How much power should i get?

[Paul_Dc5]

Hi my name is paul

Just like to know if i had dC5, Hondata K100ECU,exhaust system,Mugen airbox, Toda Spec A2 cams, valve springs,head gasket and a X-force heads. How much power should i be get out of it, cos rite now im only gettin 132kw@wheels at APC Dyno does that sound rite to u.Im not happy with it at all, i ask James from Hondata if that was the max power that he can get out of it n he said yes that is the max power that he can get out of it. And here the funny thing about it my friend has a Dc5 with Hondata K100ECU,exhaust system and Intake, which is only road tuning and has 131@wheels and when i race him he kicks my ass Around 2m lolol and dont tell me its the drive too cos when i drive his car and he got in to my car this time it won by 4m to 5m
James told me that i would get around 140 to 150kws@wheels When I was askin him about Toda he told me that it was all that so tell me what went wrong than JAMES

One last thing on the day at i went to get the car i ask him Y i only got 132 and my friend got 131kws he told me that it was a diff time diff day my friend was ask about that too n u know what he had to say to him "TELL me How much he wins u by when u race Paul" lolol Yer rite funny one
the day after i race him we went to get a Dyno at the same place same time i got 127 he got 124kws@wheels


I be put up the Dyno up soon so u can see it for urself

I like to know what u have to say about this

[bennjamin]

without getting technical at all .... the end result is mroe than JUST a "peak kw/hp" numerical value btw.

[VTEC16]

this thread will probably get locked. But James and hondata have an awesome record on this forum, so i guess this probably wont change most ppl's minds.

You and your friend have quite similar mods. You might find that while your car only makes a little more peak power, it has more area under the power curve.

Dyno's give different results in different conditions - thats not just a line spun by james.

Also - different engines make different power. maybe your mate has a better engine from the factory then you. that may be a fact.

play nice.

[JINRAI]

thats quite alot done to the internals and the numbers isnt too impressive...hows the car running overall? how much did u dump into all that? plus tuning, etc.

[X8TEENX]

bit curious about your exhaust system..maybe will get different result for it

[SAWAKITA]

Hondata K100ECU,exhaust system and Intake make 131@wheels sound right to me, because I made approx 117kw@wheel with just a fujutsubo powergetter cat back on my Type S.

With all your mods 132kw@wheel don't sound right.
Have you try different tuner?

[Paul_Dc5]

The car was runnin at 124.5kws@wheels i was so happy with it
so i put out $4300 i only got 3kws more from it, i went bck to the same Dyno at 8:30am n made 127kws and the 124.5kws was at 2pm.I ask some poeple about it n they told me that cams, valve springs,head gasket r no good at all u only have them if u rebuild ur hold Eng to a 2.4Eng so is this ture ?



X8TEENX :well this is what i'm about to do now to use the parts of my friend car n put it on my n see how much diff it makes i find out by Friday

VTEC16 :like i said we went on the same Dyno same day same time after james give as the car back, dont get me wrong i thnk james is one of the best there is but just not with my car that all.he told me on that day that he needs the car like around 9am cos he was goin bck down melb at 8pm that nite so i told him that the car wont be done till 2pm-3pm. i ask if he has the time to do the job rite he said he has to see, i give him the car at 2:45pm
he call me at 5:50 n told me it was done.i did tell him dont worry if u cant do it i wait till next time when u come up just map it for me for now. So do u think he did it rite or not

[Paul_Dc5]

Hondata K100ECU,exhaust system and Intake make 131@wheels sound right to me, because I made approx 117kw@wheel with just a fujutsubo powergetter cat back on my Type S.

With all your mods 132kw@wheel don't sound right.
Have you try different tuner?

im changin the heads than gettin a diff tuner
well for APC Dyno its always higher too
i got a friend with Dc5 with only Ecu,exhaust system, Intake and heads making 139kws@wheels but if it was at Apc it be around 149-153 around there i put his Dyno up to so u dont think im bs

[Paul_Dc5]

this thread will probably get locked. But James and hondata have an awesome record on this forum, so i guess this probably wont change most ppl's minds.

You and your friend have quite similar mods. You might find that while your car only makes a little more peak power, it has more area under the power curve.

Dyno's give different results in different conditions - thats not just a line spun by james.

Also - different engines make different power. maybe your mate has a better engine from the factory then you. that may be a fact.

play nice.

My mates car is a very suck car mate so much things has gone wrong with that car its not funny at all like i said i like james i think he is one of the best but he didnt do a good job with my car that all
when i put the Dyno up u will see what im talkin about.

