before i make an order of:
10" springs
500 front / 425 rear
any advice? should i have taken measurements from point 1 or point 2?
the lowering increments on the shock body is per 1cm
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u...nncheese/P.jpg
thanks.
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before i make an order of:
10" springs
500 front / 425 rear
any advice? should i have taken measurements from point 1 or point 2?
the lowering increments on the shock body is per 1cm
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u...nncheese/P.jpg
thanks.
So you will run a rear bias setup?? (inc. ARB spring stiffness?)
Are they the PCV shocks?
Through my fiddling I've learned that there's a small window of damping settings which will behave optimally. All other settings seem to result in a chassis that just doesn't want to rotate. Drive, adjust, drive again, adjust again, repeat. It's a two variable problem which you can only solve iteratively - hold one variable constant and sweep through the other. Start with the front full-soft and sweep the rear upwards from full-soft. When you realise that full-soft front probably isn't right, up it by a tiny bit (1/8th turn max) and start the rear sweep again. Make sure you have good tyres and drive well below the limit until you're really comfortable with how the springs are affecting the balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by MM89
I don't know if that helps, but you'll absolutely know when you find the right setting when suddenly you realise "so this is how a car is supposed to respond to my inputs!" as the chassis is itching to rotate and keep rotating at the touch of steering input.... and then you adjust the height by a centimetre, change your tyre pressure by a psi or two, take out a few kg of weight from here and there and it all turns to shit. Sigh. Everything affects everything so when you find a setting you love, for the love of god don't touch anything!
Side note: Keep an eye on your front end bushings. You've substantially increased the front lateral force as a % of the total lateral force, so you're going to rape the LCA bushings.
(2) is where i would measure from, because that's where the last coil of the spring sits. looks like you have a few points to adjust the spring. i think i would go for 10" too.Quote:
Originally Posted by mocchi
so at the end, i will probably end up with rear end settings further from full soft in comparison to the front.Quote:
Originally Posted by string
I'll try and keep an eye on whatever is left in them..they've already split a fair bit. All bushings should be something on my list in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by string
Probably. There's so many variables and non-linearities that the settings are somwhat arbitrary. I wouldn't put too much stock into anything other than how it feels on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by MM89
And make sure you drive consistently to get the best 'comparison data' ie. similar rate of turn-in, speed etc.
String -- Have you worked out or seen what the optimal ride height is for a DC2 retaining the stock geometry? I can't be assed making all the measurements regarding roll centre etc & can't find a spreadsheet or whatever with them... When I say optimal, I mean lowest without needing RCA..
Also what rake do you normally run / have you found effective?
At present I have no idea what's optimal. I'm currently working on some software to find the answers and to quantify some the age-old arguments that get thrown around and some that don't come up very often. If I had to go with a hunch, I would say that if you have your dynamic corner effects in check (camber curve, ackerman/bump steer) that lower is almost always better for maximum steady state G's. Regarding transients; "optimal" has a different meaning depending on the problem at hand. Whether or not there are any sweeping generalisations to be made, I'll get back to you when I can fortify my gut feelings with evidence.
ewendc2r:
as you suggested to drive consistently with similar rates of turn in, speed etc. i have learned that the adjusters work well and provide good feedback with only small adjustments even only after a brief drive.
i repeated the same route 3 times to ensure that i was able to try and replicate the speed and drive around the same corners.
1) all dampers at full soft
2) rear dampers at 1/8 of a turn from full soft
3) rear dampers at 1/4 of a turn from full soft
with all dampers at full soft, it was simply what i had already gotten used to over the past couple of days. it wasn't the most confidence inspiring, but it was a fair step up from stock, better stability, turn in and much less body roll. the tyres and the suspension seemed to work much better together. the reason why i wasn't confident in driving it was because during mid corner, there was a feeling that one end of the car was going to give way. i never found out which end because i wasn't confident enough to drive that hard on the roads.
after a little break and some tweaking, i drove with the rear dampers at 45 degrees towards firm. to my surprise, there was a very noticeable amount of change. some of the unsettling at mid corner still existed, but was MUCH better.
for the final session, i had the rear dampers at 90 degrees towards firm and it was..good. i know it's definitely not the best settings, but i've at least come to the point where i can drive with less throttle balancing throughout the corner. the turn in is slightly more responsive and you're inspired to accelerate more and more in the corner until you're exiting and accelerate away on the straight.
this is just very simple feedback about how the dampers have changed the driving experience for me. i'm not yet capable of explaining in a more technical manner. i'll leave that to some of the other guys :)
LOL - I know what you mean by unstable -- I went to QR and forgot to take my adjuster allen key thingo.. anyhow, had full stiff at rear and nearly full soft at front. Needless to say, I got spat off the track on high speed corner once (Turn 1) and it was just SO unstable / twitchy / understeer then oversteer then back again lol..
