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[CL9]&[CU2] You got Automatic transmission? *you'll WANT to read this*


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  1. #1
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    Exclamation [All Accords] You got Automatic transmission? *you'll WANT to read this*

    *UPDATES SEE BELOW*


    HONDAMATIC

    This is more of an info thread about the H5 series Auto tranny we have in our Euro's (and accords, and CR-V's etc etc). And issues arise from it, figured I'd clear a few things up.


    About Honda "Automatic" Transmission (Hondamatic)
    Now, Honda auto transmission is unique. Honda auto tranny do not use planetary gears like everyone else. Instead, our trannys are just like a manual with individual gears on parallel axes like a manual transmission operated by stator torque rather than hydraulics. So in essence, it's a hybrid of a automated manual transmission and a normal automatic transmission.

    Advantages:
    Is that it's more efficient for low torque engines as it sucks less power/torque when used on a 4 cylinder car, and it's physical size is smaller than a traditional automatic.


    Disadvantages
    ... well....Honda auto transmissions are known to operate at a higher temp than other traditional auto's. This is because:

    1. It's physical size means less surface/internal area to spread the heat around (think heatsink in your computer), this is not a major factor however...
    2. The Main problem is it's design (without plantary gears), clutches cannot be larger in radius than the distance between shafts. As result torque must be handled by a smaller diameter clutch compared to traditional auto transmissions
    - IN plain english this means higher operating pressure, greater component stress, as result: more heat, more wear/tear.


    So what?
    For us 4cyl owners its not THAT bad, the poor buggers are those in V6's (same tranny, HIGHER torque), there were cases of engine overheating from the auto tranny overheating in the Accords in the US. And there had been a class action against Honda about the transmission. In theory, our Euro's should be safe.
    - Having said that, the K24 we have in our Euro's are about as torquey as the Honda 4cyl's go. So we'll probably want to be on the careful side.


    What do I do?
    Frequent ATF change is probably a necessity not a luxury. and in terms of ATF, considering the more stressful and higher temp nature of the honda auto transmission, I'd question the suitability of Honda OEM ATF-Z1, having said that, even Honda had replaced the Z1 with ATF-DW1 earlier this year(2011), DW1 is a new ATF fluid which is said to be more temperature/stress tolerant. DW1 is now the only ATF available from the Honda dealer (2013)

    Note: in some countries transmission fluid and filter are replaced much more often than Australia, for example, in China, 4 cylinder accords have a tranny fluid change every 40k km and tranny filter every 80k km.

    Alternatives OEM ATF?
    There is nothing "special" with OEM Honda ATF, it's not unicorn sperm. Synthetic fluid *should* have a higher flash point (flash point is the temp which the fluid is vaporized)....

    ATF-Z1 Alternatives (pre-2010)
    • Aisin AFW+
    • Amsoil Multi vehicle/universal ATF
    • Nulon Multi vehicle ATF
    • Penrite Multi vehicle ATF
    • Redline D4
    • Valvoline Maxlife Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic
    • Chief Mohican Auto Transmission Fluid - Synthetic Multi-Vehicle


    ATF DW1 Alternatives (Updated Jan 2016...)
    Synthetic ATF-DW1 capable ATF (by the looks of it, DW1 is thinner). Take note: DW-1 seems to be called a different name in Japan - ATF-Z1 *ULTRA*
    • Aisin AFW+
    • Nulon Multi vehicle ATF
    • Penrite ATF LV (LV: Low Viscosity) *NEW*
    • Redline D6
    • AMSOIL Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid


    TTransmission filter? What transmission filter?? (added Sept 2012)

    The dealership will likely to tell you there is no transmission filter. LIE!
    There is a transmission filter. Part number 25430-PLR-003 (SAME FOR CL9 & CU2)
    It is serviceable, it sits between the fuse box and the transmission

    Pic of the location of the filter (CL9):
    http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a.../Misc/I4AT.jpg
    Pic of the location of the filter (CU2 - *ITEM NUMBER 5*):
    http://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-pa...pipe-l4-2-scat
    Pic of the filter part:
    http://f.rimg.com.tw/s1/f/8b/a5/21112200931237_92_m.jpg

    Shift solenoid service!!
    Yes there is a way to refresh your transmission by replacing the shift solenoid:
    http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/1st-ge.../topics/114698

    Further Readings
    (Honda auto) Design Limitations Causes Slipping Transmission Clutches
    Techanical discussion on Honda Auto tranny
    New recall on auto tranny, 1.5 million cars affected (USA)
    Honda Transmission problems Seems to Persist (New York Times)
    "HotFlashing" ATF change method
    An unimpressed Australia Honda customerhttp://www.brisdance.com/Honda/AutoPage.html
    Discussing on tranny filter on the Acura RDX http://rdx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803129
    Discussion on filters on the Accords (I4 & V6)http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14699

    transmission codes

    RSX, TSX, Accord: (MRMA, MCTA, MCLA, BCLA)
    CR-V: (MCVA, MRVA, MZKA, MKYA, GPPA, GPKA)


    Update 1 - May 2012

    (thank you HONTUNE form hondadynamiks in Adelaide)
    ATF-DW1 has now officially entered the country! Honda Australia had advised dealers that all CU2's and Legends must run this fluid.


    Update 2 - Sept 2012
    added a section re:filter.

    Update 3 - May 2013
    ATF Filter Alert.
    For those who are looking at installing a magnefine filter, please note the patent had lapsed on the filter so there are now Chinese copies around.
    I have one such copy on my car now, so far so good but it had been reported that some of those Chinese copies leak.
    So if you have a "Raybestos" filter, please check your filter to see if it is leaking and your auto tranny fluid level.


