hey guys,
im looking at getting skunk2 stage 2 (or 3!) cams... im guessing ill have to upgrade my valve springs and retainers... anything else i should look at doing to run the cams?
thanks
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hey guys,
im looking at getting skunk2 stage 2 (or 3!) cams... im guessing ill have to upgrade my valve springs and retainers... anything else i should look at doing to run the cams?
thanks
I got the magazine that showed the Skunk2 Project TSX that made 240 hp at wheel. Skunk2 mentioned that stage 1 is the best cams profile for stock bottom k24a2 since you can't really rev it more than 8500 rpm, there will be only very little clearance for the piston.
Anyway for the valve spring and retainer you needed to made power up to 8000 rpm however titanium retainer has lifespan from what I gathered it only last 10k km up to 15k km.
thanks for that ALN... so i only need valvesprings and retianers if increasing my rev limit over 8000rpm...
does anyone else know if theres any disadvantage (besides economy) for going stage2 or 3?
also, will a K20 intake manifold fit on a k24? yes i know id have to modify the throttle body plate... but i like the larger plenum off the k20 and can upgrade it to a h2p one aswell
i think to full recondition of the cylinder head with the cam will even better.
this is what i am going to do early in the year
Not really, aggresive cams are the one that produce power and valve spring retainer made it easier to reach higher rpm.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Hmm for stage 2 and stage 3, it will affect the idle and daily driven situation and it might required to do crankshaft and rods to be replaced with lighter and strong one to pass reach 8500 rpm or pass it.
k20a intake manifold has 2 good options like PRC from ITR and RBC from euro R. PRC will require to modify the water port and RBC will directly bolt on to K24 euro. There to be found RBC is better than PRC in term of flow however it will only serve better with aggressive cams combo and will lose power on stock cams.
You could try 06 TSX intake cam in which from what I heard to be better than japs spec ITR cams and it manage to make 15 hp more on the top compare to 04 spec.
http://www.hondata.com/reflash_tsx_06.html
sorry excuse my ignorance... whats PRC, ITR and RBC? cheers :D
PRC is intake manifold found from jap spec DC5R and RBC intake manifold found in Euro R. RBC also recently found in US 06 civic Si. In skunk2 project TSX, they used PRC to made around 240 hp at wheel however that was in feb 06 which the RBC was not yet tested by many k series hardcore users.
so i should try get the RBC, easier bolt on mod...
thanks again
no worries. Just try this website http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/
Prob, one of the cheapest online store and good luck with the project.
aln
how about the japan ctr Fd2 intake manifold will it fit to our car, i am thinking of putting the fd2 intake manifold and the spoon made throttle bodies on to our car, do you think it will work?
hehehe couldnt help myself... just ordered the RBC from a DC5 RSX/EP3 CTR...
it comes with:
-RBC INTAKE MANIFOLD
-"KARCEPTS" RBC ADAPTER TO MOUNT STOCK THROTTLE BODY
-GASKET - BETWEEN RBC MANIFOLD & KARCEPTS ADAPTER
-GASKET - BETWEED KARCEPTS ADAPTER & STOCK THROTTLE BODY
-VACUUM LINE - TO CONNECT RBC TO STOCK VACUUM FITTING
-HARDWARE TO MOUNT STOCK THROTTLE BODY TO KARCEPTS ADAPTER PLATE TO RBC MANIFOLD
(im not sure if ill need the TB adaptor as i think the RBC used drive-by-wire thottle anyway?)
i should have it within the week, ill install it when i put on my Hondata heatshield gasket, and do my throttle body coolant bypass :D
should work well in conjunction with TODA headers and K&N CAI...
now i just gotta save up for skunk2 stage 2 cams and jtune mild reflash :D
The TB, I guess it could fit to our euro since the TB of the FD2 is exactly the same with DC5/CL7 one with only difference in the system. I red from civic si forum that few of the members replaced their stock 60 mm tb to 06 TSX 64mm TB and it worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by fatfish
The intake manifold is new design which only available in FD2, but then again I guess it could fit our euro and if minor mods required it would be the water port. :D
FD2 are damn good though from the chassis, transmission to engine. It has adopted NSX tech :thumbsup:
http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/FD2K20AR/index.html
Did you order the Euro R intake manifold? I remember reading somewhere that installing it on the K24a engine caused it to lose power. The shorter runners are designed for high end power which suits the K20a but not the K24a.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
i think its the same as the euro R, i know its different to the K20 manifold off the S2K and ADM DC5, they use a more snail like intake... yes the shorter track will lose power low down, but it gains up to 7hp top end... and when used in conjunction with CAI, headers, and reflash, they obtained about 15hp gain... it'll also give me more room to move when it comes to cams and headwork...Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
you can see below the intake tract on the RBC is actually about the same length as the PRB, but doesnt snail around, allowing for free'r flowing air :)Quote:
Originally Posted by HONDATA WEBSITE
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...eBySidePRB.jpg
i have the stage 2 Skunk cams in my k24 civic, and i love em. i have standard headers which really restricts room to me to move, but mid-range to top-end is pretty intense, heaps more torque. you wont be disappointed if you decide on them.
