yeah it is the right way up.. really dunno y everytime the sticker is upside down.. my sticker came upside down also but i peel it out n stick it back the right way up :thumbsup:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...0171Medium.jpg
Printable View
yeah it is the right way up.. really dunno y everytime the sticker is upside down.. my sticker came upside down also but i peel it out n stick it back the right way up :thumbsup:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...0171Medium.jpg
yeah mines upside down too, it confused me for a while when i was installing it. There instructions are pathetic.
lol...mine 1 is even worst..found out tat 2 metal tubes were missed out from the package..
It's buddyclub cat back exhaust with silencer attached on the muffler (peehole)
:thumbsup:
i can't stand the noise, i initially wanted fujitsubo power getter, but my friend bought me this one for cheeeeeep.
yeah thought that might be the case:thumbsup:
Hi here is a quick pic of my brace, thats the only one i got at the moment, notice how it bolts to the chasis via heavy duty bracket instead of subframe, i will provide feedback when i get my car on the road http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...Picture009.jpg
Wow thats real nice man, looks real sturdy! is that the asr 32mm hollow swaybar, or did u piece the bar/arms/bushings together from a race parts supply store?
Yeah thats the ASR kit doesnt look like $833 does it (cry), see how it performs when i get the car going, later.
looks great
where are the chasis holes drilled?
Hi ,it uses the standard mounting spot of DA integras and early civics and crx's but with a heavy duty bracket, later.
Yeah its a litttle expensive to get the asr kit sent over, i was looking at the asr kit till i found out the price to get it on my doorstep:eek: . Absolutly top notch qualitly ive heard though:thumbsup: . Im looking at putting somthing together along those lines fromQuote:
Originally Posted by TEGNO1
http://www.1speedway.com/Online_Catalog.htm they sell the hollow 1.25" splined bars in various lengths, bushings, arms etc for a cheaper price.
Do you mind me asking what ur swaybar mounts are made of, and how they perform. The reason i ask is that the speedway engineering bushings are a bronze liner, cushioned by a thin layer of rubber, i believe the ASR kit uses the same style mounts? Do they require any form of lubriation, and do they make any excessive grinding noises being metal on metal? im guessing not. they offer a choice of the plain bushins as above, but also simular ones with a grease nipple which seems to push grease between the bronze lining, and the swaybar, but if there are no excessive gringing issues with the plain bushings, id probably stick to them.
Cheers
The kit itself without swaybar should cost around 320AU to your door. Thats the price of purchasing 3 at a time.
Sorry im confused, what does that 320 buy you? The quote i got from asr was like 530US or somthing for the swaybar kit (without brace). Iv got an ek and already have an asr subframe brace. Im after a swaybar, 2 arms, 2 mounts, 2 lockcollars, 2 endlinks, which ill be getting from speedway engineering.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOWEGG
What he got was only the mega brace thing. No endlinks, thats probably why the price is diffferentQuote:
Originally Posted by Muzz
ahhhh i see, cheers for clearing that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by riceball
The swaybarbar mounts are some sort of solid bush, as far as im aware of they dont require lubrication, i let you know how the kit performs when i get the car back on the road, havnt driven it yet, i wish i could help you with the measurements as that website you provided can put together the same thing, but your car is a bit different because your bar mounts on the subframe with brace and mine mounts on the chassis with heavyduty brackets, this would mean that your arms would be shorter, if you find someone with the kit on a EK ask him to measure it all up and you can put a kit together yourself cheaper, My kit come with the bar,solid mounting brackets and bushes, aluminium arms with 4 holes to adjust stiffeness, spherical aurora links and the steel brackets which hold the bar on, i wont forget to get back to you with feedback and if you have any other questions about the kit feel free to ask, i'll also provide more pics when i get some, later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzz
Any traders on Ozhonda dealing with ASR or can bring these bracing kits in?
My car makes alot of clunking and banging from the rear, maybe it's too late T.T
cheers mate, im reaaly keen to here how it performs for you.
If you want ASR brace, PM EG5 (Jdm yard)
tried out the swaybar yet tegno1?
