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hi guys :) got a pretty vague question for use :)
i have a b18cr (96 spec)
so far i have
hondata s200
toda cam gears
toda flywheel
toda timing belt
fujitsubo catback
injen intake
exedy hd clutch
im looking at chasing 120-140FWKW
what else is required. im thinking:
Cams (inc, springs valves, ect)
Headers (Toda..?)
maybe port polish
thanks everyone.
def need cam set up and headder mate
hi flow cat
if this helps i had a b18cr with toda headers,standard sype r cat back, comtec ice box and tune with hodata s200 and made 120.7kwatw at toda dyno so i reakon youd be pushing real hard to get anything above 130 imo
As above. Camshafts (maybe a 'stage 2' or similar) + supporting valvetrain IE springs, retainers, OEM valves should be fine. 100cel high-flow cat for sure, and definitely a header. Port job with matched manifolds and a valve job would be good too. Maybe even a TB and IM ugprade, Skunk2 or similar.
Toda Spec C's, Toda header as you mentioned and 1mm oversize pistons (82mm) will be plenty enough to get you into 140kw+ mark.
Valve springs are a must.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Stronger rods and oil pump gear just might be a wise move.
For motorsport or a daily driver/weekend warrior? Cause I wouldnt get Toda Spec C's for a daily. I'd go for spec B
Yeah it would be easier to run Spec B's, won't even need the extra CR with the hi-comp pistons and obviously less money involved.
Head work done right and uprated valvetrain will see 130's quite easily on B18cR.
Budget 3-4k on top to get 130-140kw's from a B-series. That is being reasonable as well
thanks guys any more suggestions
Add nos.
no nos lol. i do however have 2 big bottles of it from dads slr 5000 :D.. but i wanna stay away from it, i dont wanna crack my engine to find that a cat with titanium nails has gone nuts in the bore :)
I had a dc2r with cheap ass straight through exhaust, short ram intake, cp pistons, eagle conrods and VAFC2 made 135kw atw
If u can spare extra change, electronic boost controller, intercooler kit, 450cc injectors, fuel pump (walbro 255l), and stick to 3 inch exhaust for maximum power, as alot of the Honda prefabbed exhaust are all 60mm for DC2/EK9, around 2.37inches, which might be a tad small for boost
What dyno?Quote:
Originally Posted by vtecing
cp pistons and eagle condrods wont gain you more power on their own, you need supporting headwork, you might gain a little more power if the compression ratio was bumped but wont give u a large jump in kw reading more so as the car will be more responsive
im not boosted :/
buy my narrow b series headers to help you get there ;)
I make 139fwkw with, toda header,b cams,valve springs, mugen intake and powerfc, plus a few other bits n pieces, tuned and dyned at toda
stock bottom end?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomsy
get some rocket motorsport m22x cams :)
Sure isQuote:
Originally Posted by MM89
Is that head ported as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomsy
is random question how would a Build B18CR with 140kw conpair to a standard K20a with 140kw?
At the moment i waring up the pro and con to do a K series swap over a do B series swap with a build B18CR as mosty track car but still with rego into small ED9 crx chassis
I more think a B series would be hell of alot easy swap and better car weight balance wise
What everyone else thoughts?
the k series weighs around the same as the b18cr so weight balance is not an issue.
why not go for a k24? its cheaper than the k20 and its quicker :)
K SERIES pros =, K20 has VCT which the B series lacks...basically just pulls the car so much quicker to redline is a simple way to put it.
K series has a great 6 SPEED gearbox which works and feels so much better than any B series box. Also has more torque everywhere which only B series could be similiar is the B20VTEC but still doesnt rev the way a k20 does
finally you will need to build at least a 160kw B18C to equal a 140kw K20A. Parts are becoming more common accessible and slowly cheaper
K series cons = $$$$ expensive parts just keep adding up, ac/ps will need to be customised bonnet need to be cut, taking more time to install
Weight balance is negligible as the difference is not much between the two engines
B series pros = If your going to build a B series , go B20VTEC there is no replacement for displacement, easier to swap than k series can get all ef parts aircon, powersteering
parts are readily available and reasonably priced, straight foward conversion most of everything remains in same spot
B series cons= need to spend $$$ to get on par with a k series and might just end up costing more and making less power,
thanks guys for quick reply
yeah wouldn't mind a K24 but block height already a issue with bonnet clearance and want to legal with a K20a
the reason i said weight balance is not due to engine weight but moving the engine from passage's side of the car to driver's side of the car
Has anyone done conner weight different of before with B series and after with a K series ? Would love to know if it much weight move to one side
Thanks GSI_PSI made me wanting to do the K20a ITR again as it a the better motor long term with your pro's and con's
I do plan to put build K20 in after year or so to start hunting down quicker lap times
The P/s option has been on my mind with the K series as it likely not going to fit in the small ED9 engine bay even with a EF8 bonnet (most guys don't have it as far see if all none)
but i try fit P/s pump when the time comes
Pat
K-series, newer, makes more power and torque, requires less maintanence, will be alot cheaper in the long run
Pat,
I built my B16A and I love it, love the car, love the B-series and everything.
