Track Prep FN2R

I have been inspired by many car fans and builds such as BYP civic, JDM yard civic, Js Racing DC5R etc to name a few which has motivated me to mod my fn2r that i have recently purchased. Hence I would like to share my experiences on my build on this forum.

Firstly, although the stock rims complement the looks of the car, it is ridiculously heavy – weighted at approximately 20kg including tyres per corner! The rims/tyres alone weigh approx 80kg all up! Despite the weight of the rims, the stock tyres (Bridgestone Potenza RE050A) offer extremely good grip for street tyres. To pursue my path of weight reduction, I have purchased a set of Rays CE28Ns in gloss black (17x7.5 +43 offset) with a set of Yokohama Advan A048 semi slicks (225/45/17) for track and a set of Bridgestone Potenza Adrenalins RE001 for the street.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9489/img8683v.jpg

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1271/img8685.jpg

The ce28ns are impressively light-weight, approximately 5kg per corner! Which is a 5kg weight reduction from the stock rims which weight up approx 10kg each without tyres. From this I have already reduced 20kg all up of unsprung mass! To complement the rims I have also purchased a set of Rays Duralumin nuts  After driving the car, I could feel a day and night difference in driveability. The car requires less force and due to the less mass the car accelerates a lot faster, it seems like there is more available torque at every gear throughout the entire rev range. Furthermore, braking is also improved as it requires less braking force and due to the smaller diameter it absorbs shock slightly better. The semi slicks sound awesome! And they are effing grippy, it is almost impossible to lose traction driving these on the streets, the car feels like it is on rails and stick to the road like it should!

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5517/img8682.jpg

Secondly, I find that the stock intake system is very restrictive and after pulling it apart you will understand what I mean! It is massive and also weighs a fair bit...

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8408/img8695t.jpg

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/5210/img8693.jpg

Stock Intake System
http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/2420/img8704.jpg

Stock Air Box
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5567/img8706a.jpg

Stock Resonator
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7193/img8707t.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5791/img8692a.jpg

I wanted a cold air intake to give me better gains and induction sound. After doing much research, I was tossing up against either the gruppeM vs Injen intake. Effectively the gruppeM intake is a short ram intake using a K&N pod filter with a large carbon fiber scoop, used to ram air into the filter – for the price of this intake ($1000+) i could not justify purchasing it, people had also questioned whether the ram/scoop effect was effective or not as the scoop lies under the bonnet and draws air from the grill however some argue that the radiator was in the way and would not allow efficient air flow. My second option was injen, this intake is a true cold air intake that draws fresh air from the left hand side near the foglight/wheel arch. In the end, I chose the injen intake because many dynos results showed similar results to the gruppeM and it cost less than half the price!

Injen have designed a revised intake for the fn2 which I believe gives better gains as they have enlarged the diameter of piping, filter and use a different mounting bracket. However, there were a few hiccups to installing this intake and I would like to give credit to the JDM yard crew who had spent a lot of time with me to ensure this intake fitted perfectly (pm me if you need details). I also bypassed the throttle body coolant line and as result the intake manifold is a lot cooler even after a hard drive, i can comfortably place my hands over the manifold whereas before it can get extremely hot especially due to our small engine bay. In conclusion, the injen intake delivers good gains throughout the rev range (dynos show a positive +6hp net gain) and is much more responsive with no flat spots at all. The foglight however seems to cover up the area of the filter, so i am looking into removing the foglight and making my own ram or scoop to deliver more direct air. Another alternative is to use the mugen air garnish but it does cost a small fortune...

Injen Cold Air Intake
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9639/img8710.jpg

Piping and hoses removed for tb coolant bypass
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4858/img8711d.jpg

Hopefully sometime I get the chance to track the car as is before I make further developments, next I will be looking further into upgrading suspension and brakes before I chase more power so stay tuned!

Hahaha i live near you and drive by your house alot... and I drove by your house when I saw you doing this stuff to your FN2R (wont say where for security purposes)
car looks good mate! I like the white type r rims on the other fn2 you/your friend etc has aswell :D

P.S its chris.. jimmies old mate :D

Sorry for the small pictures, I have resized and uploaded them. Haha thanks chris, glad to hear from u..just pop down next time if you drive by :)

sick!! another tracker

before you hit the track remember to install an oil cooler and baffled sump just so you dont get oil starvation esp when youre running those semi slicks.

g'day fellas..i had a similar dilemma

this is for an alternative to the mugen air intake garnish which wouldnt' put a dent in ur pocket or leave u starving for a month. initially i only had the holes drilled in each slot but thought that there wouldn't be enough space for the air to make it through so i decided to cut as far as i could

in doing so the sound that comes from it you can tell that there is ALOT more air getting to the intake now !!

i'm not sure about local dealers but you can source the foglight inserts from Civinfo. I got mine through Gordons Honda for £65 (this included shipping) but from what i remember he mentioned that the price had gone up since Dec 09. fyi its better just to order the pair for the extra £5

if you have a free day on the weekend just chop it up and cut out the solid honeycomb insert like so

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...kegarnish1.jpg
you can see the injen cai's useless bracket hiding behind

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...akegarnish.jpg
i also added flyscreen mesh behind to stop rocks and bugs from flying inside (held down around the edges by selleys clear silicon)

hope this helps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damienm

before you hit the track remember to install an oil cooler and baffled sump just so you dont get oil starvation esp when youre running those semi slicks.

