Subframe/swaybar 101 EK/EM/EJ

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Originally Posted by BlitZ

True that would work..
You are moving the D bracket mount outwards.. allowing mroe tension on the subframe ears...

this would weakin the integrity of the kit...

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in effect what i am doing, would be the same as using the regular asr kit, with a slightly longer plate with the d bracket mounts out further. i fail to see how this changes the integrity anywhere in the brace, frame or bolts.

with the brace its tons harder to dammage the subframe cus its gotta tear out HUGE chunks of the frame insted of just plucking holes. This fact dosnt change nomatter how the bar is connected to the brace.

if the frame was to fracture with the whiteline mounts bolted on to the asr kit, it would have done the same without.

Im gunnna print this out and ask my lecturers view anyway, just to be on the safe side.

the only reason i wanna get the swaybar to line up with the holes in the asr brace and not use the brackets that you have is for a cleaner look. and also as long as it does the job then im happy.

yeh id way prefer to just be using the asr brace aswell.

give me a few days and ill work it out how to not use the brackets and ill let you all know.

whiteline had to make mine up cus the dont keep them in stock, maby theres a small chance they can do a one off so its just straight without those two small bends??

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Originally Posted by Muzz

whiteline had to make mine up cus the dont keep them in stock, maby theres a small chance they can do a one off so its just straight without those two small bends??

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have u boys tried comparing the whiteline integra bar?

thats my idea already but i dont know what a integra swaybar looks like here is a pic of the asr brace with a ITR swaybar that you can buy but i did not buy it that way. the swaybar and the endlinks need to look the same can anyone with a teg please have a look to see if they are the same.

http://www.a-spec-racing.com/data/product2_detail.jpg

dont ring whiteline waste of time trying to explain what i want im just going to go ahead and buy the parts i need ill let you all know how i go with it.

the end links featured are ek4 endlinks.

yeh i figured that one out i had a look at the honda EPC they are not cheap from honda either $152 a peice.

yeah and the ebay ones are almost the same price (shipped).

I am wondering why you are not usng the whiteline ones that come with the kit? they do almost the same job

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Originally Posted by LowEk

yeh i figured that one out i had a look at the honda EPC they are not cheap from honda either $152 a peice.

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not using the whitline ones cos you will need a ITR swaybar with EK4 endlinks and you cannot buy it in a kit form like that from whiteline so you will need to use the standard ek4 endlinks.

the question you should ask yourself is....
"does the whiteline Teg sway bar mount where the ITR swaybar mount ?" And there are enouhg pictures to draw a good conclusion

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Originally Posted by LowEk

thats my idea already but i dont know what a integra swaybar looks like here is a pic of the asr brace with a ITR swaybar that you can buy but i did not buy it that way. the swaybar and the endlinks need to look the same can anyone with a teg please have a look to see if they are the same.

http://www.a-spec-racing.com/data/product2_detail.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlitZ

the question you should ask yourself is....
"does the whiteline Teg sway bar mount where the ITR swaybar mount ?" And there are enouhg pictures to draw a good conclusion

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^^^^^^this is the exact same thing that the whiteline guy was asking and im not sure he could not even tell me if the whiteline swaybar looked the same as this one in the pic :thumbdwn: but i would it have to cos i would say that the "D" brackets mount on the straight part on the inside. im just going to go ahead and do it ill let you know how i go when i get all the parts i need.

there is the option of getting an engineering place or yourself and drilling holes for the whiteline d brackets say 2" inward on the asr brace, and mounting the brackets on the inside of the two small bends. but ud need to check clearances of the bolts on the rear.

nar that woulnt work, it brings the bar to far forward where parts of it'll rub on the brace. could maby be done with 4-5mm plates between brackets and brace to move the bar back out.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7/IMG_1799.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7/IMG_1794.jpg

doin this will put more force on the d brackets as they are closer to the torque centre of the swaybar tho. It wont change the force on the subframe nor will having them further out as i have confirmed.

yeh that wont work cos you need to use a ITR bar. ill let you know when i do it. i have it already worked out in my head i just have to get the parts and do it.

sweet

just sell the whiteline bar back out for 160 and buy an itr bar for 120 and use the extra cas on somthing else

any updates fellas?... getting interested in this topic as i also plan on a similar upgrade.

i have not fitted my brace yet as im selling my car im not going to fit it so im selling my brace just pm if anyone is intrested. i have figured out the brace and swaybar prob thou to fix the problem above you will need a DC2R swaybar with EK4 swaybar endlinks and D brackets and bushes and this should all bolt up and fix the above problem.

