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Not sure how this works as I've only been following Honda for a few months.. but last time I looked at the Honda website for sales figures, they clearly listed the Type R. In this month's announcement, the Type R figure is omitted completely.
More evidence of poor sales? :o
September 2007 Sales Announcement
January 2008 Sales Announcement
Nice find. Could be that they are selling slow and Honda don't want to advertise the fact (although they list the single digit S2k sales on there) or could be that someone forgot to copy and paste that extra row from the spreadsheet.
Honda say they sold 685 CTRs in 07:
07 Sales totals.
I'm not sure when did they start selling? July 07?
i feel the sales of CTR start picking up. looks more CTR on the road than last year.
Well the Integra R isn't even listed in their showroom!
Can you even buy these new anymore?
*Edit ok you're referring to the civic oops.
Let's not speculate here. I have VFACTS sales figures. I'll import them over shortly. Just because you've seen more on the road doesn't mean they're selling well. You'd expect to see more even if sales were poor. It's not as if they're going off the road at the same rate. It's figures would be nowhere near GTI or even WRX and R32.
Never believe a press releasee from a manufacturer. VFACTS collects it's figures from the motor registries. These figures seperate demos from retails too.
really for that kind of price ... there're plenty of better cars out there.
i remember talkn to a honda dealer n he was saying that only a limited number of ctr are allocated to australia per year
true, and limited number of CTR can keep its market value, also Honda consider CTR's target customer is limit as well.
I disagree. Of course, I'm certainly not buying the Honda spiel about being the fastest as being unimportant - The "R" is supposed to stand for racing and racing without being (or trying to be) the fastest is really not racing at all! - but despite this, the Type R for me, is near perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by joey99
I am coming from a Peugeot 206 GTi180 and from this base, the Type R offers a perfect (and reasonably priced) upgrade. The Type R offers a sizeable performance boost, allows me to retain the level of luxury and hopefully, will provide me with greatly improved reliability.
While looking around, only two cars in the segment stood out: The GOLF GTI and the Volvo C30. I'm not brand loyal and look at cars solely on what I want from them, which is why the XR5, Mazda 3 MPS and VXR all feel by the wayside very early on. Raw speed isn't at the top of my list.
On paper, the Golf GTI was hand down the best buy - still is - but my thoughts kept coming back to the Type R. I won't bother explaining it all in this thread but at the risk of sounding stupid; I bought the car with my heart, while my head was screaming otherwise.
Look forward to seeing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
Nothing wrong with an emotional connection to sway a buying decision. Cars, more than most other products, reflect something about ourselves and personality.
The Type-R did surprisingly well in Wheels Magazines Car of The Year award - despite it not being an award for performance cars. The reason is that some testers 'got it' (and loved it), while others simply complained about the firm ride (or whatever) compared to luxury sedans etc...
You don't buy a Type-R because it is the fastest or most comfortable, but because you love driving it amongst other feel good factors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baeshin
I think they planned for an about 100 per month.If the sales figures from July to end of December '07 are accurate then sales have been on target.
I would most likely expect Jan and Feb '08 to be weaker months for CTR sales.
That's good. not like FD, now u can see everywhere :thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by dyljoy
New vehicle sales for Jan-Feb were up 11% on Nov-Dec. Volkswagen, Honda and Mazda had record periods.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
100 per month is very, VERY weak. That's less than 1 per dealership. As a VW dealer we sell 5-7 GTIs per month.
And you wonder why Honda won't bring the FD2R into Australia.
Time's changed. Aussies want the total package, just look at Golf GTI.
Yeah. My understanding is that Honda Australia have been allocated 1200-1300 Type Rs per year, which fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
When I first looked into buying a Type R last year, dealers had one or two cars in stock - usually sold - and was often told that if I wanted one, I would have to wait till next months stock arrives. And that's what got me thinking: Six months later - ie: now - every dealer in Melbourne has at least three cars in stock.
While I look forward to the VFACTS data, I think its academic.
Out of interest, on Melbourne roads, I've seen a total of four Civic Type Rs since they were released. And maybe only a handful of older Type Rs.
