K series NA or B series Turbo???

Hi,
Im getting onto my full licence soon so i have a motor budget of about 10-15g just on motor & breaks and everything else inc suspension and interior separate,
So i ant decide between K series NA and B series Turbo i want to hear everyones opinions if you have own one or both! Which is better, the base motor for B series would be B18c, i know NA K series is reliable but can Turbo be reliable too???
Which would quicker on street/drag??
For $15800 i was quoted for B18c everything inc ecu, motor and exhaust i would make safely 280kws and for K swap around 15g.
I know that both are fast but i just am after opinions and ideas :)

kw@wheels is not the only things to be considered down the 1/4 mile.

If u want to go faster down the straight i would recommend buying a skyline and doing that up with the remaining money.

i'm a vtec man only honda's for me and i dont think on my budget i could build a skyline faster then a eg with k20 or b series turbo and i wanna beat people in a car they dont think is going to be fast every body thinks skylines are fast

N/A K-series.

If you wanna boost later on down the line, boost the K.

That would be FTW.

You wouldnt need to boost it anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul1985

N/A K-series.

If you wanna boost later on down the line, boost the K.

That would be FTW.

You wouldnt need to boost it anyway.

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lol if he boosted a k series the eg would just be shredding his tyres

Thats true. lol.

personally i think b18c7 turbo....

u will probably have traction problems but thats my opinion... coz u can always upgrade the turbo or high flow it etc... lots more mods to a turbo enine than to a N/A

good luck.. watever u do put ur car in the build section

thanks for the help its hard to choose, both fun and both quick

Obviously a K20 is a dam good platform full stop N/A, however with a Forced Induction application you will be able to increase your power output with much less money then a Naturally aspirated application and you car wont remain a pig to drive (lumpy cams etc).

I vote

Boosted B18Cr > K20 N/a

Of course there are pros and cons with both paths.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sexc86

Obviously a K20 is a dam good platform full stop N/A, however with a Forced Induction application you will be able to increase your power output with much less money then a Naturally aspirated application and you car wont remain a pig to drive (lumpy cams etc).

I vote

Boosted B18Cr > K20 N/a

Of course there are pros and cons with both paths.

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Tried B18CR + boost couple years ago on our EG hatch
t28 turbo + 7 psi boost
150kw@wheels.

I still prefer Allmotor K20 or K24A swap on EG hatch

Boost will net you more power and less expensive but i have to agree with N/A K20/24 becuase of traction and driveability

with the experience i have had with boost and my mates b20 both with similar setup power,weight,tires, suspension

boost has alot more top end by the time you have reached 100 clicks you still have another 120 clicks to go with ease ( boost )

n/a i would more likely use in the track department, mainly it does get rid of lag

in my opinion i.d boost a b/series, alot cheaper. Or even better boost the k i know it can happen with the budget you have

I would boost the B series.

get a CBR1000 with minior mod, will get 10s and around 300kmh for the same amount of money.. :)

Put the K series in it and set it up for track racing ...

you won't look back

track racing: N/A K SERIES
drag racing: Boosted B18CR or Boosted K20/24 :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

but what about on a day to day basis will be used everyday .
with turbo motor wouldnt last as long as k series and for the same budget what would be the 1/4 mile time difference if both had same setup up full trim and semi's i no k's can run mid to high 12's ive seen i lot of eg with turbo b's only run low to mid 13's i no depends on setup but for my budget it's not going to be fully built and on the street eg with a k is still gunna beat a lot of things of the line

i drive my dc2r, b18c7 + boost daily...............standard engine on 7.5psi makes a health and very very reliable 239kw at the wheels.......................and has so far ran a 12.88 at 113mph in street trim

Go Jay!!

that doesn't sound right, we see k20 making 150 something kw and do similar times on street trim...

also see way too many turbo vtec blow up and having nagging issues...the percentage compared to NA is just astounding...and most of these I saw only street drive, never see drag/circuit...

so if u want reliable and usable power stick to na k20..

I got b16a2 in my eg fully built to run 25psi...i've only taken it to 7psi so far and rebuilding it atm (new rings and bearings) but i will only ever take it to 20psi as its not that safe to go past that. This is my third rebuild in 3 or so years since ive gone turbo and trust me i would be more than happy to run a K Series in my EG over my Boosted b16a2 anyday. With boost there is soo many different driving setups, sized turbo's with earlier spool less power and later spool more power etc. Its hard to get the right power curve you like. With a k series, its just all motor. Power will always be similar from the getgo to redline and it will always be there when you wanna play with it. With boost its much different.

