It's official now
http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORD/
The Accord badge is given to the USDM large accord in Japan.
looks like the 2 Accord strategy is over.
Euro's dead.... Long live the euro.:honda:
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It's official now
http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORD/
The Accord badge is given to the USDM large accord in Japan.
looks like the 2 Accord strategy is over.
Euro's dead.... Long live the euro.:honda:
RIP Honda.
RIP Honda.
RIP Honda.
oh dear. i cant see this ending well for honda. what are honda japan going to make now? the nsx and legend only?
Oh no :(.
GG Honda. They had a nice run, lasted longer than most who try to make cars. I guess they still have their bikes and other machinery to work with even if they drop cars.
sad times indeed =/
The next NSX is made in the USAQuote:
Originally Posted by sensei_
so only the legend will be made in japan then. as most of the production is in thailand, and some china.Quote:
Originally Posted by lolmclol
Will this mean Euro prices will drop or rise?
Tempted to snap one up in the future haha
Prob won't make much difference to used prices if that's what you're talking about.
there might be a slight increase for people who are desperate to buy one. just like how the E38 (BMW 7 series) increased in price when the E65 was introduced.
Prices would remain static, i.e. market demand. As it's not a sports car or limited edition etc, natural depreciation will take place, although may be slower as there isn't a subsequent model so the car will still look fresh e.g. S15.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasemas
It's probably a good move from Honda, when I was looking into buying mine, new & second hand, the Euro is priced soo competitively compared with the Accord, and they seem to hold their value better.
With that being said, if you take the Euro out of the equation, people would either buy the 4 banger if it's A to B or the V6 for oomph.
I'd imagine they were selling maybe 5 Euros to 1 Accord in the days.
The only thing is, why would people even consider a Honda anymore? People went for the Euro cos of it's looks and sportiness. Accord is none of that. People would just go for a VF or Mazda 6 instead. Of the would be Euro sales, I suspect, at best, only 20% would end up opting for the Accord, the rest would look elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by fillit
I never recalled the Euro being a top seller, I think commodore, mazda 6 and camry always sold in higher volumes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosMaster
Basic business decision is cost of development + production of euro is not as profitable as the accord. Therefore even if people forgo buying a Honda due to the Euro being taken off the market, there will still be an increase in the accord sales hence overall it's more profitable for the business as a whole. Also a lot of the volume of Mazda/Holden and Toyota sales are fleet cars, it's rare to ever have a Euro fleet car, with the FBT being changed, novated leasing is also less attractive hence natural decline in sales anyway.
On a personal note, I think the accord V6 was okay and I had put it into serious consideration. What put me off was Thailand build and gearbox.
Euro was a volume seller for Honda, at one point it was something like more than 25% of Honda's total sales volumeQuote:
Originally Posted by fillit
Taking that away, while the wide body accord is more profitable, overhead costs would be an issue should the lower sales volume is not compensated with some more revenue (which would be the reason for the price hike on the wide-body accord)
The current take up rate of the new wide body accord is pretty dismal, which Honda would make more per car, I doubt it would compensate for the loss in volume.Quote:
Basic business decision is cost of development + production of euro is not as profitable as the accord. Therefore even if people forgo buying a Honda due to the Euro being taken off the market, there will still be an increase in the accord sales hence overall it's more profitable for the business as a whole.
The new CRV/Civic had got a lukewarm reception as well, Honda's gonna be praying the new Honda Jazz's got a better reception
Once again, volume means the overheads are more easily covered, which Honda do not have the luxury of.Quote:
Also a lot of the volume of Mazda/Holden and Toyota sales are fleet cars, it's rare to ever have a Euro fleet car, with the FBT being changed, novated leasing is also less attractive hence natural decline in sales anyway.
Not for almost $60000 Honda was asking for the carQuote:
On a personal note, I think the accord V6 was okay and I had put it into serious consideration. What put me off was Thailand build and gearbox.
It's not worth that much for a rehash of previous models with a slapped together gearbox.
We could only hope that the poms can bring more exiting Honda than the Japs or the Yanks
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...814-2rv7g.html
honda has become so gay it gives me the chits
I would've thought the one to drop would be the Legend, but that's not based on any statistics.
once you drop the flagship car, what else do you have in the line up to bring in the upper level clientele? yes, the legend isnt a real market shaker but at least its an attempt to entice some of the mid size luxury sedans buyers to honda.Quote:
Originally Posted by iRoik
looking around, i dont think there is much japanese presence in the luxury category. besides lexus and maybe infinity, there isnt much else.
Yeah agreed with the volume seller on Euro, my cousin worked for Honda finance and he advised they weren't looking to increase market share when I was after one (trying to get a good deal).Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredoops
While sales may be good here, I'm not sure on how they do overseas, I'm sure they would have speculated that on an overall view, this is a more profitable venture. I cannot imagine that they would cut a major source of revenue without calculating other means of returns.
