u mad , did you buy the byp boys k24 package?
pretty long private road to do 200+ lol jks
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u mad , did you buy the byp boys k24 package?
pretty long private road to do 200+ lol jks
Always the same rubbish... Obviously nobody knows that a D-Series pwns ALL!
nah gsi-psi i got a there jdm k20 to keep it legal for p plates, couldn't be happier
nice choice haha, how you liking the 6-gears?, 3rd gear is awesome aye just pulls so quick..
pics!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by u mad?
man i love the 6 speed. so smooth and the ratios are excellent!Quote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
yeah 3 gear is amazing, but then again so is 2nd... and 4th and 5th! lol even 6th, it just keeps pulling
http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/...3072011060.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Vvvtec
Mmmmmm nice... I really must try the K some day. I'll never do a B or D N/A again. Either K or boost/Nissan.
That's sick as u mad. So good.
K series is definitely the way to go these days. no doubt whatsoever. Luckily for everyone else, the more popular and common K swaps get, the more costs/prices are inevitably going to come down.
It's hard to believe that the K series is already a decade old!
you have to experiance it for your self to see what its like, no doubt you'll want to go k after that drive lolQuote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
thanks man!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vvvtec
As my sig says, I need both, revs and boost! The R for revs, throttle response and nimble, lithe handling, a bigger turbo'd 2.5L XT Forester for boost, lunching on V8's, overtaking and gravel runs!
H cars still do what no others do!!
cant see the picture~!
shattered.
can the standard fuel pumps in either ek or dc support the k20? or did u upgrade it? And was it necessary to swap the FPR, since u have aftermarket one, cheers man, interesting to read up about k20 swaps :D
^^ actually yeh, im interested too... it would seem the regulator would be changed in order to tune it properly?
what are the chances you could giv us a write up of the parts you used or PM *enter nervous laugh here* ahaha
that is, if its ok with you of course.
a wrx is 100kg heavier (give or take depending on the model)
& to stay side by side is very good... in my books at least.
Well I've gotta say, 140ish? Kw at the wheels n/a keeping side by side with a 180kw turbo awd is very good in my books :)
But yeah, u mad I'm MEGA keen to know details, I'm planning on going K within the next year :)
The stock fuel pump is sufficient enough for a standard K-swap. Yes its neccessary to run a FPRQuote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
Depending on model WRX. The early model wrx are quite light and with 180kw there quite fast. Had a ek k24 (140kw atw) raced my mates wrx 05 with 175kw atw (@ WSID) he pulled 2 car lenghts.Quote:
Originally Posted by _bORdO_
yeh your right i think the 05 WRX are just under 1.2TQuote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz39
your ek would weigh..? around 1.1T..? somewhere there, so i think you did very well also.
p.s
i think we've hijacked this thread completely
:wave:
This thread is in desperate need of moderation...
Too much piss & dribble & way off topic.
Toda post the 170kw b series for reference sake in here :P
Can anybody tell me if theres a handling difference due to more weight of the k series being over the nose? I know k series is quicker in a straight line but how useable is the power when cornering? K series lap times that much higher than bseries?
Apparently not that much heavier than a B-series and handles well. This is just what I've heard, not talking from experience.
Isn't the K series actually lighter than the B series?
that was b20, should compare it with b16 for proper eg/ek weight comparison.Quote:
Citation Envoyé par locash of Honda-Tech.com
As I was removing the B20VTEC from my 99 Integra to install a JDM K20A with the new Hasport EG/DC K-Series mount kit (shameless plug), it dawned on me that I still had not seen any real numbers regarding the weight differences of these things. I dug out my trusty Longacre corner balance scales, zero'd them out, and tossed the motors on em. I made sure to take pictures of the scale readings, name them, save them to the pc, and clear out the camera before I did the 2nd motor. I also tried to keep the motors as similiar as possible, neither had an exhaust manifold of any kind, or an A/C compressor. The B-Series motor DID have a power steering pump, and the A/C torque mount, so factor in 5 lbs or so on top of the numbers below..
B-Series engine/trans: 401 pounds
K-Series engine/trans: 403 pounds
In conclusion, these are surprising numbers, I figured (like most I bet) that the K-Series motor would be lighter. I'll weigh a few more B and K series swaps in the coming weeks and see what else I find.
With a few tweaks to the suspension to compensate for the extra weight on the driver side, the K-series does not put off the balance. Check out the lap times for all K-series cars vs B-series.Quote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
How about weight over the nose causing understeer? Mounting angle leans it over there right? Not to mention the manifold etc.. On that side too.
With regards to power, my eg has b18cr struggles to put the power down under hard cornering so I'd imagine the extra power from a k is useless other than in a straight line. Even with good suspension setup I could never imagine it being useable power in the bends
Its all in the suspension setup. We have no issues with understeer and putting the power down with 280kw's. You gotta remember your foot controls wheelspin as well. A good suspension set-up will do wonders!Quote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
^^
Get a LSD, control your throttle, check alignment, get better tyres and suspension.