I have found Type Rs to be pretty rare animals out in the wild - and I like that fine. :D
So if this is the case we can assume that some dealers go 3 months without selling FN2Rs??? Hornsby Honda have 3 in the showroom. The limited allocation spin is the oldest trick in the book. It is used to retain gross and make excuses if sales are low.Quote:
Originally Posted by moons
Oh I don't doubt it for a second - It's the physical quantity on show that has changed, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
NOW I know where you're coming from!I had my suspicions about you early on.A VW dealer well,well!.I was wondering why you would always put a negative spin on things concerning Honda,especially with CTRs.Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
It's good that you can sell a reasonable number of GTIs(and Golfs) because I don't believe VW really sells much else compared to the superior overall Honda sales in Australia;)
[QUOTE=fasthonda;1573774]A VW dealer well,well!.I was wondering why you would always put a negative spin on things concerning Honda,especially with CTRs.QUOTE]
I agree. I sense a lot of negative when CTR is on the topic. Shame on you Volkswagen.
[QUOTE=Double R;1573841]Shame on Volkswagen? It's one guy. And I'm a Honda owner. Here's some VFACTS from February for all the non believers.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
Month Year to Date Variance +/- % 2008 2007 2008 2007 MTH YTD
Small < $40K Volume Share Volume Share Volume Share Volume Share
Honda Civic 527 7.9% 567 9.2% 1,222 9.1% 1,156 9.2% -7.1% 5.7%
Volkswagen Golf 534 8.0% 321 5.2% 955 7.1% 663 5.3% 66.4% 44.0%
Subaru Impreza 450 6.8% 329 5.3% 875 6.5% 627 5.0% 36.8% 39.6%
Mitsubishi Lancer 449 6.8% 509 8.2% 907 6.8% 919 7.3% -11.8% -1.3%
Mazda3 907 13.7% 984 15.9% 1,844 13.8% 2,070 16.5% -7.8% -10.9%
Holden Astra 369 5.6% 563 9.1% 811 6.0% 1,306 10.4% -34.5% -37.9%
Toyota Corolla 1,655 24.9% 1,520 24.6% 3,232 24.1% 2,866 22.9% 8.9% 12.8%
That includes GTI and CTR. I'm putting a negative spin on the FN2R only. I'm entitled to think it's an overweight torqueless ugly duckling. I'm not the only one that thinks that way. Best Cars awards had the GTi winning "Best Sports Car Under $60k" 2 years in a row, only being beaten in 2007 by the R32. You can argue it till you're blue in the face. The FN2 CTR is a mere shadow of what it could've been.
I'm glad that you like it, but just like I bash the FN2R, you continue to belt out the FN2 > all others anthem.
[QUOTE=m0nty ITR;1573855]Any chance of a breakdown of GTI vs CTR as that would make interesting reading! I've seen more Golf GTIs than any other Hot Hatch around town - Hell, I've even got one in the driveway. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Double R
It's my GFs car - before anyone starts! :p
Lets the fight begins !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nah. I'm over it. After all I hate Honda apparentely. :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by dmx
ah..come on... give us an entertaiment in this quiet weekend :DQuote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
lol....my head was screaming astra turbo only coz it was gonna be 5K cheaper (though its sexy to boot too), but my heart was screaming CTRQuote:
Originally Posted by moons
i looked at the 3dr gti and yer i reckon its a bloody good car but waaaaaay too pedestrian lookin IMHO :angel:
No fighting!
We'll let the VW salesman have the keyboard glory with his meticulously researched stats and "true to god honest opinions".
Heheh.. and cheaper it is!Quote:
Originally Posted by anu
The GTI on the other hand is more expensive and feels that way.
I guess you could say the GTI is a luxurious car that goes quick, whereas the R is a car that goes quick and has some luxury to it.
Waiting for Monty to start sledging the CTR......Quote:
Originally Posted by moons
Oh and by the way I love GTI's.
I have no problem with people on this forum being sales representatives for other brands.
To anyone who consistently "bags" and tries to undermine peoples ownership/enjoyment of their Honda (whether they own a Type R or any other Honda)don't be suprised if you are taken to task on the matter.
By the way,I test drove the GTI before I purchased the CTR and I really like it.After some consideration I chose the CTR-I won't go into the reasons why and yes,the GTI has won awards blah!,blah!blah! and so has the CTR!
