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About to start my first turbo build... b16a
Ok i can see that allot of people have been posting topics asking about b16a turbo setups and the last thing i wanna do is add to the ever increasing mass of these usless topics.
I just want some input on who i can talk to in the brisbane area (like a mechanic/tuning place) to help me with the build e.g sourceing parts and actually knows what they are talking about (experience with hondas)...
ive just been made redundent from work so they gave me 6k... im going to use this money as i assume i can get a pretty good setup with that. i have never really ever worked on a turbo car but have been doing some research to gather info on what i need. i am just looking for a mild setup on stock interals to use for good old QR sprints.
ok so far i have the following:
stock JDM b16a series 2 with a full stainless 2.25 exhaust and hiflo cat, Surge tank with walbro fuel pump, sump has been modified with two 1/4" Fittings...
by my understanding i will need the following:
Turbo - decided on GT2860RS (.86) or GT2871R (.63)
Oil and water lines - Braided Lines
Manifold -
Intercooler -
BOV -
Injectors - Denso 550cc
Engine managment - Hondata S300
Anything i have forgotten??
wondering if it would be better to get a whole kit or just source the parts individually...
Reading through B16 aka Matt's thread has helped heaps but i feel like i need to talkto someone about allot of little things to do with turbo setups that i just dont understand/know about.
please dont post unless you know what you are talking about. i need people with real world experience. but any info is great.
thanks guys!
Last edited by MacDiZZle; 23-08-2009 at 07:17 PM.
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Ok you probably wont get better help that talking to people on here about building a custom kit. So just ask questions and people can help.... Make a list and get people to help you with it and just tick off what you need and where to get it done. Or do it yourself
Its good you got the fuel pump etc cos that would be required in the upgrade to turbo.
I've had gt28rs and its great spool. Very quick but it falls out on the top end but it still good for the power your running.
your 2.25 inch exhaust should be fine for a gt28rs running 6-10psi max but anything more you would need to upgrade
Oil and water fittings can be done custom by going to hose fitting joints. In perth we have enzed and Hosemart. Can either do Braided or High temp sard silicone. Difference in price is $80 for good silicone high temp or $250 for good braided...I did braided but silicone just as good. Dont go cheap on the silicone hosing if you go that way because it will melt.
Buy an intercooler seperate and mount it yourself then get an exhaust shop to custom up a piping setup for your car. To be honest i think thats the best way and it will only cost 200-400. Intercooler size is just depending on how much psi you want...optimum officiancy rating on the gt28rs is like 10.4psi or something. Anything over that will start to create more Heat which will need a bigger intercooler to cool that. But if your not going past 10psi then a smaller one will do fine.
Engine management i went with a power FC but alot of guys on here go hondata so they should be the GO!...dont know much about them so you would have to ask someone else on the model you would need for your setup.
Injectors you will need something around 550cc's RC's seam to be the way to go with honda's
BOV is personal preference...Just sound really. With the amount of PSI your running you might not even need a bov. I've got the HKS SSQ but ive blocked it atm cos i perfer to run it without. But anything above 7psi you will start to do ongoing damage to the turbo which will just wear its life out quicker.
Exhaust manifold is the biggest decision of all. Dont get your mate to tig/mig or anything weld it. Trust me ive gone down that path and it doesnt end up well. Ive been through 4 different exhaust manifolds and you get what you pay for. Make sure you pay attention to exhaust manifolds and what your buying...i suggest search up on here about that and look for Steam pipe builds. Theres also the difference between Long ram and Short Ram
Me Lukenzen and Limbo all have b16a2's with gt28XX's with similar setup to what you want...theres heeps of others with the same...just get your info off here.
Edit your post and start to make a list...E.g
Turbo - Gt28rs
Intercooler - China Ebay 700x300x400
injectors - RC 660cc
and so on
Last edited by FastFwd; 21-08-2009 at 12:52 PM.
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EDIT:
My ECU is stock, except that the EPROM chip has been de-soldered and replaced with a DIP socket, this can then take a ZIP socket and the ZIP socket takes the ribbon cable for the Emulator. All that crap is just the interface connections for the Emulator.
The EPROM chip that was removed just contains the fuel and ignition timing maps, and a few other things and all the emulator does is store and show the ecu these maps, but they are now completely editable.
Some consider it ‘piggyback’ but it’s not. Piggyback systems intercept the signals coming into the ecu and change or block them. The system I run allows full standard operation of the stock ecu.
I run a program called BRE on my laptop, which connects to the emulator and gives me the fuel and ignition maps to play with. It’s freeware and doesn’t cost a penny. It’s a US based program and is found on www.pgmfi.org.
The LC-1 is a wideband sensor and controller, most commonly used in Honda’s and other makes as well. It is a well established bench mark for Wideband 02 sensors.