There is much more potential power in a boosted b series but if you did quite a few NA modds to a K24 in an eg your bound to hit mid 12's. and to me all motor 12's sounds much better than a boosted b series.

K24 will last 200,000kms+
Boosted B can last from 5,000 - 100,000kms depending on your build setup, your turbo setup, your tune, your fuel. So many variables.

i think k20/k24 for now then you can always boost the K later

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YBOOST

i think k20/k24 for now then you can always boost the K later

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I second that.

the engine will not last if u give it a thrashing with overly high amounts of boost for the street... run a streetable amount of boost with a streetable tune, install a boost controller with a low and a high boost setting and when it comes time for track day switch over to high boost and have some fun... if ur looking for blisteringly quick times dont go for a street car also... very very fast times is not very streetable... i believe with the right srtup ull get quick times with a very reliable and streetable car

High boost can be as simple as a button on the steering wheel.

^ lulz
ofcourse

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chunky

^ lulz
ofcourse

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Well,I only found out when I watch a high octane dvd the other night :D

You know the one where they spend $16K on that honda,with high and low boost and it kicks ass! at the 1/4!!

Here it is!!

Kamikaze!!!

... how much of a drag car is this thing going to be, i know yonas is forever changing brakes for the runs and then putting it back to stock for his car and thats just to save a little weight. imo k series neways, especially if u do a high comp k24 with k20 head :) and u will be able to do continuous runs all nite, too much hastles with turbo etc especially if your using it on the street as well...but its more what you prefer driving and can drive well so do some research and u will get ur answer......then go to jdm yard and get all the krudd stuff :P

For a budget of 15k, i would do a Bseries turbo for the time being. If you can get the K-series for cheap then i would chose the K package only for that reason. Other than that, B-series is so much cheaper to build. Or do a B20vtec like us and run 12's

you got $15k just to do mods only or incl buying the car?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benson

For a budget of 15k, i would do a Bseries turbo for the time being. If you can get the K-series for cheap then i would chose the K package only for that reason. Other than that, B-series is so much cheaper to build. Or do a B20vtec like us and run 12's

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B20 or H2B sound like good options to consider...

ive got a boosted b18c and i love it :D

15k is only for mods already have the car and it will be on the street 90% of the time drags only every now and again and not track work so i want something quick on the street
the 15k is only for the engine swap the car is efi and the only other thing i might need oot of this money is coilovers but still couple of months to off greens so i could save extra for them and thanks for all the help so far

Boosted b18cr stroked to 2l

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Originally Posted by jayeg

15k is only for mods already have the car and it will be on the street 90% of the time drags only every now and again and not track work so i want something quick on the street
the 15k is only for the engine swap the car is efi and the only other thing i might need oot of this money is coilovers but still couple of months to off greens so i could save extra for them and thanks for all the help so far

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So basically steet 99.5% of the time and 0.5% drag.

10% would mean that you would be dragging your car every tenth drive...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FastFwd

So basically steet 99.5% of the time and 0.5% drag.

10% would mean that you would be dragging your car every tenth drive...

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thats a lot of track time for a "street" car lmao!:p

haha you no what i meant a wicked Wednesday every month or every couple of weeks i will be new to drag racing i want to get into the 12's so i will need a few runs before i get the times am after

With whats been said I'm firming up my opinion to a K20 swap.

I don't think the OP has the restraint/cash to run a boosted B series daily, at least with the K20 swap it should be almost utter reliability no matter what you do with the engine provided that you service it regularly.

The K20 should also be a better engine to drive around regularly as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jayeg

15k is only for mods already have the car and it will be on the street 90% of the time drags only every now and again and not track work so i want something quick on the street
the 15k is only for the engine swap the car is efi and the only other thing i might need oot of this money is coilovers but still couple of months to off greens so i could save extra for them and thanks for all the help so far

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K SWAP it!:thumbsup:
Get 400km's or so per full tank of fuel too LOL
Stock K24A3 into EG can run 11.82sec
I did it already

Talking about reliability...how reliable would say a b18c be if you rebuilt it with a full gasket kit,replaced valve seals and anything else that needs doing while it was opened up?

