Your B16A dyno results?

[Civic Type R]

LOL.

No im fine mate and i apologise if you think ive added to the arguement. But the obvious point is that we're having another useless arguement comparing different dyno machines.

For the record:

B16A2 with full I.H.E got 125HP@wheels - 14.8 1/4 mile
B18cR with full I.H.E got 149.5HP@wheels - 14.2 1/4 mile
same car, same machine

Now those figures are pretty much true to form, but many of us over here remember i got a crazy reading of 152.6HP@wheels with my stock B16A2 a few years ago. It didnt make any sense but thats what the dyno printed

[barefootbonzai]

B16A2 - T3/4 Turbo Charged (6.5psi) - Hondata Tunned
APC in Brisbane
125.5kw@wheels

[ProECU]

I dont think its useless.
It's good to flush out these arguments and educate everyone involved (yes including myself).

I dont tend to look too much at peak power figures, but more the manner in which they are obtained. This is key to explaining variances & identifying combinations that work.

This is why I tend to question so much.
Forgive those who have a thirst for knowledge & question the given, dont shoot them!

[Civic Type R]

Yes

As I said I wasnt having a go at you and I myself like to see what mods get power etc. Just from what i was reading, the poor dude living in USA was trying his best to provide as much info as he could and he was still being put up to scrutiny.

Anyway, I agree with you regarding this "I dont tend to look too much at peak power figures, but more the manner in which they are obtained. This is key to explaining variances & identifying combinations that work." message.

Have a look at the stock ECU vs JDM ITR ecu and Mugen ECU comparison dyno chart i posted some 4 weeks ago, I forgot the thread. All 3 ECU's got the same top end power but their power curves were vastly different.

[ProECU]

Since we're getting into the Boost power figures....

stock B16, T3 turbo .48AR, MP manifold, stock exhaust 4.5psi, ProECU Tuned = 151kW (200WHP)
stock B16, GT28, AVO Log Manifold, Custom exhaust, 6.5psi , ProECU Tuned = 136kW (181HP)

... and some more NA tunes
stock B16 + ITR Cams, NA, ProECU Tuned, 105kW (140HP)
stock B16 , ProECU Tuned = 109kW (145HP)

[Bowzer]

Wow, I came up with 11.43 using that calculator a month ago....11.6? I'll do it again. I did use a stock head gasket, and aftermarket stock copy pr3 pistons. They may have been Wiseco's. Stock they make 81, 81.5, and 82mm I was told. (at least in the ctr pistons, which If I have to do any block work again I will be upgrading too.

What piston to deck height did you use. With the b16 I got the 11.64, and with the b18 I got 11.32
I have the b16a2 head so i guess it is 11.64 compression! (btw I've have this site on my favorites for ever, It's very handy)

I got 11.6 by changing the bore size from 81mm to 82mm otherwise you be calculating the CR for a 81mm bore... (B18C1/C5 Block in the options)
As for a 82mm oversize I have not yet come across a OEM Honda one in that size

[Illegal]

... and some more NA tunes
stock B16 + ITR Cams, NA, ProECU Tuned, 105kW (140HP)
stock B16 , ProECU Tuned = 109kW (145HP)

So the tune with the itr cams is lower overall than just stock? Weird. I guess one motor can just start out stronger than another from the factory, at least a bit. Maybe one was broken in or taken care of better, or maybe the timing is different on one, or compression, or is the tuning better on one than the other?

[SPEEDCORE]

... and some more NA tunes
stock B16 + ITR Cams, NA, ProECU Tuned, 105kW (140HP)
stock B16 , ProECU Tuned = 109kW (145HP)

Any chance of charts? I'm interested at seeing the curves in these.

Also glad you ladies have got over your rags so quickly.

[ProECU]

So the tune with the itr cams is lower overall than just stock? Weird.

Why does this suprise you?
Take a look at relative piston speeds (engine geometry) between B16 & B18C versus cam lift/duration of these motors and you'll understand why.

As for graphs, i'll post some up when I get a chance

[Illegal]

ANYONE I know with a cam upgrade on a b16, if they are not overcamming the engine, actually gained horsepower. A set of itr cams is an upgrade, but bassed on your results it is a waste of money. I GAINED hp when I did the itr cams, so thats why I'm confused. My dyno sheets directly show the oposite.

I understand that the cam duration is different, thats the point of why the itr cams are an upgrade, not something that should slow the motor down. It looks like a dyno of a type-r putting stock b16 cams in and taking out the good ones! Just my opinion. In 7 years I've never seen or heard of that. I also called www.inlinepro.com and they were as confused as me over the results. EVERY car they have dynoed has shown an improvement with an uopgraded cam, unless the customer installed a cam that was to large for the compression and displacement to actually use that cam.

[ProECU]

Mate you're missing the point.

R cams did make more power over stock. 96kw->105kw
but tuned stock cams made MORE power.

I dont care what inline pro say, and you need to define WHY R cams are an upgrade in a B16. Different doesn not equal Upgrade. That is not a logical statement.

Yes R cams in a B16 IS a waste of money

[Illegal]

With no fuel and not the right timming the r cam would be a waste. Also what was your air/fuel ratio's. What was the total ignition timing on the one with the r cam. I AM NOT trying to be a dick, or undermine you in any way, or give you a hard time, or start a fight, I'm just trying to understand why everything your saying goes against everything I've learned by some of the top engine builders andfastest fwd street cars in the country.

*edit* I posted this up on a few other forums, and everyone has been getting a big laugh so far. (whole subject/thread). Everyone asked me to tell you in the nicest possible way to stop tuning please.