How does it work. A narrowband sensor has a limited voltage between 0-1v and is limited to seeing an AFR (air fuel ratio) of something like 11-17 AFR, a wideband sensor has a voltage range of 1-5v and can see anything from 7-21 AFR. They have a much more accurate reading of afr’s and as they can see a greater range are what we use for tuning. The LC-1 has two analogue outputs, I run one into my stoc ecu and this is fed into my tuning program (BRE) and the other output goes to a visual display called the DB Gauge, this shows me in cabin AFR’s.
So by seeing the AFR’s in the BRE program, I am able to adjust the fuel maps with the help of the Emulator to affect the output.
Yes, the tuners I have used tune through the emulator as that is how I have set it up. They also tune with their own 5 wire wideband at the tale pipe that runs into their dyno software (this is used as a double check).
Hondata is basically the same as what I have, a chipped & socketed stock ecu, your paying for the additional features and the tunability of it, I say tunability of it as there are tuners that specialise in tuning this ecu. No one’s heard of BRE, although I have been fine with using it as I sit there with the tuner on the dyno and work the program.
It’s a bit tricky to explain and I rushed that a bit, happy to go over it in person, and it’ll make more sense to you as well
 Originally Posted by MacDiZZle
Hi Matt! 
first i just want to say wow! i love this thread! this is just what i needed... Im about to start my first ever turbo build too and yours is an inspiration.
i have never worked on or even driven a turbo car so i have a bit to learn in terms of boosting stuff.
basically i want what you have hey lol. 8-10psi, stock internals just a nice reliable setup to improve my times at qr... i like the gt28rs... it looks like it will suit my purpose well (being a circuit car) when tuned properly based on your dyno sheets.
my question has to do with your ecu setup... is it a piggyback system? what is your ecu chipped with? hondata? and how does the LC-1 work? like how do u adjust the a/f ratio with it? does it plug up to the ostrich controller? does your tuner tune it with the ostrich system? i thought you could adjust a/f with hondata? sorry for all the questions lol i just dont really understand how it all comes together.
where in qld are you located? if you dont mind me asking.
P.S sorry for spamming up your thread with the massive post 
Last edited by B16; 21-08-2009 at 01:28 PM.
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Brad....
You can get all your parts here in aus...maybe even all on here. New or second hand.
If you want a new turbo go to GCG here http://gcg.com.au/turbo/turbodefault.aspx they sell all garrett turbo's. All sorts of different GT28 models. Remember theres alot of them not just gt2860r (disco potato). Just depends on what power u want and when you want it in terms of RPM.
Oil and water connect to your turbo with Banjo fittings. and oil dump needs a custom fitting to your sump... Oil feed comes from your Oil pressure sender just under your oil filter under your intake mani.
Water feed is a differnt story which i will need to show you picks i took of where i added mine...get to that later tho. Its very easy.
Power FC is fairly old. its been revised over the years but its still regarded as one of the best Management systems as its very easy to tune and almost all tuners know it so it doesnt complicate things. Hondata for me in perth would be a mission.
Ive used both China and Greddy intercoolers and they not much diff...air temps didnt change much...maybe .5 degree's at times...not worth it really...china ones off ebay are like less the $100 these days. Your right by saying you can get turbo lag where it takes a 0.2 of a second more to pressurize the intercooler because its bigger but trust me you wont even notice it. This is something that people have talked about for years but theres no real difference in my opinion. I went from a small cooler to larger and noticed nuthing in terms of lag.
most of the GT28's all fit on the T2(t25) flange so you will need to look at a manifold for that. You will need a short ram manifold, try and find a Steam pipe one. Can be new or second hand it will be as strong either way.
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Just rem that hondata and the like uses a obd1 ECU, guess where they come from? Pre'96 cars.
The PFC came out in about 2000 and something. There is a guy who sells new units from Japan for $1000USD, let me know if you want his details.
i like the PFC its got a nice little hand controller you can view things with.
The hondata and other chipped ECUs normally have the advantage of launch control, and boost control. The PFC boost control is almost impossible to get, i tried.
If you need boost control the Eboost 2 is very good, there are a few others also
T25 & T28 is basically the same flange, the T2 is different.
WIth the turbo a GT2860R is nice, if you get a .64 rear the turbo will boost early, about 3krpm or so you will almost get full boost, but it will not come on as strong higher up.
With a .86 rear it comes on at about 4krpm, but keeps it harder.
So the rear depends on what you wanna run, a drag or track type car.
Fitting wise - braided if you can afford it. Its the only way safe way, i learnt the hard way 
Exhaust 2 1/4 is almost abit small, 2 1/2 or 3" would be nice, but stick with what you have now, your tuner will know if you should go bigger.
I have a GT2871r, i should have gone the smaller rear i reckon, would have been good to see how it ran with a smaller rear.
My car gets full boost at 4,800rpm roughly, but it comes on harder than a GT2860rs.
Its the turbo game, you get abit of spoolup time loss for more power
Last edited by Limbo; 21-08-2009 at 03:11 PM.
