Accord Euro 2006 - Need assistance with potential issues

[darknoodles]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first time posting in this forum, so I apologise first if I do make a mistake.

Around 3 weeks ago, I acquired a second hand Accord Euro 2006 (auto) from another private seller. Standard model, no modifications at all, no accidents since new (so the seller claims and RTA record shows) and has done 80,000km mileage.

I have been driving the car very regularly for the last 3 weeks, and while it gets me from A to B, I can’t help but feel that there is something not quite right. Below is a list of strange “sensations” / “symptoms” which I’ve felt very consistently, and I’ve given my best to describe them.

I do realise they can sound very vague to the audience, but I hope you can throw me some recommendations as to what I can raise with my potential mechanic. Apologies as I’m just the average Joe and not fluent with car terminology. Please provide your 2c, and provide as much detail as you can. Even if you think they are “normal” for the Euro, I’d still like to know. The issues are not necessarily related (but they could be, I simply don’t know enough)

1. While traveling on low speed (e.g. below 40kmph), followed by letting the accelerator go (but without stepping on break) such that I start to “coast”, the RPM arrow would suddenly drop sharply below 1000rpm and then suddenly bounce back to above 1000rpm to maintain “coast”. In all other cars I’ve driven (including a Honda CRV), letting go of the accelerator to “coast” normally means RPM will simply drop to above 1000rpm and stay there to “coast”, but never doing a sharp bounce below 1000 and then suddenly go back above 1000rpm. This car does this “rpm bounce” when I let go of the accelerator to “coast” very very often.
   
   
2. Under normal circumstances the car is quiet and noise feels smooth. However there are often times, usually after letting go of the accelerator, that I can clearly and distinctly hear and feel mini vibrations from the front. It hears like a small drum is being played from within the engine, and the car also physically shakes a little (enough shaking that I can tell this apart from normal driving).
   
   
3. When going downhills, very often the 2nd / 3rd gear gets “stuck”, in the sense that the car will continue REVing up up and up without shifting to the next gear. As it is doing this, the car feels more shaky, and the steering wheel feels a lot harder / tougher to turn. At the same time, the drumming noise mentioned in 2) is very audible. When the downhill road finally becomes normal, the rpm (which is probably about 3000rpm because it never shifted to next gear while going downhills) will suddenly drop back to just below 2000rpm, and then everything is normal from then on.
   
   
4. When coming to a stop (either by breaking or coasting), there is often a single forward jerk. Just before this jerk, the car feels like it has a lot of forward thrust and the steering wheel is also hard to turn. The “RPM bounce” mentioned in 1) is sometimes noted as this happens. Then this one off forward jerk occurs, and car is normal afterwards (i.e. feels lighter and steering wheel no longer hard to turn).
   
   
5. Minor issue. Steering wheel – turning right is a lot heavier than turning left
   
   
6. Not an issue, but maybe helpful to know ? – I’ve just done the Honda Power Steering Hose recall at the dealer, about 2.5 weeks. When I got the car 3 weeks ago, the Power Steering Fluid was leaking. I’ve checked that the PSF no longer leaks.

Sorry if I have provided a bunch of useless descriptions, but I hope there can be some helpful responses to some of these symptoms. You may ask “why don’t you just go to your mechanic in the first place”, but I realise that it is very hard to explain these symptoms to them. I’m relying on the experience of this forum on the Euro to see if anyone knows about any of the above issues, and hopefully can provide me with more specific advice. At which point, a mechanic will atleast have some directions to go by as opposed to listening to me rambling on about the symptoms.

Hope to hear some tips.


Thanks in advance,
David

[Fredoops]

There's no way for you to know if car had been in accident or not from RTA records, write-off you can see on RTA records, accidents you can't.

Point 1: rpm drop/hike on cruise is normal If you let off gas ten press cruise, I think the manual says you set cruise THEN foot off pedal. Ps: iirc the cruise don't work below 60kph on the euro.

Point 2: about the shake from letting go of the gas pedal, first check the pulleys and belt, then check airbox/filter, but it might also be from valves.... Do your car sound like diesel some times? If so get valve clearance checked/adjusted. Might also come down to dirty Engine/injectors/throttle body... Run BP ultimate for a while and see if that go away... Or have FI system completely cleaned.

Point 3: It's engine braking, normal

Point 4: see point 2 check the pulley/belt that drives the ps pump etc. I've got same issue, it probably the pulley belt etc on it's way out

Point 5: check tyre pressure/wear. Then probably a wheel alignment.

Point 6: yeah there was a recall.

[Lazarus]

With number 3
Is it usually after you hit 60km and let go of the accel that it starts to feel...like something is pulling your car back?

[Fredoops]

Read point 3 again... It's defintely normal, it that "GradeLogic" crap at play, it senses the incline/decline and adjust engine accordingly... Aka: the recent advertisements you see on TV for the Civic Si

[darknoodles]

Thanks very much Fredoops, i will try to reply on each point...