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Thanks for the tips, already looking into them. Do the type r's already come with an oil cooler stock? If not which kit can I use for the fn2r? Another question is running 5W-30 viscosity engine oil fine for track?

Thanks br3nny, that was a great post and good alternative to the mugen air garnish, ill try to source the inserts :) Do you ever get problems with rain going through the inserts? and can you show me a picture of the car in whole with the inserts? i.e. a full pic of the car, thanks.

im pretty sure they dont come with an oil cooler stock. Get an oil cooler off jdm yard along with the fittings n stuff and you can custom mount it yourself. Try go for a 10W-40 oil when youre tracking just for insurance as the 5W-30 is a bit thin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damienm

im pretty sure they dont come with an oil cooler stock. Get an oil cooler off jdm yard along with the fittings n stuff and you can custom mount it yourself. Try go for a 10W-40 oil when youre tracking just for insurance as the 5W-30 is a bit thin

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Thanks for the tips mate.

oil pan is not necessary if you keep your oil levels in check
mines done 65000km with a lot of track abuse with semi slicks and its fine
the FN2 sump is much better designed than previous K20s
oil cooler also not necessary unless you are doing constant 20-30min stints of hard driving
K20 comes with with a basic integrated oil cooler as part of the radiator

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Thanks br3nny, that was a great post and good alternative to the mugen air garnish, ill try to source the inserts :) Do you ever get problems with rain going through the inserts? and can you show me a picture of the car in whole with the inserts? i.e. a full pic of the car, thanks.

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hey no problem with rain, just get a hydroshield for the filter and you should be good, just remember that its NOTWATERPROOF best way to describe it is like water beads while its along it common sense just tells you to avoid puddles (which need to be around knee height to before you actually start sucking up water)

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...PreFilters.jpg

and pictures as requested

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...takefront1.jpg
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/a...takefront2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lukits01

oil pan is not necessary if you keep your oil levels in check
mines done 65000km with a lot of track abuse with semi slicks and its fine
the FN2 sump is much better designed than previous K20s
oil cooler also not necessary unless you are doing constant 20-30min stints of hard driving
K20 comes with with a basic integrated oil cooler as part of the radiator

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Thanks lukits, I would only be seeing track on a occassional basis so I doubt I would be doing constant hard drives. Btw you got pm

Damn br3nny, your car looks agressive! Luckily we have trangular foglights lol if they were round it would look like we have empty holes! Looks very good though, ill do something similar :P
Btw what's n3rb mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Damn br3nny, your car looks agressive! Luckily we have trangular foglights lol if they were round it would look like we have empty holes! Looks very good though, ill do something similar :P
Btw what's n3rb mean?

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cheers buddy,everyone asks hahah its bren backwards...its a good way to kill 1/2 a day on the weekend, just have a drill .... sharp stanley and a small smooth file and some selley's all clear silicon (i find this one works best when theres water involved) handy

let us know how you go !

Keep up the good work

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EG5

Keep up the good work

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Couldn't have done it without your help! Thanks again

any future plans ??

Thanks to all those who helped me with answering my questions regarding track preparation. I finally had the opportunity to track the car today at wakefield park open day, there wern't too many cars which meant I had more sessions and less presure from faster cars.

This is my first manual car and first track day, so i thought I would share my experiences and would be great to see any suggestions that would help me go faster! Being the first time on track, I was not very confident about the car at all as I have never pushed the car to its limits however slowly i gained confidence throughout the day.

The car is stock except for an injen CAI and I was running street tyres 225/45/17 on my 17x7.5inch CE28Ns. I felt that the car is overall very responsive especially during cornering however loses traction at front wheels very easily and understeers quite a fair bit. Running a torsion beam rear allows the rear to sit very flat through the corner, making it quite hard to get oversteer.
I tried to combat these problems by braking hard to shift weight to the front wheels, so the rear would lift up a bit and gain traction at the front --> this resulted in a little bit less understeer but a huge sacrifice in time. The brakes on this car are ridiculously shit and I really mean that, for a 1300kg car I think honda could have done better, but i guess we can only improve to make things better. The stock brakes absolutely gives you no confidence in braking, hence holding me back to go any faster. At the end of the day, my brakes are very spongy and don't feel that they could last much longer. So I have already ordered some Ferodo DS2500 brake pads, Goodridge stainless brake lines and will bleed and flush fluid with better brake fluid (thanks to JDMyard for sourcing this for me) which I will test out next track day (who knows when at this stage).