I got the ASR reinforcements on my EK with CTR rear sway bar, fits perfect. Both CTR and ITR bars will work very well.

does anyone know if i can buy the rings that go onto the ITR/CTR sway bar for EK endlink install?

i jsut mashed the busshing abit... i want to remove the bushing there and install it solid like how it is suppose to be


I want to buy this... dont know where.. or even make it

http://a-spec-racing.com/data/product2_detail_2.jpg

they look like the same spacers that come with the subframe brace i wondered what they were for now i know sorry im not going to sell them out of my kit. try a machine shop or a nut and bolt shop maybe.

hey barfootbonzai.. heheeh

you arent using yours are u? as i think the CTR sway doesnt require the the special washers hahah... caring to sell them for a mint...

Guys, just curious, and a little confused - what does the ASR subframce brace do that the Whiteline rear lower tie bar doesn't?

It's just that from the pics of the whiteline sway bar/tie bar combo on the first page, and pics of the ASR brace on subsequent pages, they appear to do the same/similar job?

I'm looking at purchasing the whiteline 22m adjustable rear sway and lower tie combo for my EK1 sedan, but I wanna do my research first and make sure I'm not going to tear my subframe apart....BTW, my car came standard without a rear swaybar.

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Originally Posted by DomenEK

Guys, just curious, and a little confused - what does the ASR subframce brace do that the Whiteline rear lower tie bar doesn't?

It's just that from the pics of the whiteline sway bar/tie bar combo on the first page, and pics of the ASR brace on subsequent pages, they appear to do the same/similar job?

I'm looking at purchasing the whiteline 22m adjustable rear sway and lower tie combo for my EK1 sedan, but I wanna do my research first and make sure I'm not going to tear my subframe apart....BTW, my car came standard without a rear swaybar.

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Well if i were you i would go with what has been proven time and again(ASR). The whiteline looks just like the Comptech unit and it appearance seems to show an inferior product to the ASR, but a superior product to nothing. The ASR will put the force over a larger portion. The ASR brace is also made to be used with many aftermarket as well as OEM pieces and also has the option for the big 32mm RACE bar.


*bennjamin edit Keep it to PM thanks*

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Originally Posted by suprfast

Well if i were you i would go with what has been proven time and again(ASR). The whiteline looks just like the Comptech unit and it appearance seems to show an inferior product to the ASR, but a superior product to nothing. The ASR will put the force over a larger portion. The ASR brace is also made to be used with many aftermarket as well as OEM pieces and also has the option for the big 32mm RACE bar. PM me if you want a price on the ASR bar. Im a dealer for them here in the states and have a large qty of them. Ask around, im a stand up guy.
Kris

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So I keep hearing:thumbsup:!

I'll shoot you a pm shortly.

Stops this from happening :eek:

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/2135/noasr16em.jpg

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Originally Posted by BlitZ

hey barfootbonzai.. heheeh

you arent using yours are u? as i think the CTR sway doesnt require the the special washers hahah... caring to sell them for a mint...

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I was gonna PM you about them, but i used 2 as washers hahaha. PM me if you're really desperate and i guess i could take them out for you. Make it worth my while :p

Guys, another quick Q:

How does the ASR Brace/ITR rear sway bar kit compare with the whiteline kit?

So many options out there. I'm definately going for th ASR brace, but just want to clarify which swaybar would be better, the whiteline 22mm adjustable, or the ITR sway that comes as a kit with the ASR brace...

