Quality niggles with new Euro

[antony]

Guess what guys...

My car was in for the day on Tuesday to get the rattle fixed,and it was perfect until Friday morning,when it returned...intermittent,but bad.

I dont know what to think anymore,besides huge disapointment.

It is now booked in for a week in 2 weeks time.
Will keep you updated.

[Irving]

I would like to point out that for a “PERSON WITH NO MECHANICAL KNOWLEDGE” I have identified a complex “issue” which obviously you haven’t....So I question YOUR EXPERTISE and/or YOUR HEARING.

For the record I am an Electronics Engineer with nearly 30 years of troubleshooting experience. I have worked in many countries including USA, UK, Vietnam & Australia. My qualifications are well recondnized. Thank You.

[Irving]

I picked up my euro with the pcs, had the fix and still get the occasional pcs.
Got a letter from Honda Australia which stipulates that they will cover any engine damage for the life of my ownership which is caused by the pcs.

Similar to my case (mild PCS at 2200 RPM out of the showroom) After the upgrade car PINGED a lot. Got ECU and Knock Sensor Mapping RESET. Three tanks later, I get OCCASIONAL PCS but I have to use BP ULTIMATE. If you have the radio on or talking etc, you won't hear it. It is very mild!!
Got letter from Honda that they will cover engine damage.

[CB7_OWNER]

Early model Euros, had detonation problems/ ping problems, sound can be heard when load is put on the engine. Simple fix, R & R knock sensor.

All euros to date, seem to have this common problem, > distorted speakers. Simple fix, R&R new speakers. Problem comes back sometimes.. cause the ones they replace it with are same basically.

Dash trim around the headunit, can bubble up. R&R entire front dash is the solution here.

[buddah51au]

The way I read the response so far is that myself, TypeRpositive, Denot, limleong & his friend have either had the pinging issue resolvedor in type R's case never had it initially, while alibi & Irving have not. That is 5 happy customers & 2 not so happy.I could possibly add Praja to that list of no PCS, but I don't know him well enough & his car is still fairly new. So far we have 71% of this small sample without the problem.

So much for the statement "mild PCS" can be reproduced in any CU2 with the recommended 95RON" It has already in this small sample been proven incorrect.

What I will not do is bring in to the equation the number of people i personally know who have had the issue resolved as they are unable to speak for themselves. I would have to double check with my dealership regarding their figures, but from memory I think the number of complaints was between 45 & 50 to date, with 4 or 5 of those still having very mild PCS.

Lets keep the feedback coming.

[albii]

The way I read the response so far is that myself, TypeRpositive, Denot, limleong & his friend have either had the pinging issue resolvedor in type R's case never had it initially, while alibi & Irving have not. That is 5 happy customers & 2 not so happy.I could possibly add Praja to that list of no PCS, but I don't know him well enough & his car is still fairly new. So far we have 71% of this small sample without the problem.

So much for the statement "mild PCS" can be reproduced in any CU2 with the recommended 95RON" It has already in this small sample been proven incorrect.

What I will not do is bring in to the equation the number of people i personally know who have had the issue resolved as they are unable to speak for themselves. I would have to double check with my dealership regarding their figures, but from memory I think the number of complaints was between 45 & 50 to date, with 4 or 5 of those still having very mild PCS.

Lets keep the feedback coming.

For the people that still have the pcs after the fix, it is apparant that something else needs to be implemented to resolve their issues and not simply brushed off and told that some noise is normal by HA.
Will agree that putting a % on this issue is silly and will also agree that some cars would have it and the owners simply would be none the wiser.

[buddah51au]

For the people that still have the pcs after the fix, it is apparant that something else needs to be implemented to resolve their issues and not simply brushed off and told that some noise is normal by HA.
Will agree that putting a % on this issue is silly and will also agree that some cars would have it and the owners simply would be none the wiser.

I totally agree with what your saying, but to state that the PCS problem can be reproduced in every CU2 is a clearly wrong & misguided statement. I also believe that some dealers have not handled this problem professionally. As an example, my Dealership has & is carrying out the Knock Sensor Replacement & Software upgrade to every CU2 as it comes in for service, whether a complaint has been lodged or not. I don't believe that would be the case with every Dealership.

Let me put up another question that I have my own theory on, why is the PCS much more common on Auto's than manuals? I believe I have the answer, but it is only an opinion. Actually, given the right driving style, which is against everything I have ever been taught, I can replicate the same issue in some manual's pre the upgrade.