It's all relative. Common sense.
Add to that, it's still N/A. Power is linear, unlike a low comp turbo motor. If you're still wheel spinning after than, then you're not doing it right.
That's the point I'm making, if you can't use all the throttle on a b18 what good is having more power in the corners
really man? think about your question...Quote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
do you think F1 drivers go full throttle in hard corners?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
No they dont & they have the best rated tires and most probably suspension set ups also
if you were using all the throttle going in2 a corner you'd have one bloody slow arse car there...
lol i guess youve never been on a track beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
Ok slighty off topic, but how does the Civic Sports K20 compare to that of the Euro K24? Besides the obvious, higher torque rating and power, an better gears..... I havent heard much talk from these newer K20, despite the fact that a older B16a2 makes the exact same power with much less displacement, kinda of a step back imo with the newer gen civic sports.
hahaha crobaa = 0, bordo = 1Quote:
Originally Posted by _bORdO_
Slow in, fast out - not the other way around. Of course the better your brakes are the faster you can go in...
But hey guys, let's keep on topic (if possible).
I know how to drive in a corner, I'm just saying that without a pretty decent suspension setup you won't be able to use the additional power of a k series in a tight corner. Of course everyone on the forum is Michael Schumacher when their behind a keyboard and screen though
Well man, if you've got the cash to go K swap, I don't think you'll cheap out on something fundamental such as suspension and brake setup. I do understand what your trying to say though.
the fd2 has a diff head set up, like the k20a3, built for fuel efficiency :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
This is turning into a good little discussion, personally I like the B series, it's shouty, raw and unrefined - feels like a bit of an animal trying to relentlessly get out from the car. Whereas the K series is refined, smoother changeover, not quite as high in the revs, but still - you look down briefly at the speedo and think 'already doing XXk's, what the!'.
They both have their good points, and I agree with Mr Toda that both engines when built up cleverly/right would still have their own highlights.
without decent suspension you wont be able to use the power of a d or b series in a corner..Quote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
Ive swapped my b series for a k series because of the time it would make up on the straights. Obviously corner speeds would be around the same if i was to use the same chassis setup.
And LOL at needing to be schumi to understand simple things like this.
There is one secret to Honda performance....
Fit the biggest motor into the lightest chasis, period!
Hondas are fairly well tuned from factory and it takes a tone of money to get it slightly better in NA form.
Capacity is king...
If you have been on the forum as long as I have, it has progressed from: D16Y<B16A<B18C<B20frank<H2B<K20<K24.
The main reason hondas are getting faster is only because engines are getting bigger...
Good examples: Have you ever seen a NA b16a off its chops? would proabably get beaten by an unmoded H2b ehehehe
theres no replacement for displacement :)
Words of a smart man... every year someone will figure a way to get more capacity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Brightside
If honda ever made a K30, no one would ever consider the k20 or K24 ever again ehheheh
Well its only a matter of time until j swaps start coming up more.
I tend to disagree, there just arnt that many quality builds due to budget or where people spend their money, which is fair enough, we all have one and people choose who they think will be the best for the job, other issue is a lot of people believe everything they read and if they have those parts and put it together, they should make decent power, which is rarely the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Brightside
Displacement however, especially in the case of a K24, is cheap power for the money, you cannot argue that.
Soon ill be putting a 1.8ltr B18 togther on what i think is a very low to average spend for building a motor and hope to get somewhere up near that 140 range which few do after spending alot more money, will be sure to have it up when done. :thumbsup:
There are plenty of those V6 engined EG's on youtube from the US. Bigger displacement might make faster in a drag but def not when it comes to the balance needed for high speed cornering and track-work.
Now, I think that earlier I posted a question about the legality, even with a mod-plate, of a 2.4L EG (which is a 50% increase in capacity from largest engine fitted to this model). I thought the regs said 15% or so??? I must be wrong! Explain ! ? !
The 15% rule applies to engine changes of the same make fitted to a vehicle until a engineers report is required as due to the capacity increase you will have to now address suspension to carry the extra weight, braking capacity and so on, not much different to the rules of fitting a turbo in the eyes of the rta and rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by iijjee
OK! That's clear! I think I remember now that un-engineered changes up to 15% over the max capacity normally fitted to that chassis (from the same manufacturer) don't need engineering.
I just wondered, since the EG and DC2 chassis are meant to be the same (???) whether the 15% would reach to 1.15 times 1834cc (or whatever the capacity of DC2 and DC2R's are) which is just over 2.1L, therefore - technically - allowing the use of a K20 in an EG.
Or is it the model, not the chassis that engineers would look at???
They look at the capacity of the motor fitted to the vehicle you are trying to pass, so 1.5 or 1.6 EG, max motor 1.725ltr or 1.84ltr if fitted with a 1.6, so no k20 allowed without engineering it.
Dc2 being a B18 and 1.8, 2.07 ltrs allowable so K20 no prob.