The car has very little corner exit grip most likely due to the lack of an LSD. Furthermore, the car does roll quite a fair bit during the tighter turns, my question is will a stock lsd from a dc5r or k20 gearbox be much of an improvement? Or should I be looking into aftermarket LSD's? And what the advantages/disadvantages of clutch type vs helical? And can anyone recommend coilovers for the fn2r for proven performance?

Overall my best lap time for the day would be in the 1.20s using my friend's lap timer, I think I can improve on this. Overall, it was a great day and great fun - i recommend everyone to go out there and try for yourself, you will learn more about your car after each lap and each session, definately will not dissapoint. Although I did witness a few unsightful events as my mates sti caught on fire and another sti with a blown head gasket :(

PS it was also very important to note that playing around with the tyre pressures made a huge difference in handling. At cold, they were set up to 33(front) and 36(rear). After a few hot laps, they rose to about 38(front) and almost 40(rear). I thought the pressure at 38psi the fronts were too high and so i reduced to 36psi and left the rears as is and i noticed much more grip at the front wheels. Another question -> whats optimal tyre size for a 7.5inch rim on track? Should i try 215 width tyres?

Glad you had a good first experience on the track. It'll only make you want to go more now :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

whats optimal tyre size for a 7.5inch rim on track? Should i try 215 width tyres?

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I think (correct me if i'm wrong) it's 225 for a 7.5 rim.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

The car has very little corner exit grip most likely due to the lack of an LSD. Furthermore, the car does roll quite a fair bit during the tighter turns, my question is will a stock lsd from a dc5r or k20 gearbox be much of an improvement? Or should I be looking into aftermarket LSD's? And what the advantages/disadvantages of clutch type vs helical? And can anyone recommend coilovers for the fn2r for proven performance?

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Clutch type work even if one tyre totally loses traction but is noisy, requires special transmission fluid and the clutch components have to be replaced every few years. Helical is quiet, works with standard transmission fluid, is maintenance free and doesn't wear out unless abused. Either way, LSD is a big advantage on the track.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Overall my best lap time for the day would be in the 1.20s using my friend's lap timer, I think I can improve on this. Overall, it was a great day and great fun - i recommend everyone to go out there and try for yourself, you will learn more about your car after each lap and each session, definately will not dissapoint. Although I did witness a few unsightful events as my mates sti caught on fire and another sti with a blown head gasket :(

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Congrats. Going on track is fun and shows all the flaws in the car's set up. Did your mate run continuous hot laps and did not cool down? Or did he just have an oil leak which caught fire?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

The car has very little corner exit grip most likely due to the lack of an LSD. Furthermore, the car does roll quite a fair bit during the tighter turns, my question is will a stock lsd from a dc5r or k20 gearbox be much of an improvement? Or should I be looking into aftermarket LSD's? And what the advantages/disadvantages of clutch type vs helical? And can anyone recommend coilovers for the fn2r for proven performance?

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annoying aint it? hehe :p
LSD choice comes down to budget really, you are already paying a small fortune for labor
so OEM torsen diffs are cheap and cheerful, aftermarket can be double the cost and plate types even more. Some kind of LSD is a huge improvement over none, and plate type another step up, obviously with the sacrifices in maintainability.

Look into AST and KW suspension for coilovers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lukits01

annoying aint it? hehe :p
LSD choice comes down to budget really, you are already paying a small fortune for labor
so OEM torsen diffs are cheap and cheerful, aftermarket can be double the cost and plate types even more. Some kind of LSD is a huge improvement over none, and plate type another step up, obviously with the sacrifices in maintainability.

Look into AST and KW suspension for coilovers

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Extremely annoying...I think you would know exactly what i meant haha.
Since I won't be seeing track that often, maybe only a few times per year, I would prefer a helical type lsd and will most likely go for an oem k20 lsd since i can source them around the $500 mark.

From your experience, did changing suspension improve your lap times on your car? Why did you choose KW over other brands available? I don't much about KW, so please fill me in!
What are the spring rates on KW coilovers? And are they idependently height adjustable to spring preload? I also noticed that there are 3 variants available, what is best suited for daily driving and some track/circuit work?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

The brakes on this car are ridiculously shit and I really mean that, for a 1300kg car I think honda could have done better, but i guess we can only improve to make things better. The stock brakes absolutely gives you no confidence in braking, hence holding me back to go any faster. At the end of the day, my brakes are very spongy and don't feel that they could last much longer.

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1100000% AGREE, very very shit indeed....you can't get any good feeling or confidence knowing your going to slow down enough !!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

The car has very little corner exit grip most likely due to the lack of an LSD

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AGREE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by br3nny

1100000% AGREE, very very shit indeed....you can't get any good feeling or confidence knowing your going to slow down enough !!!



