New rims, your experience with these brands - wheel bore/spigot size?

Hey guys, I am currently looking at getting a new set of rims 15x7+25 (4x100) and wrapping them in 205/50/15 tyres. I have an EK hatch and I just wanted to know if these rims should fit without much poke, will they sit flush with the guard/slightly in? Does anyone also know what wheel bore size will fit up perfectly to the spigot on the wheel hub (I think it's 57 - can anyone clarify?) as I would like my purchase to be hubcentric.

Has anyone used brands such as TRMotorsports, 949 or XXR? My EK is my DD, but I want to take it to the track next year just for some fun and really get a good understanding of how she handles.

Cheers.

15x7 et 25 wrapped in 205/50s will require guard rolling if you don't want to scrub (if you are low of course) i have that setup on mine at the moment and so far only rolled the rear guards because the front seem ok for now. So to answer your question, it will poke out abit but not (depending on camber/natural camber etc etc.)

I'm rolling on natural camber at the moment and all of them sit flush!

And about the brands dunno much about them except for XXR which are ok i guess?

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Originally Posted by mattsrea

15x7 et 25 wrapped in 205/50s will require guard rolling if you don't want to scrub (if you are low of course) i have that setup on mine at the moment and so far only rolled the rear guards because the front seem ok for now. So to answer your question, it will poke out abit but not (depending on camber/natural camber etc etc.)

I'm rolling on natural camber at the moment and all of them sit flush!

And about the brands dunno much about them except for XXR which are ok i guess?

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Cheers for the feedback mattsrea and Merry Christmas by the way. I'm not lowered at the moment, but plan on being in the future. What gap size do you have between your tyres and fender? approx 2 fingers? Do you know much about rims and whether they should be hubcentric? I'm pretty sure my EK's hub centre/spigot size is 56.1 where as one of the rims I'm looking at has a wheel bore size of 57.1. This means for them to be hubcentric I would need a 0.5mm spigot ring as 0.5mm at the top of the spigot (hub centre) + 0.5mm at the bottom of the spigot (hub centre) equals the 1mm difference - hopefully that makes sense. However, I don't believe they make 0.5mm spigot rings and am worried that it will put too much strain on the lugs. I don't want to have the chance of them buckling or even snapping especially when I take it to the track next year.

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Originally Posted by T-Bone

Cheers for the feedback mattsrea and Merry Christmas by the way. I'm not lowered at the moment, but plan on being in the future. What gap size do you have between your tyres and fender? approx 2 fingers? Do you know much about rims and whether they should be hubcentric? I'm pretty sure my EK's hub centre/spigot size is 56.1 where as one of the rims I'm looking at has a wheel bore size of 57.1. This means for them to be hubcentric I would need a 0.5mm spigot ring as 0.5mm at the top of the spigot (hub centre) + 0.5mm at the bottom of the spigot (hub centre) equals the 1mm difference - hopefully that makes sense. However, I don't believe they make 0.5mm spigot rings and am worried that it will put too much strain on the lugs. I don't want to have the chance of them buckling or even snapping especially when I take it to the track next year.

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No worries bud merry christmas to you too. Well talking gap size i am 1 finger gap on the rears and none at the front. Snce the rears are rolled no scrub occurs where as the front only scrubs when i do hard corners so if you take it to tracks it should prob go with a minor guard roll or if you can get your hands on some stiff coilovers.

And honestly i don't know much about the hubcentric and all perhaps somebody else couold shed some light on this.

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Originally Posted by T-Bone

Cheers for the feedback mattsrea and Merry Christmas by the way. I'm not lowered at the moment, but plan on being in the future. What gap size do you have between your tyres and fender? approx 2 fingers? Do you know much about rims and whether they should be hubcentric? I'm pretty sure my EK's hub centre/spigot size is 56.1 where as one of the rims I'm looking at has a wheel bore size of 57.1. This means for them to be hubcentric I would need a 0.5mm spigot ring as 0.5mm at the top of the spigot (hub centre) + 0.5mm at the bottom of the spigot (hub centre) equals the 1mm difference - hopefully that makes sense. However, I don't believe they make 0.5mm spigot rings and am worried that it will put too much strain on the lugs. I don't want to have the chance of them buckling or even snapping especially when I take it to the track next year.

