Whats The Best Stage 2 Cam To Use In a B18cr??

[Slaz]

i got a k20 with 6 speed gearbox under 5k LOL, he has 10k to run with from his previous posts. and k24 would be even cheaper, b series is a waste of time/money IMO

How much for the associated parts and fitting though roughly on a k set-up?

[DLO01]

Lets keep to topic please.

[TODA AU]

Bla... bla... bla...
Did i miss anything?
Bla.. Bla...bla...

Yup... You missed the powertarget - Big time

- Your head port is obviously done by an expert that knows what his time is worth...
- Gasket match is a big step backwards.
- TB is a waste of money
- Your intake is a defect - straight up.
- Camshaft selection is critical, not anyone will do...
- Cam pulleys (not gears) need to be reliable. So not just anything will do. (+ a vernier scale makes a huge differnce)
- Springs & ret's need to be that which is recommended by the cam manufacturer, nothing else.
- AEM is the prince of darkness as far as Honda aftermarket ECU's go. There are plently of better systems available.
- Your exhaust is likley done by the same head expert who values his time & to meet the power target you simply won't with an ebay header.
- Heat sheild gasket = snake oil
- Reroute colant lines - whoopie... Theoretical power, try measuring the change, lol

[Scholzey]

why does no one talk about rev range?

what about bottom end? what about compression?

that will dictate the design of everything else.

im sure the torque of a stock b18c will only be beaten by a relatively small amount no matter what you do, if static compression is kept the same and pump fuel is used.

if the same compression ratio is used, you are only going to get more power from more revs. how many revs do stock bottom end guys like to go? that would be the first question.

pick cams that match the rev range you use. im not sure about alot of the cams you guys are talking about, but are you able to stand a slightly rougher idle, and go for cams with a larger primary and secondary cam profile like jun like to do, if you run a higher compression bottom end, you can get away with it on pump fuel with bigger low cam.

after you pick rev range you can decide on length and diameter of your exhaust runners and the type of merge they use 4-2-1 or 4-1 im unsure of the benifits of each of these compared to eachother.

rpm range dictates intake manifold runner length and area, and also plenum volume.

the most effective way to get the power you want is to run a setup with all the parts designed to work together, to match the size and potental of your bottom end.

it sounds like todas solution is like this. although this may seem expensive, it is almost a guaranteed result, depending on how your bottom end health is.

im sure there are other companys out there that provide complete solutions, but make sure they are proven.

buying a complete solution will help you avoid trying swapping out parts blindly trying to make power. which costs more in the end.



also toda au, the guy barely said a brand or type for any of the things he listed next to the prices, how can you say that any of that wont work purely based on its price?
intake pipe and computer is the only thing he has listed. you say the intake pipe will be an instant defect? what computer do you plan to use? hondata s100? how many other options are legal?

how can you say cutting out excess gasket thats in the airflows path is a big step backwards?

ok i have no idea what i have writen, but it took a long time..

[Alexplicit]

^^^^^^ this guy must be Jcck's Head Expert mechanic!!!

[rhys.l]

Haha this thread is hilarious. Anyone who isn't on the Toda bandwagon is getting slagged on big time. I respect Toda_au and the results he is able to achieve using Toda components, but there are other, just as valid paths you can take to add power to your engine and the day Ozhonda doesn't recognise this will be very sad indeed.

[TODA AU]

Scholzey
You did write a bit, LOL… (I will too in reply)
Ok, I didn’t mention rev range as the OP indicated a budget that doesn’t allow for a bottom end build if the power target is actually going to be addressed.
As such, that narrows the work to top end of the engine & so a rev limit of approx. 8800rpm
(stock bottom end & cams, springs etc.) You could go more, but at your own peril, plus the lack of higher compression tends to limit your peak rev power potential beyond 8500rpm.
Though you may be sure the torque won’t change, it in fact does & quite significantly.
The reason is the improvement to the engine’s volumetric efficiency.(it’s ability to consume air)
& that’s where the idea that only more revs will produce more power is incorrect.
Regarding picking a cam to suit your rev range, this idea sounds plausible at 1st glance & is if you know what you’re doing. But if you don’t, the market place is basically a minefield of mostly garbage & a few truly great parts. Unfortunately, when the customer does his research & buys his own cams, most people tend to over cam their engines to the detriment of power potential.
Of course, that’s not to say it can’t be done, it’s just not as straight forward as it appears on the surface.
Also, the “lumpy idle” is another myth about big cams. Vtec engines don’t have this problem.
There is a low cam & a high cam. When set up correctly, 99% of them have very good idle quality.
Sure, it’s a little rougher than stock, but by no means lumpy so to speak.
FWIW, these are the cams I rate for the std bottom end B18C application in order of effectiveness.
TODA A2’s or B’s, Rocket Motorsport M22x or xx, Skunk 2 Pro 1, BuddyClub Spec IV, Skunk2 Tuner 1
As for getting it right, time & time again it’s been said, it’s all about combination.
There needs to be a balance between cam selection, header, intake etc.
Get it wrong & you wasted your money. Get it right & you’re laughing.