But I would not do it again. I could have spent just a little more to put a JDM K20A in (much more power) but I wanted my car to have the B-series OEM-ness that makes it somewhat of a classic. If this doesn't bother you, just go K-series. Better value for money, less issues etc etc. Far better option. Otherwise Honda would have stuck with the B, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidvtec
Standard head
what exauhst and headers? thats a great power figure!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomsy
Toda headers and spoon n1, to be honest alot of it comes down to selecting the correct parts and having them fitted correctly then tuned correctly, any monkey can fit cams and an exhaust, pros take the time to dial cams and align and port match the exhaust
for sure, thats why im going to be doing a 60 hour round trip to sydney to get it done by toda.
i'd be happy with anything over 130kw
with toda b's i/h/e s300
what were the other few bits and pieces jomsy....?? xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Jomsy
K series swap is expensive, not the motor. but the conversion parts, and it won't be stock because you will need custom headers/cat/zorst/intake/ecu etc!
You need to spend ALOT of $ to get a Built B series on the same level as the K.
K series aint expensive. Check my for sale thread, one for going hella cheap $8500 everything needed minus installation.
Built B series will set you back a good 6-10k, and yet make less power then a stock K20 type R with bolt ons/tuned.
dude when it comes to doing conversions I wouldnt bother spending the time or money on a 21yr old car.....serious over capitalisation, better off putting that money and effort into an already decent car dc2r or dc5r.....ek9 etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by pat88c
very good point i come up with that conclusion after more research after this first post and go buy a EP3R in 12months time then modifying a ED9 crx to find a over size k20a engine and gearbox and have i will have great daily unmodified EP3R with only few bugs conpair
A B18c is easy swap into a ED9 crx amount work wise but dollars not really
I think just rebuild my d16a8 with cams, high comp pistons, Hondata ECU and few other thing to get sweet low power street/track car which all i really want in the end
turbo it pat
What numbers are people pulling with AUDM K20's with I/H/E? Or even K24?
From what I could find, most were around the 130-140kw mark. 150kw for cam or JDM motors?
That's not a far cry from a healthy B18CR pulling 120kw~.
The torque and power delivery of a K20 is definitely superior and their gearboxes are killer. You get what you pay for, the extra spent on a K series is totally worth it if that's your power goal. Why do a motor swap then build it up. Unless it's a wicked crate motor :O
But I agree with dougie, the B series does have it's charm. :)
From what i've seen, both k20's and k24's with boltons make 140-150kwQuote:
Originally Posted by nigs
On a hub dyno?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
No all on roller dyno's
just out of curiosity, which K24 are we talking about? the ADM K24A3? and with tune or not?
Yes k24a3. 4-1 headers, 3inch system, VTC upgrade, RBC with 70mm t/b, SRI with filter and a good tune. I've done a few before. Its a proven combo
I want a K :(
Facking gearboxes are so pro.
While dyno numbers from a B to K may not be much. In real world terms, the K is so much quicker.
^ so true , really feels good to have short ratioed 6 gears ...... .but now when i jump in my integra after driving the k20 i almost always nearly put it into reverse before i remember its b series :(...lol
personally b series is alot more fun then k around the track and sounds like a honda engine...with the write combo and gear set u can outrun the ks with bolts on
I just think the B-series is a much nicer looking and sounding engine. I don't need 150kw/atw to have fun...
but it helps ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
just remember that, a fully modified B-series (I'm talking about "the lot") might be as quick as a stock K-series (except bolt ons and ECU) but u have to wonder about the reliability of a worked B-series compared to the stock K-series.. coming from exp. I spent about the same amount of oney on a B20 build. pushing 150kws atw, but if i could do it all over again i would hve spent it on a K-series. newer technology less worked and producing the same amount or less but running quicker times... Plus you get decent fuel economy lol.
just my 2 cents
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoy-boi
well said
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoy-boi
Yeah me too TBH
High output B's can be very reliable, it just depends who builds them.
Many places B/S about their engines outputs & reliability & most offer no warranty.
Same can be said for K series builds too though.
I can think of one shop in particular that constantly pumps out low output, unreliable B's & K's.
