VSA rocks!

this feature not only helped me avoid an accident, but possibly saved me from serious injury:

Driving north on mona vale rd, after St Ives (for the locals), speed is 90. I was in the lane nearest to centre of road and a van pulls out from my left and turns right across in front of me. shit. instinctly, i moved to turn left to avoid van but there was a car at my 8 o'clock in the next lane so I had no choice but to hit the brakes hard and swerve anyway. the car on my left also brakes hard and slides to the left to pre-empt my swerve. Now, going at 90 clicks and braking/swerving hard left violently will upset your car very badly, but not the euro. VSA not only provided excellent abs steering control, but i think it may have helped keep the car straight since I ended up swerving around the van and not in it or on the car next to me but my speed was still 50 odd clicks!. shit, imagine hitting a big object like the side of a van at 50 clicks!. The car next to me and I both stopped afterwards, but the van was long gone - lucky bastard.

I am now a believer in this technology and will always buy cars with stability assist.:thumbsup:

Did you notice the yellow flashing light on your dash when VSA was working?

Yep VSA has kept my car stable around corners with a shocking surface, works well in the wet too ftw.

U still gotta be careful though, VSA isnt fool-proof

lol he was looking at the dash when a van, and all this shit hit the fan!

lol the way the euro vsa works is it activates after the VSA has corrected the event - you see`flash flash flash`. Whereas the traction control component flashes until traction is regained.

I like to test these things...

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Originally Posted by Suntzu

lol he was looking at the dash when a van, and all this shit hit the fan!

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sorry, was a bit busy to look at the dash

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Originally Posted by blk05gli

sorry, was a bit busy to look at the dash

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negligent driver haha - you could have been speeding! Didnt you know the police expect you to look at the dash and road at the same time - all the time?

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Originally Posted by yfin

lol the way the euro vsa works is it activates after the VSA has corrected the event - you see`flash flash flash`. Whereas the traction control component flashes until traction is regained.

I like to test these things...

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when i got past the van, i had a look at the dash and the light was not flashing - should it have been flashing still after the event?

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Originally Posted by blk05gli

when i got past the van, i had a look at the dash and the light was not flashing - should it have been flashing still after the event?

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It is 3 flashes that is it - you can miss it in a few blinks of the eye.

It may be that your VSA didnt even activate - usually in the dry it doesnt activate. Much easier to activate in the wet. Swerving at speed really is nothing for the Euro - you really need to over/understeer for VSA to kick in.

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Originally Posted by yfin

It is 3 flashes that is it - you can miss it in a few blinks of the eye.

It may be that your VSA didnt even activate - usually in the dry it doesnt activate. Much easier to activate in the wet. Swerving at speed really is nothing for the Euro - you really need to over/understeer for VSA to kick in.

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then it was my driving that rocks, not electronics !! :thumbsup:

He wasnt speeding, I know that area and its a 90 zone after the 60-zone StIves area.

And yeh Ive had n00bs cut in front of me in the same area, especially where that petrol station is up further

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Originally Posted by blk05gli

then it was my driving that rocks, not electronics !! :thumbsup:

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Probably! Unless your Euro started to fishtail I think your VSA would not have done anything in the situation you describe.

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Originally Posted by EuroDude

He wasnt speedingr

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It was a joke...

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Originally Posted by EuroDude

He wasnt speeding, I know that area and its a 90 zone after the 60-zone StIves area.

And yeh Ive had n00bs cut in front of me in the same area, especially where that petrol station is up further

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same place man.

man, thats pretty lucky in so many ways.....just glad no one got hurt.

seriously, there are sooo many bad and dangerous drivers on the road. it amazes me how people are able to get their licenses so easily.

as for the euro. makes me feel even safer driving one=D

Good to hear stories like that.Proves what a capable car the Euro is.

The only time I seen the VSA lights blinks is during hard take off....