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If it's a 1mm gap I wouldn't be worried about hubcentric rings, chances are there's probably a bit of corrosion on the hub and it will fit snug or there is some variation with the manufacturing/paint etc. It's hard to say until you've mounted it.

I track my car and the rims don't sit flush with the hub, I haven't had any issues with studs and haven't yet heard of any horror stories. Besides if you are serious about tracking you would want to invest into extended studs anyway :)

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Originally Posted by mattsrea

No worries bud merry christmas to you too. Well talking gap size i am 1 finger gap on the rears and none at the front. Snce the rears are rolled no scrub occurs where as the front only scrubs when i do hard corners so if you take it to tracks it should prob go with a minor guard roll or if you can get your hands on some stiff coilovers.

And honestly i don't know much about the hubcentric and all perhaps somebody else couold shed some light on this.

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Cheers mate, thanks again for your input :)

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Originally Posted by fillit

If it's a 1mm gap I wouldn't be worried about hubcentric rings, chances are there's probably a bit of corrosion on the hub and it will fit snug or there is some variation with the manufacturing/paint etc. It's hard to say until you've mounted it.

I track my car and the rims don't sit flush with the hub, I haven't had any issues with studs and haven't yet heard of any horror stories. Besides if you are serious about tracking you would want to invest into extended studs anyway :)

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That's good to hear, thanks for the info fillit. I always thought extended studs were just so you could fit spacers (which are illegal in NSW). But after doing a quick search they seem to be stronger then OEM studs? I also read that ARP make quite good extended studs - are they the brand you use or would recommend?

Would you say that my OEM studs should be fine to handle any 'extra' strain/stress due to the wheels not being hubcentric as my car is pretty much stock performance wise and I won't be taking it to the track often. I am just very keen to go once next year - heard it's a really good experience and you get to understand how your car handles alot more.

Thanks again for your help mate :)

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Originally Posted by T-Bone

Cheers mate, thanks again for your input :)



That's good to hear, thanks for the info fillit. I always thought extended studs were just so you could fit spacers (which are illegal in NSW). But after doing a quick search they seem to be stronger then OEM studs? I also read that ARP make quite good extended studs - are they the brand you use or would recommend?

Would you say that my OEM studs should be fine to handle any 'extra' strain/stress due to the wheels not being hubcentric as my car is pretty much stock performance wise and I won't be taking it to the track often. I am just very keen to go once next year - heard it's a really good experience and you get to understand how your car handles alot more.

Thanks again for your help mate :)

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OEM studs would be fine for your DD and occasional track day, however if you get addicted and continually participate than extended studs are probably the go.

Yep, I was going to direct you to MRP (Manon Racing Products) lots of the toyota boys use them, it seems they stock ARP studs and bolts. They are based in NZ, however you will need to have them imported regardless of where you choose to purchase them. My friend was quoted a set of extended studs for 80NZD + shipping, so this option may work out cheaper.

Here is their website if you want to shoot them an email. --> http://www.mrpltd.co.nz/

You can install yourself if you have a press, however I would say get it done at a workshop shouldn't be much more than $160 - $200 (my mate had his done for $160) and it's a fairly straight forward job.

Keep in mind you will need to use open ended lug nuts, so if you are purchasing a new set put it into consideration otherwise you may be wasting your money.

The good thing about having extended studs too is that you can run hubcentric slip on spacers, just make sure you find one which sits flush with the bore, not saying it's legal, but it's hell of a lot safer than having them on the OEM studs.

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Originally Posted by fillit

OEM studs would be fine for your DD and occasional track day, however if you get addicted and continually participate than extended studs are probably the go.

Yep, I was going to direct you to MRP (Manon Racing Products) lots of the toyota boys use them, it seems they stock ARP studs and bolts. They are based in NZ, however you will need to have them imported regardless of where you choose to purchase them. My friend was quoted a set of extended studs for 80NZD + shipping, so this option may work out cheaper.