It was actually quite dangerous. I was frustrated because it also meant it was slow.
ground control dont sell springs for stock perches.
their springs are 2.5" racing springs - what do this mean anyway?
Means they're flat on the top and bottom.
you referring to the adjustment knob?Quote:
Originally Posted by ewendc2r
is it not possible to get like an adjustable spanner to adjust these dampers?
for me, having set it a little bit firmer at the rear has made the car a bit more stable and understeer less. i haven't tried the two extremes like this, but what made you set it like so anyway?
i think ground control don't actually make springs?
eibach makes springs for them. i remember seeing a place a while ago where there was different spring rates for stock perches from different brands, i'll try and dig it up
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=68904
there we go, this should give a good idea on some of the aftermarket springs that fit the stock perch and their spring rates.
I was just doing some further reading about this setup and came across something quite interesting. I always knew that all suspension bushes should be torqued up while on the ground. However I never knew the reason why. This post from Honda tech taught me why. Refer to post #46 on page 2.
http://http://www.ht-archive.net/sho...2790061&page=2
To be honest I could never be bothered resting the car on something so I could get underneath and tighten the bolts. I will from now on though. It has made a noticeable difference to the way my car drives. It's low speed damping feels much better. Over the typical freeway dips the tyres follow the road much closer. There isn't anymore nervousness. This is based on 1/4 from full soft rebound damping. Before it almost felt like the springs were a bit too crashy for the street, but after tightening the bolts on the ground, it appeared to me the problem was actually the bushes being twisted at static ride height. The ride is very bearable. If you're like me and have been tightening shock to lca bolts and any sort of suspension bush bolts at full droop. Try this method and feel some improvement.
question:
when tightening top hat nut, how far do i tighten it to?
- until top hat sits flush with bump stop plate
- until damper shaft spins along with nut.. i guess not.
- or should i just follow oem torque setting?
stock damper has smaller shaft and nut, my damper has bigger shaft/nut (19mm socket)
i understand torque setting for stock damper nut is 3kg/mm.
btw, the ohlins were damper adjustable. more precisely i think it's rebound adjustable.
when the needle is tightened up, rebound is almost none. it doesnt rebound back. with the help of springs, i guess it would rebound but i wonder how it would feel.
when it's loosened up, rebound is quick.
from tight to loose, there is 27 clicks. hmm..
i usually just do it up finger tight to hold the tophat on, install the shock on to the car, add some pre-load by jacking up the control arm then tighten everything from top to bottom(2xtophat nuts to chassis, tophat nuts to shock, top fork to shock body, bottom fork to lca bush)
i just use my torque elbow for that top hat nut, something like finger tight plus 1/4-1/2 turn
I would like some clarification or reassurance before I buy something to fix my situation.
The rear spring (500lb - 7" length) is slightly loose at full droop. The static ride height is about 2cm higher than what I would like it to be.
I wonder if a longer spring of the same spring rate will allow me to further decrease the ride height.
I understand that helper or tender springs can result in a captive main spring with more capacity to decrease ride height by winding the GC perch lower.
However, these small springs and their spacers are more expensive than buying a pair of linear springs.
Hence I am more inclined towards purchasing a new pair of springs if that's gonna allow me to decrease the ride height.
that was my beef with my old koni/gc setup, non-captive springs at full droop
went over a bump once, big enough to dislodge it and the sleeves moved up the shock and got stuck on one side only
I guess the biggest problem here is you adjust height with just the spring itself while the shock stays the same length
so if you get a longer spring to fill that 20mm gap, it'll stay at the same ride height I think
I ended up opting for a cusco zero2 setup solely because I could adjust the height via movement of the shock itself and not the spring
though ultimate got sick of the stiffness and settled with a h&r sports cup kit and haven't looked back
can height be adjusted using the koni yellow shocks with springs?
yeah, slightly
Cusco's are a good 1st coilover to own.Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnY
after that, you want a little more.
Damn that sucks. So helper springs are the only way?
i'd say so, but as you found out pretty exxy