Ive had VSA save me once, Car started to understeer horribly vsa got me round the corner fine, otherwise it would have just slid ..possibly into the gutter.

in all honesty, id have to agree with the previous statement 110% k lads

Why hasnt this technology been mandated yet? Should be IMO

I just have one advise for everyone, if you activated your VSA when cornering on public road, SLOW DOWN MATE!!! You are going too fast around the corner and you could get into accident, hurt or worst kill yourself and/or others! Learn thorough your mistakes and slow down through corners next time.

VSA can only do so much, if you push it beyond its limit, it won't be able to save you.

PS: this is not pointed at anyone specific, but for everyone, especially if you feel proud you've activated your VSA on public road :eek: I've seen so many people do stupid things on the road.

Oh and blk05gli, I have a feeling you didn't activate your VSA, but only the ABS. You'd be surprised how well euro handles :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by euro77

I just have one advise for everyone, if you activated your VSA when cornering on public road, SLOW DOWN MATE!!! You are going too fast around the corner and you could get into accident, hurt or worst kill yourself and/or others! Learn thorough your mistakes and slow down through corners next time.

VSA can only do so much, if you push it beyond its limit, it won't be able to save you.

PS: this is not pointed at anyone specific, but for everyone, especially if you feel proud you've activated your VSA on public road :eek: I've seen so many people do stupid things on the road.

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Depends on your tyres and how wet it is. I sometimes had VSA (not traction control) kick in when my Falkens were worn (still legal tread). Car would understeer and VSA would kick in and straighten up the car - even at slow speeds.

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Originally Posted by euro77

I just have one advise for everyone, if you activated your VSA when cornering on public road, SLOW DOWN MATE!!! You are going too fast around the corner and you could get into accident, hurt or worst kill yourself and/or others! Learn thorough your mistakes and slow down through corners next time.

VSA can only do so much, if you push it beyond its limit, it won't be able to save you.

PS: this is not pointed at anyone specific, but for everyone, especially if you feel proud you've activated your VSA on public road :eek: I've seen so many people do stupid things on the road.

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You've obviously never been on canberra roundabouts in the wet.... 15degree incline away from the corner with bumps in the middle... very easy for VSA to kick in, even when going slow!

but good point, people should be careful, VSA can only brake for you, it can't add extra traction to the tyres!

Of course there will be occassion where your VSA will kick in, especially in emergencies. But I'm more referring to those who keeps activating it and proud of it. Sorry, should be more clearer in my post.

Sometimes I too am amazed at how well VSA works. However it seems to work 'nicer' in the wet than in the dry sometimes.

If you go around corners in the wet and step on full throttle, the car doesn't run wide at all. I've tried it numerous times, the VSA and Traction Control keeps the car within lane markings. However doing the same quick corner in the dry, the VSA doesnt want to turn on and the car understeers more than I intend.

As for turning into corners too quickly, as soon as it feels like it will under or oversteer the VSA will correct it too but I've only activated it whilst cornering in the wet (I mean wet). It turns into oversteer for a fraction of a sec however but anyway, it can't save you if you turn in overly too fast anyway. No active or passive safety system can save a driver who drives 20kph or 50 kph too fast into a corner...

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Originally Posted by Omotesando

Sometimes I too am amazed at how well VSA works. However it seems to work 'nicer' in the wet than in the dry sometimes.

If you go around corners in the wet and step on full throttle, the car doesn't run wide at all. I've tried it numerous times, the VSA and Traction Control keeps the car within lane markings. However doing the same quick corner in the dry, the VSA doesnt want to turn on and the car understeers more than I intend.

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In the wet, what you are experiencing is the traction control, not the VSA.

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Originally Posted by Omotesando

As for turning into corners too quickly, as soon as it feels like it will under or oversteer the VSA will correct it too but I've only activated it whilst cornering in the wet (I mean wet). It turns into oversteer for a fraction of a sec however but anyway, it can't save you if you turn in overly too fast anyway. No active or passive safety system can save a driver who drives 20kph or 50 kph too fast into a corner...