personally, stage 3's are nuts...send a PM to Dr Honda for more information, he has them in his civic.
good luck
did you do any more engine work besides cams? like valve springs or anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by LUD35
thanks for that, good to see a real life example :)
who'd you get to install them?
Tb adapter got nothing to do with drive by wire system.
people use karcept TB adapter to run K20A throttle body on RBB and RBC intake manifold.
i was going more down the line that the adaptor was made for non DBW TBs... and i was under the impression that the RBC was made for DBW TBs (CTR and ATR) so i wouldnt need it...Quote:
Originally Posted by EG5
Interesting! Good luck mate. Let us know how you go with it. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
cheers :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
im kinda in a modding mood today... as soon as my bloody TODA headers arrive (still waiting after 8weeks!) and i get the intake on, ill go get her dyno'd :p
Is custom tuning needed with Cams? or would hondata do? Might pay to see what they come up with their cam/flash/extreme package we know how long this might be....
thats exactly what im wondering!
im pretty sure id need alot of tuning for stage 3... but would i get away with the jtune mild flash for stage 2 cams?
i have skunk stage 2 cams with stage 2 titanium valves and retainers. Dr Honda built the motor for me.no other internal work other than the cams and ARP head studs.
im running a k-pro, so no there arent any "custom" tuning specifically for the cams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EG5
From the TSX forums:
since the RRB and the RBC are newer, they require the use of a Drive-By-Wire throttle body. Since the K20A and other models are not Drive-By-Wire, the throttle bodies do not bolt up. You will need an adapter plate used in conjunction with a K20A throttle body and cable
the adaptor plate is only for non drive-by-wire TBs... so i wont need it for the k24a
thats what i just said up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
but anyway this mods should be good for you:thumbsup:
lol cheers buddy :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EG5
ill keep everyone updated!
You also need pistons, rods, pins and other goodies in the block. Otherwise the engine won't last spinning to over 8000rpm.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Yes, you should get proper tuning if you are replacing the cams.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
is there anyone that does custom tuning for the euro? do i have to get piggy back ecu (apexi AFC/NEO or similar) or can you just tune stock?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
VAFCii and the Neo are insufficient as they cannot control VTC and ignition timing. You will either have to get a custom reflash or go k-pro using a harness and a k20a ecu. There should be other brands of ECUs available for the Euro and those will work as well. Before choosing an ECU, I'd choose a tuner first.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Hmm.I hope you've got deep pockets EUROO3act.
id prefer custom reflash... as i dont want to loose cruise control/VSA/air con and all that other stuff you loose when changing to k20 ecu...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
my pockets arent deep, but a fool and his money are easily parted lol
Use the Hytech k24a/k20a ecu harness. You run 2 ECUs. The k20a with k-pro runs the engine and the k24a runs your A/C, cruise control and it might even keep VSA working (just guessing though). Downside is that the harness costs a few hundred USD, and a k-pro'd k20a ECU isn't exactly cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
is that just the US hondata k-pro ecu? thanks aaronngQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
On their website, it works with the PRB (USDM Type S) and the PRC (JDM DC5R) ECUs.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
your the man... ill let you drive my baby after shes finished :DQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I'm trying out the JDM DC5R intake plenum as well as the CL7 Euro R intake plenum, we'll see how it goes along with custom headers and ECU.....
The shorter runners delivers power @ around 6000 RPM and hence with our rev limiter, we are restricted to 1400RPM to play with on the powerband... This will be interesting....
if you get yours installed before me ull have to tell me everything!Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroAccord13
don't forget if you using the JDM DC5 intake, i think youll need an adaptor for the water bypass on the block?
what ecu can i use for auto car with k20 head swap valve spring, and cam change. will the stock ecu with vafc able to run
VAFC will only allow alteration of your A/F ratio and VTEC engagement points. A good tuner will be able to work out the best combination of these two parameters.
