Is he talking about an Evolution?
Printable View
Is he talking about an Evolution?
.dont make me Rick_Roll you guys again! :p
Im seriously asking the question: Does anyone here really have a proper definative clue what is happening with this Hondata situation? Or is all this talk 100% speculation based on its current vapourware status?
And if so can anyone comment on a real release date?
That's the problem nobody knows.:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
i want to purchase this whole product
i so think all this is a prank on us hahahaha
a prank that went on for 2 years? that would be fcuking harsh. =) id like to buy this product too no doubt on the spot. i just need a intake and header :( and then ka-bam! 160kw atw!
Hey guys, just got off the phone to James from HondaTech,
Release date for their extreme package is only a week or two away. Includes intake, headers, exhaust and reflash, makes 158kw ath... group buy is only $3999 so im thinking thats where im going...
Update, and that power is basically constant from 5000rpm all the way to 7200... and there will be an ultimate cam upgrade available after that which will be looking at pushing an extra 15kw out!
Theyre releasing it for MT 2003-2005 euros first, then in the AT, and then MT 2006-2007
****, that's decent aye
158 Kws @ the hub since it's tuned on a hub dyno..... :D
Will be interesting to see what it makes at the wheels... :D
oh, so not atw
lol
boooooo.
lol.
check whether that price includes installation.. and I like how we are now waiting for a release date of the release date!
lol oops sorry i was just so excited, i meant it gets released in a week or two...
so what about the 06- 07 autos :(
they miss out... :p
lol nah i think theyre going to do it for them aswell, might be abit more of a wait though :(
T_T no way.. so about say 2 - 3 weeks for its release date for the 03 - 05 and a little wait for the autos and so on ? = ="
haha we've heard this one b4 :P
That's because the 03-05 guys have been waiting for over 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by r-r-redEuro
i want this package
Hmm dunno lets see. $4000 a a lot of money to drop sight unseen with no actual user comments/community feedback. Think i ll wait till you guys get it. The see what the real world response is....
Peekay had it on his car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
what about a discount for all the people who have been patiently wating and dont want the full package ?? - We will probably get stiffed (even more than we have been already...) Lets wait and see.
fair enough i guess thats true but do you reckon that the wait for people like me would be as long ? or is it just still a puzzle to everyone as well =/Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
As aaronng said, its been in design and testing for over two years now, as soon as they release it theyll be pictures, dyno results, both before and after, videos, etc on the jtune website.
As for the not wanting the entire system, you can get just a standard reflash (which will give approx 10kw gain throughout the rev range) for $990. Headers will be around the $1350 mark, but can only be used with the jtune exhaust because of its custom length (exhaust around $1800). It uses a 3" system, with dual tips and 4 mufflers. The extreme reflash is only available with the complete package, as its tuned for the jtune intake and exhaust manifold.
After the group buy period the complete price will go up to around $4600, so you are getting a discount for waiting so long.
wtf 4 mufflers.......
The euro was designed as a business man kinda stylish car, not a boy racer like wrx or s15... the exhaust was designed with this in mind, its meant to be pretty quiet below 3000rpm, and theres meant to be no drone while cruising... ill wait till i hear the videos before making my mind up thouQuote:
Originally Posted by 350G
Thats what im saying. Im not jumping in sight unseen not matter what the "percieved" discount is. You get a discount for jumping in blind after a 2+ year wait? Not my idea of a sales pitch...
As for saying its aready been released and used for 2 years thats a load of BS as they are under NDA's obviously and cant give real comments and definative answers about long term usage. So for all intensive purposes its unreleased and untested.
Im probably going to get it I just dont have blind faith to guide me.
Im thinking of just going TODA headers and standard ecu reflash... only costs $2500 and should give me an extra 20kw atw...
It doesn't have 4 mufflers. It has 2 mufflers and 2 hotdog resonators. That's still louder than stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by 350G
so 158kw isn't at the wheel? is that what u mean??Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroAccord13
i m only interested in the reflash itself
nah not at the wheels, at the hubs, they take the wheels off and attach the dyno to the hubs.