Remember however,that it took VW almost 20 years before it got back on track with the MKV GTI.What is going to happen if the next generations are not as class leading,are the VW fans again going to jump ship?
Not every car manufacturer will consistently churn out models that will be to the liking of everyone,including enthuasists.
The choice is up to he individual whether he or she stays with a particular brand or not.
What has 20 years before it got back on track has got to deal with whats the better car now.
Even though I love my Honda's more than any other cars.
I still admit the FN2R is a terrible car.
If I had a choice between the Gti and FN2R, I would take the Gti
hahah i'll pick none... dont like both :p well but H badge attract me better than the 'Bettle' badge :p
You do know I own a DC5R yes? I'm not trying to undermine your enjoyment. I just think the car is rubbish. I'm glad you enjoy the car as I said before.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
And Double R you fail at troll bait.
Torsion Beam FTL !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
Can i ask what you think is rubbish about it??
Personally I find the new ctr to be just as good if not better then the DC5R was, as an all round package that is.
It's far too heavy to begin with. It has gained over 150kgs from the DC5R. You can't get rid of alot of that. I should know after stripping my DC5R down for racing and getting just 80kgs out of the car. Thanks to the inherent lack of torque of the K20 the extra weight bogs the car down. Yes, I have driven one and I find it cumbersome in comparison to an EP3 or DC5. It doesn't have that nimble feel the red H once had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix
Reading up on tuning the car seems to be alot tougher too. The EP3/DC5 chassis was a blank canvas. Anything that needed to be addressed can be done quite easily. That was the beauty of it all. The tuning scene for the FN2 may advance but right now there are very few cost effective options for the car.
The styling, like all cars is a love or hate scenario. We'll never see eye to eye on this one but I think the car's proportions are all wrong. It's as if pedestrian rating was on top of the list and stuff everything else. In my opinion they've tried to adhere every common concept car design theory and make it work on one road car. The rear end is just far too busy and due to it's sloping butt it gives the car a fat backside stance. For a hatchback, it's just not right. It's as if they wanted a coupe to come from it all but they had to stay within the design rule for hatchbacks.
My 2c. I know you'll disagree. Have at it.
well cars are meant to be subjective...otherwise we'd all be driving the same darn thing .....and wat a borrrrrrrrrrrrrrring world that would be wouldnt it???? :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi
ps I LOVE IT :p
So to make it better than the DC5R.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix
Make it heavier.
Take off the independant sussy on the rear and replace it with cheap crappier Torsion beam.
Replace recaros in place with seats that dont auto adjust back to the same position you wanted just to remove things.
Remove LSD.
Get charged just to put type R badges and stickers?
Need I say more?
I wasn't going to bite.. but I was bored. :p
Still reasonable compared to other hot hatches - although I certainly will agree that they have all bulked up - to their detriment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi
Real driving on real roads = Bugger all difference. It does cut down on bragging rights when comparing car specs, though.Quote:
Take off the independant sussy on the rear and replace it with cheap crappier Torsion beam.
I'll kind of give you that one. Seats are great - I don't care what brand they are - but the auto adjust is annoying, granted. Of course, if this makes your list of problems with the car, I'd suggest its a little thin. :DQuote:
Replace recaros in place with seats that dont auto adjust back to the same position you wanted just to remove things.
Yes and No. See suspension.Quote:
Remove LSD.
Says something about the company, sure, but certainly not the car!Quote:
Get charged just to put type R badges and stickers?
And lets not forget there is at least a touch of "my car is now old hat" to all of these arguments. We've all been there and yes it sucks, but take heart knowing everyone returns there every few years.
I personally think the car is great and that's why I chose it over every other hatch in the 45k bracket - in fact, I wouldn't have bought a new car if it didn't exist.
If you want to talk about really poor sales though, take a look at that TRD Aurion - Who said a large front wheel drive performance car wouldn't sell?
