tare weightsQuote:
Originally Posted by sitta
dc2r is like 1040kg
ek4 is like 1100
ek9 even lighter
I have actually seen the actual weight being fairly close with cars having the std stero, speakers a/c p/s etc etc
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tare weightsQuote:
Originally Posted by sitta
dc2r is like 1040kg
ek4 is like 1100
ek9 even lighter
I have actually seen the actual weight being fairly close with cars having the std stero, speakers a/c p/s etc etc
DC2R is 1087 tare, which is fairly accurate as I've had mine weighed a few times.
In defence of FN2, I still think it will be a great drive even if the philosophy is different to past R's. The lock is 2.3 turns and sounds like the sussy is nice and tight. It's just that this R comes with creature comforts, which as everybody says, should capture a larger market.
Personally I'd love a nasty stripped out light-weight bugger, but I think that's minority thinking.
The ctr specs don't excite me. It needs another 20kw. The power to weight ratio of the ctr isn't that much better than a manual euro std. I'm not usually one to race cars based on stats, but:Quote:
Originally Posted by sitta
Euro - 140kw 223nm 1375kg
Civic - 148kw 193nm 1345kg
Fix up the final drive in the euro, get some good suspension in there and you've still got change when compared with the ctr.
Amen :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd076-chuck
re: Minority thinking - I say, don't be swayed by popular opinion. If your opinion is what you believe based on what you know, then that is your truth. Paris Hilton's pretty popular, but I still don't give two tosses whether she exists or not. Quite often catalysts for change arise from the opinions of the few.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd076-chuck
Here's something else I know - there is a shroud that goes around the rear brake disc. Presumably this is to give the illusion that it doesn't look so small. Now, I don't doubt that the brakes are capable of handling repeated hard stops (and would be even better if it didn't have to haul up all that weight!), but why does Honda think that my ego is so fragile that it has to place meaningless style influenced items on a car purported to offer a race car derived experience?!. Do they think that we'd be blinkered by engine start buttons, metal painted fuel filler caps and fake rotor enlargers not to appreciate genuine engineering genius that we know Honda are capable of?.
Where is the ingenuinity? or do manufacturers nowadays expect us to just keep lapping up four wheeled tamagotchis and furbys just by adding a bit of marketing waffle?
I also don't doubt that the FN2 is a decent enough drive in absolute terms, but relative to what we know Honda is capable of, it still doesn't capture the sort of excitement and appreciation we come to expect of a Type R product. Honda's set the bar quite high in the past, is it unreasonable of us to keep asking them to be able to keep jumping over it? or are we happy just to say that that bar is no longer valid cos everyone just wants big boot space and window dressing?
It looks to me, like a cynical attempt to leverage off the image of Honda's past Type-R successes with a half baked marketing exercise.
Fair enough, it'll probably sell, but this CTR is really going to bastardise the Type-R monicker.
would you all agree , in the same sense as the last Type R to grace our shores ? Just a half-cooked detuned model for the aussie market ?
To a degree... At least the DC5R was light and had an LSD.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Could it be heavier because street cars have to meet international safety requirements? Meaning a lot of air bags along with nifty gadgets is making the car abit more heavier then the previous type r's? Does the JDM version have all of those included? Sorry i didn't check the specs on the JDM version.
I'm sure it would be just as light he all those were removed.
i would think that all the airbags and luxury comforts is what the market demands, they do survey not only for there own customers but look at competitors and you have to match that competition...yes take out all the creature comforts and you can have the type R at 1200kg no worries
Quote:
Originally Posted by industrie
The thing is, if Honda wants to compete in a market segment that is crowded with 2.0l and larger capacity turbo motors, it needs to have a trump card. In the past, they overcame the power and torque defecits by reducing the vehicles' mass; now Honda seem to think a set of recaros and stiffer springs is the answer to their problems...
These days I can walk into Renault and by a car with 165kw, something like 300nm of torque and less mass to lug around (by the way, it has a five star euro ncap safety rating). So safety features aren't an excuse for being lardy.