I thought 158kw was ATW not at the hubs.Thought it was too good to be true.Does anyone know how much approx.kw ATW?Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterSonic12
That's $125 per kW. The Jtune package comes out to about $83 per kW.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
I wonder how long us 06-07 owners are going to have to wait?:(
My thoughts exactly. That's my plan too.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
lol but i already have 130.9kw atw... using custom exhaust and k&n CAI... so $2500 to get me to 150kw or $4000 to get me to 158kw...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
as far as im aware at the hubs and at the wheels is basically the exact same thing, at the hubs is just alot more accurate... so the kit should see you at about 158kw atw
I read somewhere that hub dynos give higher readings than roller dynos. Guess we'll see when it's released.
from what i know yes. The hub gives higher reader :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
You can't compare readings from different brands of dynos, let alone different types of dynos. A better way is to see what was Jtune's dyno of a stock Euro and compare the difference with the 158kW reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
A hub dyno usually reads about 5% higher than a dyno dynamics rolling road dyno.
If that price is right it could be around $5000 installed. Good luck to them if they can get people paying that sort of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
You are right about different dynos - these hub dynos can be up to 10% higher than at the wheels (my understanding).Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Either way it doesnt really matter - the on road behaviour is what counts and if Peekay pulled a low 14s 1/4 that shows the performance right there.
Dyna pack or hub dyno reads about 10% higher than typical dyno jet. Hub dyno close to flywheel HP. 1/4 mile can shows it or use the same dyno on the same day.
Definately not - I have asked James that question 6 months ago and he said up to 10% difference at the wheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
But really peak numbers are bulltish. It is insignificant. What you really need to look at is the before and after graph. Look at the percentage differences at points on the curve. That is where this package proves itself - not in peak numbers.
Can someone explain to me why there is so much excitment over a 'reflash'? Essentially all you are doing is applying a 'generic' (if somewhat modified map) to a modified, individual car. As far as I can tell you would be much better having an individual tune done that relates directly to the specific car than having a standardised branded product.
Because this is the only economical way to have a custom tune without relying on an interceptor. The Kpro does not yet work with the Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdster
IMHO, I wouldnt be jumping on board on any 'reflash' and would much prefer to wait until an economical option comes on the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
It's been 4 years already. Hondata still hasn't released a Kpro that supports an electronic throttle. At least you also get I/H/E and a high-flow cat for your $4000. Most people aren't ready to spend $4000 just for a Motec with the electronic throttle add-on and tuning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdster
if you look at it like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Cold Air Intake $400
Headers $1500
3" Exhaust $1600
High Flow Cat $200
Total $3700...
So yes, i think $4000 for all that and reflash is good price :D
Keep in mind this does not have the branding of a large manufacturer - yet those individual parts are at or above the price of top JDM/US brand products like Injen, Toda, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Now one might reasonably ask why they took this approach (ie Jtune equipment must be used rather than selecting the best of what was already in the market)? Is it because they have outsmarted all the JDM aftermarket manufacturers of intake, header, exhausts? Or is it because this is a good business idea to package the reflash with mandatory Jtune parts? Think about it.
I am not saying the quality is not going to be good, it will be, but you can`t say the pricing of the parts is cheap.
i based prices on K&N CAI, TODA headers, Greddy Exhaust, and Skunk cat...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Power at the hub and wheels are different, something that many people don't take note of...
Hey, just readin this Thread,
i Had the Jtune Header's & Exhaust on my 06 Euro for about 3 - 4 days
and i gotta say, its much louder than standard, but its not blasting, sounds quite good actually, and i was using the R&D system, the finished product will be more refined, also the look of the pipes is really good, they have just improved on the standard design. from what i understand its not the power gains that's important here, its the way the tune will release the power through the rev range, but we'll just have to wait and see when its released.
