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  1. #73
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    interesting discussion guys, thank god i did not stay up for it

    i agree with a few of the others that we forfeit this round in the tipping comp?

    Jase? your thoughts?

  2. #74
    So a lot of people think that the chicane needs to be put in so the michelin runners can run safely and get to the end of the race. If that happened, maybe Bahrain circuit needed some changing as well, so that Rubens tyres lasted till the end of the race and maybe get a podium. Or in Monaco so the two renaults wouldn't slow down everyone. I think it is just silly the circuit should be changed so they can run safely. Michelin was allowed to have the new tyres + penalties, but the new tyres also wasn't safe enough. They can change the tyres based on safety issues, but they want a chicane instead. They can go through the pit every time to avoid running on turn 13, but they want a chicane instead. Where is the fairness to the bridgestone runners if the chicane was put on? Like above maybe Monaco and Bahrain needed to be changed as well, so the tyres would last. As for someone saying Michelin haven't got the experience to bring suitable tyres... thats just utter bollocks. The event has been on for 6 years, and if they still don't have the experience to bring suitable tyres, then maybe we should have NANKANG instead of Michelin in F1.

    Another thing is, Stoddart is a complete TOOL. Read Minardi's Press Release and you'll think he's a TOOL too. He thinks that the US GP would have ran without problems if the solution (bring in the chicane) was approved. So he's blaming the FIA and Ferrari for not supporting the idea. How can FIA approve such a chicane when it is clearly in the interest of the Michelin runners? How fair of a solution would that be? And Stoddart should maybe consider having a team that actually have a chance in the world championship. He doesn't care about not racing the USGP because his car sucks anyway and he's most probably not going to score any points. In my view, whether relevant or not, the race totally sucked and it was bad for the sport. FIA did the right thing and not aprrove the chicane, Michelin should be kicked in the nuts over and over again for not racing when they could have, by either going through the pits every lap to avoid running turn 13, changing the tyres in pitstops which is allowed under safety considerations.

  3. #75
    sure everyone all over the world is saying ferrari had the rules to back up their decision, FIA was backed up by rules... etc etc etc.... but who really cares? im the grand scheme of things this cheated the fans who were there and spent considerable money on the entire holiday/GP weekend many took, and it cheated us poor people who got up early to watch...

    rules are rules, yes. but the grand picture is a responsibility to the fans. without the fans advertising will/would stop and then no more F1... extreme yes, but then wot good would the rules be?

    i just feel something could have been done to save the race, but nobody wanted to make concessions for the good of the sport.
    Last edited by [ slayer ]; 20-06-2005 at 05:54 PM.

  4. #76
    like said a thousand times before, its not a sport, its a business
    WDM. World Domestic Market.



    Subaru y0!

  5. #77
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    The way that I see it is that the only winner out of this entire thing is Tiago Monteiro .


    I think it is a little to simplistic to put the blame on just one party. No matter what would have happened there would have been an outcry. If the track was changed teams such as Ferrari who were ready to run would have been penalised (for something that was not in there control - tyres). As it stands now there is upset. I am not sure what the answer should have been.

    The people that I really feel for is the fans. Could you imagine travelling half way across the country, spending heaps of money on travel/accomodation/tickets to see that race?

    At the end of the day as others have mentioned it was really a question of is F1 a sport (in which case everyone should have run with a modified track) or a business? It will be interesting to see what happens with the F1 race in the US in the future.
    See a good post? Give it a PQ point.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludecrs View Post
    They have the depreciation re-sale value of a burnt out and multi-rolled Commodore.

  6. #78
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    Oh and another thing - related to Channel Tens coverage. What is with these guys? Melbourne takes prime to viewing. Over the GP weekend in OZ virtually nothing else is on. Then every other round is shown in the night (sometimes live). If they are building up such a big fan base, why not replay the race during normal hours!


    Signed someone sick and tired of being up to late
    See a good post? Give it a PQ point.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludecrs View Post
    They have the depreciation re-sale value of a burnt out and multi-rolled Commodore.