[fried]

im still trying to make sense of ur english. sorry.

can u start by LISTING your mods in POINT FORM; and then LISTING the mods on ur friends car in POINT FORM. just to compare. (include any information relevant, such as tyres, wheel size, suspension mods, ICE, car model, transmission.. etc)

[DOSHBTEK]

hrmmm sounds like you have a dodgy car... hehe

[BLKCRX]

Hey Paul, let me see if I can re answer some of your questions in writing.
Firstly comparing any to cars, on a dyno is something that’s very difficult to do and the only way to really tell is to do what you have already done and go out and race. Fact is proven is your car is slower, even thow it has more peak power. This can also be more than likely proven by over lapping dyno graphs of the to cars and seeing the difference, I bet the power under the curve tells a very different story, in fact I bet your friends car makes more power under the curve ? WHY .. well read below.

If I remember though your to cars are most certainly different.

Your car has the following key modifications.
X force Extractors (Craper than stock)
Mugen intake (same as stock with restrictor)
Toda cams A2
Hondata K100

Your friends car has the following key modifications
Stock Headers (better than x force )
Injen Cold air intake (Better than stock )
Hondata K100

Now comes the interesting part like iv told you in person.

Fact Mugen intakes are NO better than the stock intake with the restrictor. Centrax Auto proved this at APC more than 2 years ago, having the car on the dyno with the stock intake, then installing the mugen intake produced ZERO increase in power. I believe nick from APC even told me they re put on the stock intake again just to double check. Fact is this intake is no better than stock, with dyno proven results.

Fact when you remove the Stock restrictor you get around 18HP increase in power everywhere, this is also dyno proven with results.

Fact the injen CAI works 1 – 3HP better than modifying the stock air box. Dyno Proven.

Fact the injen style CAI is one of the best intake setups available for DC5 r
Now when you compare the to cars you have one car with a very nice intake (injen) that breaths very nicely, and then you have your intake mugen which is proven to be no better than stock which doesn’t breath nicely) so all a sudden your car most certainly isn’t getting the air it requires.

Now lets look at your exhaust, X force extractors vs Stock.

Now I remember telling you time and time again that Toda Extractors are by far the best there is out there, period. I told you its Toda headers or nothing at all, and yes again this is a classic example of how carp x force headers are, in your case you would have been much better to leave the standard headers on. The standard headers are nice 4-2-1 headers, where the xforce are a 4-1 header which merger the exhaust ports worst than iv ever see any headers do. Just because you replace some parts with a aftermarket part it doesn’t mean its going to be any better than stock. Sometimes it is worse !!

In fact the last time I talked to you before coming up to Brisbane you said you had stock headers, then when I saw your car in person all a sudden there were x force headers on it ! trust me this is a mistake, sell them and buy Toda Headers. we have car's all over Australia making more power on stock headers with Toda Cams.

So to summaries up all the information above, all a sudden you have a engine with Toda A2 cam’s that MUST have lots of air to work, and must have a nice exhaust system to work. Power of any NA car is found in the intake and Exhaust setup. And with your car you have changed these things to in fact a setup which is worst than stock ! how can the cam’s work if there not in the correct environment ?

These Toda cam’s are dyno proven and they do work, although if the combination is not correct than most certainly how can they work to there full effect.

The cam’s produce a very linear power cruise in-fact your dyno graph is just one straight line, the more you rev the more power you make all the way to 9000rpm, its just the combination of your current modifications have let you down.

By all means try another tuner, but do what I recommend, sell your over priced mugen intake, and replace it with a intake that works, sell your x force headers and put on a set of Toda headers, and re tune your car. Or if you must put the stock headers back on, which will flow much better than x force headers.

That said, engine health can also make a very big difference in power out put of any engine, but I truly don’t believe it’s the issue here, it’s a parts combination which is the problem.

Remember the previous owner of your car already had hondata installed and tuned and I was able to use this as a starting point for your car. This is much quicker as you don’t need to set the car up, configure all the sensors, cold starts, idles, open loop / close loop operations and the list of configurable things goes on and on. Your car is most certainly producing maximum power for the modifications that you have, tuning can not MAKE magically power, max power is what ever it is once the car is tuned. And yes I agree with you the car should be making more power, but when you consider the key mistakes in your modification choice of parts it makes it very easy to see why the car is’s responding well to the cams.

Let the engine breath !! give it some Toda headers, and a nice intake and re tune your car for the NEW correct modifications watch your car turn into a animal !

Hope that helps explain a few things like I told you over the phone, if you have any further questions feel free to call me my phone is always on, or post here.

Regards James