Evo IX - THE FINAL EVOLUTION
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Easy Brad
As fastfwd (what's your name btw?) said go to GCG, that's where I got mine, ask for Michael he's super helpful and might remember me as I've been there a fair few times!
Turbo wise, the T2 manifold flange will fit all xT2xx turbo's (T25, GT25, GT28 etc etc) and is your best bet, a custom manifold will be easily supplied with one of these but off the shelf mani's tend to come with T3 flanges for the larger framed turbos, so you need an adaptor - avoid this if at all possible.
Short ram is great for response and as I'm sure you've seen mine can look rather shmick. Go steam pipe as has been said as you'll get the confidence that it'll not break, some nice ceramic coating and your done. Mine was done @ Performance Exhaust in Northmead NSW as was Limbo's. Haks does do great work, although there was a little problem with mine and clearance, although I'd go back to Haks at the drop of a hat.
I have a Mishimoto intercooler from the states, it just happened to come up on crxaus and I grabbed it: http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-u...all-black.html
It's a nice item, works well and is a great size. Either go for one on Ebay, or look around on other sites like skylines Australia's forum where you can pic up some good deals.
Injector wise, i'm using 440cc ones from a R34 gtr (I think might need to check my log to confirm) and they are good from around the 170kw mark I believe (have a friend running these numbers on a B16 with the same injectors and has been running for about 2 years now)
Water lines are a piece of piss, just take the source from the block just before the Throttle body, and return into the throttle body. I don't have any pics I have just realised, but can show you on the motor.
The oil doesn't have to come from a sandwich plate but if you do this means you can easily tap in gauges as all plates come with 4 source points.
EDIT: Thought all T2 flanges were the same? Also was going to recommend the .86 hotside over the .64
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oil feed from a T piece is the most common (from the oil pressure send usually).
Yeah i'd recommend a .86 on a GT2860rs, on the larger GT2871 & GT2876, the .64 rear is prob, nice daily driving. End of the day its only a 1.6ltr
440cc is usually good for 200kw, so long as you upgrade your fuel pump, otherwise look at bigger injectors
T2 is slightly smaller than a T25 flange.
Yeah Haks did mine, i didn't have a prob with clearance..? what happed with yours Matt? i saw your manifold, it looked nice, i was thinking of getting mine adjusted afterwards to look like yours! (just didnt cos Haks gave me dirty looks LOL)
Last edited by Limbo; 21-08-2009 at 04:27 PM.
Evo IX - THE FINAL EVOLUTION
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who chipped your ecu matt? reading back over your post im beginning to like it... i didnt know that you could do that with stock ecu's. like change them into a fully stand alone ajustable unit. crazy! because if its cheaper then something like a hondata id be more then happy to use it. and that would mean i could tune it at home hey.
haha im trying to reply but im at work and i gotta also juggle dodging the boss and getting some work done lol
thanks for your replies guys i knock off in half an hour!
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One more thing macdizzal if your confused a little...go over build threads. My build thread is just of my latest rebuild and turbo setup upgrade but its good for learning and getting overviews of things with pictures and such
heres mine....
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111167
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Hey limbo, it's Matt, but never mind
Just a point of note, I'm still running my stock fuel pump, I do plan to upgrade it, but for anyone out there if you unit is working it's not a prerequisite.
Your using a ramhorn and Haks already has a working jig for them, mine was from scratch and the problem is that the wastegate does not clear the block webbing. This resulted in a crushed wastegate (between the turbo and the block) when the manifold was fully tightened onto the head. I can only assume that he had not fully tightened the mani on to check. It's not a drama, it did cause me some serious over boost and a new wastgate and longer rod, but it's shimmed now and working fine. I haven't told him yet, and as I said before would still go back to him for more work. But I'll wind him up a bit if I can!
lol that he gave you dirty looks!
My ecu was chipped by the oneandonly DXS (crxaus member, and probably lurking around here somewhere), he did his stock ecu and was playing with data logging etc, then put it up for sale so I grabbed it. It's easy to do your self, or you can get the bits and go to an auto elec to have it done if you don;t trust yourself - you can fry the circuit boards if you over heat them.
Not many people do know what you can do with the stock ecu, lots just follow the crowd, and rightly so, I'm not klnocking them, there is a lot of good things to be said with regards to Hondata and the like, and I may well even end up there in the future with my Stage2 Build....
But there are other ways and means, and if your prepared to step off the beaten path and do some research you can be rewarded. For example, it'll probably cost you 1/2 that of a Hondata system to set up, it'll cost you the same as a Hondata to tune, and once you have a good map, you can play with it and data log when your out on the track etc and refine the car endlessly to your hearts content, rather than forking out $$$ each time you want a retune.
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). so im driving my project car to work. should be about 3 weeks to a month when i wanna have all the parts ready to slap on... do it all over like a week.
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