:p
Everyone except Toyota Australia. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by moons
depends on the dealer...some chuck it in 4 free :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Chi
i was in the market for a 40k hot hatch. initially i was going to get a FN cos i fell in love at first sight. after a couple of test drives, i realised it's not what i wanted. in simple terms, it drives like a faster Jazz. it really lacks steering feel and the driving position is too high for me. i tested the GTI twice and it is a car that FN never was. good grunt and great drive so i placed an order for one.
however deep down i really want a Type R. i love the race car for the road feeling which FN and GTI never are. DC2R is great but it is really hard to find one in good con, so in the end i ordered a EP3.
in summary:
Fn is a real disapointment, GTI is great but not exactly what i want. EP3 is the real deal.... lol
You are all so brave for dishing out negatives about the CTR behind a monitor but I strongly doubt you would say half the things you say to a real owner in person.
Oh yes, of course, how can I forget, you are entitled to your own opinion (behind a keyboard).
Monty you're our hero. Where would we all be without your bravery?
And to all the DC2, DC5, EP3 and GTI fanboys, I'll leave my FN2 at home and meet you on the dragstrip with my CBR600RR.
It's still a Honda after all. Dare to sledge it?
the more you type the dumber you sound mate. since most of the cars you just listed are hondas now i just get the feeling you're trying to make youself feel better about your fn2r purchase. at the end of the day, if u enjoy the car, thats all that matters. mentioning bikes is just pointless...Quote:
Originally Posted by Double R
I don't need to try and feel better. I know it is better. In my honest opinion the DC2 is old and tacky, the DC5 is too boy racer with that oversized wing and the EP3 is just ugh butt ugly, a stretched out Jazz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie
Who cares if it's not as fast as XXX or not as good as XXX. If you want speed then get a bike (hence mentioning bikes). What difference is 0.XX seconds going to make? FN2 is the best all round package in that price range and you can't argue with that. Not trying to defend its honour, but merely putting in my rebuttal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double R
no ones talking bout how much faster the car is, but in fact how much quality and features it has lost compared to the previous models.
Fact is the FN2 is a terrible car, comapred to what Honda has offered before.
It prob is better than most around its price, but to Honda's standards , I think its crap.
Err..Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi
The FN2 has way more features than any other Type R I have ever looked at. Sure it's not all performance orientated, but remember the Type R is a daily driver as much as it is anything else!
In my opinion, all the previous models were lacking features which is why I never contemplated buying them!
It's interesting how opinion can be so divided! :D
No I dont disagree, i see where your coming from. Each to their own (especially with cars).Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
I have spent big amounts of time behind the wheel of both the new CTR and the DC5R.
As a package i find the DC5R is much better suited to a race track. Suspension etc...
I find the CTR much better as an all round hot hatch on day to day public roads.
My personal experience anyway.
As to whoever said about having to pay for badges. I have gotten 4 different dealer quotes on new CTR, all included badges/emblem and mats for under $40k driveaway.
is FN a Type R or a hot hatch?
i think it is fair to say it's not the best car for both.
it fails being a good type r becos it's been toned down. it's more cruiser than race car.
it arguably fails to become the hot hatch brench mark. the R26 and GTI are both better.
i think as pointed out b4, you buy a FN from your heart. i personally can't find any logic to buy a FN if u're looking for the full Type R treatment or the best of the hot hatches.
no car is perfect. at the end, it all depends on your prority. i want a low weight, raw race car for road feeling. hence i choose EP3. it's the only fullon JDM Type R you can buy here. FN is just eye-candy and GTI is too heavy as it's loaded with luxuaries.
I meant performance features, not creature comfort features lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by moons
Give me a break. You think I'd shut up if the discussion was in public? Surely you can tell from my posts that I call it how I see it. On or off the intarwebs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Double R
I like your logic :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Lee
Well if you want to be like that - Can i bring the CBR1000RR...Quote:
Originally Posted by Double R
Our superhero!Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
I'm done now. I feel like I'm arguing with Ralph Wiggum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Double R
Lol, your a ****wit mate, you defend your FN2R with your bike, good one tosser ;)
I think thats what everyone else here is thinking...Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadAngel
I just love some of you FN2R owners with your overblown E-WANGs...
Why don't you just admit it and say that your cars may look radical and nuts close to insane but moves slower (in every single direction possible) than its predecessor, its rivals and the DC5R? How the **** is the FN2R superior to the DC5R when it loses out to the EP3R?
Good logic... You wonder why some of you fellas get the crap bagged out of you...