I think Honda really dropped the ball with this car. It should cost 10k less and compete with the less desirable hatches- Colt, Polo etc...
haha there are some intense love and hate about this car...
well... quick question... will all this problem arised if we get the JDM instead of UKDM? If not, then we cant blame Honda... ^_^Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
The JDM version looks to be leaps and bounds better.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
FWIW I'm not blaming Honda engineers; I know Honda can give us what we want (the stuff already exists a la JDM CTR) they just choose not to...
At the end of the day, I'm sure they've got product managers employed here on mega-buck salaries. I guess they decided that there wouldn't be enough demand in Oz for the real CTR. Sad thing is that it's probably true.
Still, thats not enough to stop me having a whinge on an internet forum :p
The car is here to stay so tissue box that way =>
Thats all i can say. Negative posts which are starting to get boring especially when they are the same over and over again.
It’s just a Japanese culture to retain the better product for their own market. I am pretty sure even if they did choose to bring in the sedan Type R it would have a detuned motor, smaller brakes etc. just like the old DC5R. Learning from their previous mistakes which the DC5R copped massive criticisms, they are not going to follow the same step again. So in that sense it’s definitely a wiser move for Honda to import the hatch Type R, at least its specification is consistent with the rest of the world, and on surface nobody is given a wash-down model.
i believe the DC5R is not detuned and downgraded by Honda purposely... i think its our Oz law that enforced honda to do that...Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
aussie law?? What kinda law says that? Does the law also say ozzie dc5r should have smaller wheels and no brembos?
whoops... when u guys said "detuned" i thought its the same as "not giving the best engined tuning" (engine modification) and not including all other accessories (brakes, wheels, interior, exterior, etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
i doubt honda would sell as many if it was like the old one stripped out ect, is the focus, wrx, mazda 3, golf gti all stripped out???? NO!
pull ur heads in, honda need to be competative in this hot hatch market, people want hot hatches with luxuries, not stripped out race cars ffs.
get with the times.
Well then cranky pants, it's not really a type-r- is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
If they are going to compete with those cars, the civic will need an extra 500cc's or a turbo, or 500cc's AND a turbo... 148kw and 193nm doesn't cut it compared to the cars you mentioned.
In summary, they've created a car that is slower than it's competitors, is less driveable, rides more harshly but, is similarly equipped - yay for honda. It's like someone in product development couldn't make up their mind about how, where and with whom they wanted this car to compete.
perhaps some of these arguments would have been non-existant if they had named the car type S?
then we'd have less arguments of it not being a type R and more arguments on why they didn't bring over the jdm ctr.
There will be an online forum on Thursday JULY 5th,7:30 P:M,that will give people the opportunity to ask the experts questions about the Civic Type R.
All you need to do is to register.
http://www.hondaexperts.com.au/
thats brave
Not sure were you got your source from but alot of consumers are happy with the car. Please test drive one and make your own judgement rather then depending on other peoples comments. I have seen people converting from the EP3 to the FN2 on the UK forums saying that the car is now livable compared to the EP3.Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
test drove one today.
1 word = awesome.
It's worth buying and it felt faster than stock dc5 :D (no flaming here).
CTR gearbox is much nicer than ITR.
Not sure where I got my source for which comment exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by krazibone
I don't form my opinions based solely on the input from other forumers, and it's presumptuous -and irritating- of you to suggest otherwise.
If someone complains about a ITR/CTR not being "livable", I can't help but be baffled as to why they're buying a car that is targetted towards weekend racers and hardcore enthusiasts. On the other hand, if you're happy with a car for the masses, all power to you, however I'll never agree that a 1345kg civic is worthy of a type-r sticker.
Anyway, back on the weight thing, which stat is actually correct???
UK website lists the mass as 1267kg, Oz lists 1345kg...
:confused:
1267 sounds a good deal better, I'd consider the car if it was closer to that sort of weight...
saw the CTR today for the first time in the flesh and honestly it looks 10x better in real life then in the photos we see. Awesome car!
so ...why is there 2 TypeRs? LOL
what's the point of this UK CTR when they have another TypeR which is and is known to be so much better performance wise? (I compare the two based on performance, since both are called TypeR)...
