[Euro] Does your Euro accelerate quicker with VSA off?

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01-12-2006, 12:39 PM
EuroDude

[Euro] Does your Euro accelerate quicker with VSA off?

I'm referring to when you take off from a stand still as quick as you can WITHOUT wheel-spinning, or when you accelerate hard after shifting into 2nd or 3rd.

I'm not referring to when VSA is ON and the /!\ VSA light flashes like crazy over a rough surface. I'm talking about a clean acceleration in both circumstances -> when VSA is ON or OFF via the VSA switch.

When VSA is ON - Acceleration feels smooth and a bit limited at low-mid revs sometimes. Stability at the front wheels feels solid and smooth.

When VSA is OFF - Acceleration feels more rapid and more consistent, with the ECU outputting as much power/throttle as possible. There is less stability during acceleration and feels a bit unstable on occasion. BUT not to the extent that the wheels loose traction and chirp/wheelspin.

My theory is that VSA limits the electronic throttle at low-mid revs to provide better traction and smoothness during acceleration, hence less power.
If VSA senses a bit of wheel slip or instability (for instance when a rock or bump passes under one of the front wheels), VSA goes into action for a split moment and cuts a bit of the throttle, despite not seeing the /!\ VSA icon flash.

With my MY06 Euro 6MT, acceleration power is considerably improved when VSA is off. The difference is quite substantial, feeling like the engine gained an extra 20kw/20nm compared to when VSA is ON.

Do you notice this too?
01-12-2006, 01:00 PM
yfin

You need a new poll category - "I have time tested it and there is definately no difference". :D

I have tested rolling runs in a variety of gears with the Apexi RSM with G Sensor. Tests showed no difference with VSA on or off. 60-100, 80-120 - whatever you want to try.

Euroaccord13 has a similar set up - he probably has tested same but he is same release year. Anyone with a time device on the 06 model? It would not be surprising if Honda have altered the software on the 06 model.

With the VSA off you can get the tyres to chirp on a quick 2nd gear change - so of course traction control is going to activate in those circumstances.
01-12-2006, 01:06 PM
Suntzu

Theres no difference IMO. Its in your head. If the switch was marked : VTEC ENGAGE button you would also think it was quicker if you pressed it...:cool:
01-12-2006, 01:06 PM
adammet04

mine does seem to accellerate faster from stand still..or at the very least, loss of traction is easier to induce...i think its an interesting question because im fairly sure when i have VSA off the steering at most speeds is well lighter i guess is the right word..
20kw is a massive call imho for a button which is meant to handle stability..
01-12-2006, 01:11 PM
yfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by adammet04

mine does seem to accellerate faster from stand still..or at the very least, loss of traction is easier to induce

Yeah, that is why we need to focus on rolling runs in the dry in this thread I think. It is too easy for the traction control to activate from stand still.
01-12-2006, 01:22 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

I'm referring to when you take off from a stand still as quick as you can WITHOUT wheel-spinning, or when you accelerate hard after shifting into 2nd or 3rd.

In these 2 situations, you can lose traction and engage VSA. A better test would be to be cruising in 2nd gear at 4000rpm. You then floor the throttle with VSA on and off to see a difference.

With your two situations above, all you are asking is whether VSA works when it is turned on. LOL!
01-12-2006, 01:25 PM
EuroDude

Well not necessarily from a standstill. It happens during a rolling start starting at low revs. Basically from 1000RPM to 4000RPM its more "aggressive".

And I'm quite certain its not just in my mind lol. It truly feels like there is a 10-20kw difference, otherwise I wouldnt have posted the thread :)

When the tyres chirp or wheelspin, thats another story off course. Im referring to clean acceleration.
01-12-2006, 01:25 PM
adammet04

indeed but rolling runs slightly harder in auto's or are you talking about an accell from a given speed (eg 40km/h)
01-12-2006, 01:27 PM
yfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by adammet04

indeed but rolling runs slightly harder in auto's or are you talking about an accell from a given speed (eg 40km/h)

Yeah, just a given speed in a set gear that will not activate traction control (eg hold it with the tiptronic in 2nd at 50kph or something). Try VSA on and off.

