VSA rocks!

[euro77]

Of course there will be occassion where your VSA will kick in, especially in emergencies. But I'm more referring to those who keeps activating it and proud of it. Sorry, should be more clearer in my post.

[Omotesando]

Sometimes I too am amazed at how well VSA works. However it seems to work 'nicer' in the wet than in the dry sometimes.

If you go around corners in the wet and step on full throttle, the car doesn't run wide at all. I've tried it numerous times, the VSA and Traction Control keeps the car within lane markings. However doing the same quick corner in the dry, the VSA doesnt want to turn on and the car understeers more than I intend.

As for turning into corners too quickly, as soon as it feels like it will under or oversteer the VSA will correct it too but I've only activated it whilst cornering in the wet (I mean wet). It turns into oversteer for a fraction of a sec however but anyway, it can't save you if you turn in overly too fast anyway. No active or passive safety system can save a driver who drives 20kph or 50 kph too fast into a corner...

[aaronng]

Sometimes I too am amazed at how well VSA works. However it seems to work 'nicer' in the wet than in the dry sometimes.

If you go around corners in the wet and step on full throttle, the car doesn't run wide at all. I've tried it numerous times, the VSA and Traction Control keeps the car within lane markings. However doing the same quick corner in the dry, the VSA doesnt want to turn on and the car understeers more than I intend.

In the wet, what you are experiencing is the traction control, not the VSA.

As for turning into corners too quickly, as soon as it feels like it will under or oversteer the VSA will correct it too but I've only activated it whilst cornering in the wet (I mean wet). It turns into oversteer for a fraction of a sec however but anyway, it can't save you if you turn in overly too fast anyway. No active or passive safety system can save a driver who drives 20kph or 50 kph too fast into a corner...

Yeah, the under-oversteer is the VSA. After experiencing it once in the dry at the speed limit on a smooth curvey road, I started turning it off all together. I prefer gradual understeer that I can control rather than snap oversteer.

[Omotesando]

In the wet, what you are experiencing is the traction control, not the VSA.

Yeah, the under-oversteer is the VSA. After experiencing it once in the dry at the speed limit on a smooth curvey road, I started turning it off all together. I prefer gradual understeer that I can control rather than snap oversteer.

It is so funny you say that as if you are the person who understands how it works. I typed Traction Control specifically because I was experiencing Traction Control when I am accelerating with steering input in the wet, but in reality it is an integral part of the VSA system hence I also wrote VSA afterwards. VSA has many components that make up the complete system, Traction control and ABS are part of the package, and as far as I'm concerned, you can turn the VSA off and there will be no Traction Control left either (but there will be ABS), so I don't understand what you said at all.

As for gradual understeer vs snap oversteer, in actual fact, generally speaking oversteer is usually safer than understeer because you won't be ploughing into on-coming cars. The snap oversteer will of course be as dangerous in some situations depending on how many metres it stepped out but if your car didn't snap oversteer to the point of swapping ends then I don't understand why you think gradual understeer is safer than snap over-steer unless you ended up facing the other direction? Which I think is highly unlikely.

If you are already committed to a corner and the corner is still a curvature, then obviously oversteer will be safer than understeer because even as it oversteers it will still turn into the corner and the rear of the car is more likely to be within the same lane despite it feeling a bit loose. Perhaps I am used to driving Rear wheel drive before my Honda Euro and I got used to the dangerous feeling of oversteer but ultimately unless it 'snapped' around I wouldn't call the VSA kicking in as snap oversteer, but more like an oversteer correction to help it being in control.

This also reminds me of Craig Lowdnes driving someone else's WRX in Wheels mag and understeered the thing into the wall.

[Suntzu]

What a load of BS you are spewing Omote.

If you can't tell the differnece between the engagement of different aspects of the assistance package then you need to get to know your car better. I can EASILY tell when the car is restricting power for traction control purposes versus the braking of individual corners for spin recovery. Perhaps you need to learn this in controlled conditions yourself before commenting on others knowledge.

In terms of the entire oversteer vs understeer argument then thats a waste of bits/bytes on the interweb/tubes cause it depends on the cars AND the circumstances.

In other words HTFU.

[blk05gli]

Oh and blk05gli, I have a feeling you didn't activate your VSA, but only the ABS. You'd be surprised how well euro handles

i am not suprised anymore - my euro rocks!!

[tim-e]

Every now and then I turn my VSA off to have some fun, but yeah, it's a great system that works tremendously well.

[aaronng]

It is so funny you say that as if you are the person who understands how it works. I typed Traction Control specifically because I was experiencing Traction Control when I am accelerating with steering input in the wet, but in reality it is an integral part of the VSA system hence I also wrote VSA afterwards. VSA has many components that make up the complete system, Traction control and ABS are part of the package, and as far as I'm concerned, you can turn the VSA off and there will be no Traction Control left either (but there will be ABS), so I don't understand what you said at all.