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Originally Posted by DomenEK

Guys, another quick Q:

How does the ASR Brace/ITR rear sway bar kit compare with the whiteline kit?

So many options out there. I'm definately going for th ASR brace, but just want to clarify which swaybar would be better, the whiteline 22mm adjustable, or the ITR sway that comes as a kit with the ASR brace...

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I would go with the itr or ctr bar, as you potentially have problems with the whiteline bar fitting. The issue is that there is a bend in the whiteline bar where it meets the brace and without modifying something (and potentially loosing the strength of the brace) you may not get it to fit.

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Originally Posted by suprfast

Well if i were you i would go with what has been proven time and again(ASR). The whiteline looks just like the Comptech unit and it appearance seems to show an inferior product to the ASR, but a superior product to nothing. The ASR will put the force over a larger portion. The ASR brace is also made to be used with many aftermarket as well as OEM pieces and also has the option for the big 32mm RACE bar. PM me if you want a price on the ASR bar. Im a dealer for them here in the states and have a large qty of them. Ask around, im a stand up guy.
Kris

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... the comptech unit will work as well as the ASR one.... which is far superior to the whiteline one

the comptech and ASR ktis both offer solid connections and placed the moutning holes close then the whiteline one..

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Originally Posted by Zdster

I would go with the itr or ctr bar, as you potentially have problems with the whiteline bar fitting. The issue is that there is a bend in the whiteline bar where it meets the brace and without modifying something (and potentially loosing the strength of the brace) you may not get it to fit.

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Ok, cool.

If the ASR brace/ITR swaybar kit is adjustable (i.e. the swaybar is adjustable [comes with adjustable end links?]), then I will opt for this (Kris [suprfast]is getting back to me on this).

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Originally Posted by DomenEK

Ok, cool.

If the ASR brace/ITR swaybar kit is adjustable (i.e. the swaybar is adjustable [comes with adjustable end links?]), then I will opt for this (Kris [suprfast]is getting back to me on this).

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adjustable end links? u mean the extra holes at the end of the sway bar (like the whiteline one)?

adjustability isnt good... it causes the arms to not sit directly vertical...... whiteline recommends stacking the washer out the back of the control arms so the arms sit upright.. heheeh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DomenEK

Guys, another quick Q:

How does the ASR Brace/ITR rear sway bar kit compare with the whiteline kit?

So many options out there. I'm definately going for th ASR brace, but just want to clarify which swaybar would be better, the whiteline 22mm adjustable, or the ITR sway that comes as a kit with the ASR brace...

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i got the Asr brace with the whiteline 22mm adjustable swaybar on my ek 4hatch. I can tell you now that the whiteline bar wont work with the asr brace without modification. this is because where the d brackets and bushings go on the asr brace, there are small bends on the swaybar. the brackets & bushings need to be further out or further in on the swaybay. i cant explain this well but there are pics earlyer on in this thread.

i would try get the asr brace & itr bar combo.:thumbsup:

ok so sure the ASR leads in bracing, but i was thinking of being different and running all BEAKS products. including: subframe reinforcement kit and lower tie bar. i have heard that you need to drill out larger holes for the reinforcement kit to properly fit, is this true?

so has any of guys tried doing it this way did it work properly as i got my 22mm sway and asr brace sitting and wanting to install it just want to double check if i should do it that way

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Originally Posted by Muzz

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7/IMG_1766.jpg
Mounting bracket for whiteline kit, and with tubes removed^^^^

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7/IMG_1768.jpg

This is the only way i can see to mount the whiteline bar to the asr brace, as the bar has slight bends in it where the d bracket and bushing would go when using the normal mounting holes on the asr brace( look at 2nd photo). i cant think of anyother way. As you can see, the bar will be about 3mm rearward of its origional spot, this wont have and negative impact will it?

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I am also planning to put in CTR rear sway and researching on information regarding to the "reinforcement". It seems that ASR is the best to go for. wellz, I personally like the Beak's most...it just looks great. lol

The CTR rear sway is about $250 with every thing that i need but the ASR cost somewhere about $250 to $300. Is there any other product that can do the job?