Not yet: sent my shocks back to get shortened,
so my cars on stands at the momment,
cant wait to go wakefield when all done,
still need to do heads and cams,
getting front swaybar,
get rego,
pay for house,
lots of saving to do,
trying reaaly hard to get in on the road though,
can i hit someone up for a no payback loan, common im good for it,
sorry, i wont forget to let you know when i do, later.
the same thing had happend to me about 12 months ago but all i was told was i had miss used the car to cause it to tear the sway bar out. and did not help at all.. but to make things worse i had purchased a front swaybar from whitline and it would not fit properly and when i spoke to whitline they then told me that it was not fitted properly and i should change my mechanic.
i was not happy with them i then modified the sway bar and things are now good. i use 3mm steel to reinforce to the rear sway bar..
Where and how did you place the 3mm steel on the rear subframe? Do you have any pics to show? I'm going to be installing mine swaybar shortly but after hearing the same problem occuring time and time again I'm getting a little paranoid about the weak subframe issue.
Cheers!
much much cheaper to prevent it than to repare it:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by muhhan
basically all i done was cut out 3mm steel, 40mm wide 100mm long
shaped them to fit in position then then tacked it in position.
from the fron side i used a 90degree drill and pree drilled the holes, once that was done i welded the rest of it up. spray with some stuff thats stops it from rusting. (forgot what it was called)
very rough but ive lowerd it with tein super street and rocky has real bad roads. no sighn of any stress on the weld, i did replace the nuts and bolts for something stronger and havent had a problem since.
What you are talking about is kind of like what i suggested to Whiteline a few months after my rear frame tore through.
Next time im planning on doing similar to what you are talking about but no need to weld just measure and cut .
Ii used one on back and one on front of the mount it should give a wider pressure footprint and thus reducing the stress on the bolts alone.
Theoretically should be a fix even if a little rough that could be had for:-
Steel: $5
Paint: $3
Decent Bolts and Nyloc Nuts: $8
Satisfaction knowing that YOUR Whiteline bar isnt going to kill your subframe: PRICELESS.
Ill let you know how it goes when i finally get my new car.
lmao:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G.System
Yeah, that's the thought I had last night after reading your post and doing a bit of research on the Beaks reinforcement kit.
So after adding some thickness to the subframe by using a reinforcing plate did you cut down the spacers on the back of the whiteline mounts so that the position of the swaybar wouldn't be pushed back further by the extra thickness?
AG System, that's why I haven't installed my swaybar yet, as I need to get my mitts on some new high-tensile bolts and nuts.
just a thought, maby consider using regular bolts, so that they fail before the subframe does, instad of it the other way around.
no i didnt as i found that there was small gap B4 mounting it on and when i put the plate on the gap was reduced to 10th of a mm so i didnt worry to much about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by muhhan
the only reason i welded it was i had just bought new welder so i wanted to try it out. perfect timing you could say.
Only real problem there is the bolts that Whiteline supply (WHEN they actually supply them) are crap. Usually find that they vibrate themselves apart very easily. To counter this you would have to do them up pretty damn tight thus eating into the sub frame anyhow and causing more stress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzz
Better off spending a few extra $$ and getting some decent bolts and washers and reducing the risk. Better to be safe than sorry.
ahh i see, yeah makes alot of sence:thumbsup:
AG System, when you bolted the whiteline swaybar onto your old Civic did you also put washers on either side of the subframe? So one washer between the spacer and subframe and one washer on the other side between the nut and subframe to prevent the nut from being pulled right through the mounting holes in the subframe?
At any rate I think I'll end up going down the path of what you suggested and what big tone did with putting a solid plate over the mounting holes. I believe this setup is much like the Beaks reinforcement kit. Mind you I was reading on another forum and have seen pictures of someone subframe that had a new one torn when the subframe failed with the Beaks kit. Apparently the guy was running Autocrosses and the failure occurred after several laps, but should be OK for spirited street driving.
Yeah had the chunky washers that was in the kit that i sold you on all bolts and on both sides of any frame attachment.