It is unable to alter ignition timing and control which alone can make good gains for the car.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...03/Front-1.jpg
just wanted to show off how sexy the RBC is :p
lol
oh and i finally found an engine cover for it! after days and days of trawling the net!
sorry but thats incorrect, depending on what kind of car the motor is in.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
keep in mind there are 4 types of k24's, k24a1/k24a2/k24a3/k24a4
k24a1's have the weakest bottom ends of all k24's, these are not recommended to be revved above 7900, and are weak motors, these come in bottom of the line CRV's(i think). the other's have stronger rods and pistons and can be taken up to approx 8200-8300 depending on other mods.
all that is needed to make a k24a2/a3/a4 rev all the way up to 9000rpm is forged rods and pistons. then again, you must remember that alot more work ontop of that must be done to make power all the way there ei. high end cams.
there is alot of information on this very subject at k20a.org
You're saying the same thing that I said. :) Take a stock K24A3 block, put on aggressive cams and Type R valve springs to prevent valve float and tune the ECU, you'll still get a hole in the block after revving it to 9000rpm say once a day for a month or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by LUD35
ok cool :) im glad my information is correct
I agreed with aaronng, if you search again on k20a.org there are a lot of discussion of k24a no matter which type, a2 or a1 can't really stand above 8000 rpm since the piston contact clearance unless rods and the crankshaft are to be replaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Just for reminder about the RBC , it has been discussed and tested already that can only works with aggressive cams in k24 engine. Stock k24 engine will suffer low and mid range power however the small gain will appear on top. However RBC to be found to produced higher output with combining with aggressive cams compare to other Honda's intake manifold. Anyway good luck, keep us posted.
at 7500rpm the K24s pistons are travelling at the same speed as the K20s doing 8500rpm... therefore, yes it'd probably destroy the engine doing 9000rpm... but im not looking at increasing rev limit... i am just talking about getting intake, skunk2 stage 2 cams, and ecu reflash...
The way cams work is to alter the point at which peak torque occurs. Since the Euro makes peak power at 6800rpm and peak torque at 4500rpm, you can expect that when you shift peak torque up to 6000rpm, you can make more power at over 8000rpm.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Assuming that you manage to push say 223Nm at 6800rpm using the stage 2 cams, that's only still 158.7kW. Say you lose some torque and hit only 200Nm but at 8000rpm, that is still 167.5kW!
RBC Intake Manifold anyone?
Time for a sandwich plate :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t150/RBC-1.jpg
mmmmm 158kw.... id be happy as larry with that!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
and the pic of the RBC manifold EUROACCORD13 - i got sooo excited just looking at it! you so have to let me know how it goes!
You want more excitement?
How about a Teaser of what ART is doing to the car.......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ct150/What.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...nitialTune.jpg
mmmmmmm looks like custom tuning to me!
lol soooo hot! :p
nice diagram of the manifold below:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...18_6Medium.gif
and heres a diagram of the manifold cover that was nearly impossible to find! lol
also shows the bolts i needed to order for fitting :D
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...18_8Medium.gif
hehe my engine bay is gonna be screaming "euroR" lol
YAY! got my RBC intake manifold...
everything seems the same (fittings wise) except for what i think is the idle control solonoid? (anyone confirm) its a small vacuum line that comes out of the bottom of the plenum on the RBB manifold... and its not on the RBC... so ill just tap into the plenum myself :)
ill post pics and DIY once installed :p
On my EGK24A 50 degree VTC help alot to get the most out of it with KPRO + tuning.
I dont think its possible on Accord Euro :(
Well it's possible but not recommended.... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EG5
http://hondata.com/tuning_k24a2_tsx_engine.html
50 degree VTC is pushing it... valve to piston clearance is so so minimal!Quote:
Originally Posted by EG5
im thinking of drilling my cam gears out to 40-45degree VTC...
Take the risk Justin! :D Better not!
My R&D in conjunction with the ECU will be for reliability :)
You can get the RSX or DC5 intake cam gear for around USD 100 though, I bought mine from a seller in K20a.org.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
ive heard its way too dangerous running it tho... especially if you change rev limit to 8500 >...Quote:
Originally Posted by ALN
piston + valve = bad !!!
Technically, the VTC shouldn't use the full 50 degrees if the ECU sets it to engage to a max of 40. But then again, having a physical 40 degree limit is always better.
i guess you meant: shouldn't use the full 50 degreesQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
LOL! Yes, "shouldn't". Thanks. I'll fix my post. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
lol im just looking out for you buddy :pQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
INSTALL IS IN PROGRESS!!!
Already removed RBB manifold (what an absolute bitch that was!) now just popping down to the shops to get some unexpected parts! :(
will post updates as soon as finished :p
EDIT:
RBC intake installed, just finalising wiring loom, vacuum lines, coolant, and EVAP...
