developed now after voicing my concerns after I did the db test to EPA requirements.
Apparently it is much quieter now, but for a product supposedly ready to go after 2.5yrs developement, there has been far too many further delays, along with critical factors overlooked, such as legality.
A case of too many eggs in the basket?...or simply poor business decisions combined with too much talking up?
I'm looking forward to driving my car again when it doesn't feel like I'm driving in a drum on wheels.
Love the power and torque, but the noise is way too much after a short period in the car,once the initial novelty has worn off.
i dont know about NSW, but i thought in ACT that the legal requirement was 96db... and thats measured at 1m from the exhaust tip at 4500rpm...
82db is very quiet? i mean, i normal conversation is like 75db... im not saying your wrong, cause youve researched it, but it just seems realy low...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
It is governed federally by the EPA, not sure about individual state requirements.
However I believe that the EPA would over-ride any state legislation.
To EPA standards it is measured at exhaust tip level or a minimum of .2m at a distance 0f .5m at a 45deg angle @4350rpm (for the Euro)
And yeh, my stomach growls louder than 82db..that's a ridiculously low level to meet. I intend to fit a Apexi ECV (just arrived @$225)to quieten down a further 10db for stealth mode.....:cool:
The things i hear from Lukey and Merlin re:delays on reflash and so on make me reluctant to get even the reflash.:(
The each state has its own EPA department. I can't find a website or any mention of an EPA department in the federal government...Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
From NSW EPA, it's 90dB now (used to be 92dB 1-2 years ago).
it is governed in NSW by: Department of Environment and Climate Change
via: Protection of the Environment Operations (Noise Control) Regulation 2000
noise limits:Quote:
Subdivision 1 Motor vehicles
13 Use of motor vehicles on road
(1) A person must not cause or permit a motor vehicle to be used on a road if the motor vehicle is capable of emitting noise at a level in excess of the maximum noise level specified in Schedule 1 for that kind of motor vehicle.
testing proceedures:Quote:
Schedule 1 Prescribed noise levels of classes of motor vehicles
Motor car
Any engine
Any mass
Any height
Before 1 January 1983 - 96dB(A)
On or after 1 January 1983 - 90dB(A)
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fr...2000+sch.2+0+N
aarong - it never used to be 92dB
Merlin - the 80dB is the new FEDERAL adr compliance requirement, i.e. cars built after 06 must be designed to be 80dB...
and all cars complianced to ADR's must remain compliant, despite the NSW legislation beign contradictory... (at this stage)
the new 06+ requirements are detailed here in ADR83:
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/mana...5?OpenDocument
ADR83 replaced the previous ADR28, which is detailed here:
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/mana...9?OpenDocument
I'm having the same issue as well with the reflash and i had it sent off last week....these guys are absolutely f...king hopeless and told everyone that it would be a 24 hour turnaround on their own forums. The flash according to them take approx 1 hour.....
Emails don't even get answered when I ask about it, yet any other inquiry about purchases get answered within like an hour or so......
I needed my car for work and it'll be a week without it from tomorrow...
If you are gonna purchase anything from these guys, don't expect anything on time which you might have already deduced from this entire thread with all the delays and stuff.....
Here's hoping that i would get it back this week, but i ain't counting my chickens.....
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thum...offin_nail.jpg
I think all the negative feedback on there lack of service, the fact they dont write back to my emails and the constant lies about release date just really puts the nail in the coffin for me.
Im over waiting :)
Time for a new car me thinks :)
And how loud is Sharapova's shriek again? 102dB or thereabouts?
Ahhh, I see. Thanks for the info. The 92dB figure I saw must have come about when I was cross-eyed or drunk..... :zip:Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
my old sub can make 125dB without cranking the amp gain to even 50%...
I wonder what dB a ferarri makes.....