Reason for doing so was to allow minimum chance of the bolt themselves cutting into the frame.
Yeah as for the kits. Pretty much any sub frame will be in the same catagory its just that the EK series is kinda thin and its always better to be safe than sorry.
When the sub frame on my civic eventually tore through it wasn't noticeable at first. just some strange creaking noise. It wasn't until later that day that i noticed that the car would creak all the time when turning left. When i got out to check i noticed the bar just hanging there and the bolts with chunks of sub frame behind the washers.
Note that the damage was done before i fitted the HD washers as the whiteline kit that i originally got had NO washers at all in it. In reality i think that i was able to prevent the frame ripping for a while but when it did go eventually it went bigtime.
Father who was an engineer said that the basic structure of the whiteline kit was a good idea but it didn't really give any structural reinforcement where it was needed. thus suggested the plate idea.
Unfortunately for me it was too little too late. but at least i can pass that information on to others so the same doesn't happen to them.
all of these reinforcement plates are well and good at distributing the force across the subframe, but they dont address the actual problem of weakness where the subframe joints the chassis.
Thats where it is always handy to have a mig welder or know someone with one.
It may take some screwing around to re-enforce the frame correctly but it is well worth it.
Few extra brackets added to the frame can do wonders.
this broad generalisation is NOT true, i suggest user error in any installation where bolts rattle free...Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G.System
my whitline bar has been installed for over 30 months,
the bolts have neither torn out anything, or rattled free...
why do you think the whiteline bolts are crap?Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G.System
what *better* bolts would you suggest?
I havent heard too much of whiteline bolts actually breaking , only the subframe under circumstances. One thing i bought up with a lead enginneer at whilteline was the complete lack of proper installation instructions ( just 2 pictures and no torque settings etc etc) this has been recently rectified from what people have said.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
but Only due to the tensile rating of the bolts. They are less than honda standard , and they are under more stress with a kit like this. So amongst others I do wonder why weaker bolts have been used.It is a cost effective measure using these normal bolts IMO.
Perhaps replacing the bolts with perhaps more tensile strength will help ?
but the bolts are same tensile rating as those used on my 2 ton engine crane?
just because the are "lower" than the Honda ones, does not mean they are not suitable...
your 2 ton engine crane dosent go thru the constant movement and torsional stress that these suspension bolts do ~ Honda designs them with limits in mind but im sure this whiteline kit Or others would be a better package with proper strength bolts.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Ive asked whiteline and the only answer they can give me is that "its good enough".
the other thing i thought of was that i am running coil-overs with stiff springs...
when using a stiffer rear sway bar with stock springs, this could increase the risk of sub-frame tear out...
That's a good point, tinkerbell, and I have heard that reasoning of having softer suspension with an extra heavy duty sway bar causing even more stress on the subframe and ultimately subframe failure. You've probably got your suspension components well balanced with each other, tinkerbell.
The other thing with the bolts is that while they may be the same as in your 2 ton engine crane, do you put your engine crane under 2 tons of force on a regular basis? The bolts on the swaybar kit, combined with unbalanced suspension components are probably pushing the mounting gear to their limits on a regular basis which leads to component failure.
Also, how does the lower tiebar help prevent subframe failure? Is it by distributing some of the forces on the mounting plates to the other side of the car so that the stress isn't all being put on one side?
good point ~ ive heard also that running stock or soft springs with larger swaybars runs the same risk of ripping subframe out ~ perhaps due to the increased pivot movement of the swaybar from softer springs.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
That is true as the stock springs do put more load on the sub frame joints where the swaybar bolts up.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Tinkerbell i notice that you are driving a DC2.. We are talking about a CIVIC and in particular the EK series. CXI's and GLI's do NOT have the structural strengthening that is required to run these bars as they do not come with ANY rear bar to start off with.
Whereas the VTI / TypeR both do. Even if they are slightly smaller in diameter.
This makes a HUGE difference.
Whiteline sell the kit as one for a civic that doesn't have a factory swaybar installed. The problem we face is that the factory car is just that FACTORY!.