I was looking into the second hand market for the V6 Accord, as mentioned $60k is a lot especially if you factor in depreciation, they don't hold their value well. I believe there was a time when the base model accord euro was being sold at about $29,xxx drive away. You would be silly to purchase it new unless your either balling or can claim the benefits of depreciation.
This news comfirm my decision to get vw, audi or lexus if possible for my next car. :)
depreciation for honda's have been pretty bad. personally i call it the japanese BMW when it comes to depreciation.Quote:
Originally Posted by fillit
CL9 was a good seller in Europe, but by the time CU2 comes out the accord sales in Europe diedQuote:
While sales may be good here, I'm not sure on how they do overseas, I'm sure they would have speculated that on an overall view, this is a more profitable venture. I cannot imagine that they would cut a major source of revenue without calculating other means of returns.
in the US, where the Euro was sold as Acura TSX, was cannibalizing sales off the Acura TL, which was made in US with higher profit margin.
Which is why theyre dropping TSX in the US.
take away europe and us, there is no business case for the euro from a honda head office point of view.
but for honda australia.... well they're up sh1ts creek
Ever had a Toyota or Mitsubishi or Nissan (other than the sports cars). They are terribad, Honda's actually hold their value relatively well.Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei_
bear in mind, honda's usually have a slight premium for new cars. they are always more expensive than their competition, and not just in australia. ive noticed that in other markets, the brand honda is more of a "prestige" thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by fillit
Not when you compare the price of of say a toyota camry to an accord 4 cyl or a toyota corolla to a civic, they are just as expensive. I remember the days when I was looking for a new car and toyota was wanting 22k or so for a base model corolla with no power windows on the rear, this was in 2009!. FFS my old 20 year old EG had power windows and power sunroof LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei_
The attractive feature about Toyota was the low comparison rate, it's pretty good if you have funds ready to make a significant deposit say 30% +, gives you a bit of financial freedom whilst enjoying a new car.
Because of the premium for the new cars, the drop in depreciation is higher in it's first 1 - 2 years, but then it becomes relatively stagnant, P plater tax also helps, not that it necessarily applies to the cars we are discussing about at the moment.
its been awhile since ive looked at new cars so my information is more than likely out of date. these days, i let someone else take the hit on depreciation.Quote:
Originally Posted by fillit
I'm guessing the new Civic Type-R will be made in England?
I believe we WILL be getting a new Euro next year.
The Acura TLX will be replacing the Acura TL and TSX/Euro,as they are now merging into one model,and this will be our new Euro,as well as the next Honda Spirior for the massive Chineese market.
It will probably be made for other world markets in the USA.
Does anyone have the current Honda sales figures? Wondering how they're doing now. I recall about a year ago, due to thai flooding and that, Euro was pretty much their only seller with around 3k sales per month, where as Civic and CRV were sitting on 50. Without the Euro back then, Honda would have gone bust already.
If the regular Accord was better value, it wouldn't be a problem. The Euro was a segment leader, and won a few awards because of that. People were attracted to them because it was a great car. The Accord is like a premium Camry, but when paying 60k, you would think people would consider a Benz or Audi over it. And with the new VF out, it pales even further in comparison. Looking back in 2012, I think Honda only managed 30 000 sales, 90% of which were Euros. They reckon they're gonna hit 60 000 sales by 2015, but if they're going to drop the Euro, then at least 20 000 of those potential sales will be lost. Note I said 20 000 because I'm assuming that remaining 10 000 would look at the normal Accord which I doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by fillit
The good news, well, at least there will be more customers for the VF meaning more Aussie jobs for longer.
I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by antony
China wont be replacing the Sprior cause they got the Crider, and Europe is about to be dropping the Accord altogether.
Crider cost half as much as the Sprior, and Sprior sales were dismal, in 2011 it sold 17,000 in China, 29% of Hondas sales target, that's 3 years after release. Honda wanted to sell 60k Spriors a year, they aren't even reaching 20
Would you keep a production line for 15000 cars with a lower profit margin (due to fully imported parts)? China dealers had been dropping something like 15% of RRP just to shift stock.
