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Have been looking at some stroker kits for the B16a to take capacity to 1.8litre. i will be upgradeing all engine internals (cams, cam pullys, pistons, valve springs etc) and at some point adding individual throttle bodies as i would ideally want to stay N/a.
So the question is would i better off dropping the money into a b18 or even k20 maybe? or going mad on the b16a?
Swap out the bottom end for a B18b or B20b block, the b16a has a shorter deck height which will hurt your rod/stroke ratio if you stroke it
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
:thumbsup:
spend it on a k20
Actually, you can have an 1820cc B16A with a rod ratio of 1.58:1Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
Same as B18C (Aka TODA kit)
In fact you can even have an 1857cc B16A with a rod ratio of 1.54:1
Same as B18A/B20B
Further, if you sleeve the block & are willing to wait for the pistons to be made...
You can punch a B16A out to 2020cc & still have an acceptable rod ratio.
Still looks like a wee engine though...;)
I stand corrected... just out of curiosity, how much would the above setups cost?Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
geez,after all that work,wouldnt ya just sell the b16 block,buy some more deck height & do the same amount of workQuote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
or do k20 swap ;) is worth it
We can do that sort of thing, starting from $6500 - drive awayQuote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
Incl new crank, rods & pistons, machining costs, machining costs, labour in & out, genuine gaskets, oils, fluids etc...
Realisticly this is similar money to what you'd pay for a B20 bottom end.
That is one with high compression cast pistons, rod bolts, head overhaul etc fitted & tuned with Hondata
It's not really much work at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRXer
On balance, if you've got an end goal, a stroker B16A can deliver equal results to a mild or heavily modified B18C.
Minus the expense of a new engine.
That's not to say swapping to a B18 or B20 can't be done at a reasonable price...
As clearly it can & the B20 swap is very effective.
The advantage of the B16 stroker is less hastle on inspection... ;)
P-platers would understand this better...
ahh yes,the ol' sneaky engine number trickQuote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
i wonder if many people try it on in class racing?
i never thought of that lol..good one!Quote:
Originally Posted by CRXer
i dont know what the weight difference is between a b16 and a b18 but surely stroking the b16 must be lighter then the b18? could be wrong
You can tell the difference between a b16a and b18c block
I know proconcept is running a stroked B16a to stay in their class
I have always thought a LSVTEC with B16a pistons would make for a nice street setup. Deck the block 20 thou, ARP rod bolts and head studs, new rings and bearings, etc, etc shouldnt cost too much and will give you enough compression to use a decent sized cam. Add the usual I/H/E + IM/TB + tuning and I reckon you would have yourself a decent NA setup.
whats your budget
are you doing it yourself
or paying someone ?
9-10mm worth of alloy on top of the block,9-10mm lower centre of gravity.............Quote:
Originally Posted by reedyek4
meh,i'll take the longer rods option thanx.
is there some sort of readily visual external ID(besides engine#) without measuring?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
how would u tell at the track,besides pulling a random dyno run on the class & inspecting all the sus figures?
despise class cheats,they are the ones that get more enjoyment out of proving themselves better than others,rather than just enjoying driving for the sake of it.
driver skill>class cheats
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRXer
No point actually - If you look at IPRA, its "Under 2 litres" or "Over 2 litres"Quote:
Originally Posted by CRXer
So even if you bored up a 1.6 to 1.8 or even 2, you're still within the class - Thats not cheating.
It only matters if you have a 2litre B16 and you enter in under 1600 category (CAMS Supersprints), but as far as I know, one competitor ran a B16 in 1601 to 2000, but that not cheating either - Well within the rules. :wave:
Well, at the grass roots level - alot is taken on good faith - but seriously, there's no point cheating anyway, I mean, its only bragging rights you win..LOL
Proconcept ran the B16 block not so much to stay in class but to counter weight penalties. Had they ran a different block compared to what the car came with, IPRA rules states they will have to meet a minimum weight requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
Similar with Supersprints, which technically should comply with 3J rules (IPRA).
yeh,i got no idea of class rules leo,i'll prob never be fortunate enough to even go class racing lol.
just dont like the people abusing the "good faith" leaving the other drivers doubting their own skill.i can think of one person illegally using slicks in his grass roots class & bragging all over another forum right at this very moment.........
There is a little trick to know if its a b16a or b18c block.. i think is checking the water port outlet or something along those linesQuote:
Originally Posted by CRXer
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
My mate had a similar set-up which made decent power for the money spent :)
your thinking of the water outlet on the headQuote:
Originally Posted by Benson
pr3-intake side
p72-exhaust side
i mean the distance of the water port to the gearbox or the block(i think)
there's a bleeder valve for the radiator near the water port your looking at for a b18 & b16 doesn't have one
oh ok,yeh that makes sense,i suppose if uve seen enough of them it would be easy to spot evrything moved up or down 10mm or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
B16A base of the cyl head is level with top of gearbox...Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
B16B~B18C~b18A~B20B the base of the cyl head is 7mm above the top of the box
:thumbsup: Works well... Good value & good output....Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
off topic,but while your here dishing out free advice adrian,lol,
is P72 & PR3 head the same height or is P72 taller?
edit: overall height that is?
LOL... Same height....:thumbsup:
The intake ports of the P72 are at asteeper angle & enter the head higher on the head.
The exhaust ports are more simetrical in the P72...
For outright grunt, the P72 (ported) seems to perform better too...
165kw @ wheels + (NA)
also while on this topic adrian and you threw a number out there for how much that work was for the stroker...
2L stroker for the b16b/b18c..me having the b16b but looking at options when it come time to rebuild
Would it be around the same as what you quoted back on page one
either way when it comes time to build i know where i'm headed ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
cool thanx,my rubber cheque is in the mail.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
i always thought the straighter shot on the P72 woulda made it taller,just cant seem to work out why some of the EDB18 boys can get their bonnets closed & some cant,even though same mounts :confused:
For a basic 2L engine, yes that would be on the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by eg5civic
This would be using modified factory parts with forged pistons added to the top,
A rod ratio of around 1.50:1 can be maintained.
Kind of like the old Spoon 2L B18C in times gone by…
Rod/stroke ratio of 1.50 is a little on the low side, dunno if I would class that as "acceptable"Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
s**t me too :PQuote:
Originally Posted by eg5civic
was that $6500 for the 1.8 stroker or 2L?
2LQuote:
Originally Posted by reedyek4
Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
If i was going to crack it open it would be a serious rebuild but what i'm trying to ask is, is it better to stroke the b16b block to 2L or to buy a b20b and ls/vtec the block?
i was meaning to ask same question? reliability wise...providing the b16 has forged internals is the 20b more reliable?Quote:
Originally Posted by eg5civic
Theory aside...Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
It works....
That's the $20 question...Quote:
Originally Posted by reedyek4
& it depends what you're doing with it & how you look after it.
B20B is probably a cheaper alternative & can potentially last longer with lower piston speed, higher rev potential etc...
The stroked B16B/B18C has torque... Lots of it.
But generally won't make power past 8800rpm (& that;s with high comp, cams, head work & ideal intake & exhaust)
TODA won the Japanese national Ghymkhana championship 3 years in a row with an engine like this...
That engine is still going today (here in Aust), albeit the head on 1 car & the bottom end in another....
Very interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
I'm steering towards keeping the car n/a over a turbo, trying to decide whether i wanna stick with b or move onto newer technology
And 8800rpm is still high revving, and with the amount of torque it would create compared to the b16b i think it'll be a very possible option