Here is their website if you want to shoot them an email. --> http://www.mrpltd.co.nz/

You can install yourself if you have a press, however I would say get it done at a workshop shouldn't be much more than $160 - $200 (my mate had his done for $160) and it's a fairly straight forward job.

Keep in mind you will need to use open ended lug nuts, so if you are purchasing a new set put it into consideration otherwise you may be wasting your money.

The good thing about having extended studs too is that you can run hubcentric slip on spacers, just make sure you find one which sits flush with the bore, not saying it's legal, but it's hell of a lot safer than having them on the OEM studs.

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Thanks so much mate for all the info! Very informative, I may have to check out the website soon, very interested in this idea, particularly since they are worthwhile. +1 for you man, thanks again fillit. Take care :)

id go 949 racing 6uls if you can get the old style! but yes those should fit with very few dramas

Since you only want 15x7,try and get some genuine wheels and avoid those taiwan xxr junk and 6ul etc.

15x7 used jdm wheels wont cost a fortune so do a bit of hunting and get genuine quality





http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/521...infeldshir.jpg

Personally, I'd go for a new set of "recognized brand" (not necessarily brand-name) wheels over a set of used wheels with an unknown history.

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Originally Posted by .Dave

id go 949 racing 6uls if you can get the old style! but yes those should fit with very few dramas

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What do you mean by the 'old style' Dave? I've read that gen I, II and III all look the same yet are stronger each generation. Gen I was also gravity cast where as gen II and III are low pressure cast - please correct me if I'm wrong. So wouldn't it be better to go for the gen III's if I were to get them?

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Originally Posted by EKVTIR-T

Since you only want 15x7,try and get some genuine wheels and avoid those taiwan xxr junk and 6ul etc.

15x7 used jdm wheels wont cost a fortune so do a bit of hunting and get genuine quality

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/521...infeldshir.jpg

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Cheers for the input EKVTIR, I would have to agree with Apu though, in terms of buying a new set compared to a used set with unknown history. There are also many people who use TRM C1 wheels (they're the ones I'm leaning towards at the moment) especially in the US for autocross. People seem to rave about them and I have not read any horror stories yet.

The TRM C1 wheels also come with a 2 year warranty. I don't think using brands like TRM, 949 or XXR should be a big deal since it's on my DD and I don't plan on tracking her much at all. By the way nice Seinfeld reference ;)

yeah but used or not... does it matter
if the wheel is round, has no leaks, cracks or fat chunks missing it is no less a wheel than a new one....

i think the old style had more of a dish kinda thing, looked way fatter, the mirage at the jdmyard end of year meet for example had these older style

i might be wrong

I guess it comes down to your personal standards

some people dont care as long as the part is functional and achieves the goal but for me I wont ever use a made in china/taiwan wheels or suspension

anything in the driveline/structure/suspension


and its not trying to be snobby or brandwhore,Im talking about material quality and strength/safety standards too

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Originally Posted by .Dave

id go 949 racing 6uls if you can get the old style! but yes those should fit with very few dramas

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why rep a brand when its been proven to crack/fail?, with hard evidence, so dont know why ppl continue to buy them for track purpose, even dynall has used them an failed on them, look on his build thread, but than again rotas are in the same situation lol, so ppl will do anything to save a buck as long as it does the job "fine", untill it fails than they learn the lesson hahha

http://i.imgur.com/LCQLr.jpg

+1 to EKVTIR-T, u can get a good set of 2nd hand JDM rims, forged or high quality cast rim that is to JWL or surpasses JWL

IN fact in 15x7 that is the more common size for 4x100 pcd so u can find them easier in japan, if it was me, id just settle for a good set of rays te37 or ce28n

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Originally Posted by EKVTIR-T

I guess it comes down to your personal standards

some people dont care as long as the part is functional and achieves the goal but for me I wont ever use a made in china/taiwan wheels or suspension

anything in the driveline/structure/suspension


and its not trying to be snobby or brandwhore,Im talking about material quality and strength/safety standards too

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Fair call. After seeing the image mugen posted below it has got me second guessing my approach even though they aren't TRM's.