As Aaron has pointed out - I think people are going to be confused by this thread question... It really needs to be a circumstance where VSA will not activate.
01-12-2006, 01:29 PM
yfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

Well not necessarily from a standstill. It happens during a rolling start starting at low revs. Basically from 1000RPM to 4000RPM its more "aggressive".

And I'm quite certain its not just in my mind lol. It truly feels like there is a 10-20kw difference, otherwise I wouldnt have posted the thread :)

When the tyres chirp or wheelspin, thats another story off course. Im referring to clean acceleration.

At the next Sydney meet you and Aaron should test this out as it doesn't happen on the older models. I can assure you those of us with the car for 3 years would have noticed a 10-20kw difference during a rolling start :D
01-12-2006, 01:29 PM
adammet04

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

Well not necessarily from a standstill. It happens during a rolling start starting at low revs. Basically from 1000RPM to 4000RPM its more "aggressive".

And I'm quite certain its not just in my mind lol. It truly feels like there is a 10-20kw difference, otherwise I wouldnt have posted the thread :)

When the tyres chirp or wheelspin, thats another story off course. Im referring to clean acceleration.

hmmm yeah fair enough...
01-12-2006, 01:31 PM
adammet04

I suppose when VSA will not activate is when you dont see the symbol flashing like crazy ?
01-12-2006, 01:37 PM
yfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suntzu

Theres no difference IMO. Its in your head. If the switch was marked : VTEC ENGAGE button you would also think it was quicker if you pressed it...:cool:

lol. classic. What we need is the Knight Rider turbo boost..

http://www.thinkthrice.de/wp-content.../07/kittp2.jpg
01-12-2006, 01:41 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by yfin

I can assure you those of us with the car for 3 years would have noticed a 10-20kw difference during a rolling start :D

I wish I had a 20kW button on my car. Well, at least I can be contented with my 140kW button. It's long and black and at my right foot. :D Too bad it starts from 0 kW instead of 140.
01-12-2006, 01:45 PM
EuroDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by adammet04

indeed but rolling runs slightly harder in auto's or are you talking about an accell from a given speed (eg 40km/h)

Not at a given speed, but rather a given RPM range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yfin

Yeah, just a given speed in a set gear that will not activate traction control (eg hold it with the tiptronic in 2nd at 50kph or something). Try VSA on and off.

As Aaron has pointed out - I think people are going to be confused by this thread question... It really needs to be a circumstance where VSA will not activate.

Original post edited

Quote:

Originally Posted by yfin

At the next Sydney meet you and Aaron should test this out as it doesn't happen on the older models. I can assure you those of us with the car for 3 years would have noticed a 10-20kw difference during a rolling start :D

lol well I would need to test the car in both situations, on and off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adammet04

I suppose when VSA will not activate is when you dont see the symbol flashing like crazy ?

Yes when VSA is ON, I'm referring to when the /!\ light doesnt flash or anything.
01-12-2006, 01:47 PM
Pumped

i have an 06 Manual, all i find is it allows you to get into gear and put the power down quicker, allowing more wheel spin which in most cases allows a quicker launch and gear changing, cant say it feels actually faster, just more willing to spin the wheels

I'll have a play with it driving home from work today, take more notice :)
01-12-2006, 02:02 PM
sendok

i need to try to :) curious what the feeling..
01-12-2006, 05:59 PM
tony1234

[QUOTE=aaronng;993982]In these 2 situations, you can lose traction and engage VSA. A better test would be to be cruising in 2nd gear at 4000rpm. You then floor the throttle with VSA on and off to see a difference.
No diff.VSA on or off cruising in 2nd @ 4000rpm then floor it.Did it earlier today.
01-12-2006, 06:56 PM
aaronng

^^ Yup, same as what I feel.

BTW, you need to add [/quote] at the end of the quote.
01-12-2006, 07:48 PM
Chris_F

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronng

^^ Yup, same as what I feel.

BTW, you need to add [ /quote] at the end of the quote.

I thought he already learnt that :( lol
01-12-2006, 11:28 PM
EuroDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony12345

No diff.VSA on or off cruising in 2nd @ 4000rpm then floor it.Did it earlier today.