..and surprise.. it's a Federal Law....:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
The figures I quoted were supplied to me by a Federal EPA Officer over the phone.
it is a stretch to ADR's "law"...
the actual enforcement laws of the ADR's are state based.
the state laws make a breach of federal ADR's an offence. the ADR's simply describe the standards.
learn more about Australian Design Rules here:
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...ign/index.aspx
and here (small .PDF):
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...s_nov_2007.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Or put simply the states enforce the Federal Laws such as the ADR's.
wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
put simply, the ADR's are not laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
"Any new ADRs endorsed by the ATC will, subject to consideration by the Australian
Minister for Transport and Regional Services, be given force in law in Australia by making
them National Standards (ADRs) under section 7 of the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989."
........reference...........
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 83/00 — External
Noise) 2005
Explanatory Statement
Appendix A
2004 Regulation Impact Statement
(ADR83/00 and other standards)
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/6AB008009ABB6AA8CA2570BA00063460/$file/ADR+83.00+RIS.pdf
Anyway, the Jtune xtreme is 102db measured to EPA requirements..:zip:
...according to my db meter.....;)
they are still not LAWS,
as it CLEARLY states in your post the ADR's are STANDARDS, to be given force in law, not as law...
sheesh! :zip:
Would you be happy with...Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
"Federal Legislation enforceable in law by the states".....
......sheesh:zip:.....talk about getting technical....this ain't no court..
Seems like I had better zip my lip concerning this topic, even though I'm driving a car with the xtreme package fitted, and this thread is titled (Euro)Hondata Update.
Getting way off subject here.............:zip:
Merlin086 - Are you happy with how your car performs or not?
mate, i am just clarifying the comments you made earlier today,Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
you are right - this ain't no court, but if you get pinged with a 102dB car - you might be in one (or james will be by implying these meet ADR requirements!!!!)
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachm...1&d=1199938352
http://www.jtune.com.au/products.html
this is a breach of advertising laws (both federal and state) if it is false, misleading or deceptive...
Just got off the phone from James at Jtune and there's a big problem...
Unfortunately the reflashing equipment has been "frying" ECUs during reflash - two test ones and a customer's one.
James has offered to send back ECUs immediately and make arrangements for new equipment to be used in about 4 weeks.
Looks like the Civic FN2 reflashes are working ok. :eek:
loool who would of thought that the FN2 ones would be finished b4 the euro ones
Very happy with how the car performs, but the noise level within the car is unbearable after a very short period.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Subsequently I have driven only about 1,000k's in the past 8 weeks instead of my usual 5,000k's over that period, due to the noise level inside and out.
I too was of the belief that it would meet ADR's, having read the Hondatech website.
Obviously they got so rapped up in the dyno figures thay forgot to make it legal.
That having been said, and remembering that I am running the production prototype, I advised James of the db level shortly after installation, and he has told me he has had inserts manufactured for the mufflers which have apparently reduced the noise level considerably.
My understanding prior to installation was that it was the pre-production kit that was being installed on my car but has turned out to be the semi-final prototype. I have some serious harmonics happening in my car almost right through the rev range, but I personally believe this is due to the prototype headers being too short and I believe is too close and vibrating on the crossmember, although this has been apparently rectified by lengthening the header pipes for the production run.
My expected 4-6 week wait for replacement parts to make my car reasonably quiet inside and out will likely be 4 months.
It has been marketed as completed project but it appears far from it, but I supposed it should have been expected considering documented delays.
Probably my ECU that got fried...........:eek:
Alright fair enough... but why is this only discovered now? If you look at post #1 to this thread they were calling for "test vehicles" in May 2005.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukey13
With all the test vehicles and all the R&D since that time, surely such a critical aspect of the actual tune (ie the actual flash process itself) would have been tested a long time ago. :confused:
While all the delays certainly raise some questions with their manufacturing and/or business approach :eek: this latest one could just be a piece of equipment that has gone bad (assuming that it is not the same as used for the other ECUs).Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Wonder what the story is the poor guy whose ECU was fried i.e. are Jtune going to replace it (including reprogramming of keys) or he out of pocket ?
All the delays and hype and now this....That's enough info for me not to get the reflash. Case closed. :thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukey13
I think if they guarantee that your ECU wouldn't get fried (afterall its bloody hot these days, certainly makes electronics more susceptible to frying), then there wouldn't be a problem.