[CB7_OWNER]

whats "pcs"?

[praja6]

The way I read the response so far is that myself, TypeRpositive, Denot, limleong & his friend have either had the pinging issue resolvedor in type R's case never had it initially, while alibi & Irving have not. That is 5 happy customers & 2 not so happy.I could possibly add Praja to that list of no PCS, but I don't know him well enough & his car is still fairly new. So far we have 71% of this small sample without the problem.

So much for the statement "mild PCS" can be reproduced in any CU2 with the recommended 95RON" It has already in this small sample been proven incorrect.

What I will not do is bring in to the equation the number of people i personally know who have had the issue resolved as they are unable to speak for themselves. I would have to double check with my dealership regarding their figures, but from memory I think the number of complaints was between 45 & 50 to date, with 4 or 5 of those still having very mild PCS.

Lets keep the feedback coming.

Buddah,

Yes my car is fairly new 4months old and mostly i do drive it as a weekend car. It clocked up only just over 1000 +km so far. I dont hear anything unusual so far, may be my hearing is not so sensitive like others here? Or may be the issue has been already resolved for the car. Mine is built date january 2010 My10 base euro auto in silver. I wouldn't say i am a gentle driver, initially as this is the 1st big car i had some rough driving as well. Still the car is very solid and happy, except couple of times with my misjudgement i hit the alloy wheel in the kerb and recently the front bumper in my fence. Other than that all good. Also from beginning i am only using BP ultimate which is RON 98... This may be also the reason i dont hear pinging?

FIngers cross ping wont be in my car..

[H.T]

I would like to know how you got the letter from Honda about covering the engine for any damage due to their "PCS" despite mine continueing, they won't give a guarantee in writing!

To put it simply and kindly antony, you have bought a lemon, just like myself and many other members, and the worst part about it, is that unless you sell it for a HUGE loss, your stuck with it...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

It could be such a great car.

[praja6]

I would like to know how you got the letter from Honda about covering the engine for any damage due to their "PCS" despite mine continueing, they won't give a guarantee in writing!

To put it simply and kindly antony, you have bought a lemon, just like myself and many other members, and the worst part about it, is that unless you sell it for a HUGE loss, your stuck with it...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

It could be such a great car.

HT, i don't think anthony is having the ping issue like others having here. According to anthony it seems like some kind of rattle.. Mine is Jan 2010 My 10 buit base auto and i don't have ping issue at all, the car is very smooth. i think Anthony's car was built around in May 2010 My 11 and i dont think he is having ping issue and seems like kind of some new issue and fingers cross HA will give some good answer to Anthony.

[Irving]

I have long tried to work toward a resolution to this issue and in the process had to argue on this forum that this problem still exists. Now that we are at some sort of agreement that the PCS problem still exists in at least “some” cars it is surprising that HA still won’t do anything to resolve the remaining problematic cars.

First, it must be explained that there are two issues here, Pinging and PCS (Post Combustion Sound). I was told that when the CU2 was first released, most PINGED badly (especially automatics). My car 6MT didn’t do this. It had mild PCS at 2200rpm. After the botched fix, my car PINGED BADLY. Then after the EMC and Knock mapping reset, I had PCS for three tanks of BP ultimate. Now it’s mostly fine with BP ultimate.

Pinging sounds like rattling marbles and PCS is the sound that you may hear due to secondary combustion on the downstroke. It is more like a click, click when the engine rpms rise to 3400rpm. In my car it can be reproduced with Shell or Caltex fuels. However, with BP ultimate it is much more difficult to reproduce and is rarely heard. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT FACT. It means that the timing of the engine requires further retardation. However, doing this may reduce power output.

It can also be argued that some PCS is actually good, as these secondary detonations on the downstroke add to the power output. I have absolutely NO COMPLAINTS about engine responsiveness and acceleration when using BP ultimate. Infact, performance of the car is exceptional for a car of this size.

My complaint is as follows: The specified fuel is 95RON. Even 98RON Shell or Caltex causes my car to PCS badly. BP ultimate almost eradicates this issue to the point that most will not notice that this an issue. What this means is that with further engine management enhancement (SW tweaking), it should be possible to completely eliminate this issue. Honda are the only people who can do this.

My point in all this is that the CU2 could be such a great car but is let down by this issue which could have been completely resolved if it had not been brushed aside.