Same goes for picking the lengths & diameters of pipes etc. & making your own headers.
If you know what you’re doing sure, go for it. You’ll likely burn a hole in your pocket & be slower than you would if you used a proven product but that’s your call.
As for off the shelf header’s that work… (Depending on cam selection)
TODA, Hytech, SMSP – & use real ones for best results.
Ebay cheapies will be ok if the power target is revised down, but don’t expect to make 140.
The other thing that headers change (a lot) is power output characteristic.
(If the head hasn’t been stuffed up by some clown)
This is where the Toda’s shine, anyway I digress

Regarding intake manifold & throttle,
Re engine type in OP, the factory parts from B18CR engine are fine, these do not need to be changed.

Regarding: “ the guy barely said a brand or type for any of the things he listed next to the prices, how can you say that any of that wont work purely based on its price?”
If you’re going to make claims about there being a better way, you need to back it up with specifics or to be frank you’re just talking out your arse.
I’ve been there & done that wasting countless hours on the dyno being “Harry Potter” turning other people’s Shiite into chocolate.
Fact is cheap, cheap internet research combo’s don’t work… Time & time again I see young guys waste money on cheap crap cause they’re too impatient to save up & do it once & do it right.
They read dribble online that is basically baseless bullshit & take it on board. This is a problem.
Sure, I guess I could be more polite. But if I treat everyone like silkworms they don’t get the message.
Eg: A $500 head port & service? One can only imagine the level of workmanship & attention to detail at this cost level. & it’s the attention to detail that matters here.
Further if you’re going to pull the head, the key to making more grunt is getting the valve angles right, this is cheap horsepower, but when $500 has to cover porting too, you can forget CNC 5 angles. You’d be lucky to have 2 ground by hand.

Re: ECU – Hondata is a much smarter option than AEM. There are plenty of other ECU’s out there that are better than the AEM too. But the Hondata is probably the closest to being legal.
Power FC, Link G4, Vipec, Haltech Platinum etc…

Re: “how can you say cutting out excess gasket that’s in the airflows path is a big step backwards?”
I think you’ve miss-read that. He said “gasket match the intake manifold” meaning open the ports to match the gasket both in the head & the manifold. This is a set backwards if you want to make more power out of a B as you’ll lose airspeed which is critical.
I guess you can take it as advice or not

Haha this thread is hilarious. Anyone who isn't on the Toda bandwagon is getting slagged on big time. I respect Toda_au and the results he is able to achieve using Toda components, but there are other, just as valid paths you can take to add power to your engine and the day Ozhonda doesn't recognise this will be very sad indeed.

It’s not so much for not being on a particular band wagon or not. It’s based on claims & can’t back it up with specifics. & in this case, the advice isn’t advice at all.
But I agree, there are other paths that can be taken. Some are less effective than other’s.
The path I recommend is a sure thing. That said, I can do it with a couple of different cam & or header combinations too. (Sure the output characteristic changes, but target is still met)
Most others can only offer a maybe…
When the cost ends up being similar, what would you rather?

[DC2-PWR]

holy shit

[TGW92]

holy shit

AHAHAHahHAhha Moiz I lol'd hard xD

Toda AU you always have massive posts, and they're always massively informative

[Slaz]

It’s not so much for not being on a particular band wagon or not. It’s based on claims & can’t back it up with specifics. & in this case, the advice isn’t advice at all.

Well said!

This is what I have a problem with, rubbish information with no back up just a warm feeling that due to reading so much on the net they know what works. That isnt helping, thats promoting another shite set-up with more often then not more spent in the end with a crap outcome.

I dont know about most people, but if I have no idea about something, I tend not to comment or suggest what others should do and then discredit those who do it for a living, but when I do offer advice, I should have the ability to back up my information or suggestions.

My 2 cents.

[Scholzey]

It's good having people know what they are talking about, have experience and who have done alot of r n d.

Let us know what you end up choosing and your results!

Oh, my setup was purely based on Internet research, it worked out well, didn't make numbers, only went 300whp and at Full weight ek 11.38@123 on pump fuel.. Oh tiny turbo too lol gt2871r.

Internet can be good if you don't rush, and make sure you choose parts for your needs, oh and also remember hp numbers from the USA always seem exaggerated. If you plan basing your numbers off of one of there setups.

Almost forgot, I hear most benefit of porting is in the valvejob and bowl area anyway, is that correct. Oh the gasket matching you are talking about seems rediculous lol.