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Thread: Kumho KU36's

  1. #85
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    Last edited by string; 29-08-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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  2. #86
    Member Array
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Tamborine Qld
    Car:
    S2000
    String, you don't need any scales or gauges to see the result.

    To start with, think of the original mini. If you look at photos of them racing, or just cornering hard, you will see them with a back wheel high in the air.
    The Mini Cooper came fitted with a stiff front roll bar, & did not do this. Fit a Cooper roll bar to the mini & that rear wheel will come down onto the road too. That rear wheel, had no weight on it at all, while in the air, & now, quite obviously, has some, This you can change depending how stiff you make that front roll bar. Where do you think that weight is coming from?

    I have a photo somewhere of myself in a Hillman Imp, & Spenser Martin , [winner of the 67 gold star in an F1 Brabham], in a Vauxhall Viva, coming through Murrays corner, into pit straight in the 64 Bathurst 500. I have the Imps front wheel high in the air, & Spenser has the Vivas rear wheel high in the air. This was the cornering attitude built into each car. Any enthusiast who bought either of these things back then, trotted down to the local spring maker, & bought a suitable roll bar to correct this silliness of the stock car.

    With the Viva, Spenser would have been on the power since turn in, but with one back wheel now in the air, [& an open diff], he could not apply any to the ground. There is still enough weight on the outside front wheel to have it nearly scraping that corner on the road. This weight is coming from the rear corner waving around in the breeze.

    The same front wheel lifting as with the Imp applied to many cars back then, when manufacturers did not even consider fitting rear roll bars, the original Lotus Elite, & the Morgan are 2 I raced, that improved dramatically with a rear bar getting some weight transferred onto the inside front corner. A stiffer front bar only made them under steer like mad.

    Yes Ludecrs, you are absolutely right, turning in while braking will give you extra weight & grip on the front, but only while you hold the brakes on. Once you come off the brakes the thing will return to it's natural characteristic, ofter understeer today. A really competent driver can keep the tail out with power, if they have enough, & a rear wheel drive car, [think drifting], but the tyres will not last very long. Most drivers can not use this technique for very long, at higher speeds, before they disappear backwards into the scenery. It also will not apply, of course, where there is no braking into the corner. I for one would not like to be going across the top of the mountain, or through the chase at Bathurst in a car that required the application of brakes to set up it's handling. I did not use the brakes at all from the cutting to skyline in the F1 Brabham.

    Similar results can be achieved with high bump setting on the shocks. The outside front shock can transfer enough weight, at turn in, to effect the grip, & change the handling. Once a cornering attitude has been established, a really good driver can hold it, rally drivers did it all the time in the old 2WD cars, but on bitumen you will have to be good, or the thing will bite you.

    There are so many things like camber change, roll centers, static weight distribution, down force among them which interplay that roll bars are only a small, but critical part of handling. It's the bloke who understands which combination of these things, at which end, will give you what you want, who becomes a champion.

  3. #87
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    Last edited by string; 29-08-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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