And i also comes with another question, the 22mm swaybar does tear out the subframe so we need to put in something like ASR to make it strong. So what about the CTR itself? Is the subframe from CTR is different from EK4 or EK1 so that we have to put in the ASR?

For the new design of the Whiteline kit, it looks a bit like the ASR kit.
Would it means that it is better now and not tearing out the subframe?

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Originally Posted by 929

For the new design of the Whiteline kit, it looks a bit like the ASR kit.
Would it means that it is better now and not tearing out the subframe?

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...NO it is actualyl quite the same as the old kit.

Why ?

Because the actual mounting to the subframe , is exactly the same as the old kit. And there is no "Backing plate" to further spread the load out.

it just looks blingy , IMO expect the same subframe issues in a few months/years time.

Are there any cases of the whiteline product tearing a subframe? There's so much negativity in here yet no links to problems? Infact, is there ANY evidence of subframe while using a reinforcement kit which incorporates the LCA bolt. Here's my opinions of the whole swaybar reinforcement idea.

When one wheel is forced into bump, the swaybar will try to pull up and away from the subframe through the D-bracket. Facing the hubs, you have a large vertical force upwards, and a smaller horizontal force away (relative magnitude depending on the location and orientation of the endlink and the relative positions of the swaybar mounting points on the D-bracket and LCA). The other side of the swaybar will see the opposite forces.

With just a D-bracket on the subframe, it's easy to visualise how a large vertical force will create a torque about either the upper or lower bolt depending on which side you are looking at for a given movement. You can test this with your hands - make a solid D-shape with your index finger and thumb and place it on your desk. Put another finger in the D and push on the inside of your index finger to simulate the swaybar.

When the LCA bolt is incorporated it will take the vertical load in it's stride. I guess it all comes down to, how well can the LCA subframe mounting bolt take unintended loads. It is clear that this section will be subjected to high levels of compression and tension through the axis of the axel - how strong is it under vertical compression and tension?

I've have the whiteline kit on my DA for over 2 years now. Until that LCA bolt moves, the rest of it is not budging a nanometre.

i am in the same boat as string. 22mm bar on a da9. i am yet to see tearing. however the day i hear about it from string mine will be coming off quick smart.

further to that, if you look here http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53696 youll see that the bolts going through the subframe are in fact inside the LCA bolt. Doubt there would be any forces from driving on public roads that could pull basically that entire ear off.

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Originally Posted by string

Are there any cases of the whiteline product tearing a subframe? There's so much negativity in here yet no links to problems? Infact, is there ANY evidence of subframe while using a reinforcement kit which incorporates the LCA bolt.

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You really havent done much reading. There are numerous documented cases where the subframe has literally had a whole chunk ripped out of it.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...teline+swaybar
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...teline+swaybar

The subframes we are talking about here are EK's and EG's.

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Originally Posted by Mr_will

i am in the same boat as string. 22mm bar on a da9. i am yet to see tearing. however the day i hear about it from string mine will be coming off quick smart.

further to that, if you look here http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53696 youll see that the bolts going through the subframe are in fact inside the LCA bolt. Doubt there would be any forces from driving on public roads that could pull basically that entire ear off.

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It is irrelevant that it goes through the LCA. All of them do. You should read up on here and honda-tech about ripped/torn subframes and you will see exactly what the problem is!

Also, by the time that you see tearing/ripping, it is to late anyway.

string i have personally taken 8 whiteline swaybars off EK' with wrecked subframes from the product. I have also taken 2 off DC's for hte same reason. I have heard of multiple instances elsewhere on this forum , and outside too.
Its plain and simple a badly designed and manufactured product. The new kit fails to fix the fundamental problems of it. Whiteline should copy closer to the ASR kit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ics-new132.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...A/IMG_7772.jpg

http://mestiso.net/photogallery/ek/CIMG1511.jpg

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Originally Posted by bennjamin

string i have personally taken 8 whiteline swaybars off EK' with wrecked subframes from the product. I have also taken 2 off DC's for hte same reason. I have heard of multiple instances elsewhere on this forum , and outside too.
Its plain and simple a badly designed and manufactured product. The new kit fails to fix the fundamental problems of it. Whiteline should copy closer to the ASR kit.

