Torque or top end

**b20b** · 08-01-2005 02:16 PM

Which would give the best lap time , having your Honda (eg type R Integra Dc2) aftermarket computer turned to get an increase in top end Kw or sacrifice top end Kw for a gain in torque.

Any suggestions on what is the best

**BLKCRX** · 08-01-2005 02:51 PM

Why not have both ?
Design it and tune it right anything is possible

**TODA AU** · 08-01-2005 02:59 PM

Ditto - Both.
With the right set-up, you should achieve a relativly flat torque curve from 3000rpm to 8500rpm without too much trouble.
The better your combination & tuning the the higher in the revs the actual peak torque will move. However, it's the mean torque that will translate into quicker lap times.
Computer tuning alone won't make you a hell of a lot faster.
You need to improve the engine's volumetric & thermal efficiency first.
Then, tuning the ECU will allow you to make the most of the mechanical & physical changes.

**VTEC16** · 08-01-2005 03:14 PM

you would want to tune your curve for more power AND torque at higher revs......cause thats where you spend your time on a racetrack.....

**SPEEDCORE** · 08-01-2005 05:10 PM

Sorry Vtec16 but I don't agree with that theory, more so the tuning for torque at higher revs part of it.

True..... if you can get a good compromise and acheive good torque early on and sustain that into the high rpm range than that is probably the ideal and possible with someone that knows WTF they are doing in regards to tuning.

As for torque and circuit racing..... well it also depends on the type of track, lots of long flowing curves are not going to be so taxing on your need for low and midrange torque like it would on a track with alot of low speed areas such as hairpins etc.

**b20b** · 08-01-2005 05:34 PM

Any ideas who in Melbourne is experianced in Hondas and Motec turning

**BLKCRX** · 08-01-2005 06:02 PM

Hmmm

Something doesn’t add up here

or maybe everyone just thinks u can tune peak power.. dur… of corse not.

Any car I tune at HondaTech, and all of the professionals I’m associated with around Australia will tune a car for maximum Performance and maximum Torque everywhere, from right off the line, to midrange to peak power, only a fool would tune one, but not the other, its about providing a complete solution. Of corse this does take time and advance knowledge of the “ECU” and engine being tuned. Maximum power/torque or Midrange power/ torque is purely a limitation to the modifications of each and every individual engine depended on condition and heath of the engine, fuel and altitude etc. With regards to track tuning you can vary the Vtec cross over point on “b d and h and f” engines to optimize torque response for coming out of corners, but this is typically set once and left at a maximum point, this is what I do for my DC2 GTP race car’s customers. Never have I found a professional race car driver complain “oh I have to much power or to much Torque at this RPM please de Tune me” Varying throttle allows a experience driver to vary the power delivered to the ground when and where required. Like wise on the Integra DC5 GTP race car’s we add a 3rd sum into the equation by varying the cam angle VTC to increase maximum cam angle on and off throttle, predicting the acceleration of the engine, to maintain power everywhere.

As for where your engine spends its time in a RPM range on the track, (depended on each and every race track, gear box ratio etc) but in general any one who datalogs any professional track racers will find 70%+ of the time is spend driving midrange than higher in the RPM, although it’s a combination of total RPM tuning that makes a difference.

Some of the tuners in Melbourne who I Recommend and know are experience with Motec and Honda Engines, Adrian from RazzTech Performance in Thomastown, Craig from Genesis Racing in Blackburn, and my self James from HondaTech, we all have had great street track and drag experience with Motec and Honda Engines, not 2 mention endless other experiences.

Regards James

**bumography** · 08-01-2005 06:46 PM

i prefer torque as i only drive on the streets.
A torque'ier car feels a lot faster when driving normally as opposed to a rev hungry machine.

**b20b** · 08-01-2005 07:26 PM

Whats the opinion on this ...If cam gears are adjusted and for eg. you lose 10-15 Hp in the top end but you have a considerable torque increase would this be better

**spoondc2** · 08-01-2005 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by b20b

Whats the opinion on this ...If cam gears are adjusted and for eg. you lose 10-15 Hp in the top end but you have a considerable torque increase would this be better

Is this due to improper tuning?
losing 10-15hp for NA is alot

**VTEC16** · 09-01-2005 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by BLKCRX

Hmmm

Something doesn’t add up here

or maybe everyone just thinks u can tune peak power.. dur… of corse not.

Any car I tune at HondaTech, and all of the professionals I’m associated with around Australia will tune a car for maximum Performance and maximum Torque everywhere, from right off the line, to midrange to peak power, only a fool would tune one, but not the other, its about providing a complete solution. Of corse this does take time and advance knowledge of the “ECU” and engine being tuned. Maximum power/torque or Midrange power/ torque is purely a limitation to the modifications of each and every individual engine depended on condition and heath of the engine, fuel and altitude etc. With regards to track tuning you can vary the Vtec cross over point on “b d and h and f” engines to optimize torque response for coming out of corners, but this is typically set once and left at a maximum point, this is what I do for my DC2 GTP race car’s customers. Never have I found a professional race car driver complain “oh I have to much power or to much Torque at this RPM please de Tune me” Varying throttle allows a experience driver to vary the power delivered to the ground when and where required. Like wise on the Integra DC5 GTP race car’s we add a 3rd sum into the equation by varying the cam angle VTC to increase maximum cam angle on and off throttle, predicting the acceleration of the engine, to maintain power everywhere.

As for where your engine spends its time in a RPM range on the track, (depended on each and every race track, gear box ratio etc) but in general any one who datalogs any professional track racers will find 70%+ of the time is spend driving midrange than higher in the RPM, although it’s a combination of total RPM tuning that makes a difference.

Some of the tuners in Melbourne who I Recommend and know are experience with Motec and Honda Engines, Adrian from RazzTech Performance in Thomastown, Craig from Genesis Racing in Blackburn, and my self James from HondaTech, we all have had great street track and drag experience with Motec and Honda Engines, not 2 mention endless other experiences.

Regards James

Originally Posted by b20b

Whats the opinion on this ...If cam gears are adjusted and for eg. you lose 10-15 Hp in the top end but you have a considerable torque increase would this be better

im not sure about the 10-15hp......but you can tune cam gears to favor certain parts (higher or lower) of the rev range.

Of course you want as much power as possible everywhere, but inherently you have to optimise one or the other (or a compromise of both).