If you are planning on running the car with coil overs (not factory shocks) then sure you may be able to reduce the stress on the sub frame but in a lot of cases people tend to upgrade their cars by adding the cheapest components first. aka Swaybars.
Being that these cars usually still have factory shocks and springs attached in many of the cases the bolts that are supplied by whiteline are NOT up to scratch as they are going to be under considerably more load. (If you have read the whiteline site you will notice they recommend buying an upgrade package. This is not possible for everyone.)
The bolts that i had supplied with the kit that i received (the ones that actually came) were by no means adequate for the job.
IF a car is going to be under a large amount of strain it is always best to add nyloc nuts
http://www.bolts-nuts-washers.com/images/NYLOC_NUTS.jpg
into the equation as they allow that extra protection from the bolt rattling free. something like this
http://www.bolts-nuts-washers.com/im...LON_INSERT.jpg
instead of the flange nuts they supply would be better.
All that aside there was also the fact that for some reason i also recieved 12 of the Flange nuts
http://www.bolts-nuts-washers.com/im...LANGE_NUTS.jpg
and only one of the nuts to bolt the actual bar to the LCA.
Also the lack of washers in the whiteline kit was also disturbing. i received a grand total of 3x12mm washers. Note that these washers were not shown on the original picture instructions that i received and were not the actual ones that were needed in the first place.
Now whether this was just a Quality issue at the time or some other act of God i have no idea i do know that this happened 3 times with my rear bar and twice with the front bar.
So before anyone says anything NO i do not believe that the whiteline kits are all that flash.
The Bars themselves are fine and work like they are supposed too but feel that a lot of people installing these products are backyarders and they have no idea about tensile strengths or the fact that gradual pressure on a specific point will over time weaken the structural integrity of an item. etc etc.
Also Tinkerbell you asked me also what i would recommend in terms of bolts. That is simple go to your local Universal Fasteners or some other bolt selling shop (hell even Bunnings) and ask for "Aircraft Grade Bolts". They have a higher load rating that most common bolts that you can buy, but DO cost a far bit more.
http://www.cp-components.co.uk/img/p..._bolts_set.jpg
Ok now i have that off my chest.
/end_rant
Summary: If you are going to install anything ALWAYS make sure that you are using top quality components and the part is designed to fit EXACTLY as was designed by the factory.
winner. i think ill get a cake AND eat it too.
well said A.G
damn, i was completly ignorant of any weakness in the Civic rear subframe,
1000 apologies for assuming the subframes were the same...
that said, i think it is slightly misleading to say that ALL whiteline kits are dodgy - as the Integra one is excellent.
shame on Whiteline for providing substandard kits for Civic :mad:
IMo the EK whiteline kit should reflect the EG/DC kit in designQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
NOTE EG civics share the same rear swaybar (Si and vti) as vtir and Gsi tegs ~ and also use the exact same upgrade from whiteline ( same part )
so all EG's are OK, it is just the lower spec EK's subframe that are weaker?
Its the design of the reinforcement that is the only different factor -Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Here is the DC/EG design
http://undergroundimports.com.au/gal...10010%7E10.JPG
And below is the EK design.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6030/p1010853ql4.jpg
the EK design sits very simiar to the EG/DC , but due the the lower control arm mount point , it looks as it would put a degree of more stress on the subframe during heavy cornering or pivoting action ( up a driveway etc).
IMO there needs to be something with the mount points closer together or add another mount point on the EK plate to counter act the "pivot"
can we make a petition to whiteline, so that they will improve/give better bolts? or even make a better design.
spoke to one of the lead engineers there ~ and stupidly criticized why the whiteline bolts are lower than OEM spec.....got a 1 hr ear brandishing (he was doing my alignment lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by twing
So , in numbers we can make a difference. But at what cost ?
I know someone with 'Whiteline' nick is in this forum. He doesn't accept PM ! DOH !!! i wish i could ask him to join this discussion.