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I did not realise that there exists a different version to the one myself and mr_will use. We both have square brackets with the D-bracket mounting in line with the LCA bolt, and the attachment bolts on the inside of the LCA bolt. It's very obvious that the design that pushes the D-bracket out to the edge with the LCA bolt on the far opposite corner is terrible - did these only apply to EK/EG? Having the swaybar mounting point on the outside is asking for trouble regardless.

Do you have any photos of tear outs with the rectangular plates? I'd like to see what direction the bolts were pulling - mine is solid as a rock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by string

I did not realise that there exists a different version to the one myself and mr_will use. We both have square brackets with the D-bracket mounting in line with the LCA bolt, and the attachment bolts on the inside of the LCA bolt. It's very obvious that the design that pushes the D-bracket out to the edge with the LCA bolt on the far opposite corner is possibly the stupidest design i've ever seen - did these only apply to EK?

Do you have any photos of tear outs with the rectangular plates? I'd like to see what direction the bolts were pulling - mine is solid as a rock.

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The stupid design you speak of is the EK design. The ED/DC also had a similar design , but with the swaybar mounting itself inline with the reinforcement too. Alittle more reliable but still prone to tear out.
Appears to be a different design to what you And Mr will use.

We've got the DC bar, BHR36Z or something like that.

I don't know about Mr_Will but I use the whiteline tie-bar too, preloaded to give a fair bit of tension between the plates.

Info here is top stuff :thumbsup:

Wouldn't it be possible to recreate this backing plate which the whiteline kit is missing? Just grab some sheet alum, cut to the right spec and then secure using a nut/bolt system vs a threaded backing plate (like the ASR)?

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Originally Posted by string

We've got the DC bar, BHR36Z or something like that.

I don't know about Mr_Will but I use the whiteline tie-bar too, preloaded to give a fair bit of tension between the plates.

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Do you have a picture of the kit installed? I am curious to see what it looks like.

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Originally Posted by SiReal

Info here is top stuff :thumbsup:

Wouldn't it be possible to recreate this backing plate which the whiteline kit is missing? Just grab some sheet alum, cut to the right spec and then secure using a nut/bolt system vs a threaded backing plate (like the ASR)?

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It would have to be a pretty thick piece of aluminum (especially after seeing the ASR backing piece).

you COULD fabricate something - but you need to extend the existing U bolt (on the old kit) -

i've seen both the new and old kits and they both aren't really good. (on Ek anyway)
ASR is the only real improvement

btw, the guy who did the ASR with the ground off Whiteline old bits, good job. I never thought of doing that, i might mod mine in the same way now.
I think its got an improvement over my setup, i.e new U brackets just bolting onto ASR

U cant modify the whitline one and use the ASR kit.. you are just wrecking it by moving the mounts outwards causing tearing at the ears.

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Not giving myself a free plug..

I made a custom kit myself and its way better than whiteline..

Its actually up for sale for $300 with ITR sway bar and everything

The reason why mine is better than whitline is that it super imposing the holes bring them ontop and not off the side .

I've tracked the crap out of it and my subframe is perfect ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...8/DSCF3896.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...8/IMG_4513.jpg

DIY is better than whiteline....lol. Shows the amount of design thought put into the whiteline kit.

BTW i would avoid using the whiteline mounting shaved and relocated onto the ASR kit - this still has a main flaw of the whiteline kit and will no doubt still "tear out" the ASR or subframe in time.

thread revival.... Anyone know the part number for Ek9 Rear swaybar D bush brackets? i ordered some through honda, i dont think the guy knew what i wanted as instead he got me Ek4 brackets :S