TODA Cams VS CTR Cams VS SIR-2 Cams

[[[d a n n y]]]

ok boyz and galz..

i have a simple question

as i am still learning about this engine stuff..

on a b16a would a ctr cam will work better or a toda cam specificly B spec will work better i want mild upgrade on the power..

and is it worth while to spend the extra cash to get toda b spec ? or ctr will do?

and secondly if i upgrade the engine to CTR spec cams pistons rings and so on..etc will i see a margnal power gain
is it more efficient than spoon or mugen or toda parts?


is the CTR cam much different to the SIR-2 cam?

thanks for the help..

[eknine]

you want a mild cam then go for Toda A

mate, if you are changing everything, why don't just get an engine better...like a b18c...enjoy ur ride for now and go cams + cams gears if you want to

i'm sure Toda OZ->Adrian will be glad to help out if u are keen in buying<laffz>

[McChook]

Toda B's for sure mate.
Toda A's are the first spec above ITR
I thought CTR cams were slightly upspec from ITR, but almost equal to Toda A.
I thought SiR II cams were simillar to ITR cams... not 100% on that

But, remember, you have to change valves springs for Toda B's and C's. I recomemend Iskandarian (Isky) valves springs. They released them last week, $120 a set.... I believe the toda springs are more expensive, but Isky's are the shiznit - We ususually use Mugen Valve springs, but not cheap, so Isky's are the next best.

I am sure Adrian can be more specific, there is only so much you can get off the net

And B18's are not "better".. what a stupid thing to say to a man who has spent - a long time - waiting for his car to be finished.... inconsiderate p

[wynode]

CTR intake cams are more aggresive and have a longer duration than the ITR intake cam. Exhaust cams are the same.

But I agree with eknine. Danny, I suggest you wait till your car is ready and drive it a bit before choosing to upgrade it. Upgrading to CTR spec isn't a simple job. You have to strip the engine and swap out the pistons. A lot of $$$ if you're not doing it yourself!

But if you wanted more power in the first place, then you definitely should have gone for the b18c.

[[[d a n n y]]]

hm...nah..i will stay with the b16a..

b18c7 a mayb but i wanna run with the b16a

so yeah...

which cams r better option of the money?

[BLKCRX]

why gets Toda B... just get Toda C's !!! Toda are by far the best cams you can get !!! hands down. You just need to tune your car to take full advantage of them.. and yeah b's and C's both require spring changes so why not go for C's ;-)

Plus if you look at all the data C's make more power ova b's and a's EVEYWHERE !!

Spend the extra money and buy Toda Cam's !!! there totaly worth it TODA ROCKS !! after all TODA USA have the fastest NA car in the world !!

Regards James

[[[d a n n y]]]

i dont want full on i want a mild drivable fast car..

not a full on race car..

my car will be a daily driven car..

[DarkCoupe]

yeah man not everyone wants to spend tens of thousands of dollers on mods ...

some are just happy with some mild mods for a little upgrade in the power ...

[hondar]

danny.

you need to define what is "mild driveable fast car".

The word "mild" is subjective. To each his own perception.

it is better to put in a number. What is your desired goal? If you know your goal in terms on what you want to achiece, then you can look for parts to achieve that.

And no one in this world has all the money to spend it at one go. Most of us and yes even myself, save up bit by bit to buy stuffs we want. Thats why if we know the goal, you wont be buying unnecassary things.

A lot of people will tell you buy XXX brand or buy YYY brand. At the end of the day you must decide yourself.

For a start, i will provide with this info.

Stock Integra Vtir/gsr cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 10.6mm, duration is 230 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 9.mm, duration is 227 degree @ 1mm

ITR cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 11.5mm, duration is 240 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 10.5mm, duration is 235 degree @ 1mm

CTR cams (made of chilled cast core)
Intake lift - 11.5mm, duration is 243 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 10.5mm, duration is 235 degree @ 1mm

Toda A cams
Intake lift - 11.6mm, duration is 250 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 11.2mm, duration is 240 degree @ 1mm

Toda B cams
Intake lift - 12mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 12mm, duration is 245 degree @ 1mm

Toda C cams
Intake lift - 12.5mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 12.5mm, duration is 255 degree @ 1mm

Spoon cams
Intake lift - 11.54mm, duration is 256 degree @ 1mm
Exhaust lift - 11.13mm, duration is 245 degree @ 1mm

FYI,

Lift: Lift is the height that the valve is lifted off of the valve seat.

Duration: Duration is the number of degrees of crank rotation that the valve is help open by the cam. One full cycle is 720 degree or two complete rotation of the CRANK.

Also you need to have the right COMPRESSION for each of the cams used.

To quote:
When you upgrade cams you should do 4 things:

1. change to the valvesprings that were proven not to coil bind at the cam's max. lift on a Spintron test but not go overly stiff to create excessively high valve seat pressures (stock 40 lb., Toda valvesprings 50 lb., max. acceptable range is 70-90 lb. at 33.66 mm installed valvespring height) causing wear.

if you don't upgrade the valvesprings, even though the company says it's ok to use the stock ones, you still will see mild valve float. Mild valve float is not catastrophic compared to severe valve float or coil binding.

But you know what valve float is right?
The spring has fatigued at high rpm and loses it's ability to control the rate at which the valve closes against the seat. The valveface slams shut against the seat and transfers this shock or load up the valve stem to the rocker arm and then to the camshaft lobe-rocker arm interface. You get extra wear-related damage and possibly structural fatigue at the valve seat, valveface, rocker arm lobe, valvespring retainer, and cam lobe. Valve float can be identified on a chassis dynosheet as a sudden very sharp or steep drop in hp (in the order of 5% [7-10 whp] or more) at the last 500-600 rpm before the redline.

2. ensure that valvespring installed height is stock (1.320-1.325 in. or 33.53-33.66 mm) and check that the lost motion devices (for VTEC cams) are all present.

3. use assembly lube on the cams during install and do the proper oil change maintenance schedule.

4. Ensure the install is at TDC throughout including the timing belt install. Use a new timing belt or a stronger aftermarket belt, if the mileage (every 40-60,000 miles) or camshaft/application (Toda Spec B,C,D, Killer, or Jun Type 3, or race engine) warrants it. If you can, have the cams degreed. Ensure that the valve lash was set to the camshaft manufacturer's specs, the cam gears & cam journals were oriented and torqued down correctly using Honda's or the manufacturer's specs, and the timing belt is tensioned correctly (no flapping).

Even though you are asking people or mechanic to do it for you, it is good that you know all this stuffs. POINT 2 is important when you choose valve springs.

I will stop here and let you digest the knowledge, we will go from here if anything is unclear to you.

hondar

[[[d a n n y]]]

mate this guy is a pro thanks mate..i will question any unsure points

[hondar]

no worries,

dont worry about asking anything, no one learn anyhting by keeping quite. we start somewhere and is a hardwork i know. keep exploring and thats half the fun as well. knowing what you are doing and not doing becos everybody else says so.

hondar

[[[d a n n y]]]

well my goal is this

with my current sir-2 motor i wanna increse 20kw or so more atw figure..

includeing ecu and tuning..

what way's do u think i should take?