AGREE

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Hahaha im glad you feel the same way, they are already shit enough for what they are on the street...you could only imagine what it is like on track.........

I can agree a million % with you regarding the LSD.

Having owned an 07 FN2R to now driving a 10 FN2R, I can definitely say it makes huge improvements.
Before I'd feel car the car not turning and having less grip means loosing traction, however now the car just grips crazy.

Out of curiosity which LSD does the 10 FN2R use?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Extremely annoying...I think you would know exactly what i meant haha.
Since I won't be seeing track that often, maybe only a few times per year, I would prefer a helical type lsd and will most likely go for an oem k20 lsd since i can source them around the $500 mark.

From your experience, did changing suspension improve your lap times on your car? Why did you choose KW over other brands available? I don't much about KW, so please fill me in!
What are the spring rates on KW coilovers? And are they idependently height adjustable to spring preload? I also noticed that there are 3 variants available, what is best suited for daily driving and some track/circuit work?

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haha was no brainer really... I wouldn't touch Japanese suspension with a 10-foot pole
and these guys were the first to come out with coilovers for the FN2, so... there were no other brands available! lol

V1 is only height adjustable, V2 adds rebound adjustment, V3 adds bump adjustment
the valving is all very similar, only a matter of how much time will you spend tweaking the settings.
springs are progressive, so there's no linear spring rates per say.
also no separate height adjustment to spring pre-load. KW products are made to be sold in Germany, they have to past very strict TUV test to be deemed road worthy.
i.e. they aren't allowed to be too low otherwise some German bureaucrat (the most anal of bureaucrats) will fail the certification.
I guess that should mean something, that they are certified for road use in Germany and not "For Race Use Only"
could always just read the promo material: http://www.kw-suspension.com/us/kw_valve_technology.php

the only other alternative I would consider (at least until Ohlins get around to making their kit) is AST: http://www.ast-suspension.com/sportline2.asp?make=Honda
but there's very little info on them at the moment. Of course these suspension upgrades will improve lap times, but they are redundant without a good LSD.

I had KW V2 in my Golf GTI (3yrs ago)
They are too hardcore and I don't recommend them to you...unless you bringing a mechanic with you to track
try adjust the rear damping you will know why

and how come you set the rear tyre pressure higher than the front?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Congrats. Going on track is fun and shows all the flaws in the car's set up. Did your mate run continuous hot laps and did not cool down? Or did he just have an oil leak which caught fire?

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Aaron, yeah unfortunately my mates sti had an oil leak which dripped onto his exhaust manifold and sparked up a fire. The dangers of motorsport :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Menzy

I can agree a million % with you regarding the LSD.

Having owned an 07 FN2R to now driving a 10 FN2R, I can definitely say it makes huge improvements.
Before I'd feel car the car not turning and having less grip means loosing traction, however now the car just grips crazy.

Out of curiosity which LSD does the 10 FN2R use?

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menzy, have u tracked ur car at Wakefield? I'm curious to know other peoples lap times with and without LSD. Can u actually feel the improvement on the street? I didn't think you could as I hardly ever break traction with the already grippy street tyres. The LSD would be the oem LSD used in all k20 gearboxes

normal driving you will not feel any difference from having LSD
but when you stomp on the gas at a corner's apex you will definately feel the LSD doing its work
even on a normal right hand turn i can punch the accel in 2nd turning at 50 with no loss of traction with lsd :)
but turn off VSA, the car feels weird with VSA active and using LSD lol steering is wobbly...

I haven't tracked the car yet... want to break in some more ks before I even think about it.
When you say the the oem LSD, which is what? I have no idea

It's a Honda oem helical type LSD which are found in k20a gearboxes such as the dc5r,ep3r and cl7

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moo moo nel

I had KW V2 in my Golf GTI (3yrs ago)
They are too hardcore and I don't recommend them to you...unless you bringing a mechanic with you to track
try adjust the rear damping you will know why

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curious to know what you mean by that... I've adjusted my rear damping and still don't know why haha

^ different car, different application, different style of adjusting dampening? im assuming its alot harder to adjust the dampening on the gti

for GTI if you want to adjust the rear damping, you have to take the whole rear shock off and then press it and twist
how about FN2?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moo moo nel

for GTI if you want to adjust the rear damping, you have to take the whole rear shock off and then press it and twist
how about FN2?

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ahh, nothing like that, just allen keys on the top and bottom of the shocks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lukits01

haha was no brainer really... I wouldn't touch Japanese suspension with a 10-foot pole
and these guys were the first to come out with coilovers for the FN2, so... there were no other brands available! lol

V1 is only height adjustable, V2 adds rebound adjustment, V3 adds bump adjustment
the valving is all very similar, only a matter of how much time will you spend tweaking the settings.
springs are progressive, so there's no linear spring rates per say.
also no separate height adjustment to spring pre-load. KW products are made to be sold in Germany, they have to past very strict TUV test to be deemed road worthy.
i.e. they aren't allowed to be too low otherwise some German bureaucrat (the most anal of bureaucrats) will fail the certification.
I guess that should mean something, that they are certified for road use in Germany and not "For Race Use Only"
could always just read the promo material: http://www.kw-suspension.com/us/kw_valve_technology.php

the only other alternative I would consider (at least until Ohlins get around to making their kit) is AST: http://www.ast-suspension.com/sportline2.asp?make=Honda
but there's very little info on them at the moment. Of course these suspension upgrades will improve lap times, but they are redundant without a good LSD.