It just seems like too many problems at once though..
Yeah,me too.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
So you're happy & though your system is a prototype that you just had to have & not the finnished product, you feel like complaining anyway just for the sake of it.?
And a production replacement is comming to sort the noise out at no additional charge, yet here you are with all manner of negative comment?
You know your system is not the system refered to on the website but pretend you were somehow mislead???
Seriously, If it were upto me, I'd tell you to enjoy a cup of concrete.:thumbdwn:
As for the equipment failing,
Guys... Shit happens. It will be sorted, but shit happens.
Fair dinkum, you lot are going on like a bunch of little girls.:thumbdwn:
Think about it.
& don't start a shit fight over my comments.
It's nothing personal, just a reality check.
R & D testing of prototypes does obviously involve product failures and such. I understand the situation as I myself have been involed in numourous testing of prototypes in my previous rides that I have owned... There were successes as well as failures....
Mr. Honda himself said "Sucess is 99% failure"
If the prototype R&D works, good but in most cases, failures do happen, it's part and parcel of R&D.. We need failures to find the problem so we can solve it.....
Failures are part of everyday and I think we all accept that.
Merlins gripe is the car is ILLEGAL to drive. Will JTune foot his defect bills? I doubt it. At no stage was Merlin told that the system will be perfect but legally for road use is important. If he had an accident (or worse) and his car wasn't legal then I would hate to be in Jtunes shoes.
I've riden in Merlin's car for several straight hours (as a potential customer) and to be honest I was put off the whole thing simply because of noise. Power was great but what's the point. The prototype is still there for the public to see, experience and HEAR. It may do more harm then good.
I'm sure Merlin accepted the prototype as was under the impression a final product wasn't too far away. Now we all know how good Jtune are with time frames and dead lines. I'm sure they are all nice people and very experienced but it seems to me they need to concentrate on current projects before taking on more and more and giving unrealistic deadlines. There are only so many hours in the day after all. I could be wrong but that's at least the impression that is given.
Merlin is a customer who is paying for all this. He says expected replacement parts would be 4 to 6 weeks. Now likely to be 4 months. Do you really think he needs a reality check? The noise is also unbearable - that is his experience - it isn't complaining just for the sake of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Of course equipment fails, etc. But it is unfair for you to have a go at Merlin and everyone else (the girls comment).
And are you commenting here because you are a dealer of the product (according to the Jtune website)? Or are you commenting because you genuinely believe Merlin is being unrealistic?
Members have been crying out for real customer experiences with this product for some time. Now we have some real world experiences posted and the dealers don't like the comments? You would have remained silent if Merlin had a glowing review.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Perhaps I should add a few quotes from the Hondatech site :-
.................................................. ...............................
"Our JTUNE exhaust system is designed to be quiet but producing maximum gains in power, drive ability and fuel economy."
"Sadly in today’s world gone are the days of loud exhaust systems as the law is being more and more tough, these days people opted for stealth installations. Our system has a few major primary goals, maximum power, in both mid range and up top, maximum drive ability, and increase fuel economy and most of all not overly louder than stock"
"All the Jtune equipment will be fully ADR37 tested and certified for both sound and emissions, making the upgrades legal within Australia. Final results of the performance increase will be released along side of the product release"
.................................................. ......................................
If you installed the system on someone's car leading them to believe it legal and they came back with a massive fine, and a defect notice.....I suppose you would tell them to.... enjoy a cup of concrete.
I suppose the point I am making is that I have a 50k car now that I can't drive cause someone forgot to consider legal issues....and I have paid $4,450 for a prototype having been told it was the finished product except for tailpipe diameter and rear bracket.
I was told my ECU would be 2 weeks and final parts would be 5 weeks.
ECU has been 7 weeks so far still waiting, supposed to be back today.
Was told on Wednesday that final parts will be another maybe 2 months making 16 weeks.
However, on the hondatech site another customer has just had the extreme kit fitted to his car with, I assume, the modified headers and muffler inserts.