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Yeah, the under-oversteer is the VSA. After experiencing it once in the dry at the speed limit on a smooth curvey road, I started turning it off all together. I prefer gradual understeer that I can control rather than snap oversteer.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

In the wet, what you are experiencing is the traction control, not the VSA.

Yeah, the under-oversteer is the VSA. After experiencing it once in the dry at the speed limit on a smooth curvey road, I started turning it off all together. I prefer gradual understeer that I can control rather than snap oversteer.

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It is so funny you say that as if you are the person who understands how it works. I typed Traction Control specifically because I was experiencing Traction Control when I am accelerating with steering input in the wet, but in reality it is an integral part of the VSA system hence I also wrote VSA afterwards. VSA has many components that make up the complete system, Traction control and ABS are part of the package, and as far as I'm concerned, you can turn the VSA off and there will be no Traction Control left either (but there will be ABS), so I don't understand what you said at all.

As for gradual understeer vs snap oversteer, in actual fact, generally speaking oversteer is usually safer than understeer because you won't be ploughing into on-coming cars. The snap oversteer will of course be as dangerous in some situations depending on how many metres it stepped out but if your car didn't snap oversteer to the point of swapping ends then I don't understand why you think gradual understeer is safer than snap over-steer unless you ended up facing the other direction? Which I think is highly unlikely.

If you are already committed to a corner and the corner is still a curvature, then obviously oversteer will be safer than understeer because even as it oversteers it will still turn into the corner and the rear of the car is more likely to be within the same lane despite it feeling a bit loose. Perhaps I am used to driving Rear wheel drive before my Honda Euro and I got used to the dangerous feeling of oversteer but ultimately unless it 'snapped' around I wouldn't call the VSA kicking in as snap oversteer, but more like an oversteer correction to help it being in control.

This also reminds me of Craig Lowdnes driving someone else's WRX in Wheels mag and understeered the thing into the wall.

What a load of BS you are spewing Omote.

If you can't tell the differnece between the engagement of different aspects of the assistance package then you need to get to know your car better. I can EASILY tell when the car is restricting power for traction control purposes versus the braking of individual corners for spin recovery. Perhaps you need to learn this in controlled conditions yourself before commenting on others knowledge.

In terms of the entire oversteer vs understeer argument then thats a waste of bits/bytes on the interweb/tubes cause it depends on the cars AND the circumstances.

In other words HTFU.

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Originally Posted by euro77

Oh and blk05gli, I have a feeling you didn't activate your VSA, but only the ABS. You'd be surprised how well euro handles :thumbsup:

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i am not suprised anymore - my euro rocks!!:thumbsup:

Every now and then I turn my VSA off to have some fun, but yeah, it's a great system that works tremendously well.

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Originally Posted by Omotesando

It is so funny you say that as if you are the person who understands how it works. I typed Traction Control specifically because I was experiencing Traction Control when I am accelerating with steering input in the wet, but in reality it is an integral part of the VSA system hence I also wrote VSA afterwards. VSA has many components that make up the complete system, Traction control and ABS are part of the package, and as far as I'm concerned, you can turn the VSA off and there will be no Traction Control left either (but there will be ABS), so I don't understand what you said at all.

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They are different. Traction control cuts power when the throttle is applied and the wheel speed sensor detects a difference in speed between the VSS and front wheels. ABS works when the brake is used and there is a difference between the VSS and wheel speed sensor. VSA is software (and sensors) to use both the traction control and ABS as tools to return control to the car when under or oversteer is detected. The difference is that while traction control and ABS are mechanical systems, VSA consists of sensors to measure steering angle, lateral G as well as car rotation, and software to bring the whole package together for use to keep the car in control.

You have to differentiate between TC and VSA, and that both require different situations in order to activate. If you were accelerating in the wet with steering input, that's traction control. If you were turning in the wet with your foot no where near the accelerator, that's VSA.

