HELP PLS ... B16 or B18?

Ok guys, dont know if this is the right place to post this but i'll give it a go anyways.. :thumbsup:

Ok I wanted to ask for peoples opinion pls....

My situation at the moment is that I want to do a conversion on my EG3.

My two options are B16a2 or a B18C. :honda:

I have the budget for either one.... but im stuck on making my my decision!?!

I only do daily driving and i dont really plan to mod hard out on the engine I do decide to put in.

So my question to you guys is, what would you do in my situation??

And please be straight up.,... not just say B18C because its faster..:eek:

No haters pls... just really want some feedback..

Thanks in advance! :wave:

B18c more torque for daily driving

yeh I know that... hahaha

i like the sounds of b16's but compared to my b18c majority of people here will say b18c.

search too. alotta ppl have asked the same thing, and in the same position as you..

anyways i'd go b18c. if u get the b16a, in time u'll want more power, and wanna get the b18c, thinking you should have got that first. b16a and b18c fine for both daily driving, your not driving some high performance turbo car or anything so just relax, just an EG. its what you want outta the car, since you said you know.

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yeh I know that... hahaha

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... then your decision shouldn't be that hard. jsut get the b18c. but its your car, b18c is more expensive for a reason

like i have an EG, and if it was in your position, i'd go b18c, worth it more at the end, no regrets (like you wouldn't wanna down grade in power) n its not like ur gunna head massive gains in just changing in the engines..

B18c7

Cheers for the reply! :wave::thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by MWAKU

search too. alotta ppl have asked the same thing, and in the same position as you..

anyways i'd go b18c. if u get the b16a, in time u'll want more power, and wanna get the b18c, thinking you should have got that first. b16a and b18c fine for both daily driving, your not driving some high performance turbo car or anything so just relax, just an EG. its what you want outta the car, since you said you know. ... then your decision shouldn't be that hard. jsut get the b18c. but its your car, who care about other ppls opinions..

like i have an EG, and if it was in your position, i'd go b18c, worth it more at the end, no regrets (like you wouldn't wanna down grade in power) n its not like ur gunna head massive gains in just changing in the engines..

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both engines will pretty much use the same amount of petrol as well

b18, more power. has more capacity to improve

lol go get the mugen engine vroom vroom vtec mugen tuned! lol

EG3..hence breeze correct?
When you say that you've budgeted for either, have you considered all the extra costs involved? The whole conversion can actually cost alot more than you think.

First of all, how much have you set aside for an engine? B16A halfcuts can cost anywhere between 2,000 - 4,000 depending on K's and condition. B18C will be start around the 4,000 mark i'm guessing? Then B18C type R motor will blow away 6,000 minimum. Also if you can't source it locally, may have to find one interstate. Hence shipping costs?

Then you'll have to worry about the process of converting the single carb to EFI. Parts wise it isn't too bad, just need a fuel pump, fuel tank and 3 fuel lines as carb models doesn't have the return line. Budget around 400 bucks for that. From my understanding an OBD0 to OBD1 harness is required as well? Set aside just a tad under 200 for that.

What about other factors such as rebuilds? You might wanna replace the gaskets on the head and block since you cannot be 100% sure on the history of the motor. E.G. how long it's been in the wreckers for or how long its been in someone's backyard. Whether moist or water has seeped through into the engine?

Should also replace timing belt while you're at it, which is another 100 bucks for the parts and a couple more hundred for labour. Replacing all your fluids is vital as well. Save yourself the hassle by doing it right the first time. As i said, you don't know how long it's been laying around for and hence you'll want to flush the motor and start clean with new engine oil, brake fluid, clutch fluid, transmission oil, power steering fluid, the lot!

If you're not doing all this yourself, then labour will be a whole lot more as well..Not sure on rates, but I think it'll be well over 1,000 with all that done.

All the stuff mentioned to be replaced is not essential, but to be honest, why would you stooge yourself by saving a couple of hundred bucks to begin with, then end up needing to replace a timing belt later on down the track causing more labour and hence more costs.