  7. #79
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    not really the racing part is a sport for the drivers, but the rest is business but f1 is getting really fukd up atm

  8. #80
    its always nice to have the race live or slightly delayed, rather than the next day. A replay of it would be good, but why would they do that when it wont make them anymore money?
    Michelin made a mistake, the teams suffered because of it. Done.
    WDM. World Domestic Market.



    Subaru y0!

  9. #81
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    [QUOTE=h17am]Michelin should be kicked in the nuts over and over again/QUOTE]

    Farkin beautiful!!!!

    I can't wait to see the qualifying for the French GP...how they organise that now seeing as though they were saying something about the order they went in to the pits is the order in which they will qualify....

    GO BRIDGESTONE....GO FERRARI

  10. #82
    Well, what can I say?
    Was it a F1 race? NO!
    It was a business deal gone wrong!

    If all the tippers can please PM me on if they want to make this round null and void, so everyone gets 0.

    Now, to the race.
    I taped it and watched it this afternoon, even though I was very upset I did still watch it for 1 main reason, to hear from the drivers!

    This was bad for F1.
    If you saw the race, you heard that Frank Williams held a Michelin only team meeting, its amazing how all the Michelin runners are the ones that want to have a seperate series!
    So the meeting would be great for them, why?
    Because these guys never get time to sit down and talk and actually have time to discuss major issues as well as agree on them!

    The whole "make a chicane" is ridiculous!
    You can't make a chicane with 30 min to a GP.
    The drivers could do it no worries, but why should Bridgestone runners be penalised?

    I have to agree with both FIA and Michelin on this, safety of drivers is number 1 in my books and the team bosses did do the right thing!
    BUT
    Rules are rules so, just like every driver they spoke to "no matter what you say, you'll be wrong"

    Anyone see Klien getting information on sms in his car?
    When they were on the grid.

    Then another solution was "go slower around the last 2 corners"
    You can't be serious can you?
    They are F1 drivers, cars are made to go flat out around corners, not to comprimise there speed for the tyres.

    I think the "Las Vages GP" is off the cards now, and Indy is in trouble after 2008.

    One tyre supplier HAS to be in order now, what happened is a joke for US FANS!
    Just let either Michelin or Bridgestone be the main supplier!

    On a positive note, at least Minardi and Jordan got a lot of TV coverage, which is good for there sponsors!

    Then Flabio came on the air and said, let us race with different tyres and gives us no points?
    Good idea?
    I think so, I still can't understand how the FIA mainly Charlie Brown didn't come up with a solution.

    As Paul Stoddard said, you need to fix the problems up and start from the top. Bye bye Max and Bernie, they are killing the sport.
    You saw Bernie at the start just yelling to Ron Dennis, Paul and Red Bull bloke "I DON'T CARE"

    The biggest thing that mad me angry was the american idiots throwing bottles on the track.
    That was the dumbest thing I've seen in F1 in my life.
    Even Neil Crompton said "Half of them have no idea"

    Then Michael squeezed Rubens out and made Rubens go on the grass and could of damaged his car and let a Jordan and/or Minardi get another podium.

    At least the championship is close and interesting now, not the best way but thats life.

    I hope this shakes the F1 tree and they get rid of these stupid rules and Bernie and Max both resign.

    I could go on and on, but I won't.

  11. #83
    After the shame of the day before, F1 woke on Monday to begin counting the cost of what is being described as 'the most catastrophic public relations disaster in the 56-year history of the official world championship.' Or, to put it another way, F1's darkest hour.

    The sight of 14 F1 cars pulling off the track at the end of the formation lap for the U.S GP and returning to the Indianapolis pits instead of racing is already being regarded as the death knell of the sport in the American market.

    'Simply stated, this race is done. Forget what the contract says about future events,' read the Indianapolis Star’s obituary.

    Tellingly, Speedway President Joie Chitwood immediately announced that the circuit held no commitment to invite F1 back in 2006.

