How to find the best ignition timing position without a dyno?

[beeza]

How to set the timing

Please read:

"Setting proper ignition timing is crutial to making power and having a reliable motor. Having it set to manufacturer specifications on a stock motor will give you the most power and best fuel economy. However once you begin to modify components on the motor, you may need to change the igition timing to extract the power from those units.
Generally, advancing the timing will give you better throttle response and low end power along with improved fuel economy. Retarding the timing will reduce the chances of detonation and provide a safer condition for boosted motors or N2O motors.
Running a spark advance that is too extreme for a given setup can yield disastrous results. Be sure to consult a professional before attempting to change your ignition timing."

Stock timing on my d16y4 is 12 degrees BTDC.I'm running the MSD system and I/H/E and I feel there's there's a better position to set my timing now.But how will I know where is the best position without a dyno?

I have read:

"The best way to set timing IMO is to use a vaccum gauge on a vaccum line going to the intake manifold.Adjust the timing by turning the distributor untill you reach maximum vaccum and tighten it back down."

Does anyone use this meathod or have an alternative meathod of finding the optimal ignition timing position?

Last time my mechanic set it by ear and was 2 degrees advanced,so 10 degrees BTDC but I am not confident that this is the best position.

Any and all feedback in this area is greatly appreciated

Brett.

[richy b]

id prob advance the timing a fraction, prob in mm incriments. then test drive and see how it feels. I doubt you would harm the motor in this way.....much cheaper then dyno testing

[beeza]

That's a great idea.I remember my mechanic got me to drive around the block,eack time changing it a little until it was good.

Thanks mate.

[TODA AU]

That's a great idea.I remember my mechanic got me to drive around the block,eack time changing it a little until it was good.
Thanks mate.

Mate, it's a D16Y4... 9.4:1 C/R with a mighty 88kw
Do yourself a favour & stop wasting your time...
Just set the ignition timing per factory & be done with it.
If you want to go faster, buy a faster car.

Failing that, get a nice straight black stick, wrap it in black electrical tape...
Dip the end in gold paint & let it dry.
Once dry you now have your magic wand...
Now wave this around & blurt out idiotic sentences...
Hey presto... The car is faster.

[beeza]

It's not about power,it's about making the car run at it's best i.e. responsive and smooth.

I didn't mention I'm runnin' the MSD system...

Does that change anything in your mind Adrian?

[jrxs-r]

Well... if you have spent the $$$ on the MSD ignition, just spend a litle bit more to get it set on the dyno. Advancing the timing too far can cause detonation, and WILL harm the motor. Besides that, getting it done on the dyno you can see where the gains/losses are to be had, and you can then make an educated choice to have it set to where you want it.

Just go dyno it!

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

Just get it Dyno'd Brett..


Come to Sydney for a road trip, get it done, chillax at mine a little

[Limbo]

breeza, if your gonna use your method, i did it before long ago.

What you normally do is turn on the a/c to turn up the load before driving.
I used a timing gun and turned it up a degree at a time, then when it started to ping we dropped it back 1-2 degrees. Best done on a hot day with a/c on.

Its a cheap free increase but don't expect too much, may loose abit low end though

[mocchi]

Failing that, get a nice straight black stick, wrap it in black electrical tape...
Dip the end in gold paint & let it dry.
Once dry you now have your magic wand....
Hey presto... The car is faster.

ROFL. this should be in the quote that make you lol.

[TODA AU]

It's not about power,it's about making the car run at it's best i.e. responsive and smooth.

I didn't mention I'm runnin' the MSD system...

Does that change anything in your mind Adrian?

I understand what you're trying to acheive,
But no, it doesn't change my mind.

[JohnL]

From your quoted text;

"Having it set to manufacturer specifications on a stock motor will give you the most power and best fuel economy. However once you begin to modify components on the motor, you may need to change the igition timing to extract the power from those units"

and you said;
...I didn't mention I'm runnin' the MSD system...

It would be a mistake to think of your new ignition system as being a 'modification' in the sense meant in the quoted text, that sense implying some significant change in the engines volumetric efficiency (i.e. ability to 'breathe', e.g. cam change and/or porting or supercharging or boost change etc etc etc), and / or an increase or decrease in compression ratio.

With a stock engine (i.e. less than very substantially modified) an 'upgraded' ignition system will have zero affect on performance unless the system it replaced was in some way faulty, and will require no change to the timing.

Really, just set it to the factory spec, or set it on a dyno (shouldn't take long just to do the timing, shouldn't cost much).

[beeza]

Well... if you have spent the $$$ on the MSD ignition, just spend a litle bit more to get it set on the dyno. Advancing the timing too far can cause detonation, and WILL harm the motor. Besides that, getting it done on the dyno you can see where the gains/losses are to be had, and you can then make an educated choice to have it set to where you want it.

Just go dyno it!

I know I know,that maybe the only way to get rid of the low end lag.Tune it with greddy emanage,I had it and was gonna then my plans changed and now they have changed back

Just get it Dyno'd Brett..


Come to Sydney for a road trip, get it done, chillax at mine a little

Thanks SHO! I will head down there and when I do,I'll be sure to chillout for a while's wid cha

I want to come down to go to wakefield

breeza, if your gonna use your method, i did it before long ago.

What you normally do is turn on the a/c to turn up the load before driving.
I used a timing gun and turned it up a degree at a time, then when it started to ping we dropped it back 1-2 degrees. Best done on a hot day with a/c on.

Its a cheap free increase but don't expect too much, may loose abit low end though

Thanks Limbo!

Shouldn't you be gaining low end though by advancing the timing,that's what I need.

So on a hot day you warmed up the car then turned the aircon on (full?) then set the timing.When you hear it ping,drop it back 1-2 degrees?

Is that Limbo?

I understand what you're trying to acheive,
But no, it doesn't change my mind.

On the weekend I Callorbrated the voltage on the tps and adjusted the idle via the FITV and idle/air screw,it's much better,it's sitting at more responsive revs at 100km/h - 3000rpm at it's idleing fine but it's still not picking up from a stop like I would like it too and believe it can,it's still lagging.Now,I only have the timing to play with,then greddy emanage.

It would be a mistake to think of your new ignition system as being a 'modification' in the sense meant in the quoted text, that sense implying some significant change in the engines volumetric efficiency (i.e. ability to 'breathe', e.g. cam change and/or porting or supercharging or boost change etc etc etc), and / or an increase or decrease in compression ratio.

With a stock engine (i.e. less than very substantially modified) an 'upgraded' ignition system will have zero affect on performance unless the system it replaced was in some way faulty, and will require no change to the timing.

Really, just set it to the factory spec, or set it on a dyno (shouldn't take long just to do the timing, shouldn't cost much).

Cheers John,good idea,I could just get the timing set on the dyno,cheers mate

MSD says it allows for some minor advancement of timing.I dont want power I want it running at it's smoothest.