Look at the 2015 tlx test mule, the things huge, and it's based on the big accord, powered with a v6 it seems
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...os-future-cars
Don't want a v6
We want an i4 thats what makes a euro, a euro
As well as a lighter, nimble and rigid body
And dwb suspension ahaha
Yes, and will be Turboed...Quote:
Originally Posted by 3RotaRX
another reason why Accord will die in Australia:
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013...ars-only-38273
4 stars only!!! That is on par with Mahindra XUV500
lmao ancap safety ratings
who even considers that when buying a car :confused:
LOL, well you are right sir... but then again, if the car looks like a supercar and cost $100k but the ancap rating is only 1, would I buy it? hmmm :pQuote:
Originally Posted by lolmclol
Yeaaaah ... that's a bit crazy though, but I see your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
Judging by those photos, I'd be worried driving the kia I'd be thrown out the window ;-)
i like the taste of this .... saving them chum change for one of these should it be released in audm.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
Ever driver a Caterham?Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
0 Star that one lol.
Having said that... the bloodything is meant to be a family car.... in which case a 4 stair is an epic fail.
you'd be just as safe in a greatwall....
@FREDOOPS,Honda have said there WILL be another Spirior,the Crider is made and sold by Shanghai Honda,the Spirior is made and sold by Dongfeng Honda,2 diffirent companies.
The Crider was based on the Concept C ,which looks absorlutely hideous,NO Euro buyer will buy one of those.
I am well aware they are 2 joint ventures, I'm Chinese....Quote:
Originally Posted by antony
There will be another Sprior, no doubt... BUT
It will be the LHD, ACUR (讴歌)TLX : http://www.acura.com.cn/
The joint venture agreement was signed 33 days ago with the GAC gorup, the same people that makes the Crider.
Acura had been in China since 2006, but since they are fully imported, they attract a 100% tariff. with the joint venture, expect their prices to come right down.
Heres the news release, in Chinese
http://www.acura.com.cn/news/press/20130718.html
Browse through the site, they have, the FULL Acura lineup, except the TSX, no doubt because of the agreement with DongFeng.
Do you, honestly, believe, that Honda's gonna have another DongFeng Sprior (current one is a failure whichever way you look at it) to go head to head with the upcoming Acura TLX which cover the same market segment?
The Sprior in China cost almost as much as an A4/BMW320, bang in Acura territory.
They cant be that stupid surely, competing against themselves *again*? Besides, Who else are they going to make a "JDM" accord for? Japan's out, Europe is dropping the Accord altogether, Russia has ACURA, everywhere else has the big, seppo accord.
Hondas bosses in Japan and Australia have confirmed that there WILL be a next Euro,maybee it will be the Acura ILX if not the TLX ???
Honda Aus have little to no say on what cars they can bring in
They're puppertered by Jap
And if you look through a few posts earlier on the Jap website theres no Euro
Honda bosses had backfliped since then...Quote:
Originally Posted by antony
http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2013...F0ZVRpbWUlN2Mx
It would be weird for Honda to discontinue the Euro,as this platform still sold 132000 units globally in 2012,which is a nice bit of volume it WILL loose that to Mazda,Toyota,and Volkswagen mainly.
The TSX is still selling very well in USA,and last month the Euro was top selling car in Iceland.
It's not weird, finally a bit of economic sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by antony
It may sold 132k units last year, but last generation, it sold 100k + in Japan ALONE.
Now Europe, Honda never had a competitive Diesel engine (Vital for the EU market) and now the emissions standard had killed the 2.2L D-Tec, they've got no engine to power the Accord, not to mention the recession means cal sales are down overall, but D-segment was hit particularly hard. Accord sales in UK was 2500 per year in 2012, something like 1/20th of what it used to be.
In USA, you'd find the TSX sales growth is almost a mirror image of the TL sales decline.
Consolidating the lineup is the first step to getting Honda out of whatever this is.
They say Japan was the inventor of "Lean" Manufacturing, well I can tell you, the 1/2 half of 2000's Honda was anything BUT lean, it was so scattered and wasteful it's not funny.
Take one example, the CL9 Accord Euro.
Over it's life period, 5 odd years, the CL9 Accord had:
- EIGHT different ECU designs from THREE separate manufacturers (overall theres something like one dozen different ECU's between K20 and K24 petrol variants alone, plus 2 different Bosch Diesel ECU's)
- THREE different headunits and TWO different interior audio wiring setup
- USDM had a different ECU, different wiring setup than Europe/Japan/Australia (regardless of RHD or LHD)
- There were 2 variations of the K24 engine, and USDM had engine and exhaust changes that were made during facelift that was NOT carried to the rest of the world, so post facelift the part numbers DOUBLED, because they had to produce 2 different exhaust pipes of the exact same shape but 5mm difference in diameter, then there were Cam changes, piston throttle body, intake valve etc just for USA.
Remember, ALL CL9's come down from the SAME production line in Japan.
Utter Madness.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Fredoops again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredoops
Seriously what has happened to Honda?
All Honda fans seem to be devastated if the Euro disappears,check out Whirlpool forums where it is probably the most Fred popular model over there,and tsxclub.com owners are way more passionate about their cars than us over here in OZ.
Fredoops seems to be the only one in favour of this.
