dyno tuning

[ah789454]

this might seem as a dumb question but here goes.

you can only dyno tune your car if you have a aftermarket ecu, right??

and how much should it cost ruffly??

[BLKCRX]

Correct you need a programmable ECU something that supports retime programming is very nice, for you to be able to tune your Honda above and beyond what Honda set as factory.

You could theoretically change / adjust cam gears on a dyno also but that’s kinda stupid changing cam gear angles and not adjusting the fuel to go with the settings.

Cost depends on which car you have, which stock ECU / wiring set you have ie OBD1 or OBD2 normally obd2 wiring (post 97 honda’s ) are more expensive.

Basic piggy back ECU’s such as AFC’s e-Manage link all the very low end devices which don’t normally handle things like vtec / ignition or cold starts correctly are between 600 and 1500 These devices sux because over time your stock eca makes corrections and auto adjusts the settings back to stock… which is why you will forever be dyno tuning your car.. good for workshops because you have to keep paying them retuning fee’s !! eheh

Full tuneable ECU’s that don’t intercept singles and are a much better option Motec, Hondata, Autronic etc they normaly allow total control of your car in every possible way, allowing more tuning to be done creating a more higher tuned engine resulting in normally increase power and more driveability. They cost between $750 - $4000 depending on units.

Regards James

[ALLMTR]

You forgot Microtech :lol:

[BLKCRX]

microtech hmmm they forgot one key thing... part thotte tuning ehhehehe unless they have changed.... plus cold start whats that !! ?? hmmm

Regards James

[ALLMTR]

I think they have changed.....and what is part throttle hehehe

[Weq]

Correct you need a programmable ECU something that supports retime programming is very nice, for you to be able to tune your Honda above and beyond what Honda set as factory.

Basic piggy back ECU’s such as AFC’s e-Manage link all the very low end devices which don’t normally handle things like vtec / ignition or cold starts correctly are between 600 and 1500 These devices sux because over time your stock eca makes corrections and auto adjusts the settings back to stock… which is why you will forever be dyno tuning your car.. good for workshops because you have to keep paying them retuning fee’s !! eheh

Regards James

The e-manage has fully programmable fuel, ignition and injector maps(16x16)It also supports is own pressure sensors and if used it can make adjustments finer then using stock MAP/AFM sensors. It can control vtec engagement and disengagement points, as well as datalogging, realtime tuning. It can tune part throttle also.

[poid]

The newer Microtech's are much better at controlling part throttle from what i understand.

Haltech can also be thrown in there as well. TSI is a nice little interceptor that should work well with OBD2 ecu's that are a pain in the ass with Hondata

[BLKCRX]

The problem with E manage is it still intercepts signals form the ECU, tuning is actually not real time its takes 2 seconds or so for updates which suxs hardcore for dyno tuners especially when tuning a boosted car as 2 seconds the engine can go BANG!! This only really allows for ramp tuning.

The reason why intercepting signals suxs is because both obd1 and obd2 Honda computers have a short term and long term o2 signals which according to its o2 sensor rich or lean off fuel valves, as well as retarding ignition from the knock sensor, in time any intercepting device becomes invisible to the stock Honda ecu, forcing you to have another dyno tune, reset the ecu etc. The new dc5 honda flash rom ecu’s learn so fast within 3 dyno pulls there already back to factory settings. The E manage also has the limitation of only reading up to 9psi of boost and a few other known bugs.. for that price there’s much better options, its just some workshops will sware there good only because they make huge profit margins on them !!! recommending what good for there pocket not what’s good for the customer. Haltek is another good ECU, although cold start is what it lacks, and external single imputs and outputs.

YAY for microtech finally fixing up there part throttle, I wonder what they changed / added…. ill have to borrow one and see how they compare now a days, because before hmm shocking.

OBD2 is’t a pain in the arse its just more expensive your only limited to your modifications on you car by the size of your pocket and how much you want to spend.
I always choose quality and function over price, things are normally expensive for a reason.

Regards James

[Weq]

Ok i'll make sure i keep that learnign stuff in mind when i get mine. It comes as standard in the turbo kit i'm grabbing, so on the pocket its basically costing nothing for a tunable system. Personally though one thing doesn sit right, greddy and other kit providers include piggyback systems in all thier kits (including GSR's)- why would they do this - becuase i'm sure they will be liable when something pop's due to the ECU relearning..? Is this the same with rising rate FPR's and igniton coils (ala MSD) which retard timing with boost??

Regarding the 9PSI statement, i dont see how that can be true. Check out the emanage groups on yahoo, their are some for WRX's, TT Supra's and its a popular choice with EVO's, all of which run more boost then above.
Good thread though, tuning out better then just saying 'this sucks, this is good' if u know what i mean.

[BLKCRX]

E manage have different products for different car’s, designed for the stock map sensor.
The stock Honda map sensor a 2.2V sensor can only read 11psi, factor into the fact you don’t’ want to max out your sensor a safe level is 9psi or so that you can accurately read.
So that’s where e manage limits lie, and due to the fact you can’t configure it for a different voltage map sensor such as the 3 or 4bar motec map sensor that many ecu’s use. And trust me you don’t want to push the limits of the stock map sensor !!

Not many kits actually provide ecu based computers with there kits FMU’s and FPR’s MSD ignition retard etc change the final output directly to the engine they don’t fool the ecu into thinking / reading a different valve so these devices do work completely different, so that’s why these devices re fine.
As for buying a turbo kit why don’t you make up your own !! trust me it’s a much better option than using any kit !! always resulting in a higher quality reliable product, every kit cuts some corner !!!!
At the end of the day all you need is a very strong turbo manifold, a nice turbo, oil feed lines, a intercooler and exhaust modified and some cooler pipes, 4 larger injectors, a nice fuel regulator to make sure fuel is flowing nicely, nice intake fuel pump and some decent engine management which will handle anything you though at it, why do things twice do it correctly the first time

Regards James

[poid]

not all interceptors have those closed-loop self learning issues however, as some are closed-loop compatible and shouldnt have those problems (shouldn't being the operative word, i'm yet to find this out first-hand).

OBD2 is a pain in the ass compared to OBD1 cars for Hondata, and yes it gets to be more than i would spend on Hondata :P

I think Haltech have solved cold-start issues, as they have new E6X and E11 ecu's out now

Unfortunately not everyone can leave price as the last variable in their choices :wink:

[BLKCRX]

Any third party device can not tell the ecu to be in closed loop or open loop! Impossible with the Honda ECU. The Honda ecu will self learn unless its programmed physically out of the ecu or fully replaced, don’t believe everything you read ! I know how all OBD1 and 2 and OBD3 ecu’s work like the back of my hand.

OBD2 is no pain in the arse you just by the obd2 conversion ECU plug it straight in simple plug and play, just cots 800$ extra. Plug and play is no pain in the arse!, if it is hmmm I guess sex is also a pain in the arse also !! LOL all you do is push and its done.

Regards James