Juice cuts out when starting

[rling]

Hi all
I bought a used VTI a few weeks ago. So far so good.

A couple of times last week when turning the key, the motor would turn over a couple of times normally, then suddenly it barely turns as if the battery is very low. At the same time the dash lights dim and the fuel needle drops to empty.
But then the next second, the lights come back up and it starts normally.

Last night for the first time, it didn't start first time (if that makes sense). I tried 3-4 times with it barely turning over, I thought I was stuck, then the next time it started as if there was no problem.

I don't think it could be the battery itself cause it has plenty juice when it works.
Whatever it is, affecting all the electrics, lights and fuel gauge as well as the starter motor.

Is there anything I should loook for?
I'm nervous about getting stranded somewhere now.

Cheers
R

[ash_dhs]

im no prob but sounds like it could be the starter motor slowly dieing out or might even be the alternator not holding charge

if u have a voltmeter u can check the alternator

[gre03]

could it be the engine flooding?

[grifty]

check if your battery terminals are tight and clean.

[rling]

Thanks for the help!
I'm not a pro either, otherwise I'd know what was wrong

The battery won't charge without the engine running. So if the starter barely turns over one minute, then turns over fine the next minute, the battery has not been charged in between, so it must have plenty juice, just the juice is not getting to the starter cause of some intermittent glitch. So I think the alternator is probably OK.... does it make sense?

Could be the starter motor failing, though power to the electrics in the dash is being reduced too, maybe the starter motor or something else has an intermittent short, but not enough to re-route all the power away from the dash or blow a fuse??

If its engine flooding, how do I prevent it?

Also I wonder about the immobilizer, what happens if it thinks my key is bad? (I think I read something that says it cuts the fuel supply so the motor should still turn over fine, just not start)

Still confused..... #$$@?%!!

Cheers
R

[rling]

battery terminals are clean and tight, but I haven't checked with a meter. Will do today. I think the no-load voltage should be around 13V plus??

Cheers
R

[GU357]

just a guess but could it be your earth?
(my dads suggestion, hes a mechanic but more knowledgeable on older vehicles)

Best thing to do is test battery

also is it AT or MT?

[ss-rotel]

i THINK you've got a dropped cell on you're battery. a 12v battery is a bunch of cells, or batteries, and if one stops producing power properly, voltage might not drop, but cold cranking will be effected. the Jazz has a little battery, obviously, so this is a problem.

Out of my 2 Jazz's, i've had to replace batteries for this problem on both. (even managed to get 1/2 the cost out of honda for the 1st one. Happened withing 30,000km)

I ended up buying a deep cycle from Battery World for both, and no problem since. I also runa 1F cap on my stereo to help with battery drain, (amoung other things), ... cost me $170 or something? when/if this one let's go, i'll move the battery to the boot, and run a bit optima or somthing, (big-ish stereo)

Hope this helps

[rling]

OK, more on this starting problem. I was away for 5 weeks, so the delay.
On getting back from 5 weeks away, the car would not start. Same problem (motor struggles to turn over) but worse than before, and would not work after a dozen or so attempts to start. On the final attempt, the clock/radio lost enough power to reset the time to 12:00.

I called NRMA and got a specialist battery tech to visit. He attached a tester and confirmed the battery was at end of life (was the original battery from 2007). Replacement battery was $150 (I was too lazy and jetlagged to worry about this).
There is a warning label on the battery lead which reads (more or less) "after disconnecting battery, refer to a Honda dealer or severe damage to CVT transmission will result". The NRMA tech said he always uses an auxiliary power source when changing batteries to avoid this problem, but since the clock had reset, the ECU may also have cleared and I should call Honda anyway. I did this and the Honda service tech said it would need recalibrating for $66. I asked how to get it there without damage and he said, quote, "you can drive it for short distances, just not for long distances". I asked him to define "short" and "long" and he couldn't. Anyway better safe than sorry so I just paid out my $66. Ouch (again!). I couldn't feel any change in how it handles before/after the "recalibration", though I only drove straight to the Honda dealer which was a few kms.
Only started the car about 3 times so far with the new battery, but it turns over at MUCH higher speed than the old battery.

I also found out there is another possible cause: a faulty ignition key! I copy the linked posts here in case it goes away:

Our 2003 CVT simply refused to start on occasions. The engine turned over, even when warm/hot without problem, but would simply not start. The snag was highly intermittant- if engine was allowed to "cool" the fault seemed to solve itself. ALL lights on the dashboard came on normally every time.
It was surmised it was the EGR valve- and I see other posts which offer this as the source of the problem
The car was sent for service- I was gob-smacked to be advised the fault was the IGNITION key! How so I wondered- and still do!
Nonetheless, it is easy to try the original faulty key and one is immediately plagued by intermittant hot start problems. Changing to the spare key solves the snag every time.
I can offer no explanation as once the barrel of the ignition lock turns, as one starts the engine, one would have thought, the actual key used was working properly. I can only report that changing to what had been the "spare" key, solved the problem!

That would be due to the immobiliser. If the transponder in the key doesn't respond reliably, the immobiliser will kick in.

My battery was definitely bad, but the intermittent starting problem (even hot starts) sounds like the key. So if this problem reappears with the new battery I'll switch to the spare key and see if it helps.

Cheers
R

[Paul.Z]

NRMA: No Real Mechanic Available

[fillit]

i have removed the battery from my jazz several times, albeit it was a manual, i have had experienced similar symptoms to what you have been experiencing and yes i believe the battery was the culprit.. I had a rsm installed so i could read the voltage, if it was below about 11.7V i was not able to start the car. you may want to check your wiring incase you have anything draining it. Personally on my AE111 my battery kept dying because my defi gauges were removed and the wiring was abit dodgy.

as for the key, i don't believe that applies in your scenario, in that one the engine does not even turn over... it's basically nothing happens which is what would happen if the immoboliser was activated. As your car is actually turning over it sounds more like an electrical issue. does your battery have an indicator? if so check it periodically.

[ss-rotel]

your battery has dropped a cell. i'd almost place money on it.
A 12v battery is made up of lots of batterys in casing, and if one fails, you'll still get power, just not much.

so far both my jazz's have had the OEM battery do this after between 50,000 and 80,000kms and if you're REALLY lucky, you might be able to get honda to cover some of the cost of a new battery.

but they WILL replace it with another OEM battery, that will fail in 50,000km or so

i replaced mine with the biggest one i could buy that would fit, that wasn't an gell cell anyway, (couldn't bring myself to spend $350 on a battery) hasn't been an issue since.

oh, and even if the "indicator" shows it's full, it can still have a dead cell.