The reason I ask is,it was mentioned on here that b-series are getting on in age now and that it's worth looking at K-series now for the reliability factor.

Is there any truth to this or not?

Would 16-18k sounds right for a k swap into an EK?

GTRVspec95 your are right i dont think i would have the cash to run a built b as a daily it's gunna send me broke just to do this but i wanna have a least one nice car,
and it's alot of money but i really like eg with kswaps might not be the fastest car out there but for me iv'e currently got a d15b motor and i have owned a b16a but k series is on a another level again thanks for all the help

yeah k has very good fuel economy, my k20a gave more than 300km from 21L city driving...crazy efficiency...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jayeg

GTRVspec95 your are right i dont think i would have the cash to run a built b as a daily it's gunna send me broke just to do this but i wanna have a least one nice car,
and it's alot of money but i really like eg with kswaps might not be the fastest car out there but for me iv'e currently got a d15b motor and i have owned a b16a but k series is on a another level again thanks for all the help

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Consider yourself lucky though as some of us could only afford B18C transplants :p

You're probably going to be surprised at how quick a K swap transplant is anyways ... and there is always Hondata later on :cool:

i not lucky i make 550 a week im pouring everyhing into this i cant afford it but i really want one i havnt gone out to a club or pub for 2 years and i only buy what i have to to live thats how much i want it. i defently cant afford it but its just something i want and have been looking forward to ever since i seen my first kswapped car

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jayeg

i not lucky i make 550 a week im pouring everyhing into this i cant afford it but i really want one i havnt gone out to a club or pub for 2 years and i only buy what i have to to live thats how much i want it. i defently cant afford it but its just something i want and have been looking forward to ever since i seen my first kswapped car

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I like the sound of that brother A++

I've been considering the same thing, I get my fulls in about 10 months or so and have almost finished paying off my loan.. (random shit I did when I was a bit younger lol)

Anyways, I'd go kseries man ~ def.

If your going to boost, just save another 15k and buy an evo 9..

kseries in eg = fun.

I'm kind of tossing up between these two options myself.

It's hard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jayeg

i not lucky i make 550 a week im pouring everyhing into this i cant afford it but i really want one i havnt gone out to a club or pub for 2 years and i only buy what i have to to live thats how much i want it. i defently cant afford it but its just something i want and have been looking forward to ever since i seen my first kswapped car

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U nailed that man!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I think 'a few' of us on here fit into that catagory!! :cool:

Supercharged K24 :eek: :p

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Originally Posted by Phased

Supercharged K24 :eek: :p

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It appears the budget just went from 15,000 to about 30,000..

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Originally Posted by aramiK

It appears the budget just went from 15,000 to about 30,000..

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Ok, we will come to a compromise...

Supercharged H22! XD :p

nah i would go k24a na with mods. Reliable quick and alot of torque to play with but yeh if its only a h22a or b18 you want then go h22a turbo or super charged.

I've always wondered this, what's gonna happen when you chuck a engine in that's worth more than the car and you have an accident?

Do insurance companies cover the cost of the engine? I'd hate to see 15K go down the drain.

I'm pretty sure if you pay more to insure it,you can but it can be pricy but insurance is that,insurance.

Do any insurance companies insure a daily car on the track?

Well if you have a K24A in your car without engineers cert and telling your insurance company then im sure it wont be insured as its not legal.

Also, you could have an agreed value on your car. Insurance price will be through the roof but you could keep it insured...

Another thing to think of... In an accident, how often do you damage the engine??
If you insured the cost of the shell you could get another one and throw the running gear in.

Regarding insurance on the track. I dont think your normal insurance would cover that. I'm not sure if you can get insurance on the track???... You are in control and at risk and you have put yourself in that risky situation. I think if your too worried about damaging your car then maybe a track isnt for you. Theres always the chance of an accident.

Thanks Paul,I'm not worried at all about damaging my car on the track,I let go of that.Live on the edge! Tracking my car is my dream.

That's agreat point about insurance,in the event of an accident and damaging the engine,we can fix em' up as cheap as possible anyways,unless it's major...you could always swap in a cheap as d-series if ya broke :)

Fixing the body can get expensive real quick.

