Standard Unleaded in Euro

[Mr_will]

Guys lets calm down and be constuctive with something to backup our facts........thats all that yfin is trying to say.

Now from what I have read (on this forum and off), engines with knock sensors can only retards timing to avoid detonation (by running ULP <95 RON). However they cannot 'detect' better fuel and increase performance without 3rd party intervention (ie ecu remap or ignition timing advance).

Thats not really true, not.
The example I used was in LS1 holdens, particularly monaros. The ecu can detect the fuel type and allows slightly higher power output when 98 octane is used. The euro ecu however, cannot do this

[yfin]

Thats not really true, not.
The example I used was in LS1 holdens, particularly monaros. The ecu can detect the fuel type and allows slightly higher power output when 98 octane is used. The euro ecu however, cannot do this

In simple terms though - you appear to be saying a Euro on 98 ron (is less "efficient") and therefore it produces LESS power than the Euro on 95 ron.

Perhaps you should confirm this is your point of view. Wyn is saying it will not necessarily produce more power - however - my reading of what you are saying it will produce less power.

[PERTH_EURO]

wa has run out of ultimate98 apparently.
Im bush yorum... can you confirm?

[as001]

I guess the only to prove the debate about the euro on 98 ron v 95 ron is is dyno a stock euro on 98 ron then on 95 ron but who the hell can be assed doing that?! Im been running my euro on 98 since day one however i will give 95 ago at my next fuel refill if there is a difference

[eurotrash]

Hey timbo - you r correct - the BP pulp refinery had some issues a couple of weeks back & supplies are running very low -some servo's have run out..

The news reader bimbo - " motorists will just have to do with regular unleaded for the time being" -I DONT THINK SO

Is the BP refinery the ONLY one in WA producing PULP?

[Mr_will]

In simple terms though - you appear to be saying a Euro on 98 ron (is less "efficient") and therefore it produces LESS power than the Euro on 95 ron.

Perhaps you should confirm this is your point of view. Wyn is saying it will not necessarily produce more power - however - my reading of what you are saying it will produce less power.

yes, running 98 octane when your recommended fuel is 95 (even if it was 95 minimum) will result in a decrease in power. As a result you'll most likely be revving higher, and thus using more fuel.

You also won't be able to get conclusive evidence from a dyno.

The two sets of results will be closer than the mean tolerance in a dyno run so any results you get will be void....

Where you gain/lose power will depend exactally on how the timing map is setup standard. If at one point the map is more advanced than MBTT (incredibly unlikely but i'll humour you) then you will see a HIGHER power. But for the rest part, you will see a lower power level everywhere.

[wynode]

Can you confirm this somehow Mr_Will?

[Mr_will]

Can you confirm this somehow Mr_Will?

maybe try googling efi and ecu's

i cant really provide a better explanation than i have in relation to timing and such.

id bet $100 on it though.

[wynode]

No offence Mr_Will but I don't see why we have to find the evidence for YOUR claim?

[Mr_will]

No offence Mr_Will but I don't see why we have to find the evidence for YOUR claim?

well no offence to you mate, and i mean that seriously, but its a a pretty basic claim in terms of ignition/timing operations, so maybe researching this some more would be worthwhile for you. at the end of the day, i understand it because i know how it all works

[yfin]

Mr_Will

Putting aside what you say about dyno comparisons (which is fair enough)- you are the first person I have heard say 98 ron will produce less power than 95 ron in a car rated as 95 min

I have definately heard people say (like Wyn) it may be no better unless you get an ECU remap, etc - but saying it will produce LESS power on the stock ECU tune - is news to me.

Eg - look at this article - my understanding is the MY99 WRX was tuned for 95 ron just like the Euro. Accepting what you say about dyno comparisons - it didn't show less power. Same with the Audi S2 in the breakout article.

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=0429

Now maybe we are all wrong - but perhaps you should explain more than just say we should do some research on "ECUs, and EFI".

Maybe I should get my Euro dynoed 5 times with 95 ron (to minimise the dyno variances) and then 5 times with 98 ron. Average out all the numbers, etc.

If the 98 ron averages lower than the 95 ron - you pay for all the dynos and pay me $100. If the 95 ron averages higher than the 98 ron - i pay for the dynos and give you $100. Still willing to bet the $100?

[Mr_will]

Putting aside what you say about dyno comparisons (which is fair enough)- you are the first person I have heard say 98 ron will produce less power than 95 ron in a car rated as 95 minI

I have definately heard people say (like Wyn) it may be no better unless you get an ECU remap, etc - but saying it will produce LESS power on the stock ECU tune - is news to me.

Eg - look at this article - my understanding is the MY99 WRX was tuned for 95 ron just like the Euro. Accepting what you say about dyno comparisons - it didn't show less power.

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=0429

Yeah the important bit in that article wasnt stated particularly clearly "Knock sensors allow the ECU to retard the timing to just before the knocking occurs. This effectively optimises the combustion process, maximising the output of the engine."

However we are dealing with two very different things - knock sensors are designed to work occasionally under extreme conditions, whereas an ecu that can alter timing to suit different RON fuels is designed for everyday driving - my point being that knock sensors are not a substitue for the better ecu.

the relevance of that test to this argument would most certainly hinge on whether the wrx ecu is of the type that can advance ignition timing, and I am fairly certain that it is.

i have put considerable research time into this and my arguments are in fact based on the fundamental operations of the engine, so id be very interested to see a more specific test that would prove me wrong