I'm thinking to get 18mm upgrade.. i guess it's safer to postpone it.
i am still confused, is the low spec EK Civic subframe weak, or the Whiteline kit for the EK Civic inappropriate?
nothing against whiteline or anything, good australian company. But i was not happy at all with the instructions. The ones for the front bar was simply a sheet with 3 pictures!
And the quality of the welds on there mounts were not good at all, i had to remove the tubes to mount the bar using my asr brace
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7/IMG_1766.jpg
Mounting bracket for whiteline kit, and with tubes removed^^^^
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...7/IMG_1768.jpg
3 of the tackwelds were not actually fused with the plate! i started to grind the weld, and i noticed what looked like a slight crack between the weld and the flat plate. I got a chissel and just leavered it up, the plate metal hadnt melted with the actual weld! i then removed another 2 of the welds by hand with the chissel, the rest needed grinding though. im hoping it was only my mounts, maby the welder wasnt set at the correct temp for the job that day?
Both, but the whiteline mounting kit is not sufficient, people have ripped their subframes using it. Comptech and asr are the only kits ive seen out there that really brace the subframe ears sufficiently. Maby if whiteline used a single long plate instead of two seperate plates, it might change this.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
up to date, i dont believe anyones had issues using the comptech and asr braces on the "low spec" ek subframe:thumbsup:
Why waste your time signing a petition? You can send an even more powerful message by not buying their products.
Having said that, I'm happy with my gear which is ironically all Whiteline. I believe their products are well R&D'ed just seems that there are a few niggling problems and only on a select few vehicles. Is it Whiteline's problem or Honda's problem? In the end we are trying to put something on the car that the car wasn't designed for. To draw an analogy, you can't just go slapping a turbo on an NA engine without working it and reinforcing the other parts and expect to be just as reliable, why isn't this the same with the swaybar?
:thumbsup: exactly, if your subframe cant take the stresses of adding a bigger bar, its up to you to brace the subframe yourself. however it would be nice for whiteline to offer a kit which truly addresses this problem, or for them to actually let it be known to the buyer when buying the bar, on the instructions whatever, that it is an issue that can happen now and then and should really be addressed. instead of just selling you the kit without any mention that there mounts really dont offer the protection from the issue, or even that the issue exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by muhhan
IMO if there was an accident caused because somones subframe snapped and the car somhow lost control, it would be whitelines fault because they know about the problem, and they havnt made any attempts to warn the user of the issue, nor have they tried to eliminate it.
from my knowledge about whiteline kits for ek's, they tested it on a ek4 not ek1's but i could be wrong
Your 1/2 right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry
They have 2 kits, one for the EK1 and one for the Ek4.
The problem being that the EK1 has no standard bar and this is why the kit they supply is not up to standard.
Whereas the EK4 has mounting points and its just a matter of replacing the bar that is there.
Kinda why if you are going to add a bar to a CXI/GLI civic it is always better to put in that extra effort to make sure all your equiptment is up to standard and you have enough strengthening to counter the extra pressures.
The EK1 or anything apart from the EM1/EK4 has the mounting holes , but no welded on bolts on the rear of the subframe side.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G.System
(this is the exact same for EG civics that didnt have a rear swaybar ~ breeze / Gli etc).
From this info I and others assume the EK4 subframe is exactly the same apart from this small difference....UNLESS someone can prove us wrong ?
Maybe different thickness metal ?
Also , i would not reccommend anyone use a "replacemnt" swaybar upgraded ( IE using existing mounts / reinforcement) as Honda has designed it to last with limits in mind. Putting a 18mm swaybar where a 14mm exists DOES put more stress on the subframe and will prematurely wear the subframe or mount points. I did this exactly ~ (EG5 with 14mm stock , upgraded with a 18mm replacement. Correctly installed and torqued , and after about 4 months one side of the reinforcement broke off)
I think we can forget the issue that whiteline uses lower grade bolts ~ its the subframe and mounting that needs the most attention
Hi Everyone,
We've just been made aware of this post and asked to join-in the discussion. After spending some time carefully reading the thread, we're dissapointed that people are experiencing these problems. But, we do stand behind our products and take all criticism on board and try to learn for the future.