I'm looking at a B16A conversion myself and i've taken some of these factors into consideration, as a result my conversion should near 4,500. I would imagine a B18C conversion costing somewhere around 6k-7k.

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B18C is better, lot more torque. However if you wanna mod the B16A down the road, results won't disappoint either. You mentioned that you don't wanna hardcore mod out the engine. However, just for some info, a B16A all motor rebuild by Toda apparently gives 130kw+ at the wheels, which is approximately an extra 30kw over a stock integra type R. Once again $$$ is obviously involved...Lots of it. Whereas for light mods, you'll still get a pretty quick B16A on the streets. In conclusion, B16A gets my vote.

ive got a b16a in my eg, i believe its a fun revvy car, which has heaps of potential, though i do agree it does lack quite alot of torque. But it opens doors to FI/ or evn going b20a later on down the rd. Its just what u want out of the door.

Great reply buddy..

Budget wise,,, is not really a major problem... I have sufficient funds to the project..

If i didnt, I wouldnt of considered it in the first place.

I know of all the things that need to be done..

I think my question really is it worth getting a B18 for the extra cash over a B16?

Does that sort of make sense?? sorry i dont know if im making any sense..

But thanks for the really informative reply...:thumbsup:

So ur planning on doing one too??

Pat,

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Originally Posted by MM89

EG3..hence breeze correct?
When you say that you've budgeted for either, have you considered all the extra costs involved? The whole conversion can actually cost alot more than you think.

First of all, how much have you set aside for an engine? B16A halfcuts can cost anywhere between 2,000 - 4,000 depending on K's and condition. B18C will be start around the 4,000 mark i'm guessing? Then B18C type R motor will blow away 6,000 minimum. Also if you can't source it locally, may have to find one interstate. Hence shipping costs?

Then you'll have to worry about the process of converting the single carb to EFI. Parts wise it isn't too bad, just need a fuel pump, fuel tank and 3 fuel lines as carb models doesn't have the return line. Budget around 400 bucks for that. From my understanding an OBD0 to OBD1 harness is required as well? Set aside just a tad under 200 for that.

What about other factors such as rebuilds? You might wanna replace the gaskets on the head and block since you cannot be 100% sure on the history of the motor. E.G. how long it's been in the wreckers for or how long its been in someone's backyard. Whether moist or water has seeped through into the engine?

Should also replace timing belt while you're at it, which is another 100 bucks for the parts and a couple more hundred for labour. Replacing all your fluids is vital as well. Save yourself the hassle by doing it right the first time. As i said, you don't know how long it's been laying around for and hence you'll want to flush the motor and start clean with new engine oil, brake fluid, clutch fluid, transmission oil, power steering fluid, the lot!

If you're not doing all this yourself, then labour will be a whole lot more as well..Not sure on rates, but I think it'll be well over 1,000 with all that done.

All the stuff mentioned to be replaced is not essential, but to be honest, why would you stooge yourself by saving a couple of hundred bucks to begin with, then end up needing to replace a timing belt later on down the track causing more labour and hence more costs.

I'm looking at a B16A conversion myself and i've taken some of these factors into consideration, as a result my conversion should near 4,500.

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well what state u from???

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Originally Posted by EG3B16

Great reply buddy..

Budget wise,,, is not really a major problem... I have sufficient funds to the project..

If i didnt, I wouldnt of considered it in the first place.

I know of all the things that need to be done..

I think my question really is it worth getting a B18 for the extra cash over a B16?

Does that sort of make sense?? sorry i dont know if im making any sense..

But thanks for the really informative reply...:thumbsup:

So ur planning on doing one too??

Pat,

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Judging by your nick I think you already know what you want

If money aint a thing for you, just go for the B18C7.
Spend that extra money so you know you wont look back.

take it like this, i went b16a cause i wanted to also go legit. Without engineers.

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Originally Posted by EG3B16

Great reply buddy..