I must comment that as a paying customer I feel let down that I will have to wait another 2 months for my car to be driveable while modified parts are being installed on new customers cars.
End Part 1
Also keep in mind that when the quiet tips are installed it will also reduce the power output. The Comptech exhaust with quiet tips in barely outperforms (1-2hp or something) the stock setup so I would expect the same to happen to the Jtune system. The website promised a street legal product but before James got complaints from us he didn't even think of developing quiet tips. So if we didn't say anything the system will be released and installed as if it's legal. No one would suspect anything until they got pulled over by a cop and defected.
It's quite clear that this indicates that no proper noise related testing was done during development.
Things can go wrong during development (which is why they had test cars) but I expect the final product to be reliable. If they fry my ECU during reflashing who's going to pay for the replacement? Can you imagine the inconvenience and frustration that can arise from that? Imagine not being able to drive your car for a long time while waiting for a new ECU.
In actual fact it would be illegal to take it down a drag strip in NSW which I understand have a limit of 95db, although measured in a different way to EPA requirements.Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
I think it's 95dB to the spectator stand. With other tracks, it's similar, measured to the edge of the track fencing. So you can be very much louder than the EPA's 90dB @ 1 meter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
Edit: For Winton, it's 95dB measured at 30metres from the track edge.
Might be a stupid question but how the crap do top fuellers run then lol
I think Merlin086 has every right to be pissed off.
I believe that's correct, I intended to do a proper test but I've been in hospital and don't have a ECU now.......I will when I get it back...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Although I have noticed when driving past people mowing their grass, even if I limit revs to 3k they still stop and look as it is obviously louder than their mower while revving.
You're kidding.That's NOT good.:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
Yeh, personally I'm really pissed off now after comments from TODA AU such as .........Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
"And a production replacement is comming to sort the noise out at no additional charge"
Like I should have to pay extra to make it legal!!!.....get real TODA AU !!!
Quote from today's post from Hondatech............
.................................................. .................................................
"Adrian from Toda Racing Australia insuring total product compatibility and reliability for the Australian market for all our packages."
.................................................. ..................................................
...so TODA AU....you must be Adrian?
Comments like "Seriously, If it were upto me, I'd tell you to enjoy a cup of concrete."
...and...."It's nothing personal, just a reality check."
....hmmm, sounds pretty personal to me...but don't ask the question if you don't like the answer!
But sounds to me like YOU fXXXed up TODA AU!!
...and are getting defensive......!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
And it's a shame I have to resort to my personal experience to justify my comments for TODA AU's sake.
His comments can only help to justify peoples' doubt in the product.
Shame they have people with an attitude like that involved at all, it can only be detrimental IMHO.
It takes 3 years to develop and still haven't finish.
that tells you that much about the product and ppl behind it.
sorry to hear about your experience Merlin086
This is now the 6th day of having my ECU sent away and it looks as though it still hasn't come in today's mail either.
By Monday it would have been 9 days without access to my car. :(
Such inconvenience is hugely frustrating when my ECU still hasn't been reflashed anyway.
I feel sorry for you.9 days without your car!:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukey13
Didn't get mine back today either as promised, and James has had mine for 7 weeks, not the 2 weeks I was told when the xtreme was fitted to my car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukey13
Are you driving around on the prototype extreme ECU with the check engine light on all the time and the immobiliser light flashing and not working??:thumbdwn::thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
Have been for 7 weeks, but posted the temporary ECU back to James last Thursday,8 days ago so I don't have a ECU at all now.
It's going from bad to worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
In all fairness I just had a phone call from James addressing my issues of my car being undriveable due to the harmonics inside the car, and the exhaust at 102db.
He has offered to do whatever is required within the next week to sort out my issues at no cost.
Thanks TODA AU for pissing me off so bad I let off some steam:thumbsup:
But you still need to watch that smart ass mouth!!
lol i'd hardly call him smart his an idiot if he thinks someone is just gonna sit there and do nothing while they dont have a car for so long and cant legally drive their own car
With comments that Toda AU has made (Adrian we assume) it can't be good for his business. It just might be his business that enjoys a cup of bankrupt concrete, then who'll be going the bitching.
