Stock Honda + boost = damaged engine

[poid]

hey poid. Im not having a go at ya at all, its just that u shouldnt believe what anyone else says unless they have done it.

I totally agree, and that's why i have spent hours scouring US boards and have read plenty of "i destroyed my ringlands" or "my cylinder walls didnt hold up" stories from H22A owners. Hence i would be wary running anything over about 8-9psi unless i was absolutely sure on the condition of the engine and was 100% sure the tuner would do the job for me.

It dpesnt mean that every engine will blow its ringlands of course, but it has been identified as a weakness. Of course, you have to keep in mind the whole setup of each person that has done it and the tuning of setups seems to be where we here have an advantage, because we dont do things by half measures (ie VAFC "hacks" or check valves).

Fair enough you never know until you try, but you also have to bear in mind the experiences of others as it can save you a lot of pain, and also money.

Anyway these are all things to consider...its all up to the individual as to how far they wanna push the limits (and how deep their wallet is if something does let go)

[wynode]

Not jumping on any bandwagon here, but i've read up a bit on turbo H22a's and one of the first things that people have done when going above 8psi is to resleave the cylinders, as they are meant to be one of the weakenesses in a forced H22a setup.

-my 2cents

[A.C.S DRAG]

always remember to replace your oil cap after topping up with oil.

[vti-2]

always remember to replace your oil cap after topping up with oil.

:lol:

[pornstar]

I say dont respeak hearsay because the reason for this is that theres alot of differences. Ill try and explain some of them, the main factor that you might want to consider is that the US people use an Adjustable Fuel pressure Regulator which is boost dependant. As you can tell, its not a very good management tool, and they use these methods regularly to manage the turbo system, you might want to think about why they blow stuff. That and the fact that they push alot of psi daily with these sorts of setups.

Yes it does pay to listen, but it doesnt pay to listen to people who dont know what they are doing, or to people who are skimping. Wynode, the reason why they resleave is that the first thing u change in any turbo setup for reliability is forged pistons and rods, the h22a uses a composite material on its cylinder sleeves, which cannt be used with forged rods, therefore sleeving is a must when changing out pistons and rods.

Anyway, if I seem to be having a go at ya, im not poid. Just dont like letting myths on other boards jump to this one, especially when its so pure

[poweredbyhonda]

I agree with both Poid and Pornstar. Sometimes you can't really beleive all the info you hear but there are some really good articels and forums out there which really know what they are tallking about.
Make sure you use that damn oil cap!
Im no good with H22a's so I can't back up Pornstar. He has done his research and has had a H22a turbo.
For really good info on Integras try http://team-integra.net for on of the best info forums and articles on B18's straight from the US.

[poid]

I know you're not having a go, discussions like these are what good boards are made up of

You are 100% correct about the H22A sleeves, the material they are made from does not work well with forgies and hence resleeving is a must. However there are people running stock sleeves and forgies and reliably...though of course that wont last. The reason they change to forgies though is to do with concerns about the ringlands, unlike say a B series where people run 300+hp on stock block (admittedly with decent tuning most of the time).

Yes the FMU setups they use are junk...thats one thing i mentioned in my last post, the setups they use vary. They are fine while the FMU works properly as they run the engine so rich it cant detonate without something going wrong. Though what often happens is the FMU itself fails and BANG! Thank god this is one aspect we are managing to avoid here!

[pornstar]

you do realise that the fuel grade that they use to get those numbers right? Just clarifying because theres no way, and Ill bet my sweet right butt cheek on this, that a stock b18c will make 300whp in australia, without race gas, pushing the motor to breaking point, and changing the way that we calculate horespower v the US horsepower.

Alot of people dont realise that the people who tune in the US getting big numbers are running thicker gaskets, race gas, and pushing their motor to breakpoint. also their measure of hp is alot higher than ours, and the dynos that they use grade hp alot higher to ours.

BLKCRX has been alittle quiet on this board, but if you ask him, he will tell you alot of the differences. James car making something along the lines of about 280kws at the wheels right now, if u take the conversion rate thats about 350whp, yet in the US, they claim to get 300whp from just a bolt on kit@8psi. Yet James' car is farkn fast, and his trap speeds equal those of 10 sec street cars in the US...