Point 1: rpm drop/hike on cruise is normal If you let off gas ten press cruise, I think the manual says you set cruise THEN foot off pedal. Ps: iirc the cruise don't work below 60kph on the euro.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean by "set cruise". Can you please clarify ? If you mean cruise control, then that's definitely not the case. So to give a simple example: from stationary, i hit the gas uniformly untill car is say mid gear 2 (say 30kmph), and then i just lift my foot off the gas (but not putting it on break). As soon as my foot leaves the gas, the rpm arrow drops below 1000rpm, and immediately bounces back to above 1000rpm (and then stays there).

When you do this on most cars, doesn't the rpm just fall to above 1000rpm and stay there ? i.e. there is never that dramatic bounce below 1000 and then back up.

Never happens on higher speed / gears, only on slow speed / low gears.

Point 2: about the shake from letting go of the gas pedal, first check the pulleys and belt, then check airbox/filter, but it might also be from valves.... Do your car sound like diesel some times? If so get valve clearance checked/adjusted. Might also come down to dirty Engine/injectors/throttle body... Run BP ultimate for a while and see if that go away... Or have FI system completely cleaned.

Thanks those are useful starters. Yes, i would say the "drumming noise" is somewhat diesel-sounding (although not as loud, but clearly distinguishable from normal). That's alot of suggestions though, can you list them in descending order of likelihood (i.e. first one being the most likely and last one being least probable) ? What will a mechanic charge for them ? Sorry i'm very new to all this.

I've fueled up with 98 Octane twice during the 3 weeks i've owned the car. Although i suspect the previous owner may have used E10. Does prolonged use of E10 harm the Euro ? And if so is it reversible ? Would it help explain any of the symptoms i'm experiencing ?

Point 3: It's engine braking, normal

Really ? So there is no ways to ease that sensation ? I live in neighborhood with lots of hills and this is very annoying. Never happens in previous cars i've driven (incluidng a Honda CRV)

So to give a simple example again. Road is normal (flat), everything is normal. Then road goes downhill, and the REV arrow slowly goes up up and up, all this time the engine feels like its stalling, steering wheel is very hard to turn, and the car just feels "heavier" (not sure how else to word it). REV just climbs higher and higher but never shifts into next gear. Its like the car is really struggling or stuck on something, hence i used the term "stuck" on a gear. Vibration and shakes are felt.

For the same going downhill scenario, if i put the car in N, then everything is just fine as i go down the hill - no heavy sensations and no vibrations / shake.

Point 4: see point 2 check the pulley/belt that drives the ps pump etc. I've got same issue, it probably the pulley belt etc on it's way out

Is this a replaceable part and if so how much does it generally cost for a mechanic to replace it ?

Point 5: check tyre pressure/wear. Then probably a wheel alignment.

Okay thanks.

[dr1ft3r]

For point 1 & 2, I suspect the throttle body. Have it clean.

[dr1ft3r]

aaronng might have better answer than me........

[Fredoops]

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean by "set cruise". Can you please clarify ? If you mean cruise control, then that's definitely not the case. So to give a simple example: from stationary, i hit the gas uniformly untill car is say mid gear 2 (say 30kmph), and then i just lift my foot off the gas (but not putting it on break). As soon as my foot leaves the gas, the rpm arrow drops below 1000rpm, and immediately bounces back to above 1000rpm (and then stays there).

When you do this on most cars, doesn't the rpm just fall to above 1000rpm and stay there ? i.e. there is never that dramatic bounce below 1000 and then back up.
Never happens on higher speed / gears, only on slow speed / low gears.

Reset the ECU maybe? Cause I think it's not really an issue.

Also try to stick the automatic box in "manual mode" stick in second or something, try the same method as above, and see if the same sensation occurs, if not, then it's the auto transmission being confused about what gear to put the car in.

Thanks those are useful starters. Yes, i would say the "drumming noise" is somewhat diesel-sounding (although not as loud, but clearly distinguishable from normal). That's alot of suggestions though, can you list them in descending order of likelihood (i.e. first one being the most likely and last one being least probable) ? What will a mechanic charge for them ? Sorry i'm very new to all this.

If it's not loud and is seprate from sound of the pistons (engine)... then it pretty much leave the pulley belt... dunno how much it is to replace tho.

I've fueled up with 98 Octane twice during the 3 weeks i've owned the car. Although i suspect the previous owner may have used E10. Does prolonged use of E10 harm the Euro ? And if so is it reversible ? Would it help explain any of the symptoms i'm experiencing

Most people on the forum say it's okay to use E10 (because the manufacturer says it's okay to use up to E10). But Im going to stick my head out and say otherwise, E10 contains water content, theres the equivlent of a whole glass of water in every full tank of E10 (approx 6% of the 10% Ethanol is water, approx 360mls in a 60 ltr tank)

Also, the petrol stations that sells 95 octane E10 are never the major retailers, and the quality of fuel are rather unstable.