If you really hate your CL9 so much,as you always appear to do,you will sell it very easily,and buy a competitors product.
Wow that escalated quickly
He's stating facts
How is that hate against his own car
Im sure Freedops has put alot of money/time/maintenance into it
And for you to accuse him? - mate your argument is invalid
fred wants his CL9 to live forever
and then one day go to CL9 heaven when fred goes to human heaven with korean jesus (because fred is asian)
i think the writing has been on the wall for honda for quite some time. as much as we are all honda enthusiasts, when was the last time honda released anything groundbreaking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasemas
alot of their cars have fallen behind their competitors. even their flagship line up is disappointing when compared to their competitors. sure its comfy but thats about where it stops, things get even worse when you compare that the AUDM and other markets features.
At least their lawnmowers are still good :(
Accuse me what you like, I had my CL9 for 10 years, 2nd batch to ever come in the country, I saw Honda fall from the podium, in slow mo train crash mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by antony
I'm passionate about my Euro but I'm no "fanboi". You can see where the corporate decisions are sh1tty and Honda had been riding on their reputation for a decade.... All the while rooting their customers and squeezing them for every cent over parts and servicing.
I'm on whirlpool to give a bit of perspective from the usual fanfare.
As much as I love my car it's no excuse for poor management decisions and corporate strategy:
- Im not the one decided to weld the exhaust manifold into the K24 in the CU2
- Im not the one decided to bloat the CU2 to add another 150kg's
- Im not the one decided to NOT use the AVTEC technology thats been sitting on a damn shelf since 2006
- Im not the one decided to NOT use the Direct Injection technology thats in the Honda Steam since 2003!
- Im not the one who decided to NOT make any changes to a transmission design thats know to cause issues
- Im not the one who decided to drop all performance cars from the line up in the mid 2000's
- Im not the one who decided Halo cars aren't important (NSX)
They had the technology that would enable them to be competitive, market leaders even: AVTEC (Advanced Vtec), direct Injection etc, they decided against it, AND dropped their sports lineup for eco-cars. I don't hate them, Honda seems to hate their own R&D department.
They had a chance to be market leader in the mid 2000's, yet they pissed it all away.
I'm not about to be one like of those falcodore fanboi's who refuse to recognise consumer pattern had changed and their large sedans are becoming less and less relevant.
PS: you'd find the Euro Modification scene here is just as popular as the US, Join AusEuro fb page to check it out yourself.
PSS: Dont give me the crap that I don't love Honda, no, HONDA dont Love HONDA.
The Euro is a great car that also reflects everything that went wrong with Honda.Quote:
Fredoops seems to be the only one in favour of this.
If you really hate your CL9 so much,as you always appear to do,you will sell it very easily,and buy a competitors product.
You can probably compare it to the likes of Eunos 800 of the 90's, brilliant car, awful corporate strategy that almost sent Mazda broke.
When it finally gets off the "daily driver" list im converting it into a club racer, it's more stable than an Integra.Quote:
Originally Posted by axispower
I'm with Fred. I love my Euro, but I can see Honda completely stuffing up the next one. I mean the CU2 is basically running on the CL9 running gear, but with 150kg more bulk. Looking at the new CRV, Accord and Civic, I doubt that Honda would be able to do anything but carry over the current drive train. Now considering the Euro typical model life is 6-7 years, that would mean the next Euro would have essentially the same drivetrain, but a heavier body again, and will have to last till 2018! It's like saying, the NSX is a legendary car for Honda which really broughht up the company's status. So the next one should be a 4 door sedan weighing 2 tones and powered by a 1.6lt 60kw N/A petrol..... why ruin the name plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by antony
I think I've mentioned it before, but I don't blame Honda for this. GFC hit, and most other companies were support by the countries, e.g GM and Ford by US; Holden, Ford and Toyota got Aus gov funding. Honda had Japan, who was hit by the tsunami, and are still suffering power problems as they are now. They were also hit by the Thailand flood, meaning that most of their production was shut down. Australia didn't see any stock of anything other than the Civic Type R and Euro for like a year. No money = no R&D. At most, the best Honda would be able to do would be fit more tech and a different skin onto the CU2 and claim it's a new car, but compared to current competiton, how well do you think it'll hold? Even a Camry would be able to compete against it.
Id love to see it. Id also like to hear your CL9 growl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredoops
Funny how the UK Honda doesnt sell the US Accord... Maybe the Euro will be continued by the Poms as well?
EU's dropping the AccordQuote:
Originally Posted by denot
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-honda-accord/
well considering it sold 2500 cars last year in TOTAL in the UK, hardly suprising.
This is an intereting video, from 13 years ago by Clarkson, prophetic lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSYD4...ture=endscreen
its scarily true. and not just in the automotive world but in almost every sector that the japanese once excelled in.