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Originally Posted by Omotesando

As for gradual understeer vs snap oversteer, in actual fact, generally speaking oversteer is usually safer than understeer because you won't be ploughing into on-coming cars. The snap oversteer will of course be as dangerous in some situations depending on how many metres it stepped out but if your car didn't snap oversteer to the point of swapping ends then I don't understand why you think gradual understeer is safer than snap over-steer unless you ended up facing the other direction? Which I think is highly unlikely.

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Sorry, understeer is ALWAYS safer than oversteer, because you you need to do to stop understeer is to release the throttle and press the brakes. That is instinctive to most drivers of both genders. To counter oversteer, you need sufficient opposite lock and that is a skill that the average motorist does not learn.

omote read this, it might help you understand the many different electronic driver aids incorporated into the euro:

ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System)
This is the basis for all the other technologies. The primary function of ABS is to manage the slip (lockup tendency in engineering speak) of each tyre and control the amount of slip each tyre is allowed. This is done to optimize the ability of the tyre to generate longitudinal tyre forces and lateral tyre forces. This is engineering jargon which means how much stopping power and cornering power the tyre, and ultimately the vehicle, can generate. In other words, the system allows the driver to brake hard and/or turn at the same time without losing traction and sliding off the road.

EBD (Electronic Brake Force Distribution) is the next extension of ABS
This system replaces the function of the traditional proportioning valve and manages the front to rear brake balance (and left right) of the vehicle across all vehicle loading conditions and road surface conditions. Example: If the left hand side of the car is driving on gravel, and the right side is on the road, obviously the right side can brake harder than the left before losing traction.

TCS (Traction Control System) is essentially ABS in reverse.
TCS works to allow the tyre to provide the maximum longitudinal tractive force during acceleration and also match the engine output to the level the road surface can absorb.

VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) Incorporates two main components:
ESC (Electronic Stability Control)
This technology takes the path the vehicle is really travelling and compares this to where the driver really wants to go. If the two do not match, the vehicle is either understeering or oversteering. Once one of these conditions is identified, using millions of complex logarithms the brake system is activated at specific wheels to provide a rotation force on the vehicle to get it back on track. It is kind of like sticking a paddle in the water on the left side of a canoe to force a turn left.

RSC (Roll Stability Control)
The most recent technology emerging in vehicles.
This system evaluates the tendency of a vehicle to roll over and once the onset of a roll is identified, the wheels on one side of the vehicle are heavily braked in order to reduce the amount of lateral adhesion. The goal is essentially to put the vehicle into a side slide to prevent the role tendency.

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Originally Posted by Omotesando

generally speaking oversteer is usually safer than understeer because you won't be ploughing into on-coming cars.

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We live in Australia, we drive on the left side of the road... if your going around a bend to the right and you start understeering, the car will be sliding out and off the road. if you oversteer, the car will pull to the right hard as the back of the car slides forward and accross the lane INTO oncoming traffic! Think about how many times youve seen a car understeer hard and end up doing a 180 facing oncoming traffic. Now considering you can only be turning left or right, 50% of your corners will be to the right... How does that make it safer? and as aaronng said, understeer is easy to correct by allowing the vehicle to slow down and the front wheels regain traction... over steer is much harder to correct. maybe you should think before attacking others knowledge... or look at the number of green squares they have? :P

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Originally Posted by EUR003act

or look at the number of green squares they have? :P

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Having the squares doesn't mean that I am right though. :)

Having just moved FWD to high power RWD - I can tell you that it is easy to induce oversteer particularly at low speeds in the wet in the RWD. Anything but straight steering and hello oversteer around corners and it doesnt take that much throttle to achieve. Now of course this depends on the actual vehicle but I can see how oversteer can get people into plenty of grief.