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Hey lukits, you seem to be against japanese made coilovers, any reason(s) behind your mindset?
What is the difference between rebound and bump adjustment?
Are there any advantages for progressive spring rates compared to fixed spring rates? What is the best way to reduce roll resistance? I noticed you installed a rear sway bar, how does help to the fn2r as I feel that the rear stays pretty flat through corners in stock setup.

Funny you mention that about the brakes, they certainly don't look the part.

Where's our OEM brembos!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Hey lukits, you seem to be against japanese made coilovers, any reason(s) behind your mindset?
What is the difference between rebound and bump adjustment?
Are there any advantages for progressive spring rates compared to fixed spring rates? What is the best way to reduce roll resistance? I noticed you installed a rear sway bar, how does help to the fn2r as I feel that the rear stays pretty flat through corners in stock setup.

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mmm nothing technical really, just never seen one that I've been impressed with, seen a few too, HKS/Buddyclub/GReddy/Spoon/Toda/Cusco they've all been pretty rubbish with their setup.
A few of the top of the range Tein was alright, but still nowhere close to the range of capabilities of the European offerings.
In general, silly spring rates and overdamped to compensate for silly spring rates.
So what you get is a car that can't handle bumps and just too stiff to allow any kind of weight transfer.

theoretically progressive spring rates gives more comfortable ride but sacrificing response, they need the shocks to be valved to suit. So you shouldn't change springs with shock absorbers valved for progressive spring rates. Progressive springs are best for road use, a GOOD (e.g. hypercoil/swift/eibach) linear spring for performance use.

Have a read at this website: http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

also theoretically a slightly over-steering car is always the faster car, the stiffer rear swaybar is there to help lift the inside rear wheel, transferring the weight to the other 3 wheels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lukits01

mmm nothing technical really, just never seen one that I've been impressed with, seen a few too, HKS/Buddyclub/GReddy/Spoon/Toda they've all been pretty rubbish with their setup.
A few of the top of the range Tein was alright, but still nowhere close to the range of capabilities of the European offerings.
In general, silly spring rates and overdamped to compensate for silly spring rates.
So what you get is a car that can't handle bumps and just too stiff to allow any kind of weight transfer.

theoretically progressive spring rates gives more comfortable ride but sacrificing response, they need the shocks to be valved to suit. So you shouldn't change springs with shock absorbers valved for progressive spring rates. Progressive springs are best for road use, a GOOD (e.g. hypercoil/swift/eibach) linear spring for performance use.

Have a read at this website: http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

also theoretically a slightly over-steering car is always the faster car, the stiffer rear swaybar is there to help lift the inside rear wheel, transferring the weight to the other 3 wheels.

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Thanks lukits, that information helps me to understand alot more. So you would say the KW coilovers are a very good balance for both street comfort and track performance? If you don't mind, where did you source them and how much? Do whiteline/selby still offer that sway bar to the public?? I can't seem to grab hold of one. And regarding your brake setup, is it still possible to run DC5/EP3/FN2 rotors without using S2000 rotors to fit the brembos?

I hoping to see track again in September/August so first things on my mind are upgrade the braking system, suspension and drivetrain before i chase any more power. I hope this thread inspires a few more fn2rs to see the track ;)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/...59d4d2d7_b.jpg

At track :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Thanks lukits, that information helps me to understand alot more. So you would say the KW coilovers are a very good balance for both street comfort and track performance? If you don't mind, where did you source them and how much? Do whiteline/selby still offer that sway bar to the public?? I can't seem to grab hold of one. And regarding your brake setup, is it still possible to run DC5/EP3/FN2 rotors without using S2000 rotors to fit the brembos?

I hoping to see track again in September/August so first things on my mind are upgrade the braking system, suspension and drivetrain before i chase any more power. I hope this thread inspires a few more fn2rs to see the track ;)

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good choice, power is wasted on the track without LSD, just spins the inside wheel all the time.
why not email whiteline themselves about the swaybars? I was pointed to selby's by whiteline when I inquired about making custom swaybars.

It is a lot more work to get stock rotors to work with the brembos, change wheel bearings, extended studs, custom 7.5mm spacers behind the rotor and after all that you might still need spacers for your wheels and it wont be hubcentric anymore since the hub spigot will sink into the rotors. I don't recommend it, if you must go to DC5R brembos, use S2000 rotors, and nice ones at that.
but its quite overkill for the casual track car, nothing a good choice of pads and fluids cant do.