You know how VSA limits the throttle when you go around a sharp corner?

Well thats how it feels in my Euro when going in a straight line.
Maybe my euro's G-Force sensor is too sensitive or something lol.
The euro's ABS is a billion times more sensitive than other cars so I wouldnt be surprised :p

ps. When VSA is ON, the slowdown doesnt happen EVERY time. If you are on a very good quality surface then VSA may not interfere at all. I drive on crappy syndey roads so it happens quite often for me.

It seems that even the slightest surface interruption/bump causes VSA to hesitate the throttle
02-12-2006, 07:06 AM
tony1234

Maybe it's in our minds!!!!
02-12-2006, 09:01 AM
Chris_F

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

You know how VSA limits the throttle when you go around a sharp corner?

Well thats how it feels in my Euro when going in a straight line.
Maybe my euro's G-Force sensor is too sensitive or something lol.
The euro's ABS is a billion times more sensitive than other cars so I wouldnt be surprised :p

ps. When VSA is ON, the slowdown doesnt happen EVERY time. If you are on a very good quality surface then VSA may not interfere at all. I drive on crappy syndey roads so it happens quite often for me.

It seems that even the slightest surface interruption/bump causes VSA to hesitate the throttle

I know what you mean, crappy roads somtimes cause my car to do the same. Maybe the /!\ is flashing briefly before you get a chance to look down from the road to see it?
02-12-2006, 10:21 AM
Suntzu

Hmm. I dont think WHEELSPIN and NOISE = FASTER unless you are in a VL commie with a beanie on.:wave:

Seriously though I have 18x7 wheels and decent tyres so I RARELY if ever spin, I dont even try, its gives you stuff all extra takeoff. Also my ABS is very reluctant to kick in. In fact it only kicks in at the appropriate time, emergency braking.

The only time I notice VSA is corning very hard and accelerating, ie a big roundabout. Then I dont mind as it reminds me to take it easy and to save it for the track.

i wonder if the mythical HONDATA will effect the VSA parameters.

I have heard of a product at autospeed where you can DIAL- IN the VSA parameters depending. I think its a bosch overide system.

I still say you guys are dreaming with the extra POWA with VSA off but I do accept that it depends on each car, tyres , driver ability etc.

I can tell you this though, VSA will not mean you will be dragging off V8's :o :honda:
02-12-2006, 11:22 AM
EuroDude

I'm not saying VSA being OFF gives you extra power, I'm saying VSA when ON can sometimes limit the electronic throttle.

Plus I'm referring to no wheelspinning or noise or anything, just clean acceleration.

@Chris-F, its possible the VSA light flashes briefly but i've never noticed it come on. Maybe its coming on for like 1ms and the bulb didnt get a chance to light up. And as we all know, the electronic throttle can delay for almost one second at times, so even a 1ms VSA throttle disturbance could greatly affect acceleration performance.

Maybe my Yoko tyres are slightly slipping during hard acceleration? :confused:
The problem may be solved by simply using different tyres..
02-12-2006, 03:12 PM
yfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

ps. When VSA is ON, the slowdown doesnt happen EVERY time. If you are on a very good quality surface then VSA may not interfere at all. I drive on crappy syndey roads so it happens quite often for me.

I think you have answered the poll question right there... :) Turning off VSA does not release 10 or 20kw. All you are noticing is traction control with VSA ON that activates over poor roads.
02-12-2006, 05:55 PM
VirIIx

I've been experiementing with VSA off again lately while the weather has been nice and sunny in Sydney and I personally feel the car is a bit more responsive and doesn't feel as limited or sluggish when VSA is on.

I certainly think that with VSA on it does limit how much acceleration is put into the wheel prevent them from spinning madly..

my few cents.. :]
02-12-2006, 06:26 PM
sameol3

i dont know about it increasing power but what i have noticed was the acceleration is more aggressive... feels like aslo as if the clutch is more clicky as in terms as it sticks in faster....

i cant say its any faster but hell it feels more fun driving without it lol... as VSA makes the ride so much smoother in transitions of gears...