Think back to the Euro and to see anything remotely resembling understeer required the vehicle to be driven harder than most people would ever do on public roads. And you would not see it at slow speeds like you can see oversteer in the RWD.

So for most mere mortals FWD is safer in my view.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Having the squares doesn't mean that I am right though. :)

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lol it justs means im more likely to believe you :D lol

and yfin i know exactly what you mean, XR6 turbo ute in the wet is not a good thing... i think you know where im coming from lol

atleast in a RWD you can power out of it and get the rear to snap back in... unlike FWD :(

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Originally Posted by EUR003act

How does that make it safer? and as aaronng said, understeer is easy to correct by allowing the vehicle to slow down and the front wheels regain traction... over steer is much harder to correct.

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Lets not get into a debate about which is safer and easier to correct. It greatly depends on driver ability and quite posibly even then car/setup.

For me in the mx5 i would much prefer oversteer (no matter how snappy and sudden).

In the accord euro the gradual understeer is much easier managed.

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Originally Posted by luxobarge

Lets not get into a debate about which is safer and easier to correct. It greatly depends on driver ability and quite posibly even then car/setup.

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true that :)

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Having the squares doesn't mean that I am right though. :)

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ahh... thats what those green squares are for..... :p Can someone give me more?

Most non performance cars are design to induce some slight understeer for safety reason..... if you are understeering, just lift off and the head will tuck back in.

VSA = Freaking Awesome...
Can't count how many VSA has helped me out and also let me power on over those AWD guys...

Hi guys, like to ask for your opinion, not sure if VSC of my Euro is working or not because:
1) today it was drizzling a bit, wet road, I was trying to accelerate from stand still to make a turn at busy intersection as the light turn red (so on coming cars have stop allows me to do the turn safely), for some reason I get the wheel spin I hardly have before (yes is an AUTO, very hard to get wheel spin normally. My wheel was pointing straight when it happens. VSC light did not come on, I can hear and feel wheel spinning no traction control to cut in stopping it ~1/2-1sec). I have to ease off the accelerator to re-gain traction so my Euro can move straight for a few meters before the actual turn.
2) Some round abouts get very slippery in wet, under no acceleration, I can feel the understeer happening and have to balance with some breaks. I check it again some time ago when it is safe I let it oversteer & run wide to check, but I don't see VSC light come on at all.
Thus this mean my VSC is not working?

VSA/VSC only comes on in dire conditions, at least what it judges as dire. The VSA in the Euro has been praised for not being a Nanny like in all Toyota's, in that they don't just pop-up whenever some wheel slip occurs. If I put it in another way, if you look at German cars, they tend to have ON, SPORT and OFF, settings. With Toyota, it would be ON or OFF. With the Euro, it would be SPORT or OFF. In SPORT, VSC shouldn't correct the car unless there's sudden movement or loss of grip. It's not like the EDC on Golfs where they brake the inner wheel to lessen understeer, or such. But if you're really concerned, get Honda to do a check up. Should be free anyway.

I think you are right ChaosMaster. I've ask Honda during my service and they say it is normal to have some degree of slips before VSA kicks in. They've check according to their schedule, and everythings seems OK. I still can't believe I can feel and react to the slip before the VSA kicks in. But VSA did safe my life before when I have to avoid a UTE swifting head on to my side of the road few years before, just like you said in "DIRE" condition.

VSA is hell aggressive on my car, one slip and the dash starts partying disco style.

Countless times I can think of going a little too fast at take off and my car has told me off. :-)

i just re-read this thread, can't believe its been almost 6 years since I posted this. Since the Euro is still with us and coming upto 7 years in age now, its good to know that the safety technology from back then is still just as useful now. Solid Honda engineering.

A RWD Euro would be the ultimate Honda, I'd say. There's nothing like getting the back end to come out when you want to. Hopefully there's VSA to stop it from sliding when you don't want it to :)

Do all Euro's have VSA ?

Too aggressive and cuts power abruptly in my experience.

I drive better without it.