...Why dont u build a monster k series then with ongoing working money u can eventually put it in? k24 is nice but then its no high comp and not a real vtec, if u go the k20 then u have the proper vtec head high comp engine etc and eventually u can build a high comp k24 with k20 head and buy some QTB's and ecu and be a monster streeter using less fuel than a turbo and prob more reliable, i think u can use all oem parts apart from some h beams :thumbsup:

supercharged EP3 K20 LOL... no traction anyone?

ITB's are loud in Vtec,I personnally wouldn't sport em' on the street,but there's lots of police where I live.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beeza

Thanks Paul,I'm not worried at all about damaging my car on the track,I let go of that.Live on the edge! Tracking my car is my dream.

That's agreat point about insurance,in the event of an accident and damaging the engine,we can fix em' up as cheap as possible anyways,unless it's major...you could always swap in a cheap as d-series if ya broke :)

Fixing the body can get expensive real quick.

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I meant the engione would be easy enough to pull out of a written off/damaged chassis and thrown back into another. Still alot of money possibly lost as EG shells go from between 3 - 8k approx depending what model etc...

Throwing a D back in would be a hassle mainly because you remove the old engine mounting bracket for the K-series. You could try and keep this bracket in form when removing it and then weld it back in place if you ever throw a D in but that would be quiet a hassle....

Yes,that's a good option too!!

yeah dont no what k i want, k24 faster 1/4 but i love my revs and the sound of a k20a cant be beaten not to fussed on the extra torque just really want to be into the mid to high 12's on street tyres and semi striped interior.
but alot of people keep telling me if i buy k20 after couple months i will want k24 so cheaper to do in the first place but i really like k20a tough choice i havent got the money to change my mind after its done

just get the k24...im sure theres some head mods that can be done in the future to make it able to rev the crap out of.

Btw sorry to get off topic but can you swap heads in the k series like in the b series? like putting a k20a head on a k24? or is it all different?

i believe its the same

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FastFwd

Btw sorry to get off topic but can you swap heads in the k series like in the b series? like putting a k20a head on a k24? or is it all different?

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Fairly certain you can do this. I've seen a few people make reference to kswap frankensteins

yes you can

hmm.... i'll put my 2 cents here.

a couple of months ago i was handed the keys to a 190kw@wheel civic with k24... was pretty much built off its nuts... i took it for a wrap and yes there was slight traction loss through 3rd gear but it was somehow missing the "fun" factor, things werent zooming past me and all i can hear is a high pitched vtec screaming.

now thinking back to when i had my dc2r turbo... mmmm.... nothing like the sound of vtec hitting at 4700rpm then the wastegate cracking open at 5000rpm... damn then seeing 8500rpm limiter, that was a "fun" car to drive. didnt have a built motor, just standard internals which pumped out 268kw@wheels@16psi on drag tune (5th gear wheel spin) managed a 12.2@125mph, thats with a bogged launch. i use to drive it everyday with a street tune of 222kw@wheels on 11psi and never missed a beat. my ex gf used to drive it alot too but never hit boost. even once had a lamborghini gallardo pull up next to me on the cumberland hwy... poor guy.... put him to shame at the end of 4th gear by half a car length.

so yea, thats my 2 cents.... i think i want another boosted honda.... :zip:

here's some pics to jog the memory abit...

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6843/picture003pmp.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1675/dc2r007n.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/23/dc2r019.jpg

can you pm the work done on that and costs? i'm interested in building a teg that will eat my mates supra for breakfast

you'll spend about 10 - 15k on turbo charging a b motor... just depends on if u use branded parts or cut corners and use parts that just make it work for the sake of it. alot of money is in the bling side which isnt recommended, such as polishing.

rough price:

2000 - turbo
1000 - intercooler (yes there is a difference with a $250 chinese one and a quality one like plazmaman)
700 - wastegate
450 - bov
700 - ignition
300 - fuel pump
200 - fuel rail
800 - injectors
500 - throttle body
1500 - clutch
800 - custom exhaust manifold
500 - custom intercooler pipes
1000 - 3inch exhaust
2000 - labour?
600 - tune
1000 - ecu
1000 - misc

and thats pretty much goodbye 15k without hpc coating, polishing, braided lines. but that will get u pretty much where u want without the bling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AH_HUH

you'll spend about 10 - 15k on turbo charging a b motor... just depends on if u use branded parts or cut corners and use parts that just make it work for the sake of it. alot of money is in the bling side which isnt recommended, such as polishing.

rough price:

2000 - turbo
1000 - intercooler (yes there is a difference with a $250 chinese one and a quality one like plazmaman)
700 - wastegate
450 - bov
700 - ignition
300 - fuel pump
200 - fuel rail
800 - injectors
500 - throttle body
1500 - clutch
800 - custom exhaust manifold
500 - custom intercooler pipes
1000 - 3inch exhaust
2000 - labour?
600 - tune
1000 - ecu
1000 - misc

and thats pretty much goodbye 15k without hpc coating, polishing, braided lines. but that will get u pretty much where u want without the bling.

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wow
what sizeturbo is that? it's become apparent to me that this won't be happening anytime soon. gives me time to save till i get my fulls though

thanks dude:thumbsup:

i used a garrett gt3040 with a hks rear housing supplied from gcg turbos. for 1.8 to 2.0 litres the gt30 range is the best for max power out of an unopened motor imo.

do you still have this car? would love to see it in person. maybe go for a ride? haha. sounds like a beast

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AH_HUH

hmm.... i'll put my 2 cents here.

a couple of months ago i was handed the keys to a 190kw@wheel civic with k24... was pretty much built off its nuts... i took it for a wrap and yes there was slight traction loss through 3rd gear but it was somehow missing the "fun" factor, things werent zooming past me and all i can hear is a high pitched vtec screaming.

now thinking back to when i had my dc2r turbo... mmmm.... nothing like the sound of vtec hitting at 4700rpm then the wastegate cracking open at 5000rpm... damn then seeing 8500rpm limiter, that was a "fun" car to drive. didnt have a built motor, just standard internals which pumped out 268kw@wheels@16psi on drag tune (5th gear wheel spin) managed a 12.2@125mph, thats with a bogged launch. i use to drive it everyday with a street tune of 222kw@wheels on 11psi and never missed a beat. my ex gf used to drive it alot too but never hit boost. even once had a lamborghini gallardo pull up next to me on the cumberland hwy... poor guy.... put him to shame at the end of 4th gear by half a car length.

so yea, thats my 2 cents.... i think i want another boosted honda.... :zip:

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Sorry but how were you pushing 16psi on standard internals/compression. I wouldnt believe that till i sore it.

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Originally Posted by FastFwd

Sorry but how were you pushing 16psi on standard internals/compression. I wouldnt believe that till i sore it.

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dude i just showed u a dyno sheet, plus car with rego that matches the dyno sheet.

ppl that can vouch for my car are jdmyard, insight motorsports, is motor racing, toda and birrong automotive because i returned the car back to stock atleast 3 times

as i said before, im not doubting you but personally i wouldnt believe it until i sore it for my own eyes. Plus theres no where stating what compression ratio your running etc to tell me its stock internals otherwise. I'm running my eg upto 20 pound in a few weeks and i could tell every my internals were stock also. Sorry dude im not trying to discredit you but i just cant see that motor stock taking 16 pound and not exploding. and also anyone can get a stock b series with stock compression and boost it upto 16psi for 2 minutes on one dyno run and cross your fingers that nothing gives way just so you can get a dyno sheet that has 268kw.

maybe someone else can vouch for this cos if its true then i will be blown away.

yeah no problems .. ill vouch for AH_HUH ... on a PARTIAL very very SAFE tune, i made 230fwkw with over 400Nm of torque on 11psi with my unopened spoon crate motor .. powertune can vouch for it, as well as the fact that it would have handled 16psi easy and pushed well over 250 ... its all in the tuner .. if you have a good tuner, then your motor and setup are in safe hands :thumbsup:
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/r.../IMG_0674s.jpg

Here is a clip of it with the partial tune, slammed all around with -4 camber and bald tyres
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&h...&v=wOwADCYIcfg
Tell me that aint fun lol :p

wham bam thank u mam. i rest my case.

sorry kwayzivietnamese i've heard of people pushing them as high as 11psi and thats something i can definitely believe as many people do it but 16psi is a different story. I need someone who can vouch for his car on 16psi or another b series running 16psi.

call scott from insight motorsports, he is the one who tuned it and it shows 60 something runs that he had to do to get it right on the dyno.