Yet they're quite popular & busy.
b series roar!! FTW!
well said adrian. im glad i chose you first time, im not sure there would be many tuners in the world that would happily take a phone call off a customer at least once a week pestering you about honda's :P
...like who?Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
pm him jroid
look into e85 conversion, people in America are running 150kw at the wheels on b series with supporting mods.
it allows some serious compression, just a idea anyway, if power figures are what you want
all about money in the end lol~
you suck at driving a B series.
My B18CR has made about 128fwkW on two diff dynos in two diff states.
US Prestige headers, short ram intake, no ps or AC, 2.5" mandrel bent, Microtech.
Look forward to driving a k-swap EG one day (have owned 6 converted EG's!) but even with this power and easy high 13 sec QMile the wheelspin is not ridiculous, even in the wet. First is not the gear to stomp at 5000rpm but the rest of the gears have great throttle response but never need a lot of peddling! I'm guessing, and have seen youtube vids that support this, the K-swap civics are a little less driveable in this respect.
Like any set up, though, the more power, the more driver skill and experience needed!!!
Is this true? My old H22 Civic felt like a big motor strapped to a stiff skatebaord. Is a K20 like this? Or does it feel close to stock, like a B series? Guessing it's more like the H22...?
Just another angle - depending on what you're going to use the car for! Driveability is the reason my car cleans up three quarters of the high powered street cars on hillclimbs and the B18CR has this in spades!!!
Well my experiences with jdm 160kw k20 eg2 , first gear on the street is pretty useless if you use WOT , but feathering the accellerator and planting when traction is gained works well, im running on street legal semis (azenis) seems to grip pretty well, every other gear has great traction. Overall its not as bad as i thought it was going to be, but tyres plays a big role as i swapped my integras wheels on the car to try it out, lol it was a burnout machine, 1st,2nd,3rd frying up.
yeah to much power for me~Quote:
Originally Posted by nigs
god damn street racers
Over the year playing around with different Honda engines, the K-series will have to be the funniest and easiest to drive for both daily and track. The B-series just lack the torque, H22a is a little heavy in the front end and has crap transmission.Quote:
Originally Posted by iijjee
Once you drive a K-series you'll never look back at the B-series. If you come down to the Honda Nats, ill let you drive my road car with a basic K24 swap
And who said K-series has no vtec roar? I'll let u_mad response to this
Would love to drve a kswap... One day - when the kids grow up!!!!
I didn't think a 2.4 in an EG or EK (which only ever had a 1.6L max cap) would be legal, even with engineering??? Must be though!
Agreed with this one .Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
11.82 sec @ 113mph here ( EG hatch + Stock k24a3 with 50 degree vtc , 6 speed dc5r gearbox with bolt on mods , Kpro , Slicks )
what advantages does the dc5r GB have over the standard K24a3 6 speed manual, besides the lsd? still learning my k-series lolQuote:
Originally Posted by EG5
shorter gears 2-6, more acceleration.Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
does audm dc5r gbox have lsd? i dont think they do.
4.7fd LSD shorter ratio gearbox. Yes it does have LSD, only the fn2r early model audm didn't come LSD and was 6-speed. Accord euro is 5-speed
accord euro is 6 speed
i believe the cl7 came in 5 speed, but cl9 are all 6 speed or 5 speed auto, correct if im wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
We need a K-series vs B-series discussion thread
More people needs to be educated!
educate me! start a thread naooo!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
I think we need some reliable info on pros/cons/vs for the K, B, F and H series motors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
Surely we can steal some off another forum and compile it here lol
^
Better yet, add it to the OzHonda Wiki for future reference!
haha they sure do roar alright!Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
after going k i laugh at the idea of doing up a b lmao, so much more power especially mid range
raced a wrx tonight with 180kw at all four wheels. was side by side with it all the way up to 200 then he slowly crept away after my friend didnt get 5th in too well. plus i had a heavy passenger. would never have stood a chance with the old b18c7
k all the way, fuk b series lol
(done on private road)
Since when were Hondas all about power at the wheels and straight line speed?
B series for rawness, sound, revs and charisma. But I'm obviously one of those uneducated types :)
You almost always get a deeper, more throaty sound from a larger displacement engine.. Therefore F, H and K are for sound.. B and D are more tinny.Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys.l
Revs, they're all about the same after you've poured some money into the valve train.
Charisma? Nothing says 'blow me' like a super quick Honda.. Regardless of the engine letter =P
Hmmm, personally I think the smaller/older the engine the more it says 'blow me' haha. Not that any of us do any street racing...
Too many factors to say which is the faster, better yet, a time slip will show ur skills and how fast it is :)Quote:
Originally Posted by u mad?