Just how rare are AP2's?

**ludecrs** · 07-02-2009 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by drsilliez

whats VGS?

Very Gay Steering

**JAP-S2K** · 07-02-2009 06:28 PM

I agree with conan! Seriously if you drove a newer model and an older one, you wouldn't pick the difference, trust me, i've driven plenty of new ones and old ones. I laugh when i hear people tell how the newer models feel completly different to the old ones. Funny how costmetics make people think there driving something different, but the only effective change is a rear caddle(only very slight), so technically it would only be noticable if you drove it really hard on a race track. To all those that disagree, please claim why??? as nobody else worldwide can. I'm not saying '04 are bad, there not, there a great car, it's all cosmetic! Ask any Honda Tech, ask anyone who has tracked both models, good luck spotting any difference till you drive an '06+(with VSA), they seem slower, but there probably no different, as we found no advantage, in any lap times. As a matter of fact if the old models ran the same rim size and tire size as the AP2 models they were fractionly slower and thats with a professional driver, let alone a weekend warrior.

**JAP-S2K** · 07-02-2009 06:32 PM

HA HA! Nice one ludecrs! VGS never made it better, did it?

**h17am** · 09-02-2009 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by JAP-S2K

it would only be noticable if you drove it really hard on a race track. To all those that disagree, please claim why??? as nobody else worldwide can.

I disagree.
Driving a newer model S2000 is very noticable when comparing it with a older model. Apart from the cosmetics you mentioned, you cannot escape the fact that the older S2000s must have more wear and tear. This affects the general enjoyment of the car markedly. Note I said general enjoyment and not its performance, although a lot of things also affect its performance.

My brother has an 01 S2000. A friend of mine has an 02 S2000. I have an 07 S2000.
And some of the things that detracts from the general enjoyment of an older S2000:
1. Roof doesn't latch close as tight causing lots of wind noise at speed.
2. Rattles and squeaks due to loose bolts / fasteners.
3. Clutch judder and vibrations.
4. Clutch plate is worn.
5. Center console compartment is smaller.
6. Door trim pocket is useless.
7. Seat foam sagging.
8. Rear plastic window fogging up to the point you can't see anything out of.
9. Stereo / speakers not as good.
10. Worn / old brake pads.
11. Less power.
12. Worn suspension, suspension bushings.
13. Worn tires.
14. Worn / cracked silicone hoses.
etc etc etc.

As before, all of these things can be modified / replaced. But modifying costs money, time and headaches.

Originally Posted by JAP-S2K

As a matter of fact if the old models ran the same rim size and tire size as the AP2 models they were fractionly slower and thats with a professional driver, let alone a weekend warrior.

BMI did this test and they got a slower lap time with the early model S2000 compared with a new (back then) 2004 model.

The AP1 models were slower than the AP2 only fractionally BECAUSE OF the professional driver. With a weekend warrior that's nowhere near as good, the gap would be even larger IMO...

**ludecrs** · 09-02-2009 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by h17am

I disagree.
Driving a newer model S2000 is very noticable when comparing it with a older model. Apart from the cosmetics you mentioned, you cannot escape the fact that the older S2000s must have more wear and tear. This affects the general enjoyment of the car markedly. Note I said general enjoyment and not its performance, although a lot of things also affect its performance.

My brother has an 01 S2000. A friend of mine has an 02 S2000. I have an 07 S2000.
And some of the things that detracts from the general enjoyment of an older S2000:
1. Roof doesn't latch close as tight causing lots of wind noise at speed.
2. Rattles and squeaks due to loose bolts / fasteners.
3. Clutch judder and vibrations.
4. Clutch plate is worn.
5. Center console compartment is smaller.
6. Door trim pocket is useless.
7. Seat foam sagging.
8. Rear plastic window fogging up to the point you can't see anything out of.
9. Stereo / speakers not as good.
10. Worn / old brake pads.
11. Less power.
12. Worn suspension, suspension bushings.
13. Worn tires.
14. Worn / cracked silicone hoses.
etc etc etc.

And I could argue that a Ferrari F550 Barchetta has the same issues as the F575 Superamerica, because nearly everything you mentioned is age variable.

**h17am** · 09-02-2009 07:46 PM

well the original poster was asking whether to get an early model s2000 or save more for a newer one...

**andrew84tran** · 11-07-2013 06:56 PM

4 years on and finding a white ap2 stock for a reasonable price is as hard as ever.

**phuongvu88** · 11-07-2013 07:04 PM

a year or so ago, a seller here sold their 05 or 07 for ~$50k
white, very clean, sold very quickly

**andrew84tran** · 11-07-2013 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by phuongvu88

a year or so ago, a seller here sold their 05 or 07 for ~$50k
white, very clean, sold very quickly

i remember that. i believe it had about 17000km on it, sold for about $52-54k. I've ended up buying an 86 GTS for 40k driveaway so I couldn't justify the price of that s2k. But my dream car is still a white stock ap2, and who knows what I'll do once i do find it.