I would say the KW is a great for street/track use, with primarily street use. In hindsight, I would've liked coilovers valved for linear springs, but the KWs has never given me a reason to complain.
having said that though, I've heard of 1-2 cases of V2s leaking and replaced under warranty, so they aren't without the odd faulty batch. I think the distributor is Inmotive motorsport or something like that, I just went from the KW website and they listed the Australian dealer.

More Track Photos ~

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4057/mg1349.jpg

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4460/mg1348.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/421/mg1092.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9016/mg1089t.jpg

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3353/mg0799.jpg

Waiting on my brake setup to be installed before i hit track again...

nice pics !!

UPDATE : ~

I'll be seeing the track next month so I have had a new brake setup, as you would have read in my earlier reflection at track with the stock brakes they were very poor in terms of braking performance and feel. Now im running:

Dixcel Type HS Slotted & Heat Treated Rotors and
Endless MX72 brake pads (these are the same parts as DC5R/EP3R)
I have left the rear brakes completely stock, as most of the braking effort is required at the front

http://a.imageshack.us/img130/571/img8927nw.jpg

After the initial break in period, they feel completely different and much more responsive! Braking effort seems to be reduced quite a considerable amount, I have yet to test these at track but so far so good = ) Currently i am still using the OEM honda brake fluid, before track i will change to braided lines with Motul RBF600 Dot 4 brake fluid

I have also installed a Defi Racer 52mm Oil Temp Gauge wired to the dash

http://a.imageshack.us/img267/1165/img8938v.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img693/9378/img8947z.jpg

Changed the OEM round gearknob to a Mugen 6speed gearknob and it is hell lot easier to shift as I find the round one too small, the mugen gearknob is also slightly heavier, making shifts feel firmer and confident and best of all it removed the notchy feeling

http://a.imageshack.us/img714/3620/img8937r.jpg

As we speak, I am having a Honda OEM Helical LSD taken from a CL7 Euro R fitted into my gearbox with an Exedy Sports Organic Clutch & 3.8kg Lightened Flywheel.
Once its all in, I will report back on how they perform. Any FN2R's in sydney want to join me in track next month??

Hey mate, in changing your break setup, have you noticed "less" dust on the wheels...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Menzy

Hey mate, in changing your break setup, have you noticed "less" dust on the wheels...

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Hardly any brake dust on the front but still heaps on the rear

oh man, i got parts sitting here and no time to install them. Hopefully i can get the KWv2 installed today. When is track day?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smoothaz

oh man, i got parts sitting here and no time to install them. Hopefully i can get the KWv2 installed today. When is track day?

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Let me know how those coilovers are once you got them in, im really interested in a new suspension setup.
What are the main differences between the v2 and v3? How much do they cost landed in Aust?
Haven't decided which day but will be around mid-end sept and looking to go in on an open day to get more time & practice

Pics are updated on page 4

New clutch & flywheel and LSD are installed and damn it is amazing - with compliments to Adrian from Toda for doing such a great job all in less than half a day

http://a.imageshack.us/img101/794/img8948v.jpg

The exedy sports organic clutch grabs & bites hard which a much better pedal feel, friction point is overall the same probably slightly lower but pedal is a lot stiffer and stronger compared
to the stock one which feels very soft & weak.

Furthermore, depsite that we already have a lightened flywheel of 4.8kg, i thought i might as well change everything since the gearbox is coming out I fitted the clutch with an exedy 3.8kg flywheel.
Together as a combo, this is one of the best modification I have done to a car, the engine revs so smoothly and swiftly and feels like the car accelerates a lot faster.
I guess less power is lost through the transmission as a result of weight reduction. Definately a worthwhile investment!

As mentioned previously, I sourced a torsen type helical LSD from a CL7 Euro R, which i believe would be the same part on DC5R/EP3R and fitted it into my gearbox.
During normal driving, it acts like an open diff and being a gear type LSD its silent and doesn't chatter. So far, having driven it on the street only I am already very impressed with the improvement
of an LSD, when cornering the nose tucks in and just keeps turning without any sign of understeering! I obviously haven't pushed it anywhere to its limit on the street so I am highly anticipating to try this
at track! Research shows almost a 2second improvement over the 2007 vs 2010 FN2R at track. Due to the fact that the FN2R uses electric power steering, after installing the LSD, the steering wheel does feel a littler more heavier when taking corners at slower speeds and seems to pull your steering wheel.

http://a.imageshack.us/img64/4227/img8675h.jpg

Got my KW installed yesterday and the results are amazing. Its significantly smoother and has less body roll. I havent done proper tests with it yet but it feels so much nicer to drive.
Still need to adjust the height as it is too low and rubbing on hard turns. If you ever install these yourself, make sure you remove the oem bump stops on the front top mounts. I learnt it
the hard way and had to remove the front coilovers again. Take extreme care when removing the 3 nuts and holds the top mount, once you drop the nut its gone.
How much did it cost to put the LSD in? Im still deciding if i should DIY or just take it to a mech. The KW costed me about $1850 landed and the difference in the models
you can read here http://inmotive.com.au/index.php?opt...d=16&Itemid=28
All i need to do now is install the quaife, pads and fluids.

