new built 1950cc engine with gt3076r

[Scholzey]

i am confident if it happens again he will do the same. like he said.. they stand behind their product 100%, which is why he is going to the lengths he is to make sure that nothing can possibly happen block wise.

it just looks like the long list of prep work to the dart blocks now has a longer list, and nothing that is pre machined from dart can be trusted as plug and play.

so i guess i can insure the next block that endyn sends out will be trouble free.

[Slaz]

Those pretty crap mid sleeves are working just fine for me

Thats good to hear, but how many other mid sleeve builds do you know of and their issues, I know of about 10-15 and alot have had issues with sinking sleeves, it also depends on how much power your pushing, if you arnt pushing much, you'll tend to have less issues, problem with mid sleeves is so much of the original blocks strength and integrity is machined away to accomodate the sleeve.

Im not saying they dont work, im just saying they tend to have issues, more so ones pushing decent power due to flexing of the block. Cooling issues also seem to promote failures as the block will heat quicker then the sleeve hence causing issues between the block and the sleeve.

As for Larry offering warranty on this forever, id like to see that, as im sure if it gets fitted and runs for a decent period and does it again, it'll be less likely he would come to the party as with any "race engine" they are not given warranty, as failure can and does happen.

Goodluck though and welcome to the joys of playing with cars! ; )

[dai-16t]

Problems with mids come from fitment. Mine were done by a very reputable shop and I also use a erl 5 point main girdle so weakness I guess is non existent. Power wise I am at 430kw atw. No troubles yet.
Anyways back on the dart story.

[Slaz]

This is still about the Dart story, as you mentioned issues come fitment be that mids or whatever into an OEM block or Dart putting metal liners into their blocks, the OP had cooling issues and you will probably find this is what started the issue where the block was hot enough to allow the sleeve to become a little to lose and they drop, causing the head gasket to no longer seal so they either push oil or water due to combustion or allow either substance to enter the chamber.

[Scholzey]

engine light came one once from temps, and the problem was before this

im not sure how the sleeves sit in the block, but i would have thought that there are two square edges that touch and once bottomed out, they wouldnt be able to move. or is there a wedge to square edge?
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or

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how can a sleeve possibly sink if the surfaces are both square to eachother? or is that the problem?

it sounds like the not square thing was my problem when they tried the second time, because they machined it themselves after bad results on the first try on the second block..

lol

[turbotegs]

engine light came one once from temps, and the problem was before this

im not sure how the sleeves sit in the block, but i would have thought that there are two square edges that touch and once bottomed out, they wouldnt be able to move. or is there a wedge to square edge?
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or

\
.\_
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how can a sleeve possibly sink if the surfaces are both square to eachother? or is that the problem?

it sounds like the not square thing was my problem when they tried the second time, because they machined it themselves after bad results on the first try on the second block..

lol

I cant comment on how the dart block sleeves are located but i'm pretty sure they will have a flange at the top of the steel sleeve that locates into a machined recese in the aluminium block as per your first diagram.

As for the darton MID sleeves, if the machining and install of the sleeves are done properly there is no way that they can sink, there is a 5mm step that the sleeve sits on at the bottom of the water jacket. the usual issue is that the sleeve isn't sitting down hard when it is decked.

i've machined 6 blocks for darton MID sleeves and never had an issue and the block in my car was the first one we done and it has done 25000kms at 450+kw@wheels and it's never been touched.

In short all sleeved blocks regardless of manufacture are fine providing the workmanship off the install is perfect! Obviousily Slaz knows of some failures of darton sleeved blocks as do i, but it is most definitly not a fault of the design of the sleeve it is 100% down to the person who installed them incorrectly.

Anyway hopefully Scholzey has a better run this time round and we see the car out at the track again!

[TODA AU]

In short all sleeved blocks regardless of manufacture are fine providing the workmanship off the install is perfect! Obviousily Slaz knows of some failures of darton sleeved blocks as do i, but it is most definitly not a fault of the design of the sleeve it is 100% down to the person who installed them incorrectly.

Gotta agree, though I've had mixed results over the years, I definatly agree they need to be installed perfectly.
& the ones that have been have been issue free, some running for many years & still going.
But it's funny you say that, cause Slaz actually had a Darton sleeved block done by Darton themselves...
Long story short, the sleaves both dropped & went out of round. The block was sent back & they fed him the same sort of speal you just said. Now obviously the guy inspecting the block & doint the report haddn't spoken to the sales guys & visa versa as they then asked who did it. LOL...
You can imagine their surprise when the finger was pointing straight back at them LOL...
The're heaps of side issues also but that'd be off topic (& Slaz probably tells it better) but yeah I completly understand his lack of confidence in their product.