Budget wise,,, is not really a major problem... I have sufficient funds to the project..

If i didnt, I wouldnt of considered it in the first place.

I know of all the things that need to be done..

I think my question really is it worth getting a B18 for the extra cash over a B16?

Does that sort of make sense?? sorry i dont know if im making any sense..

But thanks for the really informative reply...:thumbsup:

So ur planning on doing one too??

Pat,

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yeah i am, B16A eventually getting an all motor rebuild. so will have to see if that toda rebuild really gives 130kw+ at the wheels, or even better a stroked B16A to 1.8L giving some stupid power figure of like 150kw at the wheels !?

I think my question really is it worth getting a B18 for the extra cash over a B16?

This you really have to ask yourself. Everyone has different values. For example, I think a B16A is sufficient because you won't use all that power on the road anyway, which is where the car is going to spend most of its time on anyway. Talking about driving to the speed limit here and in a sensible manner, you would only be able to go 110km/h max on any Victorian road, which i believe is the state limit.

Down low, from idle to around 3,000rpm or so both motors are quite similar? Correct me if i'm wrong. Then moving on to track work; if you take it on to the track, even then you won't be able to use all that power. Plus, i personally think it's more rewarding to drive a smaller B16A harder than a more powerful B18C.

I doubt you would be disappointed with either engine as you're getting a significant gain from 55kw > 118kw or 125kw, that's obviously more than DOUBLE your power, which in modifying terms is quite alot.

Something I forgot to mention in the last post was the conversion of other parts like brakes and suspension while you're at it, but as you said, you already know what you need.

Yeh i know what you mean about legalities! And thats exactly what im contimplating on :D

I was originally going to go B16 and just mod that..

Im in NSW so theres no difference in speed limit.. And im not exactly going to track the car anyways..

Very informative feedback. Thanks :thumbsup:

Where bouts are you from?

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Originally Posted by MM89

yeah i am, B16A eventually getting an all motor rebuild. so will have to see if that toda rebuild really gives 130kw+ at the wheels, or even better a stroked B16A to 1.8L giving some stupid power figure of like 150kw at the wheels !?

I think my question really is it worth getting a B18 for the extra cash over a B16?

This you really have to ask yourself. Everyone has different values. For example, I think a B16A is sufficient because you won't use all that power on the road anyway, which is where the car is going to spend most of its time on anyway. Talking about driving to the speed limit here and in a sensible manner, you would only be able to go 110km/h max on any Victorian road, which i believe is the state limit.

Down low, from idle to around 3,000rpm or so both motors are quite similar? Correct me if i'm wrong. Then moving on to track work; if you take it on to the track, even then you won't be able to use all that power. Plus, i personally think it's more rewarding to drive a smaller B16A harder than a more powerful B18C.

I doubt you would be disappointed with either engine as you're getting a significant gain from 55kw > 118kw or 125kw, that's obviously more than DOUBLE your power, which in modifying terms is quite alot.

Something I forgot to mention in the last post was the conversion of other parts like brakes and suspension while you're at it, but as you said, you already know what you need.

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Are you happy with the B16?

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Originally Posted by iwantvtec

take it like this, i went b16a cause i wanted to also go legit. Without engineers.

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yeah i am, B16A eventually getting an all motor rebuild. so will have to see if that toda rebuild really gives 130kw+ at the wheels, or even better a stroked B16A to 1.8L giving some stupid power figure of like 150kw at the wheels !?

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take it like this man i went from a gli (lousy 62 kw) to a b16a 84kw dats like a 30% power gain man, like thats alot.

Toda cams give 130 atw? really i nva knew. LOL do u also get 150 atw if u stroke ur b16?

Enough to have fun in right? :thumbsup::p

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Originally Posted by iwantvtec

take it like this man i went from a gli (lousy 62 kw) to a b16a 84kw dats like a 30% power gain man, like thats alot.