The only reason why I wasn't looking at forged rims like rays or ssr is due to their steep pricing. But as mugen said, best to look at sets in japan so that is what I'll do.

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Originally Posted by mugen_ctr

why rep a brand when its been proven to crack/fail?, with hard evidence, so dont know why ppl continue to buy them for track purpose, even dynall has used them an failed on them, look on his build thread, but than again rotas are in the same situation lol, so ppl will do anything to save a buck as long as it does the job "fine", untill it fails than they learn the lesson hahha

http://i.imgur.com/LCQLr.jpg

+1 to EKVTIR-T, u can get a good set of 2nd hand JDM rims, forged or high quality cast rim that is to JWL or surpasses JWL

IN fact in 15x7 that is the more common size for 4x100 pcd so u can find them easier in japan, if it was me, id just settle for a good set of rays te37 or ce28n

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Thanks for the insight mugen. Still not sure about the te37's or ce28n's. Don't get me wrong, I do love them, but they are still very expensive over in japan especially to then ship here.

I have however found a very good deal on a set of forged ssr's so I'm waiting for the person to contact me back after leaving a message. Hopefully it goes well :)

Google cracked/broken SSR or Volk or other brand. Shit happens.

That said, I've put my car into a kerb and the wheel survived so I (in my inexperience) reused it, which I shouldn't have...like a helmet - fall or crash in one, chuck it out.

So the wheel survived, great that it was strong. Unfortunately it also transferred all that force into the suspension components. Repair cost was $5K...and that was in 1994 money.

So, I'd rather have the wheel fracture and absorb a fair chunk of the force. That said, I agree there are poorly made wheels out there...look at the issues Holden had.

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Originally Posted by Apu

Google cracked/broken SSR or Volk or other brand. Shit happens.

That said, I've put my car into a kerb and the wheel survived so I (in my inexperience) reused it, which I shouldn't have...like a helmet - fall or crash in one, chuck it out.

So the wheel survived, great that it was strong. Unfortunately it also transferred all that force into the suspension components. Repair cost was $5K...and that was in 1994 money.

So, I'd rather have the wheel fracture and absorb a fair chunk of the force. That said, I agree there are poorly made wheels out there...look at the issues Holden had.

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That rim above would have caused a fair bit of damage even though it broke, essentially most of the suspension components and the caliper/disk definitely rode on the inner rim. Costly Costly..

SSRs are prone to hairline cracks as they are "semi" forged, which means they are essentially cast... having a thicker tyre profile would absorb more impact than a rim breaking

The majority of the broken JDM or other recognised brands are usually associated with their cast/semi forged/etc range. While their forged range usually from fatigue [used 5th hand] or damage from horrific situations. A lot of the replicas break from just daily not even going near the track.

SSR Type-C for example isn't forged... As fillit said they're semi-forged so not forged and they're a 2pc design too. A fair few of them have cracked but after some heavy usage or from stupidity.

I did run replica [Rota Slipstream cause I didn't want to have my Regas damaged/stolen], it did the job back then cause 2nd hand genuine TE37s cost almost 1/5th of my car's value =| But now with good load of 2nd hand buys floating around, there is no reason not to spend a little extra on some used but good condition forged rims [whatever the brand maybe] & don't skimp on tyres...

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Originally Posted by fillit

That rim above would have caused a fair bit of damage even though it broke, essentially most of the suspension components and the caliper/disk definitely rode on the inner rim. Costly Costly..

SSRs are prone to hairline cracks as they are "semi" forged, which means they are essentially cast... having a thicker tyre profile would absorb more impact than a rim breaking

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I agree, damage would have occurred either way but it might not have been quite as extensive. I'm not talking about a wheel breaking into pieces like the pic of the one above - that's like a high tensile steel breaking. And loose metal...yikes! I'm referring to a fracture, or better yet, the wheel buckling.