Re Dart blocks...
Sorry, can't say I'm a fan to be honest.
I've only used a few & they are definatly not without their issues.
Sleeves is one, then there are the main caps & the doosey... The silicon/sandy shiite that comes away from the casting after a few hrs of use that can be found in the last chance filter screen for the Vtec (WTF!)

[tinkerbell]

Re Dart blocks...
Sorry, can't say I'm a fan to be honest.
I've only used a few & they are definatly not without their issues.
Sleeves is one, then there are the main caps & the doosey... The silicon/sandy shiite that comes away from the casting after a few hrs of use that can be found in the last chance filter screen for the Vtec (WTF!)

according to this article - you are supposed to spend half a day addressing the effects of the sand-casting process:

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...t/viewall.html

LW: Honda blocks are die cast, whereas Dart blocks are sand-cast. Look at a Honda block and you'll notice how smooth it is relative to an aftermarket version. Internally and externally the Dart block is much rougher, which is why we spend about a half-day going through it to get rid of the coarseness and porosity. This helps oil drain back to the pan faster. We also open up all those passages and polish them for even greater efficiency. Honda heads need lots of oil to ensure valvetrain longevity, so we want to get the oil back to the pan fast to get it circulating.

[turbotegs]

Gotta agree, though I've had mixed results over the years, I definatly agree they need to be installed perfectly.
& the ones that have been have been issue free, some running for many years & still going.
But it's funny you say that, cause Slaz actually had a Darton sleeved block done by Darton themselves...
Long story short, the sleaves both dropped & went out of round. The block was sent back & they fed him the same sort of speal you just said. Now obviously the guy inspecting the block & doint the report haddn't spoken to the sales guys & visa versa as they then asked who did it. LOL...
You can imagine their surprise when the finger was pointing straight back at them LOL...
The're heaps of side issues also but that'd be off topic (& Slaz probably tells it better) but yeah I completly understand his lack of confidence in their product.

Hahaha, having heard that i can also understand Slaz's lack of confidence in darton!

[TODA AU]

according to this article - you are supposed to spend half a day addressing the effects of the sand-casting process:

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...t/viewall.html

LOL, I'm talking after you've done all that (& it actually takes more like a full day to get it all done)
& still the silicon casting shiite can appear...

[Slaz]

450 Still isnt a heap of power in a B series, the engine of question where a workshop was looking to sue the installer/machinist was Mid sleeves installed into a RB26 block. When they are pushing 1000hp+, no crank girdle or perfect install is going to stop that block deforming to a point the sleeves will fail, the insurer of the machinist hired an engineer who was at Ferrari and he found inherient flaws where a few engine types were named as being very prone to failing due to the block not having enough structure left to support the power levels they were asking of it.

Personally I will be using the new mid sleeve block I had redone but it seems that the solid sleeve blocks that ERL,GE, and a few others do, seem to have much less problems then the mids.

As for the Dart, ive seen one Adrian had to deal with and when you saw what happened, you really do wonder about the IQ of the guy who designed the caps and thrust face retention on that block.

[turbotegs]

450 Still isnt a heap of power in a B series, the engine of question where a workshop was looking to sue the installer/machinist was Mid sleeves installed into a RB26 block. When they are pushing 1000hp+, no crank girdle or perfect install is going to stop that block deforming to a point the sleeves will fail, the insurer of the machinist hired an engineer who was at Ferrari and he found inherient flaws where a few engine types were named as being very prone to failing due to the block not having enough structure left to support the power levels they were asking of it.

Personally I will be using the new mid sleeve block I had redone but it seems that the solid sleeve blocks that ERL,GE, and a few others do, seem to have much less problems then the mids.

As for the Dart, ive seen one Adrian had to deal with and when you saw what happened, you really do wonder about the IQ of the guy who designed the caps and thrust face retention on that block.

This is getting well off topic and i can appreciate that you have had issues with a darton block, but there is plenty off b series darton sleeved blocks that are making 1000hp in the states without issues, i agree that there are better sleeved blocks available but a well prepared and installed darton sleeved block will suffice for the majority of builds.

as for the nissan RB26 block that you speak of are you sure that it was a MID sleeved block? as Darton don't list a MID sleeve kit for the RB26 (unless it was a special?) only a dry replacement sleeve.