The bean counters in Honda feel that they would make more money by selling the UK spec CTR's in Oz... And they're probably right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu
If the JDM CTR was released here, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, in fact I would have pre-ordered it, untested.
because all the uk civic are built in uk and there are not the shape that we are getting in australia. So y cant they have their own type r? the previous tye r also built in ukQuote:
Originally Posted by Tofu
lol the badge says its a type R so it is.
Id take one over the old integra type S anyday, that didnt even deserve a type S badge!
hahaha you make me laugh buddy, you are a Honda salesman and of course anything released from Honda you will say it's FANTASTIC!! especially this ctr is the first new Honda performance model in quite a while, you would do anything to put gold on it. The only time a car salesman would say anything bad about their own model is when they are trying to push the sale of another.
lol before this comment, I actually thought you had some credibility as a Honda sales person...Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
This is the quote i am talking about mate. Cars not even out in Sydney and you know all about it already? How do you know it rides harshly? How do you know its slower then most of competitors? The civic is the direct competitor of the GTI and from some UK mags i recall the Civic has out performed the GTI.
With the weight comparison UK has two versions Non-GT and GT while Australia has one, you might want to double check what version it is in the UK.
someone better warn them to wear their flame suitsQuote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
just in case anyone wanted to know the drive away price its $43920
ctr will be in the sydney dealership tommorow or wednesday in sydney latest is this weekQuote:
Originally Posted by krazibone
Are you implying that it's faster,rides better and is more truculent than a gti, 3 mps, vxr, megane 225 etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by krazibone
Aside from ride quality, these are not subjective elements, you don't need to drive the car to know it'll be slower and less driveable. One look at the mass, torque and power outputs and you can see where it's all headed, and it ain't in the civic's direction.
For the sake of discussion, the car's ride quality has been consitantly pilloried by both the australian and international press, not that I care much about ride quality.
I'd love to be proven wrong, because I'd buy the car if i was... Unfortunately, I just don't see this being the case.
ahahhha does anyone remember the mugen dc5 at the sydney autosalon...
the only thing mugen it has was a body kit and mags ahahh
:thumbsup: This is a great opportunity to get a viewpoint on some of the issues mentioned straight from the horse's mouth!.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
i drove one for ages it was nothing special, very poor seats, only 4 airbags, shocking turning circle, poor visablility. The UK CTR is a massive step forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu
this is the civic type R thread not the DC5 thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
i think if you add up the amount of enthusiasts of the old type R to the whole market segment right now its immaterial to honda australia at the end of the day, people can whinge about its performance and styling all day, but at the end of the day the car is going to sell based on the badge and this gives honda some credit that they have lacked sinced the type R badge was taken off the market here. All i can say is at least honda did something about it and bought in something that nothing!
wrong, i give my honest opinion all the time, as i said, ive driven lots of the competition i love the CTR, but at the end id prob like to own a GTI. I had a holden gen 3 for the first 2 years i worked for honda, i loved that car so much but i could give u a list of things that were poor and i didnt like.Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
I had a type S, i didnt love it, i loved my m6 euro better.
If u have anything else to say feel free to PM me:)
has anyone read the Motor Magazine where civic type r was reviewed? If I remember correctly it did 7.2 seconds. I believe this is not due to the crap driver or weather since they also tested rs4 on another edition and pretty much was able to get the claimed 4.8 secs.
the civic did 6.6 with big tail wind pushing it lol or maybe the stig drove it like mad
Top gear says civic type r is the best hot hatch. Fair enough, but it is the best on the TRACK, where you dont care about anything but fastest time. But do you own a hot hatch for sheer tracking? If yes then the typeR is the best. But if one includes other factors such as daily driving, fuel consumption, comfort, and other things outside of track, I can see why one picks up a GTI+DSG over the CTR. Turbo, easily do 6.6s 0-100, huge potential of extra power from mods, better FC than CTR, german quality. The only drawback is almost one in 10 golfs you spot is GTI, and it only goes to 7000rpm.