Guys lets get back on topic here thanks
Isn't this thread about Hondata/JtuneQuote:
Originally Posted by wynode
And the posts are regarding TODA AU...ie....Adrian
Quote from Hondatech:-
.................................................. ........................
"Adrian from Toda Racing Australia insuring total product compatibility and reliability for the Australian market for all our packages."
.................................................. ........................
The comments are right on topic IMHO..........:thumbsup:
apart from the actual final product itself (when i finally received it!) i have had nothing but trouble from TODA :( its a shame, cause they seemed so nice...
No. The comment above my last reply was not. My post was just a reminder not to get carried away. If you have a problem then either PM me or post it up in the Site discussion forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
oh oh, When wynode's called in someone rung the bat phone. LOL
Anyway, back on topic ;), Has anyone we know of have a mild reflash working in their car as we speak/type? Even a prototype or test dumbies from before the launch.
Below is a thread I started this morning on the Hondatech forum (moderated by James from Jtune). I thought I'd repost it here to ask this same question of forumites on Ozhonda:
Hi everyone
I was wondering if anybody here could provide some feedback on their Mild Reflash from last week, given that Jtune began their much-awaited reflashing.
Wouldn't it be a good idea for a bit of positive discussion on how the Euro drives with the Mild Reflash; especially in terms of torque response and the lower v-tec setting? Whilst there has been a lot of criticism about the whole debacle last week of ECUs being fried by faulty Hondata equipment and delays in people getting their ECUs back, surely there's somebody out there who's getting around with the Mild Reflash now?
While I'm of course very disappointed in going 9 days without my ECU without getting the reflash done, I'm clutching at some hope that the product I'm waiting for is going to be worth the stuff-around. I was also pleased that James was honest on the phone about the situation and is refunding my money until the time that non-faulty Hondata equipment is available from the US.
So anybody out there - comments and reviews of the Mild Reflash PLEASE?!!
OK,
Im back from my OS holiday.
My ECU was fried/killed in the mild reflash process.
Im being sent a temp ECU while they get me a new ECU and the proper flash.
I'm giving james a chance to sort it properly as sometime shit happens.
That being said jtunes perfomance in resolving this not insignificant issue will be a good indication of how they will go in the long term. So we'll see. Im hopeful he will be able to sort it out for me as im still loooking forward to the reflash.
Ill keep you guys posted on how it turns out.
**** thats unlucky suntzu i wanted to see how your ride would go with the mild flash, SS headers and fujita CAI intake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
I’m happy to hear you spoke to James & have a satisfactory solution arranged. :thumbsup:
I apologize for maddening you to the point of explosion. The written word online is often more inciting than that which is spoken.
My intention was for you to contact James & bitch directly to him & perhaps I should have said just that.
In any case, now that you have spoken to James, don’t you feel better?
Regarding the cup of concrete comment
It seems at lot of you don’t speak the same colloquial language that I do. (My bad)
There is no malicious intent to send anyone to the bottom of the ocean attached.
It means quite simply to “have a cup of shut the f uck up!”
(I guess now I’m an even bigger arsehole for explaining it.)
Re problems with J-Tune etc
IMO J-Tune’s biggest mistake was releasing any information about their packages before they were 100% ready. Because of the early release of information & prototypes, customer’s expectations have grown & this has lead to a fair degree of impatience.
Combine this with a few teething problems that the end customer should never be privy too & you have the current situation of reduced confidence in the product.
This sort of thing won’t happen with the FN2 CTR products.
If thinking this makes me an idiot or a prick, then so be it.
Paragraph 3 pretty well sums it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Ok,
an update from james. Im getting my temporary mild flash ECU tommorow. its a beta tune but very similar to the final. This will get me running while they ship my new ECu and keys in 2 weeks.
So im pretty confident ill be able to report on some basic results in a few days that you might be interested in.
Should be resolved ok. cheers
sorry to bother you, but are you running any existing mods Suntzu?