So I stay away from E10 personally.

If car has been using E10 for a long time I suspect engine is be "dirtier" than usual.. Give it a good oil change (with decent thin-ish full syn oil... if there is any corrosive leaks from gaskets etc you'll know real quick), do a FI system clean (which also cleans throttle body iirc, you should see how much gunk was flushed out of my car when I did the FI system clean at 100,000k service and thenhow much dirty stuff was flushed out when I changed from crappy dino oil to full syn), and run 98 octane BO Ultimate or Caltex Vortex for a while and you should be okay.

Really ? So there is no ways to ease that sensation ? I live in neighborhood with lots of hills and this is very annoying. Never happens in previous cars i've driven (incluidng a Honda CRV)

So to give a simple example again. Road is normal (flat), everything is normal. Then road goes downhill, and the REV arrow slowly goes up up and up, all this time the engine feels like its stalling, steering wheel is very hard to turn, and the car just feels "heavier" (not sure how else to word it). REV just climbs higher and higher but never shifts into next gear. Its like the car is really struggling or stuck on something, hence i used the term "stuck" on a gear. Vibration and shakes are felt.
For the same going downhill scenario, if i put the car in N, then everything is just fine as i go down the hill - no heavy sensations and no vibrations / shake.

Yep, it's GradeLogic.

You can always manually shift the gear up.

[darknoodles]

Reset the ECU maybe? Cause I think it's not really an issue.

I know i may be pedantic....But seeing the RPM arrow bounce up and down wildly just isn't very comforting.

What is the ECU and how can it be reset (is it a mechanic job) ?

Also try to stick the automatic box in "manual mode" stick in second or something, try the same method as above, and see if the same sensation occurs, if not, then it's the auto transmission being confused about what gear to put the car in.

Good idea i will give the manual mode a try. But if the transmission is being "confused" as you say, is there anything i (or a mechanic visit) can do to improve it ?

If it's not loud and is seprate from sound of the pistons (engine)... then it pretty much leave the pulley belt... dunno how much it is to replace tho.

It is not deafening loud...but clearly audiable when it does occur. Can't tell if it is the sound of pistons. I'll definitely keep the pulley belt in mind. Any other suggestions, considering the other things i've mentioned ?

Most people on the forum say it's okay to use E10 (because the manufacturer says it's okay to use up to E10). But Im going to stick my head out and say otherwise, E10 contains water content, theres the equivlent of a whole glass of water in every full tank of E10 (approx 6% of the 10% Ethanol is water, approx 360mls in a 60 ltr tank)

Also, the petrol stations that sells 95 octane E10 are never the major retailers, and the quality of fuel are rather unstable.

So I stay away from E10 personally.

If car has been using E10 for a long time I suspect engine is be "dirtier" than usual.. Give it a good oil change (with decent thin-ish full syn oil... if there is any corrosive leaks from gaskets etc you'll know real quick), do a FI system clean (which also cleans throttle body iirc, you should see how much gunk was flushed out of my car when I did the FI system clean at 100,000k service and thenhow much dirty stuff was flushed out when I changed from crappy dino oil to full syn), and run 98 octane BO Ultimate or Caltex Vortex for a while and you should be okay.

Yes i will continue to run atleast 95 Octane in the future. The only reason i used 98 Octane in the last 3 weeks was to see if the above symptoms would disappear, which none of them did...

Yep, it's GradeLogic.

You can always manually shift the gear up.

Okay thanks....i'll just to learn to live with it.

[Fredoops]

I know i may be pedantic....But seeing the RPM arrow bounce up and down wildly just isn't very comforting.

What is the ECU and how can it be reset (is it a mechanic job) ?

ECU, the computer that controls all the engine stuff. Reset by disconnecting battery terminal, wait 10 min, reconnect battery terminal. google on how to do it, theres plenty of info around.

Good idea i will give the manual mode a try. But if the transmission is being "confused" as you say, is there anything i (or a mechanic visit) can do to improve it ?

Nope, reset ECU as per above, then it might reset the drive by wire memery from the previous owner. The Euro's got electronic throttle (aka: theres a lag), so you'd probably better off beng more "sure footed" when it comes to acclerating.

It is not deafening loud...but clearly audiable when it does occur. Can't tell if it is the sound of pistons. I'll definitely keep the pulley belt in mind. Any other suggestions, considering the other things i've mentioned ?

nope, i'm putting the money on the pulley belt.

Yes i will continue to run atleast 95 Octane in the future. The only reason i used 98 Octane in the last 3 weeks was to see if the above symptoms would disappear, which none of them did...

Give the car an oil change.

Always give allowance for major service (or at least an oil change) when buying a second hand vehicle.

[darknoodles]

For point 1 & 2, I suspect the throttle body. Have it clean.

Thank you. Both of you have suggested this and so i'll keep that in mind too. I'll wait to see if there are more responses.

[darknoodles]

Thanks very much Fredoops.

Hope to see more opinions like yours.