How to find the best ignition timing position without a dyno?

[CRXer]

your firing 'Before"-TDC.
if u want to advance,u need to fire even more BTDC which equals greater degree BTDC.
so yes 14deg btdc is advance
anywhere 10-14 is fine.
gonna be a hell lot better than 2deg anyway lol

[beeza]

I know! I was like,why hasn't my motor blown up! It's been like that for 1 yr and 9 months now.That's how long this problem has been hanging around.

I can't wait to drive my car home 2night from work

[JohnL]

I know! I was like,why hasn't my motor blown up!

A retarded ignition timing (over ideal) is quite mechanically safe for the engine (no expanding flame fronts / pressure rise colliding with still rising pistons), though it might cause the exhaust valve to run hot if fuel is still burning as the exhaust valve opens.

It's been like that for 1 yr and 9 months now.That's how long this problem has been hanging around.

I can't wait to drive my car home 2night from work

It ought to be substantially improved, and with better economy. You need to ask why was it so far off?

[beeza]

My car is going incredibly well.It's a different car.I really dont know how it got so far out of whack..

I had TB issues before,with the FITV/IACV etc when I didn't understand my engine.My mechanic at the time set the timing best he could with the issues I had.Since then I have learnt about the TB and corrected/adjusted everything because I thought the problem was TB related.After I fixed that,the problem was still there.I bought a timing light and learnt how to set the timing (super easy in the end...) finially.

Can anything move the timing position besides turning the dizzy?

[JohnL]

The 'issues' you mention have nothing to do with ignition timing, so you need to ask, why was the mechanic trying to adress them by retarding the ignition...?

I'm not sure if the ECU has any control over ignition timing, it does with some cars. Ignition timing will change if the cam belt jumps a tooth, but I don't think there is anything else that could cause the timing to change. That's one of the nice things about modern electronic ignition systems, unlike mechanical contact breaker systems where there are a number of moving parts prone to wear and thus affecting the timing.

[string]

The ECU has complete programmable control over ignition timing (within the physical limitations of the distributor of course).

[JohnL]

The ECU has complete programmable control over ignition timing (within the physical limitations of the distributor of course).

So, does this mean that the 'physical' (base) timing created by the rotational position of the distributor body is not important, so long as this is not so far out that the ECU cannot compensate? If the 'base' timing is off by a relatively small amount, does the ECU 'correct' the base timing created by an incorrectly positioned distributor body? This would be why ignition timing should be set with the 'diagnostic plug' shorted out?

[CRXer]

dizzy base tells the ecu what the mechanical motor timing is via the TDC & CKP sensors in the base.CYP sensor just tells the ecu which cylinder needs attention by indicating No1 cylinder.
base timing is having the ecu & motor agree on what is happening.
u short the diagnostic plug to remove any compensations the ecu might be making to the timing due to temperature/elec load/etc,& ecu will hold the timing at a fixed value,eg 16deg on a Bseries,& then u can go match the mechanical timing at the motor,by making the TDC & CKP sensors in the base agree with the timing mark on the crank pulley.
ecu cant correct anything if it doesnt know whats actually going on to begin with.

[string]

So, does this mean that the 'physical' (base) timing created by the rotational position of the distributor body is not important, so long as this is not so far out that the ECU cannot compensate? If the 'base' timing is off by a relatively small amount, does the ECU 'correct' the base timing created by an incorrectly positioned distributor body? This would be why ignition timing should be set with the 'diagnostic plug' shorted out?

When it comes to actual engine position, the ECU is blindly ignorant - the system relies on the distributor's physical position being set such that the ignition tables make sense. Any changes to the base distributor position is equivalent to adding a fixed amount of timing to every cell on the timing map - an operation which cannot possibly give you the best timing map. Not only do you need a dyno but you need a tunable ECU to modify each cell for maximum performance.

The stock Honda timing maps vary from moderately conservative to majorly retarded; you can certainly find the best "distributor" position but it will not yield the best performance possible via timing tuning.

The base position is unimportant if you sync it with the ECU. You can retard/advance the base timing with the distributor by X degrees and add/subtract X degrees of advance to the entire timing table with zero net ignition timing change*.

* The coil is fired at the same crank position, but at a different distributor position. The points inside the distributor cap might not be wide enough to take my example to the extreme.

[CRXer]

looks to be about 5deg on the cap terminals & about 45-50deg on the rotor button string,well on mine anyway....

considering your cranking about 0 to -5deg & topping out at around the +40deg mark low load in general than u dont want to be too far off with your base timing,if thats what your getting at.