Just trying to keep info as clean as possible. Cheers

[poid]

yeh their dyno's are slightly optimistic as well, but i'm trying to compare like with like. I've seen plenty of 300whp claims without race gas and have never seen such a claim from a H22A stock block (the H22A destroys the B series in torque however!). They do usually claim to be running 12psi+ when they make 300hp claims though (i dont think i would believe 300hp and 8psi claims, unless they are using stupidly large turbines and have altered the rev limit and are hoping it wont blow).

The street fuel they have is crappy octane also in many states, granted they will use premium but its usually only about 95RON as far as i know. So unless they are using race gas, as you said, fuel isnt a major concern as it is with, say, Japanese fuels.

But yeh, US hp is not what we would get...i'm comparing US hp numbers though not US to aussie.

[poweredbyhonda]

Goes to show how easier it is to do a boost setup on a B18C. No sleeves required, just a block guard itself should be able to support 15psi (roughly over 200 fwkw with the exception of rods & pistons that is). Another thing they have in common is the stock pistons which also have a very weak point on the ring lands. This information i got off John G form JG in the US. He said the pistons are safe up until 8psi and then after that the ring lands tend to let go. What he said was true indeed! My car was tuned on 9 psi from Hyper tech (these guys do not know what they are doing!). Bought it to Technik Tuning for a retune. Blowed smoke, piston ring gone! You can guess why. Now I am up for a full set of forgies.

[BLKCRX]

Hey guys just to add, been watching this thred over the last few days, hmm some funny fake lies have been said.. what a laugh.

Anyway 3psi or more on any Honda engine will blow almost all Stock Honda engines regardless of tuning, FMU devices or what not, used along with the stock engine, and why because the Honda engine isn’t designed for boost, and what kills any Honda engine on 3psi or more psi ? The DRIVER !!! and the way he / she drives the car.

Staying in boost in 5th gear, boosting when the engine is cold boosting for long periods, anything more than a squirts here and there will more than likely kill your engine in time, and what will blow, well always the weakest link, but that is again dependent on the way the car is driven at the time.


Yes you can run many Honda engines 12 15psi+ totally stock on the dyno in a controlled environment, hell you can even race down the 1/4, as even ¼ racing ist that much more stressful on the engine than dynoing, but once you start driving a car hard on the street this is where the problems are and where anything can fail very quickly.

Now has for fuels all this 90RON 95RON etc means bugger all, simple fact is the US use different ratings for there fuel than us, you can not compare apples with oranges.

USA’s basic fuel so called 89RON is much much better than our optimax and s8000 fuels, sadly we live in a very tightly controlled EPA regulated country.

On another note most people in the USA have access to 115RON fuel from the pump, which is better than our best racing fuels !! even there racing gas is a much better grade than ours, so you just can’t compare, hell even there race tracks are prepared differently helping cars go faster with less power there just isn’t any international standard so don’t believe there is. Learn from what works or doesn’t work by research from over sea’s yes, but as for comparing data numbers results etc it just can not be done.

The same goes for dyno’s as mentioned above in pornstars post, again no international standard has ever been set, this causes even problems within our own states comparing dyno results from different workshops, is one dyno shop a better tuner because there dyno reads higher ? sadly most people think oh wow that workshop tuned 20more KW out of my car there the best, when in fact they didn’t make that power, its just data miss interrupted. Yes some workshops can tune better than others, yes some give you much better throttle response, but at the end of the day all a dyno will do is give you a correct air fuel ratio, somewhere around optimal lambda 0.88 will give you the most power when in boost, although even this figure changes according to dyno o2 sensors fuel’s and engines. The other thing dynos can be used for is ignition tuning, advancing / retarding ignition where required, these are the only 2 things dyno’s are good for, power output is just a magically generated number. Again both airfuel and ignition tuning can only be as good as the equipment used, the detailed in which its tuned and the tuner, then you have the factor of the driver and how the car is driven.




Anyway that’s enough info ! eheh for now…… hope the above information helps…

Regards James

[pornstar]

nope the above info is useless! please refrain from posting useless info james haha

but yeah, i agree, theres no way u can learn from overseas experience just because there is too many variables. The thing is the best way to compare things i probably the Terminal speeds at the track. I looked at James terminal velocity, and compare those to 10s cars over there!

hope it all helps