Date, for a start.Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadAngel
Honestly, I can't believe how much you lot bicker over this. The car is fine. The other cars are too but they are old. Honda has moved on whether you like it or not.
GET OVER IT.
And anyway, not everyone thinks the DC5R and the EP3R are the greatest cars in the world either. You do, great - but I'm pretty sure they were never rated as the best cars in the segment even in their prime. And for the record I think they both suck - I don't care how fast they are or how upgradeable they are or how close to JDM spec they are.
It's all a matter of opinion and marketing. Ands anyone who believes in the "Type R" ethos is just that much more of a sucker - no matter what Type R they bought, save maybe the NSX-R.
See, speedy Civics/Integras/etc - hatches or no - are just pretend super-cars - sure, they're not even close - but for just a tiny moment, they make us commoners forget we will never see a black pony in our garage.
That, is what the Type R bullshit marketing ethos is.
And don't think that it was any different for the previous models!
:thumbdwn:
I don't care about Type R...
Date who gives a crap? I'm talking about the fundamentals... Has the new car improved on where the old one left off? NO! In fact, to almost everyone EXCEPT some of you ignorant FN2R owners, ITS GONE BACKWARDS!
So why don't you GET OVER IT, your new Honda is slower than the old ones, slower than its sister car. When did I say DC5R or EP3R was the greatest car in the world? Quote me man...
They suck how? Cause they're faster than your car? They come better equipped? Opinion and marketing blah blah blah... Get past the badge man, I'm not even talking about the bloody badge...
i thnk dc5r slower than type s , how can that happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadAngel
this thread arguing for nothing, better read more review on magazine
leave it to the expert.
I dunno, both about the same to me??? Why don't you ask the DC5R/DC5S owners and get into a debate with them about it :p
Stock vs stock? Not a chance round the track. R wins every time. LSDs are worth their weight in gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodaas
JDM. These poor pretenders with their farting tin cans sticking out the back worship JDM like a god. Now that is some clever marketing. While these kids pour every dollar they earn into their old, beaten down Honda's pretending to be the Drift King, the clever folks with JDM merchandise keep hearing "cha-ching". They spend thousands of dollars for a measly 5kw gain and strip their cars to the point where a 90's Camry looks more luxurious. Now that, my friends, are a million pieces of crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by moons
Poor baby, while those confused people think they're getting JDM, thats their problem.
You still not able to come up with anything can you?
What's the point? If the owner is happy with their own car, be it a rust bucket or a spaceship with neons, let them be....
Have you got one? 1000 would be victorious in the top end but not as nimble as a 600 around the track. I'm upgrading to the K8 Gixer 1000 soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix
I see what you did there. Take on a build like mine and you'll have a newfound respect for modding a car. We've stripped the car back to a shell and will rebuild the entire car for circuit use only. At which point did I become a JDM fanboy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Double R
You really do have nothing if you've resorted to making fun of my car in my profile.
Or do you mean a JDM style Tsukuba Time Attack?Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nty ITR
There is a Wakefield trackday on easter saturday.Why don't we all have a go at the track? I'll bring my family car.
I'd love to. Chi said I can take his car. Good friend huh? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Please give up now. It's just getting sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Double R
horses for courses.
this thread is a joke.
138 civic type rs? that sounds pretty rediculous.. do you think if they bought the fd2r instead of the fn2r, would u think their would be more sales of the type r? i think for the price range the fn2r can be easily out performed by the other competitors.. like the gti, megane sports, wrx?
We have a MY08 CTR and a MY08 GTI in the garage..
Sure, the GTI (with DSG) is notably easier to drive fast (and therefore a fester car) - but I wouldn't swap my Type R for my GFs GTI for anything. The Type R is way more fun - unless going fast in and of itself is what you call fun.
See, you actually have to make the CTR go quick - keeping the revs right, blipping the accelerator, etc. When I drive the CTR I feel like I'm driving a racing car. The Golf feels like I'm just riding it. Sure I'm riding fast but so what.
Where the Type R errs on the side of racing, the Golf errs to the side of shopping runs. And it shows.
LOL....thatz the reason why i wouldnt drive my gf's GTI as well..:pQuote:
Originally Posted by moons