His opinion is as worthy as yours - that is how ozhonda works. At least he has driven the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
There is a good hot hatch review here including the Civic Type R - doesn't do so good here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1CbK94fBfe0
The person who refers to the euro makes a good point. Certainly if you are looking for a car to modify the euro is a very good base if you want a Honda. And with some Ecu tweaks there is some huge gains to be made. The suspension set up stock is quite soft - but with some modifications can be made razor sharp. And wishbone/multi link is a better setup than what is on the rear of the CTR. How easily the CTR can be modified remains to be seen.
haha I like to put the words on the open forum, but don't worry I know when to stop...Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
one important question, would there ever be a white model released? 3 colours is just too little to choose from...
i was referring to performance, of the UK CTR vs the TypeS.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
if you want to talk about seats, airbags, and turning circle...the CTR not all that great compared to $40k-$45k euro hatches
I believe the CTR actually posted the slowest lap time of all the cars tested in Top Gear's hot hatch comparison which completely discredits your ill informed assumption. Something along the lines of 'despite a shortfall in poke, there's a strong argument that it provides the most accomplished and accessible mix of involvement on the one hand and cossetting on the other' was the reason for it winningQuote:
Originally Posted by curik
Why is Accord Euro getting mentioned in this, its a family sedan not a sports orientated hatchback. Its entirely different market.
Whether the type R good value or not cannot say yet before drive, I like why you get the distinct styling and lots of standard features. But 40k for a Civic? 40k for a integra push it already, but civici I think too far a push. 40k you can buy a true sports back nearly, not these pretend sports based on hatchbacks.
Spotted the Civic TypeR in the Yarra Valley today while I was bringing some friends wine tasting. Had a chat with the driver and he said that it was loaned to him by Honda to get reviewed, so I reckoned he must be from Drive or Wheels or one of the motor magazines. He let me take a look inside and it's a beaut!
^ look nicer than I thought
um...TypeS turning circle is 11.6mQuote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
this CTR turning circle is 12.3m
how is a smaller turning circle in the TypeS shocking?
poor visability in a TypeS compared to the CTR?? um...isn't there like no visibility from the rear windscreen because of the so called integrated wing.?
u get used to the wing, i ment when u do shoulder checks, type s is terrible. After driving the CTR for a bit i got used to the rear wing and it is fine, it splits the back windscreen in half but u can still see everything behind the car.
I dont mean to flame or cause any anger. Im just voicing my opinion on the new CTR and a few others to compare it with, just like others who have NOT drivin the car who are giving their opinions and think its a shocker! i dont mind that is their opinion!
i even had a lol @ the remark about a White CTR being done...
kindest regards
12.3m? man the camry even does better than that!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: on that. I must admit that you have so much of patience on dealing with those posts. No wonder Honda hires you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
When OZ Honda doesn't bring Type R, people complains.
When OZ Honda bring Type R (DC2R DC5R), people complains cause it's detuned.
When OZ Honda bring DC5 Type S, people complains cause it's not Type R, though the previous DC5R was closed to be Type S.
When OZ Honda bring CTR, people complains that it's too comfy :confused:
too porky, too slow
Let's say if OZ Honda bring in JDM CTR, people complains cause it's 4 doors :confused:
I think it's the fact that human cannot be happy. Look at the good side guys, some countries can't even get an Type R.
Daily car and track car are contrary to each other. Normal street is never be as smooth as a race track. I remember an episode in Top Gear which takes Ferrari, Ford GT, Zonda to a test for daily driving. It cracks me up when they tried to get the car off the parking ramp.. those cars are either too wide or too low.
People with lots of $$$ can afford two cars, or severals.... that I would say good on you. But not for majority others.
I agree that UK CTR tainted with true image of Type R which is more track focussed. If the CTR is rebadged as CTS, I'm sure people will complain again :D
I would settle for this CTR as it brings more creature comfort with a hint of performance and driving experience. Some people can drive Melb - Syd with their DC2R, but not me. 4000rpm on cruising is music for others, but nuissance for me. The cruise control is a blessing for me. CTR is not the fastest on the tracks or the twisties, but speed is only one of component involved in driving experience. If people watch Initial D, they will understand that :)
Quote from TopGear Stig's article:
Despite a shortfall in poke, it provides the most accomplished and accessible mix of involvement...
Even they acknowledge that it's not the fastest.