Brand does not make the part good though. Look at DC Sport and Comptech. The DC Sport is a cheap mild steel header miserably coated to prevent rusting with a dodgy flex pipe, while the more expensive Comptech header doesn't have extra gains over the DC Sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Injen on the other hand took the shortcut approach with their CAI and used the dimensions of their RSX-S CAI to manufacture the RD CAI for the TSX. The IAT port was on the wrong side and the diameter was not tuned and caused a loss of low RPM torque. The newer SP CAI fixed these problems.
At least Toda has better quality parts with proven gains, but you'd expect them to because you are paying a premium over other brands and that they are a racing parts manufacturer unlike DC Sports, Comptech and Injen, which sell sports parts instead. JDM is not the best as well, as there are parts that are substandard, like Cusco's rollcages. :)
With regards to their decision to sell the full blown reflash only with their own designed I/H/E and cat is good tuning sense. Using the same reflash with off the shelf aftermarket parts is asking for trouble because the reflash is "generic". Proper tuning is different for each individual car, even if they have the same parts. Since the only choice for us is a reflash, I wouldn't want to use an aggressive tune with parts that have not been tested together with.
Of course there is lots of variance in quality in the market but some of the examples you are using are bottom end cheap. DC Sports is like $295US, and even the Comptech is around $500US. Compare that to Jtune at over $1200AUD for headers. I would expect top notch quailty at those sorts of prices.
If they wanted an agressive tune they could have picked the best parts already in the market and tested them all they please. That might have shaved a good 12 months of the waiting time. Then for people not using those parts sell a generic flash - like they are doing anyway.
So Aaron, are you saying that just doing the "reflash" using aftermarket parts will not show any gains?
from speaking to james, not all the power gains are in the retune, the intake is the only CAI on the market that has the pod facing forward, so the air is actually forced into the engine. also, the headers need their jtune exhaust because of the extra length. the 4 pipes which come straight off the manifold dont join together until well after the stock position. as aaronng said, the aggresive retune is only available with their full package, because thats what it is tuned to. on any other exhaust or intake the lack of air coming in or an increase in pack pressure might be dangerous to the engine. i dont by things for the name brand, i buy them for the quality, and in my opinion, something that has been in the making for 2 years solely dedicated to the Euro is a winner in my book, not just alot of high end items bolted together and slapped on.
but as i said earlier, because i already have the K&N intake and custom exhaust, im thinking i might just get TODA headers and reflash...
just to make it clear, Jtune will be doing two different reflash's for the Euro, the standard (which will give approx 10kw gain) and the extreme. the extreme is only available with the full intake/exhaust system. i think aaronng was saying that you cant get the extreme reflash with other after market products, which is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Gene
That combination will still be nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Ahh, I see - so a base flash and a flash with all Jtune bolt ons. At one point on their web site they said there would be a one-up flash from the base - for a modified car with aftermarket intake, header, etc. Is that not happening now?Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
You didn't add the shipping cost of the USA headers as well. Since they have delayed the release many times because of rejecting the header samples that they received, I sure do hope that their headers are top notch. From the early pictures of the headers, it looks like racing headers (like the Toda), so the gains should already be better than the off the shelf brands like Comptech. There is nothing wrong with custom designing your own headers. Just because there are branded headers out there, doesn't mean that they are the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
The thing is, the sum of all the best parts doesn't usually equate to the best result, at least with regards to car tuning. Instead of going for the best parts in the market, the better way would be to go for parts that complement each other. That is not easy to do unless you design your own parts to work with each other. :)
As EUR003act said, there are 2 levels of reflash. The first is a "mild" tune, while the second is an aggressive all-out tune. The mild tune with the best parts won't make as much power as the aggressive tune with its package of parts. If you could get your hands on the aggressive tune, using it with aftermarket parts will probably risk damage to the engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Gene
Drop another fifteen hundred onto that; send your motor overseas; resleeve and boost... 400kw all day longQuote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Sounds like a whole lot of cash for a such a small gain
That is fair enough, good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
You can boost a K24 including a tunable ECU that retains DBW, factory cruise, etc for $6100? Sounds too cheap and I think lots of people would have gone down this path if it was that sort of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
If the quality is there $4000 for everything installed would be good. Wait and see.