That's awesome another fn2r set up for track! Are you located within Sydney?
I hope you could join in me track. Labour to install LSD, clutch and flywheel was approximately $700-800
if your confident do it yourself otherwise just pay a mechanic for peace of mind, insure you don't want
your gearbox failing on you. Not changing clutch/flywheel while your at it?

I hear that the quaiffe LSD Is pretty good, similar to Honda but with a more
aggressive torque bias ratio. How much did that cost you?

Care to share which brake pads you are gonna run?
Have you been to wakefield before with the type r?

I fail to see how this is track prep without even so much as a roll cage?

Basically, it's a road car with mods to assist when on the track. It's not a full time track car so
a roll cage is not neccessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

That's awesome another fn2r set up for track! Are you located within Sydney?
I hope you could join in me track. Labour to install LSD, clutch and flywheel was approximately $700-800
if your confident do it yourself otherwise just pay a mechanic for peace of mind, insure you don't want
your gearbox failing on you. Not changing clutch/flywheel while your at it?

I hear that the quaiffe LSD Is pretty good, similar to Honda but with a more
aggressive torque bias ratio. How much did that cost you?

Care to share which brake pads you are gonna run?
Have you been to wakefield before with the type r?

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The quaife costs just under 1k landed from CPL Racing UK. I'm still deciding if I should get new clutch and flywheel or an exhaust system. I'm using endless type r pads for the front and ebc red stuff for the rear. I took it to wakefield last year and did a 1.17 which is not bad for a first timer. Hopefully I can do better with all these mods, aiming for 1.14 this time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drew

I fail to see how this is track prep without even so much as a roll cage?

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That's funny...I didn't know you must have a rollcage to track your car...
The car is already pretty stiff in terms of chassis rigidity

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smoothaz

The quaife costs just under 1k landed from CPL Racing UK. I'm still deciding if I should get new clutch and flywheel or an exhaust system. I'm using endless type r pads for the front and ebc red stuff for the rear. I took it to wakefield last year and did a 1.17 which is not bad for a first timer. Hopefully I can do better with all these mods, aiming for 1.14 this time.

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Exhaust won't really help you improving lap times, get a heavy duty clutch combo with a lighter flywheel, u will notice a bigger difference!
Are you using stock brake lines or aftermarket lines?

1.17 is very impressive, was this with stock car? My first time was only 1.23

1.14 will definately be achievable. Really interested in how the KW coilovers & quaiffe LSD perform on track.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

1.17 is very impressive, was this with stock car? My first time was only 1.23

1.14 will definately be achievable. Really interested in how the KW coilovers & quaiffe LSD perform on track.

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With the FN2R, you will be able to get much lower than 1:17 after your 2nd outing at Wakefield. The LSD will cut down the time a bit more because you will be able to power out of the fish hook corner at full throttle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

With the FN2R, you will be able to get much lower than 1:17 after your 2nd outing at Wakefield. The LSD will cut down the time a bit more because you will be able to power out of the fish hook corner at full throttle.

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I hope that will be the case! First time the car was understeering so much that the wheels were spinning and losing traction.
How do you usually approach the second corner after the first kink? More specifically, what speed do you usually enter? I think i may be taking the corner too fast...last time i remembered i was entering
almost near 100km/h

second corner in wakefield i usually take it at about 100km/hr as well in my FN2R. I cut quite alot of the corner. For me personally i dont like to hit the apex of the first corner, i take the line on the left hand side of the track on the first corner and carry the speed into the second corner. 1:17 is not bad at all. I think the limit for Stock fn2 R is about 1:15 although my best time is in the low 1:16 :(. I think with your mods and more experience you will get in the 1:14s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sitta

second corner in wakefield i usually take it at about 100km/hr as well in my FN2R. I cut quite alot of the corner. For me personally i dont like to hit the apex of the first corner, i take the line on the left hand side of the track on the first corner and carry the speed into the second corner. 1:17 is not bad at all. I think the limit for Stock fn2 R is about 1:15 although my best time is in the low 1:16 :(. I think with your mods and more experience you will get in the 1:14s

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Very impressive :) I'll aim to get into 1.16s first and then work from there!
Btw, now that I have the LSD installed, im assuming VSA will work in conjuction with no conflicts? Do you guys usually turn VSA off at track or leave it on?
Any advantages/disadvantages to leaving it on?