Toda cams give 130 atw? really i nva knew. LOL do u also get 150 atw if u stroke ur b16?

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Originally Posted by EG3B16

Yeh i know what you mean about legalities! And thats exactly what im contimplating on :D

I was originally going to go B16 and just mod that..

Im in NSW so theres no difference in speed limit.. And im not exactly going to track the car anyways..

Very informative feedback. Thanks :thumbsup:

Where bouts are you from?

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i'm from melb cuz

you'll get around 95kw atfw quite easily with a couple of mods on the B16A which is plenty for street use (i reckon).

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Originally Posted by iwantvtec

take it like this man i went from a gli (lousy 62 kw) to a b16a 84kw dats like a 30% power gain man, like thats alot.

Toda cams give 130 atw? really i nva knew. LOL do u also get 150 atw if u stroke ur b16?

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haha, if toda cams give me a straight 130kw atw, i would buy em straight away without thinking! LOL! it's not as easy as that..The list does goes on!
As i mentioned before, it's an all motor rebuild, so you're pretty much changing everything..from memory, this 130kw rebuild consists of cams, pulleys, timing belt, piston, gaskets, valve springs, valve guides, rods, port n polish the LOT! i don't know of exact pricing, but i would say 5k easily just for this rebuild of the B16A...but if you're not tracking the car, then no point really using such a good setup on the road, just putting it to waste. Afterall, you'd have a power to weight ratio close to 160kw per tonne.

with 5 k i would do a b20 conversion yo my b16. that'll easily put between 120-130.

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Enough to have fun in right?

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FK YER! especially wen they see ur GL sticker n dey think ur carby LOLOLO~

toda kit will cost far more then 5 grand... trust me... and a stock b20 on a stock b16a head will not give you a 120-130kw atw...

if you ask me id say go with a b16a2 and do some light mods like extractors, exhaust,intake with the left over money you have instead of doing a b18c2 conversion.... however id say b18c7 type r conversion in stock form will out perform both of them by far... go with a b18c7 if you can afford it.... if not go with a lightly modded b16a2..

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Originally Posted by iwantvtec

take it like this man i went from a gli (lousy 62 kw) to a b16a 84kw dats like a 30% power gain man, like thats alot.

Toda cams give 130 atw? really i nva knew. LOL do u also get 150 atw if u stroke ur b16?

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why stroke it when u can just get hte b18

i dont get it

I have both, and I'm more impressed with what the B16A can achieve given a 200cc displacement deficit which is a lot for a 1600cc engine.

My B16A2 ( just an aust spec ex EG2) is modded with typeR cams, cai, type R throttle body, light flywheel and IM with crome ECU tuned by DynoDave ( 107.7kw atw ) in my EG, and my B18c7 in my dc2r which is totally stock bar a k&N filter. I also have a stock B16A in my ED9 CRX which suits the light crx very well.

In the B16A with 2 passengers or one heavy passenger ie 100kg you can really feel the dropoff in performance whereas in the B18C it has a much less pronunced effect. Also you can get away being in the wrong gear at low revs and still have some acceleration whereas in a B16A in the same scenerio you wont have any.

It never ceases to amaze me a 1600cc engine can punch so much above its weight and it revs so well ( oversquared design vs B18C underaquared design might have something to do with it ). Driving the totally stock and factory tuned B18C7 in the dc2r seems ho hum and refined after driving my tuned B16A EG even though it has fair bit more torque and little more power. Obviously it's not fair to compare a tuned engine with light flywheel with a stock setup in a heavier car; hence I cant wait to install the Toda B cams, 68mm TB, exedy flywheel, CAI, Toda headers and mugen cat back on our b18c7 and get it tuned to see what that feels like. Will keep you guys posted when that happens, still awaiting the toda cat to arrive before the mods get underway.

As for fuel consumption I typically get 7.2-7.3L/100km for my b16a crx, 7.5-8.2L/100km for my d/dave tuned B16A EG and 9.2-9.5L/100km for our B18c7 dc2r.

