Bilstein B8 -> Koni/GC

[ewendc2r]

damn did the same thing string -- lost my post about 4 times tho!

Bottom line -- Search rr98itr user on Honda-tech.com for some GREAT posts on FWD suspension theory. His post started my quest for knowledge lol which ended with Milligans Race Car Vehicle Dynamics... Which is well explained, hardcore and you need to have your htinking cap on to apply the knowledge to a FWD perspective.

Also -- Spring Rates can be calculated but as rr98itr (scott) told me. The fastest theoretical setup may not be driveable at 100% whereas a slight compromise would result in perhaps a 96% top speed potential but 99% consistant application ie more attention can be paid to the race line rather than keeping the car on the road!!

Ewen who sometimes wonders why he tries to make a FWD go fast.

[string]

There's a reason that Milliken is littered with calculus; it is a hardcore topic. If you can understand the first 5 chapters you'll have a deeper understanding than any Honda-Tech thread I've ever come across.

[ewendc2r]

well yeah, but it is focussed on RWD setups .. It doesnt go into the theory behind FWD setup in detail. I guess the honda-tech.com threads were great as a detailed introductory. Treat millikens as a degree of sorts --- it is a reference book! My mate actually got their new workbook, interesting!!

Still -- No one has been able to describe why the japs do it different to the americans -- Both have fast cars, wildly differrent setups!

[string]

well yeah, but it is focussed on RWD setups .. It doesnt go into the theory behind FWD setup in detail.

The examples "focus" on RWD setups for the same reason that the aerodynamics chapter is so early - it is a reference for full blown custom race cars. It doesn't need to present specific case studies for every configuration because the exact same mathematics applies. As I said above, understand the first 5 chapters and you're ahead of 99% of the game - 5 chapters which neglect to mention anything about which wheels are being driven.

Still -- No one has been able to describe why the japs do it different to the americans -- Both have fast cars, wildly differrent setups!

I think you're sensationalising the issue. You're comparing solutions to two different problems. Different tracks and competitions with different rules, different climate, different budgets, different available consumables.

Most high ranking H1 Honda Challenge race cars have spring rates less rear biased than Autocross guys racing around cones - much closer to those "wildy different" Japanese setups

[ewendc2r]

Well -- it seems the japs stick to the 2-4hz ride frequency and setup the spring rate based on maths calc i.e. actual sprung weights and motion ratios .. I guess i need to clarify here. The purpose of the discussions i was involved in were how to make a fwd car turn (not necessarily consistently and easily repeatable -- ie may have the greatest potential to rotate and effect traction to front wheels however difficult to maintain consistently due to the inherent instability which enables the higher rotation rate...

I've seen some of the H1 racers with solid 30mm rear bars and small front bar with a factor of nearly 2x spring rate from front to rear (not wheel rate... but it'd be close). Compare that to some of the jap guys running near equal front / rear sway bar setups and softer rear springs relative to the front ... The actual physics behind it makes the US setup make more sense for fwd cars in terms of effective distribution of load transfer...

I know what you mean -- but there is still a significant difference... Even in the Phase DC2R, Spoon DC2R etc they all have similar setups to that above.

Interested in your thoughts / response --- Always learning and understanding the WHY between two different setups for similar purpose is critical..

Rules may form part of it -- unlikely.. Climate, no. Budgets? well, sure, but unlikely. Still need the part, just diff spec. And assuming all have same access to parts etc ..

I've heard and felt first hand the effect of removing the front sway bar to increase the rear stiffness ratio -- i don't understnad why you would want to increae front stiffness ratio.. Its taking away load transfer onto the driving wheels effectively when cornering!

Ewen who neeeeeeds to open up vehicle dynamics again.

[MM89]

I've found a place online to purchase "Race Car Dynamics"
It's only $97, with free shipping from the UK, much cheaper than anywhere I've seen in Australia.

www.bookdepository.com

Anyway, back to the topic,

Recently I have been leaning towards the SPSS3 valved Koni's. Reason being they will handle the higher rates in the future if necessary.
I won't be needing any GC top hats with this setup and bottoming is apparently unheard of (or close to) on these shocks. Once again,
heard nothing but good feedback on this setup.

Considering the car will not be seeing much of Melbourne roads in the near future, SPSS3 + 550f/r might be a good move? Please
suggest some rates otherwise.

With the SPSS3 + GC, I'm unsure of a reliable place to purchase from. I've found weaksauce to be around the $1600USD mark not shipped
and another place by the name of Redshift Motorsports to be cheaper at $1359USD not shipped.
http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/R...ne%20Store.htm
Would LOVE some input regarding this Redshift place due to the pricing.

Thanks in advance guys

[ewendc2r]

worth the purchase, to save on shipping get their workbook as well, and latest publication!

[MM89]

yeah man, i'm onto it. but it's free shipping i believe

I am VERY open to alternatives for places to purchase this suspension kit.

[string]

Ha ha, I just paid for a set of SPSS3's a couple of days ago - second hand though. For only 550lb/in springs they're a bit of overkill but if you're looking to upgrade in the future...

[MM89]

thats good to hear string. i'm assuming you'll be running something upwards of 550lbf/in on the spss3?

to be honest, i'm not quite sure what would be necessary for a track like winton, which is the track that i go to.
i know the tight hairpins may benefit from some extra spring, especially in the rear. 550lb/in may be a good place to start with?

redshift motorsports seems good, their price is definitely pulling me towards that direction; and for that same reason i'm
a little uncertain. and plus a thread like this http://redshift.informe.com/koni-gc-...ions-dt80.html
isn't the biggest confidence booster..however i have also heard other good things on HT: http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread...ift+Motorsport

now this tells me that they were all good and well in 2005 and something went wrong during 2007 according to the dates on the posts.

[vinnY]

shoot these guys a pm or email to see what price they can do for you
got my old gc sleeves from them last time, pretty sure they do the tophat's you're after too

[MM89]

oh no limit, yeah have heard of them as well.

with the spss3 i'll be giving the top hats a miss. won't need the extra travel as the shock is already a fair bit shorter.

what was the shipping costs if you don't mind me asking?