turn vsa off when youre on the track, im sure with the A048s and lsd you can achieve 1.12s on your second go at wakefield. Ill try come with you next time so you can follow me i did 1.10.3 third time i was there with a 96 spec b18cr (gearing is so sh1t for wakefield)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damienm

turn vsa off when youre on the track, im sure with the A048s and lsd you can achieve 1.12s on your second go at wakefield. Ill try come with you next time so you can follow me i did 1.10.3 third time i was there with a 96 spec b18cr (gearing is so sh1t for wakefield)

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Wow your very optimistic! Yea i definately need someone to follow as the first time I didnt follow anyone (my mates STi was too quick and ended up alone) and my lines were all messy.
Im aiming to attend either 26th or 31st Open day at WP this month, see if you can make it!

lol. followed sti before, i ended up spinning out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

I hope that will be the case! First time the car was understeering so much that the wheels were spinning and losing traction.
How do you usually approach the second corner after the first kink? More specifically, what speed do you usually enter? I think i may be taking the corner too fast...last time i remembered i was entering
almost near 100km/h

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It depends on your setup. With semi slicks and a light car, you can do 100km/h easy by cutting the apex. If you have street tyres and a heavy car, then you might find that your car understeers just because the tyres don't have enough grip to change the direction of momentum. There are ways to get around it though even with street tyres by sacrificing speed at the first kink so that you line up the car to take the 2nd corner in the straightest line possible (and clip the apex).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Very impressive :) I'll aim to get into 1.16s first and then work from there!
Btw, now that I have the LSD installed, im assuming VSA will work in conjuction with no conflicts? Do you guys usually turn VSA off at track or leave it on?
Any advantages/disadvantages to leaving it on?

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I turn it off because it lets me control under/oversteer using the throttle. With VSA on, it sometimes tries to brake the inner wheel when I least expect it to reduce understeer, causing the car to slightly cut in quicker. If you practice with VSA on and can anticipate when it will kick in, then nothing wrong with leaving it on.

Was wondering if anyone knows whether the eibach camber bolts are similar to the ingalls one?

Im going to track soon so Im looking into adjusting my wheel alignments, where would I be able to source some camber bolts?

And is it necessary to get hubrings? I was told that if you run aftermarket rims, it doesnt sit flush with your hub and puts alot of stress on the nuts. By any chance does anyone know our hub bore size OD and ID of the rims? (CE28N).

Lukits01, if you see this i hope you can help, trying to pm you but your inbox is full!

thanks

73mm > 64mm hub rings
should have asked the tyre shop to give them to you for free when you got the semis fitted

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moo moo nel

73mm > 64mm hub rings
should have asked the tyre shop to give them to you for free when you got the semis fitted

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ahh ok thanks mate, appreciate your help. So these should fit? - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hub-Centric-R...ts_Accessories
Do most tyre shops sell these and how much do they usually cost?

check PM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moo moo nel

check PM

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Your inbox is full so couldnt reply, but thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated! = )

hub rings are nice things to have in the long run.
running without them can cause extra stress on hub bearings and wheel studs
I found they got rid of some vibrations I was having under hard braking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lukits01

hub rings are nice things to have in the long run.
running without them can cause extra stress on hub bearings and wheel studs
I found they got rid of some vibrations I was having under hard braking.

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I just ordered some kics metal hub rings :)
btw I wanted to ask you about the camber bolts, Would you know if there is any difference between the ingalls ones and eibach?
And where is the best place to order them? I'm looking to set up my wheel alignments...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyh888

I just ordered some kics metal hub rings :)
btw I wanted to ask you about the camber bolts, Would you know if there is any difference between the ingalls ones and eibach?
And where is the best place to order them? I'm looking to set up my wheel alignments...

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no idea between the brands, don't think it matters as long as its the 16mm version for honda mcpherson struts.
I just got mine from whiteline, $70 I think

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lukits01

no idea between the brands, don't think it matters as long as its the 16mm version for honda mcpherson struts.
I just got mine from whiteline, $70 I think

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I noticed on your thread you used ingalls camber bolts, couldnt find them on whiteline but i found this instead http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_...=KCA416&page=1
Is that the one you are talking about?? Seems to only allow adjustment of up to + - 1.75 degrees camber, any possibility of running a more aggressive alignment?

ohh nah, those ingalls didn't fit, they were 14mm.
think the whiteline link is the one I have.
you'll be lucky to get 1.75 with bolts alone, mate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lukits01

ohh nah, those ingalls didn't fit, they were 14mm.
think the whiteline link is the one I have.
you'll be lucky to get 1.75 with bolts alone, mate.

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Oh ok, how did you end up getting your desired alignment? Do your coilovers allow for camber adjustment?

I only managed to get max 1.2degrees with camber bolts after a wheel alignment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cjcha4

I only managed to get max 1.2degrees with camber bolts after a wheel alignment.

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Oh ok, at least its better than having nothing. Which camber bolts were you using? Is there any camber kit available for FN2R? Need more adjustability...
Im hoping to achieve -2 degrees camber...