    "We're as much a victim of what transpired today as the fans are," he said. "Mr. Ecclestone is aware of our position and our unhappiness today."

    Even Bernie, desperate to break the American market, admitted the sport's future on the other side of the Atlantic is bleak.

    "I'm furious at the stupidity of it all. There should have been a compromise but we could not get one. I tried a million things and thought that if we could get them on the grid we were halfway there. But it did not happen," he complained. "We were just starting to build a great image in America on TV and with the fans. All of that has gone out of the window."

    Such sombre realisation spread as far as the drivers.

    "I find it hard to put into words how damaging this is for F1. It throws into doubt the future of the race in US," admitted David Coulthard. "Even if we do come back, half the crowd in the stands won't."

    "It is a disaster for Formula One in the United States," added Nick Heidfeld.

    The first bills for F1's most shameful episode are expected to be issued in the next few hours.

    'Sponsors will be lining up to claim millions in compensation from the teams that did not run, while Bernie Ecclestone, the sport's ringmaster, could also be liable to pay huge compensation,' reported The Times.

    The scene of this shameful debacle, dare F1 forget, was the most ligitous nation on the planet.

    Although there was no immediate announcement that refunds would or would not be issued, on Sunday night a notice on the front door of the Speedway's administration building indicated more information about refunds would be available on Monday.

    With Bernie conceding "they've been cheated", F1 will be under huge pressure, both moral and legal, to issue full refunds to all the Indy spectators on Sunday.

    Michelin, however, are likely to bear the immediate brunt of F1's shame.

    The FIA are expected to charge the French tyre manufacturers, whose admission that their rubber was unsafe to use at Indy precipitated Sunday's shambles, with bringing the sport into disrepute this week.

    The withering response of Charlie Whiting, the FIA's race director, to Michelin’s request for a chicane to be introduced, in which he scorned their failure to supply "correct tyres", is likely to be a mere taster of the FIA's response.

    'We are very surprised that this difficulty has arisen,' he continued. 'As you know, each team is allowed to bring two different types of tyre to an event so as to ensure that a back-up (usually of lower performance) is available should problems occur. It is hard to understand why you have not supplied your teams with such a tyre given your years of experience at Indianapolis.

    'That the teams you supply are not in possession of such a tyre will also be a matter for the FIA to consider in due course under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.'

    Under the terms of Article 151C, penalties can be applied for "any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to any competition or to the sport in general".

    Michelin's apparent incompetence could not be worst timed, coming just days after the FIA published proposals to limit tyre supply to just one organisation for 2008 and beyond.

    Moreover, 'Michelin's failure to supply its teams with safe and durable tyres less than two weeks after it was warned by the FIA not to sacrifice safety for performance [after Kimi Raikkonen's tyre failure at the Nurburgring] could force the French tyre company's withdrawal from the sport,' noted The Guardian.

    However, in mitigation, Michelin publicly announced their mistake nearly 48 hours before the grand prix began.

    That the sport could then not reach a compromise for the sake of its reputation and image damns those far beyond the confines of Michelin.

    "The bottom line is Michelin made a mistake. But after that the FIA had it in their hands to find a solution and ensure we all raced out there. The most important people, the fans, have been forgotten in all of this," noted Coulthard.

    Jacques Villeneuve, meanwhile, blamed Ferrari for their failure to agree to the introduction of a chicane: “We could have raced with a chicane, if a chicane had been put before the banking, but Ferrari didn't accept."

    Michael Schumacher's comment, "I don't know what Michelin's problem is, but this wasn't our problem," spoke volumes about Ferrari's intransigence ahead of F1's race of shame.

    F1's blame game is set to explode in the coming days but the damage has already been done. On Sunday this was a sport that imploded.

    The cost, which will perhaps never be fully appreciated, will be borne by all those shamed by their association to this reprehensible debacle.

  12. #84
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    the US crowd got ripped off.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChargeR
    Ozhonda mods don't sleep, they wait.

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