UNLS1, could you bring it to the Melb car wash wednesday night? :wave::wave:
oh and please if ur going to quote information please make sure it is correctQuote:
Originally Posted by Tofu
CTR turning circle
Wheels : 11.12m
Body : 11.18m
Thats from Honda Australia :)
Can everyone please take a deep breath in here and relax a little. Friendly debate is most welcome but please dont take it past that.
12.3m makes the car feel like it has a more sensitive steering, but it makes the car a nightmare to park...Quote:
Originally Posted by curik
so how does this make the CTR a more liveable car?
so it isnt 12.3 rite?Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
so the weight of 1345kg from Honda Australia is also correct?
6.6sec to 100km, not bad :p
Redbook specs ftw
http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au...p?key=HOND07EE
Body Style HATCHBACK
Badge Type R
No. Doors 3
Seat Capacity 4
Series 8th Gen MY07
VIN Number SHHFN23607U ####
Drive Front Wheel Drive
Transmission 6sp Manual
Gear Location Floor
Steering Rack and Pinion
Engine Size 1998cc (2.0)
No. Cylinders 4
Engine Configuration In-line
Cam DOHC with VVT & Lift
Valves/Cylinder 4
Compression Ratio 11:1
Engine Cycle 4 Stroke
Engine Type Piston
Engine Location Front
Engine Number K20Z4 1#####1
Engine Code K2OZ4
Fuel Type Petrol - Unleaded ULP
RON Rating 95
Fuel Capacity 50L
Fuel Consumption Combined (ADR 81/01) 9.3L/100km
CO2 215g/km
Fuel Delivery Multi-Point Injected
Method of Delivery Electronic Sequential
Induction Aspirated
Power 148kW @ 7800rpm
Torque 193Nm @ 5600rpm
Acceleration 0-100Km/h 6.6 secs
Kerb Weight 1345kg
Tare Mass 1315kg
Wheel Base 2635mm
Length 4285mm
Width 1785mm
Height 1445mm
Track Front 1505mm
Track Rear 1530mm
Country of origin UNITED KINGDOM
Weight doesn't do justice, drive it and you will know how good the car is.
nope, i got honda to ring me today, its not brouchure!Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
i dont know where that figure was plucked from!
the weight is correct though.
i think people need to actually test drive the car than commenting based on other peoples reviews. or what they read on specs..if you have driven the car and pushed it and gotten a feel you might have a different opinion...at the end of the day the type R is a new car for the market and if you have 44K laying around and want a honda civic type R then go for it. Those who complain about performance just go buy a s2000, 350Z, WRX, EVO, S15 or something with a V8 engine in it and you can have as much power as possible...just remember speed limits
probably from some internet review that made it up or actually tested itQuote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
The NEW CTR is looks KOOL!!
You sure it's not 11.2 and 11.8? There is usually a difference of at least .5 metre between wheel and body figures and body is usually the quoted figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
11.2 and 11.8 is what this site lists
http://www.worldcarfans.com/print.cf...9.006/lang/eng
yes thats it, take out the .1 i had listedQuote:
Originally Posted by mpd076-chuck
soz
i got the info about the turning circle from carsales.com.au
going for a drive this saturday, will either confirm my doubts or prove me wrong...
Just another interesting fact...
Honda Singapore actually quote the 0-100 time as 7.0 seconds which definately seems more realistic...
singapore is too hot, it affects the performance...
lol.......
Carpoint review. http://carpoint.com.au/car-review/2709412.aspx
I didn't know that it came with heated power side mirrors, a chilled glovebox, rain-sensing wipers and auto-lights. Very nice. Well equipped for the potential buyer in the 30's that has the cash for performance but wants the convenience too.
I believe that Singapore won't be getting the same TypeR as the one that we get here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wazza
Check out the link http://www.honda.com.sg/type_R.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by E-Gene
Use the 'Quick Links' panel on the left to view exterior, interior, colours etc
As far as I can tell, it is the same car...
lol i have just sold a civic sport to my mrs, its on the ship now
and he younger bro cam in yesterday and bought a black CTR!
that driveway will look cool! haha
oh and the mum has a V6 accord
looks like my demo will be on the road!
picking mine in a couple of hours hahah its christmas time