    Update 4: June 2013
    Updated ATF section, seems the local oil makers (Nulon & Penrite) also make synthetic ATF for Honda Z1, added them for good measure. *support local business*

    Update 5: June 2013
    Heres a tip on how to drain more than 3 ltr out of your tranny in one go
    http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...=1#post3765617

    Update 6: August 2013
    DIY guide on how to replace ATF fluid and filter
    http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...77#post3794177

    Update 7: Nov 2013
    Another good link
    http://autorepairservice.wordpress.c...at-low-speeds/

    Update 8: Jan 2014
    There are now ATF DW1 alternatives on the market, for those CU2/Legend owners... or any honda built post 2011. Seems that Honda dealers have recently jacked up the price of DW1.... it now cost more than the Amsoil equivalent.

    Update 9: NOV 2014
    Jdm speak: you'll be hard pressed to find atf-dw1 in the Japanese domestic market. It seems that the dw1 is called something else there: atf-z1 Ultra, ultra is just Honda speak for synthetic fluid.

    Update 10: Feb 2015, Transmission solenoid. Switch replacement
    http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/1st-ge.../topics/114698

    Update 11: March 2015, CU2 transmission filter location and part number
    CU2 transmission filter sits at a different location than CL9, same part number for filter

    Update 12: Jan 2016, New ATF for DW1
    Penrite has a new product out, new ATF thats DW1 friendly, it's the ATF LV (low viscosity)

    Update 13: June 2017, New ATF for DW1 and Z1 added
    this is an interesting development, AISIN, the Japanese transmission manufacturer who makes transmission for Toyota and a large number of European cars, who happens to make automatic transmissions that's a similar design to Honda's have came up with a ATF product. http://aisinaftermarket.jp/en/products/atf/index.html
    Last edited by Fredoops; 07-06-2017 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Update 13
    2003 CL9 5AT *ECU REFLASHED*
    CT-E Icebox|Ralco RZ pulleys|K&N filter|DC Header|250cell Cat|Cusco Tower & H Brace| H.Drive Coilovers | Rays RE30 18x8.5 | S/S Brakelines | Rigid Collars

  2. #2
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    Wow. Great stuff Fredoops (as always)

    I've never got the ATF changed on my '06, and it has now done 118,500 kms. Hmm.. maybe I should book in for the 120k major service right now.

  3. #3
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    so wat about manual?

  4. #4
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    ooo thx for that! will def need to change my ATF more freq

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by boleh View Post
    Wow. Great stuff Fredoops (as always)

    I've never got the ATF changed on my '06, and it has now done 118,500 kms. Hmm.. maybe I should book in for the 120k major service right now.
    Time to switch to a better ATF fluid than the Honda crap IMO.
    Australia doesn't seem to have any of the new ATF-dw1 honda released earlier this year, which is a better fluid from what I've heard

    If you are in Melbourne hit up "performancelub.com" for some cheap AMSOIL universal ATF. At $18 a quart it's only $2.50 more per More than the Honda dealer OEM ATF-z1 which honda charge $16.50 a liter, they are in melbourne too.
    Last edited by Fredoops; 07-09-2011 at 04:21 PM.
    2003 CL9 5AT *ECU REFLASHED*
    CT-E Icebox|Ralco RZ pulleys|K&N filter|DC Header|250cell Cat|Cusco Tower & H Brace| H.Drive Coilovers | Rays RE30 18x8.5 | S/S Brakelines | Rigid Collars

  6. #6
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    i use nulon multi syn-atf

    hope this helps.
    '05 Accord Euro Luxury 'Sports', Hah!

    Looking For Wing-less CL9 Graphite Boot - Willing to discuss trade for boot with wing!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by glazewolf View Post
    I've always wondered how we could cool down the transmission fluid/transmission... and would cooling it down help decrease wear and tear?
    Yes, a lot of US Accord V6 owners add transmission oil coolers to their transmission fluid line to reduce the fluid tempature, having said that, it's quite a bit of a DIY.

    Changing to a better fluid is probably the easiest to do.
    2003 CL9 5AT *ECU REFLASHED*
    CT-E Icebox|Ralco RZ pulleys|K&N filter|DC Header|250cell Cat|Cusco Tower & H Brace| H.Drive Coilovers | Rays RE30 18x8.5 | S/S Brakelines | Rigid Collars

  8. #8
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    I can vouch for performancelub good guy sat at his house talking for an hour when bought my spark plugs and awesome prices

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredoops View Post
    Time to switch to a better ATF fluid than the Honda crap IMO.
    Australia doesn't seem to have any of the new ATF-dw1 honda released earlier this year, which is a better fluid from what I've heard

    If you are in Melbourne hit up "performancelub.com" for some cheap AMSOIL universal ATF. At $18 a quart it's only $2.50 more per More than the Honda dealer OEM ATF-z1 which honda charge $16.50 a liter, they are in melbourne too.
    correction
    performanceclub.com

  10. #10
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    No it is www.performancelub.com it stands for lubricant

  11. #11
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    Club/lube... Doesn't matter... at least no one call themselves K Y... Oh wait....

    ANYWAY... Check out their Amsoil stuff, I'm going with redline D4 this time because of logistical issues, but regardless whether it's Redline or Amsoil, they are both IMO better than Honda OEM atf-z1.

    Don't get me wrong, Honda OEM is fine... Till the warranty runs out.
    Last edited by Fredoops; 07-09-2011 at 09:40 PM.
    2003 CL9 5AT *ECU REFLASHED*
    CT-E Icebox|Ralco RZ pulleys|K&N filter|DC Header|250cell Cat|Cusco Tower & H Brace| H.Drive Coilovers | Rays RE30 18x8.5 | S/S Brakelines | Rigid Collars

  12. #12
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    Great info Fred.

    On a side note, how often do you guys change your ATF?
    Comment, rate my beats!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/deewhy88

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