They are different. Traction control cuts power when the throttle is applied and the wheel speed sensor detects a difference in speed between the VSS and front wheels. ABS works when the brake is used and there is a difference between the VSS and wheel speed sensor. VSA is software (and sensors) to use both the traction control and ABS as tools to return control to the car when under or oversteer is detected. The difference is that while traction control and ABS are mechanical systems, VSA consists of sensors to measure steering angle, lateral G as well as car rotation, and software to bring the whole package together for use to keep the car in control.

You have to differentiate between TC and VSA, and that both require different situations in order to activate. If you were accelerating in the wet with steering input, that's traction control. If you were turning in the wet with your foot no where near the accelerator, that's VSA.

As for gradual understeer vs snap oversteer, in actual fact, generally speaking oversteer is usually safer than understeer because you won't be ploughing into on-coming cars. The snap oversteer will of course be as dangerous in some situations depending on how many metres it stepped out but if your car didn't snap oversteer to the point of swapping ends then I don't understand why you think gradual understeer is safer than snap over-steer unless you ended up facing the other direction? Which I think is highly unlikely.

Sorry, understeer is ALWAYS safer than oversteer, because you you need to do to stop understeer is to release the throttle and press the brakes. That is instinctive to most drivers of both genders. To counter oversteer, you need sufficient opposite lock and that is a skill that the average motorist does not learn.

[EUR003act]

omote read this, it might help you understand the many different electronic driver aids incorporated into the euro:

ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System)
This is the basis for all the other technologies. The primary function of ABS is to manage the slip (lockup tendency in engineering speak) of each tyre and control the amount of slip each tyre is allowed. This is done to optimize the ability of the tyre to generate longitudinal tyre forces and lateral tyre forces. This is engineering jargon which means how much stopping power and cornering power the tyre, and ultimately the vehicle, can generate. In other words, the system allows the driver to brake hard and/or turn at the same time without losing traction and sliding off the road.

EBD (Electronic Brake Force Distribution) is the next extension of ABS
This system replaces the function of the traditional proportioning valve and manages the front to rear brake balance (and left right) of the vehicle across all vehicle loading conditions and road surface conditions. Example: If the left hand side of the car is driving on gravel, and the right side is on the road, obviously the right side can brake harder than the left before losing traction.

TCS (Traction Control System) is essentially ABS in reverse.
TCS works to allow the tyre to provide the maximum longitudinal tractive force during acceleration and also match the engine output to the level the road surface can absorb.

VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) Incorporates two main components:
ESC (Electronic Stability Control)
This technology takes the path the vehicle is really travelling and compares this to where the driver really wants to go. If the two do not match, the vehicle is either understeering or oversteering. Once one of these conditions is identified, using millions of complex logarithms the brake system is activated at specific wheels to provide a rotation force on the vehicle to get it back on track. It is kind of like sticking a paddle in the water on the left side of a canoe to force a turn left.

RSC (Roll Stability Control)
The most recent technology emerging in vehicles.
This system evaluates the tendency of a vehicle to roll over and once the onset of a roll is identified, the wheels on one side of the vehicle are heavily braked in order to reduce the amount of lateral adhesion. The goal is essentially to put the vehicle into a side slide to prevent the role tendency.

[EUR003act]

generally speaking oversteer is usually safer than understeer because you won't be ploughing into on-coming cars.

We live in Australia, we drive on the left side of the road... if your going around a bend to the right and you start understeering, the car will be sliding out and off the road. if you oversteer, the car will pull to the right hard as the back of the car slides forward and accross the lane INTO oncoming traffic! Think about how many times youve seen a car understeer hard and end up doing a 180 facing oncoming traffic. Now considering you can only be turning left or right, 50% of your corners will be to the right... How does that make it safer? and as aaronng said, understeer is easy to correct by allowing the vehicle to slow down and the front wheels regain traction... over steer is much harder to correct. maybe you should think before attacking others knowledge... or look at the number of green squares they have? :P

[aaronng]

or look at the number of green squares they have? :P

Having the squares doesn't mean that I am right though.

[yfin]

Having just moved FWD to high power RWD - I can tell you that it is easy to induce oversteer particularly at low speeds in the wet in the RWD. Anything but straight steering and hello oversteer around corners and it doesnt take that much throttle to achieve. Now of course this depends on the actual vehicle but I can see how oversteer can get people into plenty of grief.

Think back to the Euro and to see anything remotely resembling understeer required the vehicle to be driven harder than most people would ever do on public roads. And you would not see it at slow speeds like you can see oversteer in the RWD.

So for most mere mortals FWD is safer in my view.