I've seen the Jtune Header's Up Close, and they look amazing,
and with the Headers & Echaust bolted onto my car (minus Tune & CAI) it made a nice gain, and the drive was also improved, so i can't wait to see whats its like with the CAI & Tune as well.
Yup, we just need that damn electronic throttle-Kpro! Come on Hondata, release it already!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
I agree - I'm not swapping my current bolt ons for anything and an affordable tuneable ecu would be great
Yeah. Im also tempted to pick my bolt ons and get the Haltech interceptor which is now euro compatible according to their website.
There are quite a few interceptors in the market that support the Euro. But then again, the reason why we want the reflash/aftermarket ECU is to avoid the use of interceptors since the stock ECU will slightly alter fuel trim, and thus slightly alter your tuning. It's fine for a street tune, but when you are extracting every last kW out of your engine using 98RON, fuel trim changes can result in pinging if the stock ECU deems that the engine is running too rich (which at high RPM, highcam and advanced valve timing is usually the case).Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
I think it's $4000 supply only,can anyone confirm this?Cause if it's $4000 installed i'm definitely in.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
From memory James said its another $500 for full install of the extreme package, that includes dyno before and after.
someone asked whether theyll do an aggresive tune for other aftermarket parts, in regards to this i dont think theyre planning on doing a third generic flash (for aftermarket parts). but im sure they could do a custom tune to suit your setup...
and people wanting to go turbo, anyone can slap on a turbo, increase the boost and get big power, but wheres the fun in that? id much rather a powerful and custom N/A car that people go "shit what have you got under you bonnet!" when you smash past their evo8 :p
**on WSID ofcoure**
Time to wake up from your dream :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
my mate spent 5k turbo'n his celica, and he only pulls 120 at the wheels... his mate owns a supra that pulled 406kw, he spent $27k... i think ill stick to my $4kQuote:
Originally Posted by Drew
Well, if the Evo8 is stationary...Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
lol evo8 = 210 at the fly/180 at the wheelsQuote:
Originally Posted by yfin
K24 with jtune extreme, toda F spec cams and springs, RC 650 injectors, quad throttle body, borred out to 2.6l, with high 13.5:1 compression, maybe even stroker kit, easy putting down 200kw at the wheels
You dont need to convince me of the potential of the K24. I just think it is a little premature to be talking about beating EVO8sQuote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
but it helps me sleep at night :pQuote:
Originally Posted by yfin
With all that power, wouldnt there be alot of wheel spin at take off just like the big v8's? Or does that only occur with rwd lol
but anyways, evo's and rexxies alike have good traction and can put power down easily on all fours. IMO just keep the mods nice and simple on the euro...
lol youd probably have traction by the time you reach 1/4 mile :pQuote:
Originally Posted by snYpz
hahahaah....yeh true that :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
the euro will be like a v8 holden in a lil honda shell lol
Everbody and their auntie's EVO8 aren't running stock boost. :) Without spending 4k, they can put more than 200kW at the wheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
BTW, with injectors, quad throttle, boring/stroking and higher compression, you need a standalone ECU. You can't use interceptors nor the JTune reflash.
well modify is not just about getting the dyno numbers though. That might be just like dyno queen, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Modify is about passion, mate. A lot of people don't care about the numbers. They just enjoy modify their car. 210 kw at the crank evo8 might just get 140 kw atw on roller dyno.
I have seen numbers of DC5 got better 1/4 mile time than stock evo which still running N/A bolt on + tuning. For sure a lot of Euros' owner will do the same if only reliable ecu tuning options is available at the market.
lol but i already have 130.9kw atw... using custom exhaust and k&n CAI... so $2500 to get me to 150kw or $4000 to get me to 158kw...
as far as im aware at the hubs and at the wheels is basically the exact same thing, at the hubs is just alot more accurate... so the kit should see you at about 158kw atw
you have 130.9kws? what mph do you trap at?
you the number with the euro1? did anyone on OH actually tried this?? is it the euro1 tuning making 150kw u saying?Quote:
Originally Posted by pornstar