OK! So DC2 base makes more sense for a K swap unless ultimate weight reduction or registration are not an issue you care about!
Good to know!
I know 1.8 internals fit in 1.6 block so you can register the car as a 1.6 even though it's really 1.8. Wonder if k24 internals fit in a k20?
Rumor mill.... Maybe only b16b... B16a is a shorter blockQuote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
Don't compare it to cast iron American metal blocks... B18c and k24 don't weigh that much differentQuote:
Originally Posted by iijjee
How about increasing bore/stroke on k20?
mugen has done it already with their RR. 2.2 Litre Stroker kit on the JDM K20A
180kw
http://www.zcars.com.au/images/civic...rr-engine1.jpg
Is the kit available for purchase? It's probably a huge rip off anyway. I'm sure another company would make a kit for it too
2.4l bottom end??
I think some of the B16B internals might fit into a B18C, but B16A I doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
D17 SOHC crank definitely fits into the D16 SOHC block so you can run a D17Y1/Y8 etc while it's registered as a 1.6. WOTAM though, and nobody would be able to realise how 'cool' your setup is <lol>
Just get a real stroker kit with new pistons etc...
You can put a 89mm B20,GSi Crank into the B16B making it a ~1.9L
Toda make that kit fitted to the mugen car.Quote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
Also as far as bore and stroke increases, via sleeves and crank, it can all be done, B series can go 86 x 95 if displacement is what you're after.
back on topic.. 140kw would be pretty hard to get without good increases to compression to run agro cams..
best cams u can run without high comp pistons would be ~bspec (with matching valve train). Expect 120-130kw depending on dyno.
in saying that, how far can u stroke a b-series? 2.1? 2.2 liters? But also boring out the block?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaz
Getting K24A3 from Honda Accord Euro is still the best bang for your bucks to increase displacement.Quote:
Originally Posted by crobaa
Price started from $1000 - 1700 for the long block only and you dont need k20a head.
Just upgrade your valve train and you can push it to 8000 rpm.
Question should be "Will a 140kw B series beat a 140kw K series? "
Shall we put a poll up? LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
Pretty sure I have a mag somewhere of a bloke who has an EG with a B18CR stroked to 2.1L with ITR cams and upgraded valvetrain. Allegedly it chomped a few EVO's.
Probably would on STD... But the evo with egay Ihe and tune would be about 200kw atw on all 4... Also the traction out of corners ... And the launch at the drags...Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
Yeah, hence I use the word 'allegedly'. I'm sure an EVO would have so much more potential and would be a much better car to build for the track, even an EVO1 (so sexy).
You know the answer is no.Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz39
Tis all about the gearing!
Rolled up against a K24 EG and won BUT!! It was a 5spd. If 6spd, no chance.
To a point, you’re right cause for many it is really hard for many to meet a 140kw power target without upping the compression,Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
But in reality, it’s not really that hard at all… & here’s how you do it.
Using an AUDM B18C7 engine as an example, the only things that need to be changed are as follows:
Spec B cams, springs, pulleys / Mugen airbox (A real one, not a copy)
TODA header (Not a copy or cheap substitute) / 60mm ~65mm exhaust system & 100cel metal cat
ECU, fuel pump & fuel pressure regulator
& the key... (This is what gets you over the line) - CNC 5 angle valve job
The angles used are quite different to the std 3 angle (30deg / 45deg / 60deg) seats found in the B.
The benefit is greatly improve flow a low lift values.
This combined with “secret squirrel” to the intake ports is all that need to be done. (Some things are secret :zip:)
+ Obviously a good tune
Done right, you’ll hit 140kw every time
Also for 140 at the wheels with a std bottom end B18C7, what you don’t need to do is:
Port the head / Change the intake manifold / Change the throttle body / Use plastic intake gaskets / Fit wacky earth kits
Slaz just told you, 86mm bore & 95mm stroke which works out to 2207ccQuote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
Maybe ok for drag racing but not ideal for circuit use.
IMO, the best B-series combo by a long way is 85mm bore & 87.2mm stroke – 1979cc
Stock bottom end B18C2 with 140kw...
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ndatory/page46
how much does boring cost generally? do you always check for straightness of deck and measure bore size after boring?Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Depending on who & how it's done,Quote:
Originally Posted by mocchi
You can spend anywhere from $80 to $450 on a bore & hone for an inline 4cyl engine.
Cheap end is straight bore & hone, upper end is bore & hone with dummy head attached. (Incl plateau hone - 0.0001" tolerance)
Deck check - always...
Measure - always....
Never trust the machine shop, even if you work there :p
every single time you speak adrian it always somehow makes me want to spend money :(
139kw stock bottom end B18C7 dyno sheet added...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexplicit
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...07#post3073407
NB, this was using my previous porting method which worked quite well.
But my new "secrect squirel :zip:" method works better... :thumbsup:
Lock me for trying the new squirel on a basic budget build for my daily, will be in touch soon Adrian! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU