Prelude VTi-R Header

Hey guys,

any of you looking for a decent set of headers for you H22A Preludes would know just how difficult it is to find a set that ticks all the boxes - stainless steel, good quality, reasonable price, easy fitment, nice design and most importantly significant gains. Sounds impossible I know, but I reckon I've found a header that has all these :-)

The header is an 'ebay special', however it is the EXACT Hytech/SMSP design so you know it's a quality design. It's TIG welded stainless steel and has very good quality craftsmanship.

I purchased it off a seller by the name of chameleondesignz. There are others on there that sell the same header, but he was a great seller and awesome to deal with.

I managed to pick up the header for sub $650AU including shipping, and that included head gasket and extension piece to attach to your exhaust..

The only fitment issues were that the O2 harness needed to be replaced because the stock one was too short (Around $115 for a Bosch), and also the crossmember had to be slight grinded away in order to fit the header in comfortably.

I recently just installed this header along with a Lukey 2.5" mild steel exhaust (Carline on Grange Road A+++) and the gains were immediately noticable. These headers were a great buy and i would strongly recommend them to anyone in the market with a VTEC Lude.


Anyway, hope this helps.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7776679_n.jpghttp://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...1_971269_n.jpg
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2826985_n.jpghttp://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5717020_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6550646_n.jpghttp://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5506410_n.jpg

i love this setup

i sat in the car as soon as it got fitted it pulled very hard right till top end
VERY NOTICEABLE GAINS!!!

beautiful headers!!!

good post man its seems youve picked up one of the gems off ebay!

you gotta be careful though theres some real dogs out there..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rbk_212

good post man its seems youve picked up one of the gems off ebay!

you gotta be careful though theres some real dogs out there..

---

Yeah mate you're not wrong there and you do have to be careful. In the case of this ebay seller, he had a very high feedback count and percentage rating which negated the risk factor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lukather

Yeah mate you're not wrong there and you do have to be careful. In the case of this ebay seller, he had a very high feedback count and percentage rating which negated the risk factor.

---

well youve made an informed decision and its paid off, so well done!

hows the performance?

nice job mates... the only header i could find off ebay is X-FORCE header ....
they are not too bad for a 5 gen prelude VTI-R ATTS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rbk_212

well youve made an informed decision and its paid off, so well done!

hows the performance?

---

Performance is great. Very noticeable pull in the mid-high rpm and the engine just breathes so much better

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lukather

Performance is great. Very noticeable pull in the mid-high rpm and the engine just breathes so much better

---

I can vouch for that :thumbsup:

Hytech and SMSP have multiple designs and are different manufacturers, and each of those manufacturers ask for the specs of your engines as they have different designs / specs for the setup you send.

So how can 1 set of headers combine multiple different specs from different manufacturers .......

congrats on the buy and gains but don't believe everything on ebay

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 94vtirozguy

Hytech and SMSP have multiple designs and are different manufacturers, and each of those manufacturers ask for the specs of your engines as they have different designs / specs for the setup you send.

So how can 1 set of headers combine multiple different specs from different manufacturers .......

congrats on the buy and gains but don't believe everything on ebay

---

Take some time and study both of their H series headers carefully. Both companys use a very similar design and for obvious reasons, there really isnt much space in the prelude chassis for many different variations (compared to EG/DC chassis)

there are 4 variations at SMSP for the h22 that i know of.

Some versions require the engine mount support and support brace to be modified to accomodate them :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 94vtirozguy

there are 4 variations at SMSP for the h22 that i know of.

Some versions require the engine mount support and support brace to be modified to accomodate them :)

---

Thats correct but some a specifically designed for H22a in EG/DC chassis and cant be used in a prelude

Direct from the hytech website
http://www.hytechexhaust.com/images/honda/hprelude2.jpg

and direct from the SMSP website
http://sms-products.com/images/h22_4-2-1.jpg

looks nice man. i think ill be having a look at this very soon. quick question. was there a big change in noise difference and are u runnin the test pipe?

looks the goods

headers dont make much of a noise difference in terms of volume and please please please dont run a test pipe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vtecprelly

looks nice man. i think ill be having a look at this very soon. quick question. was there a big change in noise difference and are u runnin the test pipe?

looks the goods

---

Well thats really dependant on what kind of exhaust setup you go for. I went for all Lukey with hi-flow cat, resinator, turbo muffler and 3" dual wall tip.

IMO the overall noise isn't drastically louder. I was actually surprised at how quiet it still was at idol and just normal cruising. When your squeezing the throttle and are under WOT then of course it is louder, but overall it's not defeaning and you should be able to manage your noise pollution fairly well :-P

And as for the test pipe no I am not running it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lukather

Well thats really dependant on what kind of exhaust setup you go for. I went for all Lukey with hi-flow cat, resinator, turbo muffler and 3" dual wall tip.

IMO the overall noise isn't drastically louder. I was actually surprised at how quiet it still was at idol and just normal cruising. When your squeezing the throttle and are under WOT then of course it is louder, but overall it's not defeaning and you should be able to manage your noise pollution fairly well :-P

And as for the test pipe no I am not running it

---

nice as. ill be lookin at this set. wasnt goin to run test pipe just wondering y ppl used them and if there were anygains other than different sound

the idea of the test pipe is that it removes one of the restrictions in the exhaust. ie, the cat

race cars run test pipes for example

these look really good actually? i have Xforce ones in my car and there not bad definately saw a gain compared to stock but that was expected im wondering the difference between these and the Xforce ones.?

hmm

hytech and SMSP are the best in the business when it comes to making extractors for the H22. They reportedly make huge gains compared to stuff like xforce but the downside is theyre extremely expensive and must be shipped over from the US

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by preludeman

these look really good actually? i have Xforce ones in my car and there not bad definately saw a gain compared to stock but that was expected im wondering the difference between these and the Xforce ones.?

hmm

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rbk_212

hytech and SMSP are the best in the business when it comes to making extractors for the H22. They reportedly make huge gains compared to stuff like xforce but the downside is theyre extremely expensive and must be shipped over from the US

---

Hytech and SMSP indeed are the best, the the gains on this are substantial and would be a step up from the Xforce.

In the past, as rbk noted, they were extremely pricey. But thanks to this header that is no longer an issue.

As for for shipping from the US, I dont think its too much of a downside and certainly no reason to not purchase one of these especially with the dollar at the moment gaining some ground. Shipping time was only about a week with USPS tracking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lukather

Hytech and SMSP indeed are the best, the the gains on this are substantial and would be a step up from the Xforce.

In the past, as rbk noted, they were extremely pricey. But thanks to this header that is no longer an issue.

As for for shipping from the US, I dont think its too much of a downside and certainly no reason to not purchase one of these especially with the dollar at the moment gaining some ground. Shipping time was only about a week with USPS tracking.

---

what i mean was they were expensive even in the US, so by the time we converted it AUD and shipped it over it was veeryy expensive

and i'd also like to point out that a copy is just that, a copy. Many hours of R&D go into developing SMSP and Hytech products and i dont think some knock off, however good, is a match for the real thing. its not just a matter of looking the same.

thats not to say i think you got a bad deal, im sure the header is fantastic and is still a big step up from stock

Be that as it may, the fact that a copy can produce the exact same result for less than half the price, more than warrants it as a match to the real thing.

The precedent R&D done by Hytech and SMSP is still present within the design of the replica, the only difference is that we as consumers dont have to pay for it.

but you dont know that for fact? like if someone had a hytech and a copy to dyno the difference then yeah we can say it is a great buy since its teh same results for the half the price. Although despite what im saying this does look like its been manufactured extremely well? and could be near to exactly the same????

so in this case u may be right

As soon as I can put it on the dyno I will post up the results and let them speak for themselves

yeah your speaking as if youve had all these headers and your saying the one you bought matched them, you cant know for sure

the runner diametres, collector flow designs, bend angles, primary and secondary lengths and head plate port matching are all integral parts of an extractors performance and replicas just dont replicate those sorts of details
As i said looking the same is not being the same.

however i say once more, if you say theyve given good gains and you didnt pay alot for them thats great, and its good youve posted this too share your experience with people

This is THE Randy Monroe design for the H22. It's not just a design that's sorta similar that someone has made by looking at pictures.

It's the exact same design.

Randy Monroe most probably sold the design and now it is able to be mass produced and sold for less, not unlike any of the other ebay specials that are floating around for the B series engines, which also include the Hytech and SMSP design. It was only a matter of time until there was one for the H22a prelude.

And if you're still not convinced that they can be as good as the real deal, just check out ZeForce's B20 VTEC Build thread and look at the header he was using NA and the power he was able to make.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda...Q5fAccessories

Check it out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lukather

This is THE Randy Monroe design for the H22. It's not just a design that's sorta similar that someone has made by looking at pictures.

It's the exact same design.

Randy Monroe most probably sold the design and now it is able to be mass produced and sold for less, not unlike any of the other ebay specials that are floating around for the B series engines, which also include the Hytech and SMSP design. It was only a matter of time until there was one for the H22a prelude.

And if you're still not convinced that they can be as good as the real deal, just check out ZeForce's B20 VTEC Build thread and look at the header he was using NA and the power he was able to make.

---

oh in that case why didnt you meantion it sooner!

like you said i thought this was a regular replica that jsut looks the same, in that case

you=1 SMSP=0

i have custom built extractors that have the same tri y designand im also very happy with them
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/o...032009_001.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rbk_212

oh in that case why didnt you meantion it sooner!

like you said i thought this was a regular replica that jsut looks the same, in that case

you=1 SMSP=0

i have custom built extractors that have the same tri y designand im also very happy with them
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/o...032009_001.jpg

---

From what I can see from the picture those merges arent anywhere near as good as the ones on the header used by lukather and also doesnt have the stepped primaries which are good for preventing reversion.

and where did i say mine where better than his? i was merely sharing my own experience

the merges are well constructed, i watched them being made. They were made long and free of sharp angles to smooth out flow and produce strong torque over a broad rpm (as it is a street car). . They also have quite a long collector which is also good for midrange, although you cant see that in the picture. I do concede they arent a stepped design but not many headers are (which is a bonus for lukather). Also they werent built by a machine so it looks scrappier than it really is as its not polished or anything.

i also paid alot less than lukather so for what i got im happy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rbk_212

yeah your speaking as if youve had all these headers and your saying the one you bought matched them, you cant know for sure

the runner diametres, collector flow designs, bend angles, primary and secondary lengths and head plate port matching are all integral parts of an extractors performance and replicas just dont replicate those sorts of details
As i said looking the same is not being the same.

however i say once more, if you say theyve given good gains and you didnt pay alot for them thats great, and its good youve posted this too share your experience with people

---

How many headers have you had in your prelude?
im my experience ive ridden in a few preludes from Si H23a to VtiR with H22a2 and H22a4 and by far Lukathers H22a2 has quite amount of power gain from other preludes ive been in.

in addition to your quote about branded orginal goods, i wonder why you ended up getting a custom manifold when you could have purchased a branded header

further more if you say your header has all the gains you state u should post a dyno read out here to and well do a comparason :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrKaji

How many headers have you had in your prelude?
im my experience ive ridden in a few preludes from Si H23a to VtiR with H22a2 and H22a4 and by far Lukathers H22a2 has quite amount of power gain from other preludes ive been in.

in addition to your quote about branded orginal goods, i wonder why you ended up getting a custom manifold when you could have purchased a branded header

further more if you say your header has all the gains you state u should post a dyno read out here to and well do a comparason :)

---

your exactly right my friend, but again i didnt mean to imply that my set up was better than his. Like i said for what i paid im happy with what i got.
all i was saying is that replicas are rarely as good as the real thing, but if this has worked for him thats great and i think its fantastic that this product is accessible to everyone.

as for opting for custom i went with the intention of getting xforce but a supplier mix up meant i ended up going custom (which also meant i could specify how i wanted them built for my application). i didn't have the funds for going a big brand like SMSP however much i'd have liked too!

even though this replica is cheap by comparison to the real thing, its still relatively expensive. maybe in the future when i get around to doing some head work ill swap to a better extractor, maybe even the one lukathers using!

as for the dyno comparison, ill get a read out when the car gets tuned, which wouldnt give an accurate depiction of the gains of the header, especially if other modifications have been undertaken. Unfortunately the only conclusive dyno comparisons are when 2 products are tested on the same day, at the same dyno, on the same car.
having said that im still interested to see the dyno print out of lukathers car

dyno for one car with one header, and comparing to a different car with different header is useless.

In summary you cannot expect the header bought off ebay to match one from Hytech or SMSP. Its how the item buyer evaluates how much they are prepared to cost vs gain. You are more likely to get basic modifiers who will settle for somethign generic and then you get people who highly modify their car who want something for their setup for maximum effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 94vtirozguy

dyno for one car with one header, and comparing to a different car with different header is useless.

In summary you cannot expect the header bought off ebay to match one from Hytech or SMSP. Its how the item buyer evaluates how much they are prepared to cost vs gain. You are more likely to get basic modifiers who will settle for somethign generic and then you get people who highly modify their car who want something for their setup for maximum effect.

---

I beg to differ. I would expect that my ebay header will match or atleast come extremely close to the gains of a Hytech or SMSP. I dont believe that cost is proportional to gain, and that you have spend spend more dollars to get more gains. You just have to be thorough in your research and smart with your spending.

As I've said before, if you don't believe that this sort of stuff is as good as the real deal as gives good gains, look at ZeForce's B20 build thread.

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q...enginebay2.jpg

Here are the results of this header.
Car: Mine, duh
Mods: eBay CAI w/ K&N, Carsound universal high-flow cat, custom 2.5" crush-bent exhaust, OBX muffler (2.5" In/Dual 3.0" Out)
Temp: 66ºF
Hum: 6%

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q...AFCTunedHP.jpg
Thread: http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...d.php?t=313773

This is the same header as what Lukather has in prelude... alot of the guys on preludepower.com are running this header with great results and no problems so far.. I for one have spent alot of money on my genuine Mugen header and the power gains were no where near what i would have wanted for the amount of money i spent.

Lukather just a question: how is the fitment of the header you bought? did you have to notch abit of your crossmember? a few guys in the states needed to notch their crossmember for it to fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeRV

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q...enginebay2.jpg

Here are the results of this header.
Car: Mine, duh
Mods: eBay CAI w/ K&N, Carsound universal high-flow cat, custom 2.5" crush-bent exhaust, OBX muffler (2.5" In/Dual 3.0" Out)
Temp: 66ºF
Hum: 6%

http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q...AFCTunedHP.jpg

This is the same header as what Lukather has in prelude... alot of the guys on preludepower.com are running this header with great results and no problems so far.. I for one have spent alot of money on my genuine Mugen header and the power gains were no where near what i would have wanted for the amount of money i spent.

Lukather just a question: how is the fitment of the header you bought? did you have to notch abit of your crossmember? a few guys in the states needed to notch their crossmember for it to fit.

---

Those look like some nice gains. I hope to get mine dynoed and tuned very soon and am anticipating some good results.

Yes I did have to have my crossmember grinded out a bit for it to fit. I think that's sort of a standard issue/modification with all or atleast most of the preludes when it comes to header fitment. Between that front mount and crossmember there's not alot of room so somethings gotta give. I'm not really fussed though because the gain I got was more than worth it :)

7.5kw at the wheels at 6750rpm (peak power) is, im sorry to say, about what to any full exhaust gets, fancy design or not

itd be interesting to see what you get as well lukather

but anyway dyno charts are bullshit anyway, if you say you can feel strong gains and your happy with it, then that's what is important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 94vtirozguy

dyno for one car with one header, and comparing to a different car with different header is useless.

In summary you cannot expect the header bought off ebay to match one from Hytech or SMSP. Its how the item buyer evaluates how much they are prepared to cost vs gain. You are more likely to get basic modifiers who will settle for somethign generic and then you get people who highly modify their car who want something for their setup for maximum effect.

---

its called a cost benefit analysis not cost vs gain
if one person to buy a branded header to make 15whp for $1000
and another person bought a replica which only made 12whp for $600
the extra 3hp wouldn't be noticeable realistically
so the concept of this that yes its a replica it may not produce the EXACT amount as the original but for the fraction of the cost one is able to extract similar or very close power gains of the original form

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rbk_212

7.5kw at the wheels at 6750rpm (peak power) is, im sorry to say, about what to any full exhaust gets, fancy design or not

itd be interesting to see what you get as well lukather

but anyway dyno charts are bullshit anyway, if you say you can feel strong gains and your happy with it, then that's what is important.

---

not true ive known a guy with the xforce header and loose power on a h22a
and ended up swapping the oem header on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrKaji

not true ive known a guy with the xforce header and loose power on a h22a
and ended up swapping the oem header on.

---

pfft i think youll find an entire forums worth of people that will disagree with you at preludeaustralia.com

as if a stainless steel mandrel bent header is going to be worse then the double walled, tiny diamtered and crush bent stock one

i thought i share this with u guy. h22a header, its a rep as well i think rmf. thanks to Ben for helping me out getting this thing. Just waiting for fitting and tune.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...8/IMG_0146.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...8/IMG_0145.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...8/IMG_0144.jpg

thats nice as. where did u pick that up from?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cvik_ryda

i thought i share this with u guy. h22a header, its a rep as well i think rmf. thanks to Ben for helping me out getting this thing. Just waiting for fitting and tune.
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...8/IMG_0146.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...8/IMG_0145.jpg
http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...8/IMG_0144.jpg

---

That looks to be the RMF Drag header replica which can also be bought off ebay for a fraction of the cost of the genuine version. Unfortunately. however, that won't fit in a prelude chassis.

That does look pretty aye btw these replica headers seem larger in tubing in comparison to the Xforce headers?? are they?? Also for $600 thats a lot of money for a set of headers but $1000 is astronomical and i completly concur with the benefit analysis over cost vs gain perception. I to believe that if you feel a gain of 12Kw rather than 15 for a saving of $400 i think that replica header has done a mighty fine job?!? especially if you can invest that $400 into something else that could potentially improve the cars gains alot more or even replacing old worn out parts with aftermarket parts?? i dont know uhhh....something like Camshafts for instance?? The replica headers are sufficent by far and you gained 2 mods for the price of one rather then spending $1000 and being $400 out of pocket with one mod? (ofcourse you'll need to install them and that costs and otehr parts are needed to have the camshafts put in, but the point is that you were still able to get the camshafts).

I'm pretty sure the RMF replica header can fit the Preludes, but it's just not A/C or P/S friendly.

yeah my header is not for a prelude. clear PS but aircon is a no no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeRV

I'm pretty sure the RMF replica header can fit the Preludes, but it's just not A/C or P/S friendly.

---

so its more for a track type thing?

yeah its pretty much a race header

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...iretuck039.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...iretuck042.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...iretuck041.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...iretuck040.jpg

This is the genuine RMF header ceramic coated in black and fitted in a 4th gen

man if only a wire tuck didnt cost a fortune huh.. lol

haha i know mate.. i wish my engine bay looked like that, simply awesome.

really? i reckon tucked bays look barren

i dunno it just doesnt seem right

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrKaji

not true ive known a guy with the xforce header and loose power on a h22a
and ended up swapping the oem header on.

---

xforce headers are better than oem. theres no denying it. so tell this 'guy u know' to put his xforce headers back on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rbk_212

so its more for a track type thing?

---

Yes that RMF header is a drag style header

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rbk_212

really? i reckon tucked bays look barren

i dunno it just doesnt seem right

---

i guess each to their own, to me an untucked engine bay just looks too messy and cluttered, which = an eye sore :p

^lol yeah i agree, especially with the H series, that engine bay is PACKED

but i think a partial tuck is nicer, when its tucked like that pic you posted i dunno it jsut sort of looks empty... although it does give a very clean appearance

Well it does give it a retro look I suppose if you like that. At least to me it looks retro since older cars (think something like a 70's Celica with a carborated 1600) tend to have massive engine bays with a little engine sitting in the middle. Suppose the modern look would be to stick some ugly plastic cover over the whole thing though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saikou27

xforce headers are better than oem. theres no denying it. so tell this 'guy u know' to put his xforce headers back on

---

tell him yourself if you love xforce so much

how are these ones with ps and ac?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vtecprelly

how are these ones with ps and ac?

---

If you're refering to mine, then they're all good no dramas :thumbsup:

ahh nice...where did u pick these up from? looking around at something to finish off my system

You can pick them up on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda...Q5fAccessories

Or you can join in on this group buy: http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...d.php?t=313773

thanks man. another question. was this in a 4th gen? and was there any ground clearance issues? i think as long as it dosnt sit low thant the bodykit i should be ok. same height as stock header would be great.

is the group buy in america? could be interesting....

I think as long as you don't slam your car you would be fine with ground clearance, although apparently it does sit lower than stock height. vtecprelly, if you do end up getting these, if you don't mind can you pm me... i would like to come around and check them out.

ok ill see how it goes. yeah i cant lower my car much cos of the kit...bit gay but oh well.

will let you know...do u live close?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vtecprelly

thanks man. another question. was this in a 4th gen? and was there any ground clearance issues? i think as long as it dosnt sit low thant the bodykit i should be ok. same height as stock header would be great.

is the group buy in america? could be interesting....

---

Yes this was in a 4th gen and I have had no ground clearance issues so far sitting on stock wheels at stock height :thumbsup:

nice. ill try work out pricing and shippin to aus and see if i can purchase one...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vtecprelly

nice. ill try work out pricing and shippin to aus and see if i can purchase one...

---

Good stuff. You wont regret it

Nice engine bay. So hard making an h22a bay look good.

il be doing a Dyno run very soon on a Xforce Header system 2.5 inch real soon soo you'll be able to see the differences. I still need to get a High clot metal cat but thats on the way. Im planning on upgrading to this Hytech replica when i can as i think these would be better for mysetup. So when possible il be able to show you the gains from just the Headers on dyno figures.

hey guys sorry for the noob question...by installing a custom made header and a whale penis on ma car do i need to have a modification plate for it?..sorry for the nooby question

i had headers, i compered them with the design welds etc of those that xforce make, i had them installed, drove in the car.. and gains= minimal if any. had my car tuned, and there was still no diffrence.
Maybe I should have fit an aftermarket exhaust to it at the same time.. but then who was to say the exhaust didnt improve my power ?

So technically the headers were not xforce, but were the same, OBX---Xforce headers. same thing.
-Chnage the collector like many say and you may win with power on the xforce, as to headers on the lude,...its something i dont want to be doing again :)

Wow awesome debate in this thread.......Once i get my h22a in my lude id like to compare to see the power difference with you lukather.

If what youre saying is true and you can really tell the power difference, then id definitely consider buying it. And the great thing is, im also from SA so i can go to the same place to get them installed!

How much the customs cost rbk_212?

Im from SA too, lets have a meet at an exhaust place:P

youll be generally paying 700-800 for custom, but it depends on the place, some can qoute well over $1000.

i got mine very cheap, and its a long story as to why