While we sell many swaybars both locally and around the world, and our Project EK Civic car was fitted with the current generation design swaybars for many years, was raced and driven by everyone and anyone including journalists with out problems. To date we were aware of only a few cases associated with subframe cracking, and two of those were local customers which we believe to have taken care of. We have investigated each case at the time to try to find out what the actual problem is, and on balance we did not find conclusive information to point to the design of the bars. As for mounting hardware, the current specs of the replacement control arms bolts supplied with our kits are high tensile Grade 12.9.
To be on the safe side, we have decided to temporarily withdraw these swaybars from sale while we review this issue in detail, but if anyone needs new brackets, bolts, hardware, etc… or any assistance at all, please contact us direct and we’ll be happy to oblige. That includes anyone that has purchased an 18mm Whiteline swaybar and would like some heavy duty brackets to suit.
As always, we’re happy to answer any questions.
Regards,
Wojtek.
Whiteline Automotive
Glad to see that Whiteline have taken this as a serious issue and look forward to seeing that the issue can be corrected as soon as possible.
Id personally be glad to see what Whiteline creates from this discussion and hope that, even if it means creating more expensive Sub Frame reinforcement style hardware at least it will give people piece of mind.
Look forward to seeing any results in the near future
Please keep us update with pics and any information.
We will in turn gladly support the Australian built product.
excellent to see "whiteline" taking notice.
Hopefully this leads to an overhaul of the design process and
an overall increase of product quality too :)
definatly, it was a big factor with me going to whiteline for my bars, we need more aussie companys like em:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G.System
you cant.. the eg/dc places the control arm bolt on the outside of the mount holes on ed/dc and on the inside for EK.,,, so the same design cant be utlisedQuote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G.System
the only difference in the kit is endlinks.. and maybe 4 nuts
Whiteline's response not only makes me happy with their products but also with their business ethics as well. If this is the way they respond then I will happily make my next suspension purchase a Whiteline purchase!
damn straight, mucho respecto to them:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by muhhan
curious asking the people which had the subframe problem what yr model are their civics?
il like to join the two brackets as one long solid brace like the asr or comptech, spread the load out over all the bolt holes more evenly.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...z1987/zzzz.jpg
i know it is basically the same sort of thing as asr and comptech, but its the best way to go i recon.
That way, for the subframe to crack, both ears will need to snap, taking more force to do so, the way i see it, having it as one solid mount is much better than a single mount per subframe ear.
Also, nice large backing plates to completly prevent plucking the bolts out.
G'day Everyone,
Thanks for the positive feedback. We've had a look at all the information here, and we have some good ideas, but before we go any further we need to have a look at a car to check it out properly.
This is where we ask for your help. If anyone, ideally someone after a new rear swaybar, is able to bring their EK Civic to our Minto, Sydney workshop, we would like to hear from you. In return, we'll supply and fit a new swaybar. Please email support@whiteline.com.au with your car and contact details.
Regards,
Wojtek.
Whiteline Automotive.
Out of curiousity, can this problem happen to the factory rear end, from time to time the rear feels loose and like it "slips" (liek the rear slides over a bit but the wheels are firmly planted) depending on the corner (usually at moderate speeds) :confused: Nothing looks visual, its like the wheel nuts aren't tight enough, but they are, tyre pressure is Ok also.
arrrrgggg.. wish i can take this opportunity, but I'm in melb.
come on guys, take this chance !!! preferably EK (GLi, CXi, Vti.. no Vti-R cause they have frame strengthen already) with stock suspension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteline
any news on this ?
My mate tried ordering a EG/DC swaybar , and they said they are being remade too....?????
Well for the ek, my mate has just taken my car to whiteline for them to examine (I was the lucky one to score the R&D freebie) and they said it will take 2-3 weeks for a prototype to be created. Then it will be fitted on to my car.
how do i take this whiteline peice of metal off? lol
What do you mean.. You want to remove your sway bar?:confused: thats one very unspecific question lol:pQuote:
Originally Posted by 0098
yes, is it easy to do or where can i take the car to so a pro can remove it