UPDATE: primed fuel pump, fuel started spraying all over the shop! f*cken fuel rail o-ring cracked :(
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...F1668Small.jpg
INSTALLED!!!
but not driveable atm... ill need to go to honda tomoz and get new fuel connecter o-ring :(
large snail vs. small child eater:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...F1625Small.jpg
Oh God Thats Super Sexy !!!!!!!!
looks very hot
sexy
can you please post some test drive report
nice job:thumbsup:
when are you install you valve and cams
I'm eagerly waiting for the test drive impressions! :thumbsup:
Good stuff! Let us know once you get the chance to drive it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
hopefully if honda have the part ill have her driving by tonight :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
that might be on hold for awhile now :( need to save up money again! headers cost more than id planned to be installed (had to purchase high flow cat aswell), plus im still awaiting new engine cover and my bodykit...Quote:
Originally Posted by fatfish
My EGK24A only rev to 7600rpm
50 degree VTC is save , it max out at 45 degrees on my KPRO.
hey guys... couldnt get replacement fuel line from honda till january :( so i had to make up a custom jobby for the meantime... started the engine tonight, no fuel spraying everywhere!!
First Impressions:
took 5-8secs to crank over, then a lil jumpy on idle at first...
sat on 1600rpm for a min or two...
as it got warmer dropped down to 1200, then rested on 900rpm for awhile...
at correct idle temp, runs on 700-750rpm (same as before)...
There is also a distinctively different exhaust note, its more "airy"
Test Drive:
Starting off slowly in 1st, changed at 4000 to 2nd, then 3500 into 3rd...
i noticed when drivng in a gear, then going to neutral, the revs drop quickly down to around 700, then bounce back up to 1400... it does this when going from anygear into neatral or when pushing in the clutch...
Luckily, that only did that for 5mins, then changed to only dropping down to 1100rpm when moving in neuatral, 1000rpm when u first stop, it then drops down and rests on 700-750rpm after sitting for awhile (same as before)
Driving WOT 1st gear, maybe slight loss in power below 3000, hard to tell... 1st gear 6-7000rpm only lasts a second, and let me tell you, when vtec engages, the engine roars! huge difference there, the CAI no longer grumbles with vtec, but screams...
2nd gear, maybe also slight loss in power, if not the same below 3000, between that and 4500 seems the same, but once above 4500rpm definate improvement, 5000 to redline goes very very quickly! once again, vtec smashes through the last bit of rev range...
3rd gear, much the same as 2nd, this is where i suppose jtune reflash with 5000 vtec engagement would make huge difference, this manifold really seems to love high revs :D
4th gear i didnt get to test fully :p, but up until 5000 she goes nicely... no lack in power as she pulls past 4500
I forgot i took this pic, it shows just how good modern day casting is, i cant see porting getting much more power (if any) off the k-series
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...1637Medium.jpg
Very nice mate! Thanks for posting your impressions so quick. :thumbsup:
It seems like the IM shifts the power from down low to high like a pod style CAI does. There's a bit of sacrifice in daily driveability to improve peak power. The Jtune mild reflash will lower VTEC slightly so it should improve things. I'm a bit concerned with the lumpy start up though. Things could change in a few days though as the ECU is still adjusting to the new setup. :)
This is an awesome mod. Well done for breaking new ground. Ill have to come for a run and listen to that vtec action!
hel yeah! lol ull be sooo jealous :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
car was perfect driving to work this morning, engine warmed up fine, and no jerkiness/bouncing of revs... all seems good...
coming home from work traction control kicked in when vtec hit in 2nd gear lol it was heaps funny :p
my manifold cover has shipped :D hopefully have it either monday or thursday/friday next week... then ill be able to show tony when he is down in canberra :thumbsup:
Yeah sounds good.It'll be interesting to check it all out when i'm down in Canberra.BTW,PM me your ph.number so i can contact you when i'm there.:wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
PM sent :D i sent you a msg too, so just msg me when your free to meet...Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
Manifold cover and mounting hardware arrived on Monday - i wasnt home to collect, so hopefully i can get it tomorrow! :D
weather permitting ill have pics of my complete "euroR" engine bay online tomorrow night :p
im sooooo excited! lol
EDIT:
delivery company tried to resend it to my house today, while i was at their depot trying to collect it! idiots! anyway, hopefully get it on monday! :(
Nice mod. I'm hoping to find an RBC manifold too. where did you get yours?
Any pics of the cover installed? and if you wanted one quicker or cheaper I could have found you one. I just got one for $30.
If I end up getting a PRC intake manifold, does anyone know what's involved in modifying the the water port?
give us an update, lol