At the end it's what you are willing to spend and what will you be contend with. If you have the budget to get either and prep the motor to the same std when you do the conversion ( ie renew water pump, belts, seals and clutch ) then get the B18C. If on the other hand it's between prepping a B16A and dropping in a B18C as is and hope for the best then you'll be better off doing the B16a properly with a peace of mind in the long run.

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Originally Posted by MM89

yeah i am, B16A eventually getting an all motor rebuild. so will have to see if that toda rebuild really gives 130kw+ at the wheels, or even better a stroked B16A to 1.8L giving some stupid power figure of like 150kw at the wheels !?

I think my question really is it worth getting a B18 for the extra cash over a B16?

This you really have to ask yourself. Everyone has different values. For example, I think a B16A is sufficient because you won't use all that power on the road anyway, which is where the car is going to spend most of its time on anyway. Talking about driving to the speed limit here and in a sensible manner, you would only be able to go 110km/h max on any Victorian road, which i believe is the state limit.

Down low, from idle to around 3,000rpm or so both motors are quite similar? Correct me if I'm wrong. Then moving on to track work; if you take it on to the track, even then you won't be able to use all that power. Plus, i personally think it's more rewarding to drive a smaller B16A harder than a more powerful B18C.

I doubt you would be disappointed with either engine as you're getting a significant gain from 55kw > 118kw or 125kw, that's obviously more than DOUBLE your power, which in modifying terms is quite a lot.

Something I forgot to mention in the last post was the conversion of other parts like brakes and suspension while you're at it, but as you said, you already know what you need.

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after owning a DC2 i am considering a EK/EG b16a2 setup

i found the B18c too hard to have fun with on the streets, for example the car would just be starting to warm up and i would go to give it a nice vtec kik and i would have to stop straight away because of speed limits + corners + bends etc and not wanting to either be pulled over or injured/dead (already spent 6 months in a wheelchair because some idiot hit me in the teg)

after already having the b18c i want something different, a bit more of a challenge, i think a motor with a smaller power output and just as much revs would be a fun project, I/H/E and a light tune with some brake and handling upgrades and i think i will have a nice little street car to get to work and something i can have fun with on a track day as well, i would like to do time trials and a hill climb if i ever get the oportunity

the other appealing thing with the B16a2 vs the B18c is that it is cheaper and that is money i can put into making sure it gets done properly... fluids, seals, belts, brakes, electrics, CTR parts etc etc and the point of the conversion/build for me is the project itself... not getting the car to do stupid figures... i just want something to do lol

Geee i know man. Its fun hittinh a corner on second, going 7k revs so FUn! i would imagine it'll b scary shit on a b18c cause of the more power output.

b16a and b18c are both great engines..

but if u spent the savings u saved from buying the b18c and mod the b16a.. u will enjoy the car more.. be it suspension wise or breathing mods..

but b18c is still the ultimate answer for all round performance.. b16a simply lacks torque.. on a uphill battle after cornering at 40+km/hr on 2nd gear.. and waiting a million years for the vtec to kick in is not enjoyable for daily driving..

b18c gets the vote.. and modding the b18c with I/h/e on a civic = stock wrx killer.. seen it and witnessed it..

b16 for loud cross over VTEC!

erm.. b18c n b16a vtec got diff sound? lol.. seriously??

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Originally Posted by VT1-R

erm.. b18c n b16a vtec got diff sound? lol.. seriously??

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Yes it's quite a noticeable difference.... B16a has a much more distinct crossover while the B18c is much more subtle.



B20VTEC > B18c > B16a

if you plan on dropping in the motor and forgetting about it, go b18
if you're gonna boost then just go b16 because its generally cheaper which gives you more to spend on either strengthening it up for boost or for better boost goodies

regarding vtak noise i can't really tell the difference between my old b16a2 and my b18c7
if anything, the b18's a tiny bit louder

B18cR sounds very similar to B16a, it all comes down to the intake manifold design