Whilst I agree that forged wheels are better, they are prohibitively expensive and like I said earlier, buying used...especially if they've been repainted. Not something I am personally comfortable with. That said, I know a number of people have done so and have had no problems. By the same token, a number of people have also run Rotas with no problems, haha!

I've used a range of wheels - your brand names and some lesser known brands. I equate the spend on wheels relative to the cost of the car. You can get a range of reasonably good wheels for $1000 a set (Buddy Club for example). Personally, and like DreadAngel, whilst I have spent thousands on new wheels for new cars, I couldn't justify spending $4K on forged wheels for my $11K DC2R. But...we all have different perspectives right?

As for wheels breaking on daily drivers...I've had that happen as well. A 45" profile tyre on a 16" wheel on a car with a bit of camber, smacked into a cut in the road which the council hadn't filled. That spelt the end of a Euro branded wheel.

I've been driving for 25+ years and owned cars for 23 years or so. I don't dispute the quality of the branded wheels but I find it hard to justify the expense...it's like gold plated car audio systems. I don't even have an amp in my car nowadays, haha!

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Originally Posted by Apu

I agree, damage would have occurred either way but it might not have been quite as extensive. I'm not talking about a wheel breaking into pieces like the pic of the one above - that's like a high tensile steel breaking. And loose metal...yikes! I'm referring to a fracture, or better yet, the wheel buckling.

Whilst I agree that forged wheels are better, they are prohibitively expensive and like I said earlier, buying used...especially if they've been repainted. Not something I am personally comfortable with. That said, I know a number of people have done so and have had no problems. By the same token, a number of people have also run Rotas with no problems, haha!

I've used a range of wheels - your brand names and some lesser known brands. I equate the spend on wheels relative to the cost of the car. You can get a range of reasonably good wheels for $1000 a set (Buddy Club for example). Personally, and like DreadAngel, whilst I have spent thousands on new wheels for new cars, I couldn't justify spending $4K on forged wheels for my $11K DC2R. But...we all have different perspectives right?

As for wheels breaking on daily drivers...I've had that happen as well. A 45" profile tyre on a 16" wheel on a car with a bit of camber, smacked into a cut in the road which the council hadn't filled. That spelt the end of a Euro branded wheel.

I've been driving for 25+ years and owned cars for 23 years or so. I don't dispute the quality of the branded wheels but I find it hard to justify the expense...it's like gold plated car audio systems. I don't even have an amp in my car nowadays, haha!

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Forged rims can be found cheap, if you run 5x114.3 GTR rims are the go. If you are patient enough, gems do show up on yahoo auctions, however shipping rapes your wallet.

All rims fail eventually, I've see an Enkei RPF1 with its lip missing after a track day and I've cracked a set of Enkei RP01s too, I guess I just have no luck with Enkeis.

Painting is fine, powder coating I feel uneasy about.

JDM wheels.

JDM is always best.

I was told by a shop that Yokohama/Advan told him not to bother with hub centric rings for our style of cars (asian - where the studs are always on the hub) as you putting the wheel on properly the lugs nuts + studs will align the wheel properly. Apparently did a study on it and found that with or without ring its no difference and so just a waste of time. European cars are a different story though.

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Originally Posted by ks_87

I was told by a shop that Yokohama/Advan told him not to bother with hub centric rings for our style of cars (asian - where the studs are always on the hub) as you putting the wheel on properly the lugs nuts + studs will align the wheel properly. Apparently did a study on it and found that with or without ring its no difference and so just a waste of time. European cars are a different story though.

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I've got them considering they're only an extra $20? I remember reading a few random things with people having random vibrations that stopped after having them added.

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Originally Posted by lolmclol

I've got them considering they're only an extra $20? I remember reading a few random things with people having random vibrations that stopped after having them added.

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That's mostly because they aren't using the right lug nuts and isn't sitting correctly on the stud. This makes the wheel slightly biased toward a particular direction causing it to be unbalanced.

I find hubcentric rings help position the wheels correctly, 100% of the time and is worthwhile if you can get them. If you can't just make sure you are mounting it straight.